4X4 VS AWD
Winter edition
seriously what is better for winter? I always see Jeeps, Explorers, and Blazers in the ditch but rarely see Audis or Subarus.
I know this observation is far from scientific, it could be the sheer number of SUVs vs AWD coupes, it could be the average intelligence of the driver of each vehicle, or it could be the vehicle itself.
All things equal what is better 4x4 or AWD?
>>14065674
AWD
/thread
>inb4 hurr durr /threading your own post
fuck off
More dumbfuck women drive jeeps and suvs.
>>14065674
4x4 and AWD are the same thing on a vehicle with 4 wheels. The difference is just marketing.
>>14065674
4x4 obviously..
4x4 can be locked. awd isnt locked.
>>14065681
retard general?
>>14065708
literally retard: the post
>>14065709
>locking being useful in DD situations
what a dumb ass
>>14065715
Explain the difference to me since I'm so retarded then.
>>14065674
AWD is to stock iPhone what 4WD is to an android phone
>awd is for tards who can't drive
You might feel cockier in a 4WD vehicle and be less careful.
>>14065717
>Winter edition
Obviously assuming enough snow is on the ground to make someone switch to 4wd you retarded fuck head.
>>14065724
for one 4wd is selectable. and for two rwd evenly distributes torque to the front and rear (like a locker) awd doesn't.
>>14065747
>for one 4wd is selectable
So you would say a 80 series and up Land Cruiser or a lot of Jeeps with full time transfer cases are not 4WD, then?
>>14065763
they dont have transfer cases they have center diffs with locking pins that can be.. get this.. selected.
>>14065784
They do indeed have transfer cases, you moron. What do you think houses the differential?
>>14065747
cant belive you are this fucking retarded
tell me more about locking your differentials while driving on a highway, parking on a mall or other DD sitations that are affected by snow
>oh wait you dont because you will end up destroying your differentials, even on winter
>evenly distributes torque to the front and rear (like a locker) awd doesn't.
except it does dumb ass, subaru AWD has a 50-50 bias and its full time
you are fucking retarded, kill yourself
People with 4x4 are normally dumb fucks who think
>i'm in a truck I can do 80 on an icy road with all season tires
With that said I really want a Subaru but everyone I look at has signs of blown head gasket and are not priced accordingly
>>14065674
actual AWD that's permanent is excellent with winter tires.
most modern cars that are AWD are predominately FWD biased and the rear wheels only kick in when the front slip
4x4 usually means that your center diff is locked and you cant drive it on pavement cause you'll get wheel hop.
So proper AWD, and winter tires.
but winter tires on anything is better than AWD without.
AWD/4x4 really means that you can drive through an unplowed street and not get stock, and pull other cars out of ditches.
>>14065709
>AWD can't be locked
4x4 is for chicks bruh
>>14065674
Really depends on the type of AWD and if the differentials are locking//open or LSD.
I think the one of the best setups is mechanical AWD + rear LSD.
I have a 98 explorer(AWD + rear LSD) and its a trooper thats for sure. Never been stuck once in the snow.
>>14065805
idk what to tell you dude. youre fucking stupid and wrong. literally the worst combination. why would someone select 4wd on a road where they didn't need it..
>locking differentials
i said locked transfer case.. not differentials.. jesus youre a real moron
>>14065790
youre a real dense fucker arent you.
>awd and 4wd are the same!
no actually they arent here's two reason why
>its not selectable!
actually it is selectable
>but a diff is a transfer case! well.. sorta! i mean they do the same thing! .. right??
fuck off idiot, you're wrong. accept it and move on.
you can literally go to the subaru site and read them explaining the difference. but ive already done that for you.
>>14065835
There are plenty of 4x4s (Jeeps, Land Rovers, Land Cruisers etc) where it isn't selectable.
A transfer case is simply a case for the centre differential. Some vehicles don't have a transfer case and have the centre diff in the gearbox instead (Subaru for example).
