DIY tuning
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You are currently reading a thread in /o/ - Auto
You are currently reading a thread in /o/ - Auto
how do these little tuners work? The way i understand it is you upload a "map" to the ecu that changes the internal lookup tables to make the engine behave a certain way. my question is mostly in relation to bolt on mods. how does the little tuner know what mods my car has? if i put a catless downpipe in my car, i'd need a new map, right? is there some database that has a ton of possible combinations of parts your car might have?
for example, could i just go online and download a "ecoboost mustang with upgraded intercooler and catless downpipe" map? are they user created?
or do these things really only work for nonmodified cars? or are they good enough that they can somehow tell what your car has modified?
>>14090167
I suppose modern ecus could figure what mods you've got, computers are that advanced now.
Doubt it works like that though unless the people who make these tuners are the same people who make the ecu.
Probably the usual staged deal
>>14090167
>how does the little tuner know what mods my car has?
It doesn't.
>if i put a catless downpipe in my car, i'd need a new map, right?
Most cases, no. But it depends on what turbo you're running.
>is there some database that has a ton of possible combinations of parts your car might have?
Not that i've heard of.
>for example, could i just go online and download a "ecoboost mustang with upgraded intercooler and catless downpipe" map? are they user created?
No, they usually just map stock cars. Sometimes they'll make things called "stage 1,2,3" and each one has a kit that you bolt on, sometimes they'll request that you send in your stock ECU so they can add the map that goes along with the mods in the bolt on kit.
Get an E-tune from Adam at Tune+.
did you delete your O2 sensor after the cat?
>>14090210
car is currently stock, am setting aside around $2k for mods but want a coherent plan before i start
>>14090167
You could, but the AFRs/timing might still not be quite right. If you had a wideband you could make sure it's not leaning out the mixture, but you might be leaving power on the table that a proper tune would get.
For Subarus the maps come in stages, with Stage 1 being just a upgrade of the stock map with no mods, and Stage 2 being a downpipe and exhaust, with a map that takes advantage of these mods. If you look at the maps available on the Cobb website, you can see what mods you need to use for each map. You can also pay someone to make a map specifically for you, based on which mods you have installed on your car. In some cases you'll also be able to find free maps that work with your mod setup, but they'll only be available if someone has already made one for that specific setup.
>>14090224
http://adamtuned.myshopify.com/collections/2015-ecoboost
>>14090224
well if the ECU senses no O2 sensor it will run like shit, and if you put a dummy sensor in there it will react normally. so, there's really no way for the tuner to be affected by your catless exhaust, which is still illegal
>>14090167
A lot of manufacturers of aftermarket parts have downloads for "off the shelf" maps to get you started. Exhaust changes don't really require tune changes, but things like intake size will definitely require MAF calibrations.The OTS tunes that you get from the vendors are generally not able to be editted and are usually shit and run super rich, but they can atleast get the car running to get logs and tune it properly. If you aren't comfortable learning how to tune yourself or don't have the resources to an e-tuner is usually a great way to go. Seriously, a real tune on your car will make a huge difference. I tuned my car with the help of a guy from my forums and I'm sure you could do the same. Plus, the Accessport itself is great for troubleshooting. You can watch AFRs and all kinds of shit to see why your car is having problems. You can also view and clear check engine lights which is awesome too.
>>14090276
Why would you delete the 2nd O2 sensor? You can disable the CEL for the catalyst failure and still be fine. Deleting the 2nd O2 sensor will just give you 2 CELs instead of 1 for the missing cat.
what OS do cars have?
>>14090351
people do it all the time, don't ask me
>>14090167
What kind of car do you drive? This would help with getting a decent plan down. Basically most cars benefit from the same boltons though. Intake, full exhaust, intercooler, and a good tune will make a huge difference. Each car has their own little qwerks that you'll have to work around (Mazdas have a fuel pump that needs to be upgraded before exhaust components increase flow too much and it can't keep pressure high enough for example). $2000 will get you all of your boltons and a good tune. E85 was the biggest gain for my car, but the fuel economy went right to shit when that happened.
>>14090402
2015 ecoboost mustang. planning to get a mishimoto intercooler kit for around ~$800, downpipe for $300, tuner for around $500, and then either an upgraded BPV or a CAI depending on forum feedback. im really not convinced that a CAI will benefit me at all over a simple high-flow air filter.
>>14090499
You won't feel the difference from any of that stuff, it's a waste of money. Get some taller rear end gears and good tires if you actually want a difference you can feel
>>14090199
Please please get out and stop spreading this.
