what would happen if you put that blue 100 octane aviation gasoline in a normal car or bike engine?
>>14056696
Knock resistance. But it also contains lead, so it might do something screwey to modern engines not designed for it.
apart from the lead, not much. i feed my car 99 octane so that should not be an issue
Wouldn't lead contaminate your oxygen sensors and catalyst?
>>14056696
The lead will fuck your catalytic converter and lacks upper cylinder lubricant. On a side note, I run 110 AvBlu with a UCL additive in one of my older cars. Not even 100 octane unleaded can keep the knocking under control in the top end when it is tuned for peak power. Actually had to change head gaskets to slightly lower the CR along with running the largest jet that was available for an 850 CFM in the secondary to get it to run under 3500 RPM without any type of knock.
Tl;dr if you don't have cats, try some with a ucl addative.
>>14057224
>lacks upper cylinder lubricant
You have that backwards, its unleaded that lacks lubricant and needs hardened valve seats.
Lead aside, you want to run the worst fuel your car can use without knocking (or causing the knock sensors to retard timing). If your car will run on 89, run it on that. 91, run it on that. Using better fuel than you need will actually cause it to make less power (provided the fuel doesn't have oxygenators / on board oxygen molecules, which is banned in most racing).
>>14057278
No son. AvGas hasn't had UCL for decades to avoid its use in street engines. Some form of UCL is required for cars without hardened valve seats so they do not degrade as quickly. I still wouldn't run AvBlu in any newer car so my point stands.
These ones are designed to take it and work
Sunoco GT100. Available at the pump. Check for your nearest location, it's all over.
>>14057278
Tetraethyl Lead was the anti knock agent and valve lubrication.
>>14057343
Those run on Jet, Diesel and probably fuel oil. Not gasoline.
>>14057343
Those are diesel engined bikes that use JP8, you fucking moron.
>>14057475
I'm not sure what you're getting at, but JP8 is jet fuel.
>>14057343
I'm not into bikes in the slightest. Why do I want this
>>14056696
Your car will fly. Why else do you thing its called aviation fuel?
It will make less power because the higher the octane the lower the btu and slower burn rate.
>>14057343
wish these weren't made in fucking India now. Hayes Diversified Technologies in case anyone's curious. diesel KLR650.
>>14057692
This is true, but normally you would only go to such a high octane fuel because of the knock resistance on a high compression engine. The same applies to LPG and kerosene (basis of jet fuel iydk)
>>14057473
True, however I didn't read the OP thoroughly.
>>14057665
'Cause they're cool?
>>14057702
Thanks, this is true. There are also diesel conversion kits for regular KLR use IIRC
Aviation fuel has reversed gravity so it actually pulls UP on the plane. your car would just float into the sky
Didn't you know this?
>>14057404
Thats a California thing...
>>14057598
I'm getting at JP8 not being gasoline.
If we ignore the fact that leaded fuel will fuck your car.
The only bad side effect would be reduced torque, from poor ignition timing.
>>14056696
It'll get fucked by the lead. You're better off just converting to alcohol. E85 is roughly the same cost as regular gasoline in terms of price per mile, but that's subsidized by your taxes. Methanol is about 10% cheaper if you buy it in bulk. Either one will work just as well as 105 octane gasoline, you just have to make your fuel system flow 30% more for ethanol or twice as much for methanol. Plus, you'll get a 5-10% increase in power vs 105 AKI gasoline and they'll keep your exhaust valves sparkly clean.
>>14058415
>roughly same cast as gasoline
Nah, it's more expensive. At least currently.
The average price spread is 15% but it's 40% less efficient.
So price per mile it's around ~15% more expensive.
When oil price goes up the spread will be higher, but the spread needs to be 40% to be equal price per mile.
>>14058482
The stoichiometric ratio for E85 is 9.7:1, compared to 14.7:1 for gasoline. That means you would use 34% more E85, except that E85 is significantly more thermally efficient for various reasons, so the actual difference in fuel usage per mile is around 20-25%. E85 is usually around 15-20% cheaper than regular, so it's a little more expensive than 87 per mile, but typically cheaper than 89 or 91.
