ESP becomes mandatory next year, and ESP Off switches becomes illegal
>no source
lel nigger
>>14087290
[citation needed]
Eh, it might happen. I think something similar does, right?
Good thing they can't do jack shit on older cars. Even though my E34 has ESP already.
>>14087290
Oh no, the prices of used cars without ESP will rise when I'm 50 years old.
In Europe ESP has been a requirement for new cars to get top safety rating (I.e. if you ace every crash tests, but you don't have ESP even as an optional, you don't get 5 stars) for a while now, which is basically as if it was mandatory.
Is that only for the US? You can still pull the fuse if you want to rip mad skidz
Asm is mandatory for the American market but idk about the off switch. Mine turns its self on at 35 and idk how to override it.
>2025
>cl ad
>no esp/ esp fully defeatable
>i know what i got
Between all the mandatory equipment and the new emissions classes measuring CO2 down to the exact gram I don't even want to own a car made after 2008 anymore.
Is this similar to traction control? US fag here and my truck does not have an "ESP" idiot light anywhere on the guage cluster
>>14087326
>It's not a real car if you can't crank-start it.
>My drum brakes stop the car just fine thank you very much. All you need to do is put it in second so the engine helps you brake. Us old folks know this and don't need no "assistance".
>They mandate seatbelts now? I'm not gonna be tied up in my own car. Pretty sure the government can keep them locked with a remote whatchamadangle.
>Tell ya hwhat once the Rooskees drop their nukes on us you'll be sorry you bought that modern Jap shit that won't start with all its computers and its beepers.
>>14087359
traction control brakes wheels that lose traction
ESP brakes the outside rear wheel in tight corners to prevent losing traction.
>>14087290
>2015
>still playing music using cds
Why would you even want to turn it off?
>>14087369
Except computerized systems aren't always an advantage as they can't see the road ahead or read the situation like a human can.
Being in understeer or oversteer does not mean you have lost control and reducing speed and applying braking can slow down an otherwise perfectly fine corner.
>>14087369
If it's so great why is it being made mandatory?
>>14087369
>all this shit that constantly breaks is needed in cars even though it hasn't made public roads measurably safer!
>performance tuning or engine mods? go fuck yourself, if you're producing a gram more CO2 than you should we'll take your plates!
>>14087385
Pro:
>saves lives
Con:
>autists who fantasize about fixing everything on their car themselves, although they actually bring it to the shop to replace bulbs, have one more system in their car they can't fantasize about fixing themselves anymore.
>>14087396
>all this shit that constantly breaks
You faggots always say the same shit. It's hilarious.
>>14087396
>it hasn't made public roads measurably safer!
compare vehicle miles and traffic-related deaths between, say, 1972 and 2015, then report back.
>>14087420
>moving the goalposts
I said 2008 just a few posts further up. Tell me in which way stricter emissions and mandatory tire pressure sensors have made my motoring life better.
No wonder why I keep ripping skids at intersections
>>14087423
They keep you from drowning due to raised sea levels
:^)
>>14087290
> thanks obama
>>14087290
Well traction control became mandatory 15/1/1 along with TPM systems.
>>14087359
The light is often just the ABS light on care where you can't turn it off.
>>14087310
most 'high performance' cars will probably have a 'fully sik' esp mode like ferrari's side slip control
>ESP
>not having ASC button
>>14087290
Not of the fucking possible, because we're gonna join forces with /k/ and unfuck the gov't cuckery
>>14087491
Like the limp dicks in /k/ would do anything without mom to hold there hand.
>>14087369
Are you just pretending to be retarded? Traction control sucks in the snow and means no fun allowed usually. Wanting to be able to turn it off is not ludditism or idiocy.
>>14087552
Traction control is fine in the snow.
>>14087552
but you can turn it off.
it's an electronic system with a computer chip that needs electricity
cut power to the system and it's off.
>>14087440
You're welcome.
>>14087312
Ford?
>>14087423
God you are so stupid.
Those sensors and control systems may not be for you directly, but they may lower the chance that another car crashes into you because an idiot took a turn too fast or was running low on pressure.
For every driver that takes care of his car and is actually conscious of its limits, there are 200 more drivers that are too stupid or too lazy to care and are a constant danger to other people on the road. Those people are who those sensors are for.
Now I'm sure you are a pro driver and your amazing skills will always allow you to have full control of your vehicle under every circumstances, but the unfortunate day you will misjudge a turn or have to make an emergency manoeuvre, you will be thankful an ESP (that is, assuming you have a vehicle with such an annoyance like an ESP) turned possible death into just a scare and skidmarks on your pants.
