if the most wear occurs on startup due to the lack of oil pressure, why dont car makers add an electric oil pump to prime the channels and passages before you start, similar to how the fuel pump will prime?
>>14077280
Because cars last long enough and they want you to keep buying. Add that to the cost of developing a system and why would they?
BMW already did it on the V10 M5 engine.
>>14077280
Taking a risk to make an oiling system electronic and having it fail is probably worse than just taking the little bit of extra wear on parts that are meant to wear and be replaced anyway.
An extra part to break, the wear done at start up isn't significant to justify for most consumer vehicles.
They do exist within heavy duty machinery and high performance racing applications though.
>>14077294
tru
>>14077304
didnt know
>>14077322
i meant an electric pump in addition to the mechanical one
>>14077328
they way it works in my head it would be supplemental so if it breaks it just runs like a regular car without one
>>14077349
I could only see them being useful if they maybe coupled an electric oil pump and a oil heater together for cold weather. Otherwise it would kinda be excessive for a average A to B car.
>>14077280
Good question. I think wear is still so minimal it's considered not worth it.
If the likes of Toyota and Lexus aren't doing it it's probably unnecessary.
>>14077280
cuz that dont make no money
>>14077393
>If the likes of Toyota and Lexus aren't doing it it's probably unnecessary.
>Toyota AND Lexus
Is this how you resolve your technical curiosities, by being an absolute moron?
>>14077401
calm your sperg anon, i am aware lexus is a toyota division
>>14077401
no one cares nerd.
airplane engines have this.
or they did in ww2 anyway i don't know if they do now.
cars still get 200k np without bearing issues if they are treated right so probably not much of a concern.
>>14077432
bout what
>>14077322
>Electric motors
>1 moving part
>Fail
>Combustion engines
>ALL of the moving parts
>Mechanical reliability
nigga wat
That said, run stationary for 10 seconds before you start moving, and don't redline it until it's warmed up. Problem solved.
>>14077512
86% of failures are electrical when it comes to cars
>>14077280
Oil is thick, and stay in place. Oil channels are also pressurized, when you start your engine, the very first cranks are enough to send oil where its needed.
An entire engine is pressurized with oil in a few seconds.
As long as the sump doenst pickup air, you're fine.
>>14077512
Electronic and electric are two different things. Also electric motors are the most unreliable, with pneumatic being the most.
>>14077524
dont run your cables over the exhaust manifold
>>14077724
Ford here, fuck you don't tell me what to do.
>I'll wrap my fuel lines around the exhaust manifold if I have to god damn it, you'll listen to polka if I say so for cripe sake.
>>14077736
>>14077736
>efi sensors running over exhaust manifold
>>14077280
>straight cut gears
how does that not make a fuckton of noise?
Just because there isn't pressure doesn't mean the oil film is gone, And there will be pressure almost instantly assuming the filter anti-drainback valve is working.
>>14078085
Because that's an oil pump and they're not actually transmitting power across.
It's still a shit design though. Thanks GM!
>>14078103
good point
thanks
>>14077592
electric motor unreliable ? how the fuck do you do that
>>14078150
Depending on how cheap they are they will either burn up because of the large amounts of heat they put out, or break the magnets inside.
>>14078260
Theres also no way to cool the motor, fuel pumps can last a long time because they use the fuel to cool themselves.
An electric oil pump would have so much heat from the hot oil flowing through it and the heat its generating it just has nowhere to go.
>>14077280
prelube pumps
>>14078085
Car salesmen would be out of a job.
You mean, they actually build things to last a long time?!?!?! That would be like a time machine right? When white guys were engineers?
>>14077736
What's the worst that could happen
>>14078332
There's a deep sense of satisfaction and pride seeing an automobile with a flathead from the 30s or 40s fire up and drive around after sitting for 20 years on the factory long block
>>14077736
>>14077280
Dry sumps take care of the pre-starting to some extent with their scavenger pumps, also being able to cope with high G loads, oil starvation and better cooling.
But they cost a lot
People pay to some degree for what they get with a conventional wet sump
What about some new cars (not talking about a hybrid) that shut off at red lights and start when you hit the gas, Isn't this extremely hard on the engine? Most people here seem to floor it when the light goes green. Starting the engine and going instantly to almost WOT seems like it's really going to fuck shit up in the long run.
But who cares if shit wears out prematurely... as long as the car is "green" it's okay.
>>14078275
OP said an electric pump to prime the oil passages, not continuously circulate the oil. It sounds like a good idea to me if it was used in conjunction with a mechanical pump and it only ran for a brief window before startup. Then if the electric pump failed, you'd just lose the priming action.
I think the reason we don't see this is the fact that it would add complexity, weight, cost, and your average consumer wouldn't have the patience to let it prime.
>>14079281
That, and it wouldn't matter a bit to the vast majority that buy new cars to have it. For those that it does matter to there are aftermarket systems available that they could choose to have installed.
>>14079407
>>14079281
seems like it would be really advantageous in hybrids that start and stop a brazilian times a day tho
>>14077280
Dry sump cars have this.
The race car I work on actually has three pumps, an engine-driven one, an electric one at the oil tank, and a manual primping pump that you put a drill on and spin for a few seconds before starting the car.
>>14078275
>>14078260
you two are assuming the electric pump runs with the car. what if it primes, then turns off since like op said it would compliment the mechanical pump not replace it?
>>14077280
couldn't the starter prime the engine somehow?
>>14077512
>1 moving part cant fail meme
>>14078275
The motor doesnt have to be inside the oil you dumb shit. Just aircool it.
>>14080107
>someone tells a truth I cannot deny
>I'll just call it a meme instead
>>14079120
For all I know many of them have pressure reservoirs keeping up oil-pressure, and pretty much all of them have reduced play in compoents and engines generally optimized to survive that.
It definately is an increased load for the engine, but they are made appropriately.
That's one of the main reason why start-stop is expansive really.
>>14080392
so why do piston engines have higher reliability that rotarys.
less moving parts amirite?
>>14081710
Majority of people are idiots who think they can treat a rotary like a piston engine.