>>14058542
Oh, and there's still the part where it's 105 AKI, and because of the higher efficiency, you can make even more power than you could on 105 AKI gasoline.
>>14058542
It's 9:1 not 9.7:1
And how can a fuel be more thermal efficient.. the fuel is creating the heat to be efficiently used by the engine not the other way around.
Ethanol has less potential energy than gasoline. That's why it needs more oxygen. That's why it's 9:1
The efficiency comes from running higher compression. The same reason turbos are more efficient than n/a.
The fuel itself is not more efficient.
>>14058607
Pure ethanol is 9:1. E85 is 9.7 for summer mix and something like 10.1 for winter mix. The increase in efficiency for alcohol has to do with flame front propagation and adiabatic combustion temperature. You get lower combustion temperatures at the same cylinder pressure.
>>14056696
my military fag mate actually put helicopter fuel (from a post-ussr MI-17) in his e46 318ci 1.9 petrol 4cyl. For like 10 minutes the engine was running great, actually much too great until it stopped. Cant remember what exactly broke but his engine was completely fucked, i think he replaced literally everything in the engine head.
>>14058764
That would be similar to putting diesel fuel in a petrol car.
At my old job they hired a pilot every season to fly around in a small Piper scaring off birds, end of the season there were a few 44 Gallon drums of the octane laying around that had to be used up for some reason. The boss let every worker go to the airstrip and fill their cars up with the stuff and far as I know nobody had any issues. Every one had cars from 2008 Mondeos to 80's Camrys.
>>14057290
>>14057404
so do 110 RON additive laden race fuels like Sunoco or VP Racing somehow weasel extra power from engines on their own or is it just because they allow for way higher compression ratios?
its hard to find information about it that isn't manufacturer hype, anecdotal evidence or blatant shilling
>>14058966
Compression ratios, timing adjustment, and so on.
>>14058966
Just the knock resistance, although there are self-oxidizing race fuels out there for crazy power, like nitromethane.
>>14058966
You would have to tune your car to take advantage of the higher octane fuel. I tried it, it works. The gains are pretty low on an all stock car however.
>airplane gas still contains fucking lead
>planes, jets and ships dont have any sort of efficiency or pollution standards or reducers
>but lets keep cucking cars
JUST
Your car will go sanic fast and you'll spin 4th gear
>>14058607
>Ethanol has less potential energy than gasoline. That's why it needs more oxygen. That's why it's 9:1
Learn how ratios work dumbass
9:1 is Less air than 14.7:1
>>14058966
No, the knock resistance allows higher compression/better timing before knock.
In fact it contains less energy per litre than pure gasoline and if you kept the tune the same you would see LESS hp on high mixed with octane boosters.
Your state's revenue office finds out and fines you thousands of dollars for using fuel not taxed for road use.
Same thing will happen if they catch you using home heating oil in your diesel truck.
>>14059270
Ships are far more efficient than cars to begin with, you dullard.
>>14056696
Why do planes use such outdated technologies?
I mean they should have all switched to s/c rotary engines a while ago...
>>14060140
The aviation industry is filled with so much legislation and fees that it's near impossible for it to progress.
>>14060140
>s/c rotary
>not outdated
ww2 called they want their tech back
have you heard of a little thing called the jet turbine engine?
>>14060150
General Aviation is choked to death by liability concerns.
Which is why even the cheapest, smallest, simplest airplanes now cost as much as a house. Despite being about as difficult to make as a Caterhm7 kit.
>>14058607
Is this b8?
>>14060200
hes right? its not more efficient. its significantly less efficient.
>>14057341
? I doubt they worry too much about Street engines. Just don't need UCL for the plane engines it's meant for
>>14058889
maybe, only except the engine was running great before fucking up, there was actually a notable performance increase
>>14058764
Kerosene is almost identical to diesel. So he out diesel in his car.
It didn't run great, not at all. It ran just as normal until it sucked the diesel in, and then it stopped. Your friend is an idiot
>>14060207
lolno he's very wrong
>>14060248
>>14060207
>>14058607
what in the fuck am i reading.