>>14090499
Please consult an actual forum, they can give you a clear modding path.
>>14090552
Taller? Wouldnt you want shorter?
>>14090552
Are you retarded? A tune and a downpipe are the first few mods you add on a turbo vehicle.
>>14090552
>he wont feel a difference from a tune
u wot
>>14090208
>>14090254
Quit trying to shill some shitty internet tuning faggot. OP, get a dyno tune.
>>14090583
Yeah I used the wrong word, was thinking about the size of the ring gear.
I'll make it simpler: OP get 4.11s
>>14090589
>A tune and a downpipe are the first few mods you add
I think you are mistaking me for a bolt on ricer
was thinking of doing this to my 2001 gen 3 ls1 dunnydoor until i get it to a proper tuner
>>14090605
Nigger a tune and downpipe on a 2.5 subaru can get you about 70 foot pounds of torque and 40 horse.
>>14090605
>exhaust mods make you a ricer
I see the light now. Gonna go put my stock exhaust and DP back on, then drop $2k on a new rear diff and $1500 on some Michelin Pilot SS. Thank you wise tripfag.
>>14090640
You're welcome regardless, but I would just get a ring and pinion and some BFG Rivals, Falken Azenis, or Star Specs, could probably get the whole shebang out the door for less than whatever Stage 3 tune placebo stuff you would buy otherwise
>>14090660
Now I know you're just a shitty troll.
>>14090605
ur fuckin' dumb m8.
Op, I know some of the newer tuners actually allow someone to adjust the settings in the ECU I.E. do custom tuning. If that's the case, you can buy your tuner and throw it on a dyno and have someone dyno tune it. Best bang for your buck and will make sure you get the most out of your mods.
Not sure if that's the case on the ecoboost though. Mustang forum would be your best bet.
>>14090640
to be fair the diff and pss would probably perform better than the exhaust and tune
>>14090740
On a track, probably. The main difference is the DP, exhaust plus a dyno tune cost around $1800. Instead of the $3500.
I've tuned my 135i with something similar to Cobb but it uses android instead. It has a database with several tunes. I run a stage one tune with cat less downpipes. The tune disables the cat monitor on my car. I want run stage 2 but that requires a larger intercooler
>>14090640
Michelin pss on my back tires have actually been the best upgrade yet. I'll be getting the fronts done in a few
>>14090844
Should get a new ic anyway, stock one is garbage and has terrible heat soak problems due to tiny plenums
Depends on the quality of the "tuner" tool.
Vishnu ecus for example constantly run a halwin setup that "self learn" with short term and long term trim tables.
Most cars up until recently had a "base map" or long term trim and then the factory ecu adjusted on the fly as a short term table, utilizing open loop and closed loop tuning. Now, the tuner ecus in cars actually will make adjustments to the long term trim based off of repeated variances when comparing it to the short term trim.
That type of setup technically works on any obd2 car, however are more ideal for vehicles equipped with the newer bosch lamda sensors to get a more accurate afr.
So yeah, some new parts self tune and update their fuel maps accordingly. While the car is learning, you need to maintain low loads to prevent accidental lean conditions in high load situations.
Older ecu mngment (like my haltech e8) require us to manually input our fuel base maps,and then tweak the fuel based off of variables such as coolant temp, air temp, etc manually.
Without a dyno its a pain in the dick.
isnt a downpipe just like.. a single 60 deg bend.
id just buy the stock and take it somewhere to form it.
surely that's cheaper than some off the rack prebent stainless downpipe
also how does the downpipe benefit anyway? isn't the stock one already as big as the turbine outlet?
or can you benefit from immediately stepping it up after even if the outlet is still only 3" or w/e
and if it's going into a smaller exhaust wont it defeat the purpose and give some weird resonance
>>14091209
A downpipe can be flanged for a 3" and step down in size, or be a 2 or 2.5" on a stock system... with 3" being certainly beneficial. Going to a larger piping decreases the pressure after the turbine, which increases the turbine speed capability as well as the response.
Thats why alot of people get boost creep running a standard tune after they have gone bigger piping.
I got email tunes from Mo's Speed Shop. He has a forum and email if you Google him, he does specifically Ford.
>>14090600
It's one of the best tunes you can get for the Ecoboost.
>>14090499
I'm running a cobb tune on mine, difference was definitely noticable.
I wouldn't bother with CAI. Suspension would be better for improved handling before you add anything else to improve power, but most of these bolt-ons won't add much power anyway.