>>14065835
i cannot belive how fucking stupid you are
you are literally one of the dumbest motherfuckers i've seen on /o/
>why would someone select 4wd on a road where they didn't need it
what do you mean "didnt need it" of course you dont need AWD/4x4 on an icy road if you are not fucking stupid, but seeing that there are people as stupid as you the extra traction of full time AWD really helps, specially when pavement starts becoming dry but there are areas that are still wet or frozen
you cannot lock the transfer case and the differential, drive it around like an AWD car and expect it not to blow up, literally every 4x4 manual will tell you to disengage them after passing the low traction situation
>i said locked transfer case.. not differentials
you dumb faggot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_case
>Transfer cases designed for off-road use can mechanically lock the front and rear axles when needed[2] (e.g. when one of the axles is on a slippery surfaces or stuck in mud, whereas the other has better traction). This is the equivalent to the differential lock.
>equivalent to the differential
i.e. turn your differentials and transfer case off after using them and dont drive for miles and miles of pavement at relatively high speeds because you will fuck it up
kill yourself, faggot
>>14065835
Nigger what are you even trying to say at this point?
>>14065869
>Some vehicles don't have a transfer case and have the centre diff in the gearbox instead (Subaru for example).
Actually they do have a transfer case. All AWD vehicles have one.
The reason you see more 4x4's (suvs, jeeps, etc) I'd because 4wd is selectable, and when you don't have 4wd on, they are rwd. Which is pretty shitty for snow. Newer 4x4's have a button. Older 4x4's had a manual transfer case and then you had to get out and lock the front hubs.
But you can't run 4wd on cement because the transfer case distributes power evenly to the front and back-theres no differential, so you can't turn around in a parking lot, because unless there's dirt and snow for the tires to give, you'll bind up and break shit.
Awd is always 'on', but usually fwd until the transfer case/diff/magic box notices that the front is slipping, then the rear kicks in. Unless the manufacturer set it it be mostly rwd until the front slips, or 50/50 or however.
Awd is better for a 'get in and forget' DD, while 4x4 is better for actual offroading.
>>14065674
A mechanical transfer case 4wd with lockers in both the front and rear will handle more adverse terrain than an electronic or "smart" awd system. With any adjustable slip/torque system there is a loophole at some point where power will not be supplied to the wheels (turning, too much resistance). With a locked, mechanical differential something will go until the weakest point breaks. Awd is far more streetable and a lot more forgiving.
>>14065869
>A transfer case is simply a case for the centre differential
A transfer case TRANSFERS 50% of the load to the front wheels.
a differential DIFFERENTIATES between front an rear.
>There are plenty of 4x4s where it isn't selectable
if it doesnt have the option to lock it isnt 4wd.
I dont know why you cant just accept that there is a distinction between 4x4 and awd. you were wrong. let it go.
>>14065912
Why can't you niggers unlearn these bullshit definitions?
ITT two retarded children think a transfer case and a differential are the same thing.
Just hide this thread and move on.
>>14065920
Which definitions are bullshit? It may not be 100% spot on with all the technical details, but I'm pretty sure I have an ok grasp of it.
>>14065925
>>14065919
see
>>14065895
>equivalent to the differential
you cannot drive on a locked differential or transfer cae for longs periods of time, this is a fact
now kill yourself
>>14065919
> if it doesnt have the option to lock it isnt 4wd.
Now you're just trying to impose your arbitrary definition of "4WD" in order to avoid losing the argument. Try telling all those manufacturers that they're wrong.
>>14065925
Stop trying to pretend you are someone else.
>>14065947
You're beyond retarded. I'm done arguing with you. Fucking lol.
Like honestly there should be some kind of test to post on this board.
>>14065936
4WD = 4 Wheel Drive
4x4 = 4 Driven Wheels of 4 Wheels
AWD = All Wheel Drive
If the vehicle has 4 wheels then all these terms mean the same thing. There is no distinction between them that is generalisable to every vehicle. This is because there are dozens of different ways of driving four wheels and manufacturers pick which term to use based on what will market their vehicle better.
>>14065955
Wasn't your entire argument that they were the same? No you're saying they are different? How convenient.
keep pretending you won this argument. you got decimated you stupid fucking kid. buy a car, learn to work on it, learn some basic terms, and then start replying to threads and you wont get shit on every time. Bye bud.