TPMS will also save your in the event of a puncture because you will have the time to stop and put the spare/call for assistance before you drive on rims and destroy the tire.
Holy fuck when will you guys learn you are not the only fucking driver on the road?!
>>14087866
I do support TPMS. Handy to have, relatively not expensive or complicated. Had a friend almost die because her tire was flat. Went around a corner, flipped the thing. Some people don't notice (if it's on a non-drive non-steer wheel). Not that these people CAN'T notice, they just don't. Happens.
Though not being able to turn off driver aids? Do not want. Love the idea of having them, but what's the point in not being able to disable it?
Have it get re-enabled every time you start the car, if you're worried about people forgetting. Anyone who wants to turn it off would otherwise just pull a fuse or whatever anyways, why make it difficult.
>>14087866
>seriously thinking that someone even half conscious will blow a tyre and drive it down to the rim before noticing
>>14087866
Also whether or not I destroy my tire or rim by driving on it for too long is my problem, not anyone else's, and does not warrant MANDATORY electronics.
>>14087943
>Also whether or not I destroy my tire or rim by driving on it for too long is my problem
Childish thinking.
>>14087935
You never worked with cars at a professional level, apparently.
I had flatbed carrying cars with destroyed tires almost daily to either the shop I worked for or the huge tire shop next to us.
People just don't notice or choose not to care.
I had a puncture on my rear right tire a while ago, with my old car, it was a relative quick puncture, because it happened during a 10minute trip and the tire was absolutely fine before starting.
I genuinely never realized I was running low until the tire was completely flat, and even then, the few meters it took me to realize and pull over were enough to just tear the shit out of it and force me to change.
Maybe TPMS would have allowed me to save it, maybe not, but sure as hell it would have helped.
There are people who choose to pretend the noise/vibration is not happening and just hope to arrive at destination in time. That's how it is, that's who you share your roads with daily.
>>14087943
It is everyone's fucking problem the moment it compromises the safety of your vehicle you stupid fuck.
You are not driving alone, you share the road with other people that don't want to die because you are too stupid to inflate and check your tires.
Please kill yourself against a tree as soon as possible
>>14087622
It's not that simple.
>>14087613
Not all tcs systems are created equal. I'd just like to have the diffs act normally and predictably.
>>14088006
I for one welcome the day when they do away with steering wheels and windshields/windows altogether. That way we won't have to see the scary outside and google or apple can take us to where they say we need to be.
Solid post good sir. I am sure you are a dapper gentleman and connoisseur of fine polyurethane imitation leather coats. May we meet on reddit someday!
>>14088142
>answering with something completely unrelated to the post quoted.
Ha..classic
>>14087290
Cars have Extra-sensory perception?
>>14088006
How in what way do safety measures do anything for this kind of person? When there are people (and there are people this stupid) that will happily drive down the motorway on their rims without noticing what makes you think electronic aids will make them any safer?
Well done, you prevented a minority of the crashes that this braindead retard has the possiblity of creating, now when they're texting on their phone or looking in their vanity mirror and rear-end you it doesn't do jack shit.
>>14087552
ESP is not traction control.
ESP is electronic stability protection. Adjusts power and braking to stop rolling and sliding.
Traction control is traction control. Takes power away to combat wheelspin.
>>14088414
So it's almost worse since you can't tell what the car's going to do in corners. I like my predictable, consistent over or understeer
>having ESP
>having TC
>having ABS
>having airbags
>>14087376
Underrated
>>14088392
Of course not everyone will get the message, but when you have flashing warnings on your cluster that say LOW TIRE PRESSURE, you will definitely notice.
Some people will just hide the warning and keep driving, some will somehow manage to not see it, but a lot of potentially oblivious people will realize and hopefully do something about it.
How is this hard to understand?
It is not meant to prevent every death on the road, it is meant to raise awareness about a vehicle for those many people who are not aware/skilled/concentrated enough to notice.
What the hell do texting and driving even have to do with TPMS and safety measures?
A car is meant to be driven by anyone, which means every soccer mom/drunk asshole/teenager/old as fuck person can share the road with others.
All that electronic is meant to help mitigate the damage when those people will eventually crash into each other.
By your logic nobody should even wear seatbelts because other people are drunk driving anyway.
>>14088657
Yeah man, do you remember the outrage after that investigation about ESP actually causing more accidents because of unpredictability? That was a real scandal, thank god they banned ESP after that.
>>14088859
but making it mandatory goes against that, it means everyone has to have it even when EPS can disadvantage an experienced driver.