If you got the performance pack with upgraded pins, rods, tires, brakes then you won't need to upgrade most of that stuff for a while.
>>14090167
>buy Haltech ECU
>specify AFR parameters
>it tunes itself
Doneski
Holy fuck, the retards of /o/ all gathered in a single thread.
OP: to understand a tune you must understand how an engine works. A stock system flows a specific amount of air (an engine being an elaborate air pump) at a specific temperature and pressure. You stock ECU tune accounts for variations in both temp and pressure. Anything that changes the volume of the "system" (air intake to exhaust tip) will unbalance the system making the readings your ECU inaccurate. A normal ECU can account for small variations, but in doing so usually dials back the power the car makes because it believes something to be wrong.
A tune changes the ECU's understanding of the system to better be in line with the modified components.
For instance if you upgrade the intercooler, and the new intercooler has a different volume and/or flow rate, you stock ECU will believe something is off and pull power in order to protect itself. A tune will allow the ECU to account for the difference and make use of the upgraded volume/flow rate.
In short every time you modify the system, if you want to see gains, get a tune.
>>14095553
>not LS swapping
>not using HPtuners
>>14095553
>calls people retards
>has a misunderstanding of how an ecu works
hm
>>14095553
>For instance if you upgrade the intercooler, and the new intercooler has a different volume and/or flow rate, you stock ECU will believe something is off and pull power in order to protect itself. A tune will allow the ECU to account for the difference and make use of the upgraded volume/flow rate.
wouldn't the maf meter all the air though? all that's changed is iat which is also compensated for by the ecu.
>>14095553
IIRC for the boosted cars without any mods the most these tuners do is boost the turbo pressure and advance the timing with the assumption you are running 93 octane full time. If you have an auto or DSG they can mess with the shift times. Bumping the turbo pressure at WOT a few pounds should add more power.
I looked briefly into these for the newer turbo cars out there. If they live up to the claims it is a cheap easy way to add a few HP.
>>14096124
>>14096082
The ECU isn't all knowing from the factory, it has parameters and limitations. Stock they have an emphasis on fuel economy and dulled responses like throttle response on drive by wire for everyday driver normies. Get a tune and you will feel a difference, especially factory turbo cars.
>>14090371
They run lower level than that.
>>14091209
>isnt a downpipe just like.. a single 60 deg bend.
The downpipe holds the catalytic converter for a lot of cars
>>14096201
the maf sensor knows how much air is passing through it. the iat sensor knows the intake air temps. both these feed data to the ecu.
show me where i'm wrong please.
>>14096382
http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1320971#Post1320971
Putting on a bigger and better MAF requires a tune
>>14096413
changing to a differently calibrated coolant temp sensor will also require a tune. so what?
we're talking about intercooler upgrades, extend that to include exhaust and intake.
how would any of that require a tune on a maf car?
>>14096382
you're not wrong. an ecu doesnt know if its on a lawn mower or a car. the ecu can compensate for changes in flow, pressure, and temperature as long as you have iat, maf, and map and all the variables are within its scope and the afr correction scope.
if he posts some evidence, i'll concede, but for now i dont think you need a tune for a new exhaust.
>>14096429
>>14096454
I'm not going to Google everything for you. The advantages of a tune is well known. I think there's an article about how the ecoboost mustang on a tune can outperform a stock GT.
Here's an example of a tuned vic, put it on a dyno for a custom tune and got 10 more HP at the wheels with nothing else done to it.
http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2917273#Post2917273
>>14090371
Where? Microcontrollers for the engine, ABS, and other systems? They're bespoke real time operating systems. No desktop kernels or operating systems would be even remotely suitable for the application.
>>14090597
good lord that babby turbo sucks
>>14096480
>The advantages of a tune is well known. I think there's an article about how the ecoboost mustang on a tune can outperform a stock GT.
Of course.. most of the power in a tune is from enriching it and advancing timing because base maps are for economy and reliability.
But that doesn't mean you have to tune it after changing your exhaust.
>>14096480
Not arguing that a tune increases output.
Just *suggesting* that it is not completely necessary to stop your engine from exploding after a few mods.
In fact I would also suggest (if anything) the intercooler and downpipe would just make it operate with a larger factor of safety.
>>14096570
You want the most from your mods you get a tune.
>>14096823
Doesn't everyone already know this? Did anyone say otherwise?
>>14096880
See
>>14096454
He wanted evidence
>>14096922
he wanted evidence that contradicted his assertion that a tune was not required for safety after simple mods, and that the ecu would not have some degree of compensating ability to avoid running lean or whatever