>>14065983
>cant prove anything I posted wrong
>ragequits
thas rite
fuck off this thread and stop spreading misinformation
4x4 is not better in the winter, because driving with the differential and transfer case on all the time is stupid and will fuck your shit up
AWD can be locked, mitsubishi has lockers in old Pajeros and Evo lancers, it can be full time and send equal torque to the front, rear like in subarus and can send equal torque to left and right, like in Evos with AYC
>>14065994
Literally autism and wrong: the post.
>>14065995
My argument is laid out in full here >>14065994
I've owned and worked on a couple of AWD cars but that doesn't really imply I have insights one could only gain from being familiar with them.
>>14066018
>AWD can be locked
turning it into 4x4
>because driving with the differential and transfer case on all the time is stupid and will fuck your shit up
who said anything about the differential?
driving in 4x4 will not fuck your shit up if you are on snow you retarded monkey.
if you dont need 4wd then 2wd is fine.
>>14065994
4wd is the phonetic spelling of 4x4.... it's not a separate thing LMAO
>>14065994
nice autism
>>14065674
>live in Appalachia
>usually december is pretty cold
>sometimes a decent amount of snow
>this year is warm
>supposed to be 71 on christmas
>not even a flurry since march
>jan and feb will probably be windy icy hell like usual without any good snow
Life is pain
>>14066040
>driving in 4x4 will not fuck your shit up if you are on snow you retarded monkey.
the problem is snow and ice on roads dry up and you cannot drive on dry pavement with lockers on dumb ass
you can drive on dry pavement off because AWD has clutch packs
you are stupid OP never implied offroad only, he implied winter
enjoy breaking your differentials for entering an underground parking lot with dry pavement because you tought it was ok to lock your 4x4 because there was some snow outside and other similar situations
>>14066070
why would i drive on dry pavement with 4wd? are u dumb? id switch to 2wd
also
>enjoy breaking ur diffs
you don't actually know why you cant drive 4wd on pavement do you? hint: it has nothing to do with your diffs.
>>14065994
When you try to correct someone make sure you're not retarded and regurgitating fecal matter from your mouth
4x4 is more versatile
awd is a stupid marketing point for normies and people on /o/ apparently.
>>14066021
>>14066044
>>14066085
Nice ad hominem attacks. I'm willing to listen if you have some credible evidence that i'm wrong.
>>14066080
>why would i drive on dry pavement with 4wd? are u dumb? id switch to 2wd
because, for example you are driving on the highway and the pavement in front is getting dry
you now have to pull over or reduce your speed, unlock ur differentials and in the case there is more ice or snow in front of you, you have to do the same but locking them on again
really fucking intelligent
>hint: it has nothing to do with your diffs.
hint: it does
>>14066102
shitty bait desu
>>14065674
>I always see Jeeps, Explorers, and Blazers in the ditch but rarely see Audis or Subarus.
There's a decent chance the Audis and Subarus are newer and have good enough stability control to counteract the inherent retardism of normies driving.
as some people have tried to mention above through the shitposting, awd is somewhat of an advantage for normal use because it is always active, and if you have a normal transfer case you can only engage 4 wheel drive if you wont hit any pavement.
if you are barging through like 3-4 feet of snow then 4x4 can be an advtange, but no matter what method sends the power to the front and rear wheels, if you have open diffs and shitty non-snow tires, you will get shit on.
awd is better for normal daily driving snow, but snow tires are king
>>14066105
Thankfully they make air lockers. You can shift into 2wd while rolling with a manual transfer case but its discouraged. Electronic transfer case is fine
>>14066181
after a week of warm weather where the roads are half ice and half pavement, like they are in south dakota right now, 4 wheel drive is useless. you end up in your dumb dodge with shitty tires spinning them when the light turns green
>>14066202
and so is awd
>>14066214
no, with awd you at least get both the front and back of the vehicle pulling it
>>14066249
4x4 vs awd isn't even a legit question. Too many variables. You could compare two different specific cars, one with awd and one with 4wd.