Oversteer and Understeer are by no means a bad thing in the hands of an experienced driver, most good drivers can go out and obtain both through every single corner of a driving day and have nothing go wrong.
If you actually look at rollovers, which is the only serious reason to have EPS, they are a tiny minority of accidents. Then out of that tiny minority the vast majority of rolls are pickups, SUVs and Vans, barely any are actually road cars.
I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen a bad driver go through a corner too fast in a road car, it was once and it was because they were under the influence of drugs and just plowed through the middle of the roundabout.
EPS is fine, if its a choice that can be disabled, it's retarded as a mandatory feature and it isn't even dealing with the root cause of most accidents.
ITT people who need to attend a computer hardware 101 course.
It's not hard to develop piggyback chips it just takes time its not expensive either.
Or you can just suck it up and buy an aftermarket ECU. My friends 370z was being a pain in the ass with wanting to see all the interior bits not just running an engine so he just bought a link ECU and it worked mint
>>14088672
this. If you need driver aids you're a fgt.
I removed the airbags from my car, it didn't come with TCS, and I plan on deleting ABS soon enough.
>>14088928
>things that never happened.jpg
>>14088913
The problem is, nobody cares about experienced drivers, they are not the ones causing accidents.
For every experienced driver there are thousands of inexperienced ones who panic at the first hint of a slide and cause most of the accidents.
They are the reason you have all these safety systems. There is nothing to discuss, unfortunately.
An experienced driver will surely be able to adapt to his vehicle or simply find a way to disable whatever electronic countermeasure he dislikes. For everyone else, ESP, ABS and the likes could be lifesavers both for them and for those unfortunate enough to be in their path when they lose control.
I am not a pro driver in the slightest, I don't drive hard enough to even trigger any of the safety systems my car has, but I am all for them being mandatory, I just don't like that they can't be turned off because that's just stupid.
>>14088979
But inexperienced drivers don't get into borderline cases of traction where EPS applies, I've never even seen a driver get on borderline traction and end up in a dangerous crash.
They either go in far too fast, in which case EPS does nothing, or they crash due to nerves or inexperience/lack of attention.
>>14088928
>removing airbags
why?
>>14089019
Next thing you're gonna question people who ride bicycles without helmets. It only affects them, so why do you even begin to give a shit?
>>14087314
>>14087290
Oh no
Whatever will we do
>>14088928
>I removed the airbags from my car
Let me guess, muh weight saving
>>14088995
>cruising at medium speed down twisty road
>moron is distracted by phone
>notices a turn at the last second and turns the wheel as fast as he can while braking for the panic
>no ESP: car spins or understeering into oblivion, goes either off-road or into oncoming traffic
>with ESP: depending on the speed, there could be a major probability that car straightens out and moron keeps going with a faint scent of shit in the car
Really it only comes down to: 100% probability of an accident vs anywhere between 0 and 100% probability of an accident. The second option is the obvious right answer and, considering the amount of cars and drivers in the world, even a slight decrease in probability could generate some pretty big numbers.
I could go on all day with stupid examples of mundane stuff like that and all of them would potentially benefit from some kind of electronic safety system.
The problem is they don't make surveys to know how many people were saved by ESP, you just know how many accidents happen without ever being sure if it was something a control system could have prevented in the first place.
There is nothing you or me can do, when it comes to saving lives and getting better safety scores, a small chance of success is always better than no chance at all, especially when developing certain systems is relatively cheap and easy.
>>14089049
Not him and I would never remove airbags in the name of weight savings, but holy hell have you ever held an airbag in your hands? They are fucking heavy.
>>14087415
Do you have a source on that?
>>14087415
I only have ABS on my bike but I actually do what I can do on my own.
>>14089056
ESP isn't magical, if you're going 70mph into a sharp bend and you jerk the steering wheel and jam the brakes you'll go off the road.
>>14089148
I don't know if you are actively trying to ignore any of the points or are just so obtuse to think manufactures and lawmakers should only consider you as their standard.
Even more so when talking about ESP, which is literally only electronic considering all the hardware is already there because of ABS and is cheap as fuck to add to a car.
>>14087910
>Had a friend almost die because her tire was flat. Went around a corner, flipped the thing.
This is called natural selection. The more we fuck with the system, the weaker we become.
>>14089184
>The more we fuck with the system, the weaker we become
Surely you have enough understanding of "natural selection" (considering how readily you opine using such words) to realize how, ultimately, this is a good thing.
>>14089173
Why don't they just force every car to be electronically limited to 3000 revs max and 70mph top speed?
EPS shouldn't be mandatory, it should be an option (which it has been) that in the EU is required to get top safety marks (which the average driver buys off) which in turn is required for the lowest insurance premium (which people not solely interested in performance will look for) so all the market pressure already exists.