There's no strict way to define the difference between 4wd and awd. A lot of people, including automotive companies and the aftermarket, will tell you different things. You guys can keep arguing though, pretend you're going to get somewhere.
My personal opinion is
4wd = lockable, selectable, 50/50 split transfer case.
AWD = full time. Center diff may or may not split torque 50/50 normally but is not restricted to 50/50 at all times. Electronic controls and limited slips, etc, make this a hard to define genre.
I have a Jeep Rubicon and a Celica All-Trac.
Jeep has a selectable part time case and selectable locking axles. Is 4wd.
Celica has a viscous center diff that under straight line driving is 50/50 split, but but under wheel spin can send more torque to whenever end has more traction. I would call this an awd. Toyota marketed this as "full time 4wd."
So I would indeed consider any Jeep with "full time 4wd" to be awd. And this is very evident if you try to do much off roading with it. Even if you selectably lock the transfer case in them, they tend to be very weak and unreliable in comparison to a true part time 4x4 case.
And anyway, you're not truly FULL 4x4 unless you have selectable locking axles front and rear.
Also, true locking part time 4wd vehicles have a tendency to understeer on slick surfaces, due to (drumroll) being locked front to rear. Awd does not have this tendency, or at least to a much lesser degree depending on car.
>>14066292
you seem to be missing the point. you cant engage 4wd because half of the road is pavement so you will be constantly stressing the casing especially during turns. awd is always engaged.
get your head out of your ass, the reason awd works better for daily driving is because you dont have to worry about binding shit up. full time 4wd does this as well but not many vehicles employ this
now fuck off kid
>>14066323
>you cant engage 4wd because half of the road is pavement so you will be constantly stressing the casing especially during turns
If you're only ever turning at max steering lock, maybe. It really just makes the tires scrub. It won't even slip as badly as driving a car with a spool or welded diff on dry pavement. Stop blowing shit out of proportion.
>>14065674
>seriously what is better for winter?
Winter tires > Intelligence > Drivetrain
>>14066315
I'm mad jelly of your Jeep Rubicon. Those things hold value better than a Subaru. Virtually the only way to get one for a sane price is to just buy it new but the new ones are fucking ugly.
>>14065674
RWD in a shitbox sports car you don't care about banging up a little with studded hakkapeliittas is by far the best for winter.
>>14066355
Thanks.
I feel like I got a pretty good deal on mine. It's an '05, bought it stock with 30,000 miles on it 3 years ago for $14k. Have put another $15k into it in parts. Still less than a new JK Rubicon, and better in every way (in my opinion)
>>14066340
the end result is: 2wd vs not, and not will always win. no one is going to run their transfer case locked into 4wd when there is dry pavement around, that is how you break things
>>14066380
Lol you're delusional. That thing is fuckin old.
>>14065813
>can't drive on pavement with 4x4 locked
How retarded are you?
>>14066394
You don't know anything about the platform
>>14065674
After having used both extensively:
4x4 > AWD
AWD is nice on the rainy highway but useless in most other situations.
>>14066387
>no one is going to run their transfer case locked into 4wd when there is dry pavement around, that is how you break things
No, 4wd on dry pavement isn't going to magically grenade your driveline. That's what I already said.
>>14066414
I'm not the guy you're arguing with, but...
No it's not just going to blow up if you're driving in a straight line. But if you're driving around running errands with a part time 4x4 case locked, you're going to drastically shorten the life of the chain, assuming it's chain driven.
You're also inducing bind on all the rest of the driveline, driveshafts, axle shafts, ujoints, etc under cornering.
>>14066433
>You're also inducing bind on all the rest of the driveline, driveshafts, axle shafts, ujoints, etc under cornering.
It'll only introduce bind worth caring about at or close to full steering lock. It's really not a big deal.
Tires and the proper equipment trump any drive system when the weather gets nasty.
Awd>4wd>fwd>rwd. In the order of ease of handling on ice if all other variables are the same
>arcticfag is
>>14066450
That's just it, it's not a situation where there either is or is not bind. It depends on how sharp you're cornering. And how often. And whether or not you have a limited slip in one or both axles.
You really shouldn't be driving around with 4wd locked on dry pavement because it's simply not necessary, and it WILL shorten the life of the parts involved. By how much is highly variable.
There's a reason every manufacturer that sells a part time 4x4 vehicle tells you not to drive with it in 4x4 on dry pavement, and why they call it part time.
>>14065674
>I always see Jeeps, Explorers, and Blazers in the ditch but rarely see Audis or Subarus.
People who drive Jeeps, Blazers, etc know they have 4wd. For whatever reason, they think that having this means they can safely drive normal highway speeds on an icy/snowy road regardless of what their tires or anything are.
I would imagine that a lot of people driving Audi's or Subaru's don't have a clue what AWD is or even that their car has it so they drive it like they would a normal FWD car.
>mfw friends ask me why I drive so slow on ice and shit when I drive a jeep
Nigger my Cherokee doesn't brake for shit on dry pavement, what makes you think I can stop on ice?
>>14066503
People buy Subaru for the AWD, they know they have it but they still drive safely because they are scared. I always see SUV's in ditches though and I always thought it was the same thing that you believe.
People with SUV's think their vehicle is perfect in every condition and drive like normal and end up sideways because they got shit tires. Most people in general have no idea just how important tires actually are.
>>14066514
>People buy Subaru for the AWD
My city is pretty poor so most of the subarus you see are 2005 or older which is why I think a lot of them don't realize it. Could also just be they're more careful like you say.
>>14066491
>That's just it, it's not a situation where there either is or is not bind. It depends on how sharp you're cornering. And how often.
In theory, it'll bind with any steering input at all. The reality is that it just doesn't bind enough to matter at all at the radii of turns while driving normally. The only noticeable driveline bind will be with if you're making a tight, tight turn like you were pulling into a parking spot or something. It's just not a big deal. I'm not saying you should drive a part-time 4wd vehicle on dry pavement in 4wd, but it's not going to catastrophically fail.
>>14066524
If you go into any Subaru dealership it's like an indoctrination station. Subaru is safe, Subaru is love. Do you love your family? Buy Subaru.
Anyway, Subaru has the best waiting lobbies known to man. Fucking loved my Subaru dealership, man. I have a Ford now and sitting in their lobby is smelly, dingy and they charge me for burnt coffee.
>>14066531
>If you go into any Subaru dealership it's like an indoctrination station. Subaru is safe, Subaru is love. Do you love your family? Buy Subaru.
Interdasting. I'm honestly considering buying one after I get enough for a new car. Living in CO I do a lot of outdoor shit so I need something with good ground clearance and they seem to get really good MPG despite being AWD. I'll probably save the Jeep for more serious shit like really backwoods trails, but a lot of the access roads are a bit too much for a normal sedan.
>>14066543
>they seem to get really good MPG despite being AWD
That's because they're gutless turds. The Crosstrek has 146hp.
>>14066463
Snowplow kek
>>14066564
>That's because they're gutless turds.
It's funny you mention this, this is the exact same thing I said about my WRX outside of boost. The hp/tq ratings are so deceptive on boosted cars. It felt like my 2000 Hyundai unless I was at half throttle and boosting and raping my fuel economy.
Id still take a Subaru any day of the week if I had to deal with harsh winter conditions. I had Blizzaks on my WRX and it had grip for days even in the snow. I tried to throw it around a roundabout once and drift but the tires hooked up instantly and my slide ended in an abrupt jerking motion as my car straightened itself back up without even a slight fishtail.
>>14066564
>That's because they're gutless turds. The Crosstrek has 146hp.
fug
If it will do 0-60 in less than 10 seconds that's good enough for me though,
>>14066585
>Complaining about stock tune wrx being gutless
>Worrying about fuel mileage when it gets about 18-24mpg
>>14066600
It wasn't stock and it's still gutless, it has NO TOP END and won't move unless you floor it. 18-24mpg is terrible, the Mustang GT gets similar mpg while having twice the hp and 4 more cylinders.