On top of that the main arguments for EPS are corner stability and roll-overs, which NGO's love to jump on because rolls are a big portion of deaths, yet normal cars are a tiny minority of roll-overs and roll-overs are by extension a tiny minority of accidents.
As for car control in corners, most standard road cars are engineered so that slight overspeed will result in oversteer on most road conditions, in which case the natural reflex results in a regain of traction.
In the case when you are going too fast for the natural reflex to enable cornering (i.e slowing down and giving more grip to the tyres) EPS does nothing.
As for cornering accidents most of these will result in damage only to the driver and their car, so why do I care. I'd rather I can actually have some kind of fun driving in my car, not in some nanny state patrolled by fun police.
There is no comparison between seatbelts and airbags as neither of these things impede the abilities of the car, in fact in the case of seatbelts can increase the ability of the driver to go faster, even arguably with ABS in most road conditions.
Traction loss in corners is a joke anyway, I did it once when I was first driving in my shitbox going flat out down a countryside road and the reflex action puts you back onto the road, just improve driver education and you won't need such ridiculously hands-on safety measures.
>>14087685
Chebby Colorado. I don't want to pull the fuse but I wanna drift :|
>>14087376
Termi can't drive.
>>14087290
>mfw no airbags
>mfw no traction control or esp
>mfw 2800lbs
>mfw 280whp
Who cares
not like me or anyone on this board buys anything made after 2002 anyway
>>14089354
>mfw i never bought anything made after 2002
>>14087290
So people can read my mind?
>>14087304
Your gay ass Beamer can't even turn it off to begin with
Seriously, is /o/ this retarded? This is GOOD. It will help keep Marcy and her crossover from killing you in your POS Miata when she hits hardpacked snow doing 10 over. Her front-left all-season radial breaks traction and the computer steps in. It makes course corrections before she and her annoying children can make heads or tails of it.
If you don't want it, you can be basement-dwelling, NEET fagmasters and purchase vehicles made in the previous millennium. I doubt you would drive better with it off, anyways.
>>14089763
No.
Market already demands this shit for normies cars.
Fuel economy, and "safety" are their two top concerns.
All it does is kill enthusiast cars.
>>14087373
Wait, so it's just yaw control that's designed to induce understeer? Who the fuck thought that was a good idea?
Last second computer intervention is retarded, just shove the normies in self driving bubbles and make cars good again.
>>14089341
>no face
R u dead?
>>14089039
>Computer isn't happy with this
>Doesn't allow the car to move
> tfw I can turn off ESP in my BMW
> tfw doing so drops it out of sport mode
>>14089903
>borrowing newer ford fiesta (not ST)
>figure out how to turn off traction control
>car loses it's get up and go
no fun allowed
So how does ESP work with a manual transmission car?
Will I lose predictability if I down shit before a turn and power through it?
>>14089918
It was a DCT six speed too, but with no shift controls.
>>14089903
Sport mode in your BMW is a setting for the aids.
>>14089206
TPMS is shit
It doesn't "Save Lives"
IT panics old women into bothering me to stand in 15 degree weather and ad 5 lbs of air to their perfectly fine tire.
Most of those "random blowouts that could have been avoided if my TPMS told me that it was going to happen" are women drivers curbing the everliving fuck out of their tires
>>14089976
TPMS mostly exists because of run flat tires, since manufacturers couldn't sell cars with run flats unless they have TPMS as you may not know the tire is flat. They had TPMS across the line even if only certain cars had the run flats for simplicity, as those tires became less popular TPMS still hung around.
>>14089976
I can tell from my steering when I need to top up my tyres; it becomes heavier. Seriously I go to fill it up and like 2 or 3 PSI goes in sometimes.
You wouldn't do it for your car? Think of all the greenhouse gases you're preventing from being released!
Pretty happy - Purchased a 2009 Toyota Landcruiser VDJ79 about a year back. It's got airbags for driver and passenger and is modern enough to have a common rail VNT turbo diesel v8.
But no ABS.
No Trac control
No ESP
No cruise control
No tyre monitoring
Sway bar on the rear, nothing up front.
Love that shit. MY12 models got ABS as standard, MY16 will have ESP as standard.
Just pull the ABS fuse you whiney faggots holy duck
Even better than that, just stop whinging about ABS.
If you're threshold braking the ABS won't engage anyway
>>14089776
A true "enthusiast" who didn't like certain safety features in their car would learn to delete or disable them.
>tfw too poor for driver aids
feels kinda good actually
>>14088239
Kek