>>14066585
It makes power because it's turbocharged, if you aren't making boost, of course it's going to be gutless.
>>14066616
It's got a TD04, a very small turbocharger, this is why people upgrade them. Lol, did you buy it without knowing these things?
>won't move unless you floor it, did you buy a ragged out wrx or something, myine does just fine in accelerating outside of boost. Shit you can hover at low throttle making like 5 pounds and it will pull nicely.
Let me guess you bought an AP and used off the shelf tunes.
>>14066628
>Subaru fanboy can't take that someone is criticizing his favorite car
>>14066649
I give 0 fucks, I'm just pointing out the stupidity of saying a turbocharged vehicle has no power outside of boost, AND THEN SAYING a wrx has no top end, not knowing a TD04 trails off after 5k.
>>14066681
>a turbocharged vehicle has no power outside of boost
In this case, that's pretty true.
>>14066681
>a wrx has no top end, not knowing a TD04 trails off after 5k
But if it trails off after 5k, then it doesn't have much top end.
I'm not seeing what's stupid here.
>>14066707
>Bitching about things that are obvious and easily researched. Mods easily fix the issue of power with a turbocharged vehicle.
>>14066681
Iv driven plenty of turbo and na cars, none of them felt as slow as my WRX did. That 268hp at the crank ends up being like fucking 210 at the wheels while at full boost. That puts you firmly in the territory of getting walked on by a fucking tuned Civic Si and you better hope that homo didn't somehow manage to procure a turbo too. That's so fucking depressing.
>>14066737
>mods easily fix the issue of power
Yeah, bro.. lets just replace that turbocharger at the cost of 2 thousand dollars. So simple.
>>14066741
>2000 dollars for a turbocharger
You joking mate? This is E85 at 21psi on a BNR 16g, you can buy it for 800 dollars.
Yeah you lose about 40 horsepower cause AWD. But no you won't be getting outrun by an Si.
>>14066773
>Just throw on a bigger turbo bro
Yeah, so it can be gutless for even longer until it spools and have to run shitty fuel on top of it? Sounds great.
Why the fuck do people buy turbo subarus again?
>>14066773
That, that's a pretty shitty powerband. Turbo lag all the way to 4k when a WRX redlines at 6.5k but can go to 7k briefly before it cuts fuel.
>>14066805
>>14066817
It makes 300 ft/lbs at 3k rpm a 4.6 Mustang makes 320 at 4500 rpm. This car pulled great for a street car. It not like it takes 20 seconds to go from 1k rpm to 6k, you know gearing and all.
Car would pull 60 in about 3 to 4 seconds.
It's 4am not gonna keep arguing opinions with ya'll.
>>14066843
>a 4.6 Mustang
That's a low-ass bar to set.
>>14065731
It makes me happy that you included 'stock iphone' because a jailbroken iphone beats an android any day of the week
>>14066855
When a 4 banger makes more torque than a v8 you've got problems. But you could keep on topic.
>>14066543
I live in Colorado as well, I use a ford ranger for most of my trips into the mountains.
It gets about 19mpg highway but it's super easy to just throw bikes/snowboards/backpacks into the bed instead of onto a rack or folding seats down and whatnot. Also, if you bring friends (and those friends aren't 6'5", so they can sit in the back seats) you can usually get them to pitch on gas.
>>14066315
>There's no strict way to define the difference between 4wd and awd
Because there is no difference. There are full time and part time AWD systems. That's it. There are a couple hybrid systems, but those are fairly uncommon these days.
>>14065674
>seriously what is better for winter?
a set of winter tyres
you don't need a four wheel drive for commuting and doing basic things
now fuck off
>>14066401
I think he actually does.
I got both.
My winter beater is fulltime AWD, but also has low range and locking center and rear diffs. Ain't no stoppin this train.
>>14065674
>seriously what is better for winter?
Whichever has the better winter tires.
>>14065674
In casual use on the roads even a viscous awd with no brains or locks is sufficient.
>>14067686
What car?
>>14067693
Toyota FJ cruiser with 6speed manual.
Only the manuals are AWD/4WD. Autos are RWD/4x4.
>>14067700
I didn't know the manual FJCs had full time AWD. I thought it was just part time.
>>14065674
>4X4 VS AWD
Not this fake division shit again.
>>14067704
I wasn't aware either until I went to buy one. It was a very pleasant surprise. Too bad very few people out there got 'em with the stick.
>>14065717
>His DD doesn't have a locking rear diff
Why are you even on this board? Be gone, pleb.
>>14066018
as long as traction is low enough to allow wheel slip you can drive with 4x4 as long as you want. diff locks are rare as fuck these days so there's really no point even talking about them. LSD on the rear is more common and is a non issue for this argument
>>14065947
I just drove over 50 miles at 50 MPH with 4x4 engaged on a snow covered highway in my 4x4 1500 Silverado.
I did it all the time in my old truck.
I do it all the time in my new truck.
I have NEVER had a 4x4 or tcase related issue, ever.
Would I do it on dry pavement? Fuck no.
In the snow / ice? It's perfectly okay.
>>14066105
I'm not the guy you're replying to but I just wanted to say that you are a fucking retard.
Go drink bleach.
>>14066018
Pajero has always had a rear locker
>>14067761
it's a good idea to engage it every month or so during summer so keep things lubed up. as long as you're driving straight it's not an issue
>>14067757
>diff locks are rare as fuck these days
They're more common now than ever, what the fuck are you smoking?
>>14067779
LSD yes but not lockers. generally don't see lockers outside shit built for offroad
>>14067778
Summer time 4x4 = Mud bogging
Winter time 4x4 = Snow bogging
There are a few people in this thread spouting bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.
Jesus /o/ why are you so fucking stupid.
This thread hurt to read.
>>14067785
>LSD yes but not lockers
What? I can name like 8 cars that have available lockers from the factory. Where it used to be none.
>>14067792
Because no one on /o/ actually knows anything about cars, that's why they come up with convoluted definitions. So they can think they know something.
>>14067785
Since 2004 every Silverado / Sierra Z71 has a locking diff.
Do you know how many of those there are on the road? A fucking lot.
So yes it is common.
>>14067796
>8 cars
>out of thousands
8 fucking cars doesn't make something common. also most people don't even know what the fuck a locker is so they would never even bother ordering something with lockers
>>14067807
only on the rear which is fucking pointless. also again that's a single brand and it's a $500 option most people would never buy
>>14067812
There are really THOUSANDS of models of car being sold? Even so, how isn't that more common? It's not rarer than it used to be. G-Wagen, Pajero, Pajero Sport/L200, Land Cruiser, Patrol, Ford pickups, Ram Power Wagon, 4Runner, Tacoma, I think the new Colorado, Frontier, Xterra, Discovery 3 and 4, etc. There's lots of cars with locking differentials.
>>14067821
>only on the rear which is fucking pointless
Oh I get it, you don't know anything. Well that figures considering this is /o/.
I had a 2005 liberty and while in PA, my transfer case shifter broke and it got stuck in 4hi. I drove 800 miles of highway at 60mph in 4hi without doing any damage to the thing on dry pavement
>>14067833
Probably because you got stuck in the full time high range 4WD mode.
>>14067833
Clearly the damage was already done.
>>14067851
Just a cable slip from shifting it while not moving fast enough. I didnt have the tools/knowhow to fix it at the time
>>14067828
and how many of those sold have lockers? maybe 1% at most
>>14067830
rear LSD with front lockers is the best. rear locker is just fucking stupid unless you're offroading or rock crawling a lot
>>14065674
Why not both?
>>14065674
Neither. 4x4 isn't a magic winter fix all. Neither is awd. Stop making your shit west coast threads and fuck off cuck
>>14067867
Probably close to 35 or 40%
>>14067867
>and how many of those sold have lockers?
G-Wagen is 100% :^). But it doesn't matter, because you're just wrong. Lockers aren't rare. I don't have a hard time looking for cars with lockers.
>rear LSD with front lockers is the best.
God no.
>rear locker is just fucking stupid unless you're offroading
Nigga what? That's what a locking diff is for, when else would you use it?
>>14067889
nah i doubt that. most people don't even take the LSD option so i doubt many are getting lockers. there's always going to be regional biases and the people you know might be more likely to get it so you'll think something is more common then it really is
>>14067894
Anon I can tell you're smart.
You're arguing with a dense retard.
It's like yelling at a wall, you can't win.
The fact that I own and DD a vehicle with selectable 4x4 and rear locker probably upsets him greatly.
>>14067894
>when else would you use it
snow/ice but that's exactly my point. the vast majority of people wouldn't use it so why the fuck would they pay for the option? the number of people offroading is so fucking small you can basically ignore them. that's also the biggest reason LSD is better for 99.9% of people since it's always there with no need to manually activate it which also makes it far better for every day winter driving
>>14067914
What does anything you are saying have to do with whether or not lockers are rare today? Why are you ignoring the simple fact that many more vehicles are available with locking differentials today than ever before?
>>14067918
it doesn't but it also doesn't change the fact they are rare. they might be more common then say 20 years ago but a slight increase does not make something suddenly not rare
>>14067914
>he doesn't know about automatic lockers
Have you drank that bleach yet?
>>14065674
Winter tires matter more than anything else. AWD gives you the ability to accelerate since you can apply power to all 4 wheels. Same with 4wd. That's all they offer though.
Tires improve everything. Acceleration, braking, handling, you name it. I'd rather be in a rear wheel drive shitbox with a full set of winter tires, or better yet, studded winter tires, than a subaru with summer tires. The ideal scenario is an AWD car with winter tires.
>>14065674
Fucking christ. No one has really answered your question yet so here is goes.
4X4: front engined, rear wheel drive with a transfer case. This means that normally, it's rwd, but when you put it in 4x4, you engage the transfer case, which isnt a differential. It just locks the front and rear axles together. This means that even if one entire axle is on ice and slipping, the other axle gets 50% of the power, eg. the front and rear wheels turn at the same speed always. If you have locking front and rear diffs, you can lock the entire system and all wheels turn at the same speed, which means that theoretically if 3 wheels don't have traction, the remaining one can pull you out. However, if you turn on dry pavement, the system starts to bind from the rotational differences between the axles. This will make the vehicle start bouncing, as the wheels take up the excess energy and release it by slipping. Finally, if you keep turning, the transfer case will break, and ruin your 4x4. So its the best for actually bad conditions, like really snowy/icy, and off road, but you have to know what you're doing with it.
AWD: Generally, any system with three differentials, a front, rear, and center. In the best systems, Audi's with a torsen and manual Subaru's(although the older automatic VDC outbacks had this too), the system splits the power 50/50 front/rear, with the ability to move power around where it's needed. So, if the rear wheels start slipping, the center diff locks up and sends power to the front wheels. Now offroad, where you are excessively relying on the differentials to send power to two or even one wheel, they are going to heat up, or slip, or break, because they aren't designed for that. What they are designed for is slightly changing conditions, for example snowy roads.
In conclusion, it depends. But if you're driving on the road, and you encounter icy parts and dry parts frequently, awd might be best.
>>14067689
>>14066346
This!
>>14067944
Oh and also this >>14067942
Ya the only thing that keeps you out of ditches are tires. AWD and 4X4 just keep you from getting stuck really.
>>14067931
Automatic lockers suck.
>>14067944
God you are a moron.
>>14066346
Intelligence > Winter tires > Drivetrain
A guy on all-seasons that gives himself a dozen car lengths of space will do better than someone on winters who rides your bumper.
>>14067959
Thanks for the insight, Dr. Professor cheif mechanic
>>14067994
Depends on surface conditions. We get solid sheet ice in the far north and you won't even make it up a gentle grade on all seasons. Or as we call them, summer tires.
>>14067994
Until you drive in an area where you won't even get going with all-seasons
I tend to keep "intelligence" and "tires" within the same concept... part of intelligent driving is being properly outfitted for the terrain
>>14068205
This is the only other who knows about serious winters.
>>14068191
You're welcome, King Emperor Moron.