ITT people disagreeing over the meaning of efficiency
>>14058607
ebin shitpost
>Friend drives to airport
>Fills his camry with airplane fuel
>Goes hooning in the middle of nowhere
>Nothing happens
It's not really a problem until you start looking at newer vehicles which would probably be fouled up pretty good due to the lead content.
>>14056696
Run only it in my beartracker. Cuts down on knock, extremely long shelf life, cheap in comparison to vp or sunoco equivalents, no ethanol bullshit, smells good af.
>>14056700
>>14057158
>>14057177
>Lead
>bad
I thought lead was good for cars and the only reason it was removed was because "muh health and environment"
>>14061155
Not ment for cat converters.
>>14061159
Your car doesn't need a cat converter though, removing it very slightly increases efficiency. Couple that with leaded gas and your car just gained an extra year or two of life.
>>14061155
It's bad if you want top performance. Because lead doesn't help combustion. Otherwise lead clogs the catalytic converter very fast.
>>14061155
Lead used to be good for cars because it helped create better seals when engines weren't as finely machined in production. it prevented knock.
Now that engines have longer lasting gaskets and piston rings lead is not needed. also Catalytic converters were designed on modern cars to deal with different exhaust that comes from unleaded gasoline.
one downside is that unleaded gas has a much shorter shelf life than leaded.
>>14061186
It's the ethanol that ruins gasoline shelf life.
>>14058482
It's a lot more than that. Where I live 87 octane is going for about 1,80/gal. 100LL is 4.75.
>>14056696
>what would happen if you put that blue 100 octane aviation gasoline in a normal car or bike engine?
It can't melt steel beams desu senpai.
>>14061392
>100LL
>Not Jet A-1
>Pls go
>>14061493
Jet a1 is diesel mate
There's probably like 3 people on this board that need 100 octane. Probably less.
>>14061628
I just need the lead, actually :-(
>>14060248
>>14060284
You people are retarded.
Why does it take 40% more fuel to make the same power from ethanol all else equal?
Because it's less efficient. Because it has less potential energy per volume.
Literally the end of discussion.
Altering your engine for use of a naturally higher octane fuel doesn't mean that the higher octane fuel is more efficient.
>>14056700
So planes are spreading lead everywhere??
>>14057923
>There are also diesel conversion kits for regular KLR use IIRC
Really?
>>14061682
Yes their emissions are very bad.
Protip: Lead in fuel act is an inhibitor and increases knock resistance aka. gives your fuel higher octane-rating.
Pic unrelated.
>>14061682
Only piston engined ones.
>>14061879
Thanks for bumping the thread to restate something that was said in the very first reply.
>>14061682
Yep.
There's a story of a large weed farm near an airport being found specifically because weed is so good at removing air contaminants, the air from the surrounding airport was suspiciously too clean.
>>14060140
There are planes flying right now with engines from the 50s.
Despite the fact that a fucking LS would be better in every single way, you can't use one because the FAA are a bunch of boring whiny cunts who ruin any hope of any real innovation with their bullshit.
>>14061628
>need
nigga nobody NEEDS anything.
If i didn't have easy access to E85 my bitch ass would be running avgas, life only begins at 400rwkw.
>>14061950
LS probably wouldn't be that good. V8 kit planes run reduction boxes and other stuff so the engine doesn't asplode.
I agree that a modern aircraft engine would be cool but no one wants the liability.
>>14061695
I'm pretty sure. Hayes something of sorts.
>>14058026
I get it all the time in SE PA for my trackday bikes.
>>14061985
Heaps of LS planes around. Apparently quite a good engine for aero use with a dry sump.
>>14061657
I love it when people appear so absolutely certain in their correctness and well read but are completely wrong and as thick as shit
>>14058966
Higher octane also has a higher a detonation point so if you're engine isn't tuned for that octane you will foul your cylinders with unburned gas.
>>14059715
Do they go around personally sniffng every fuel tank or something?
>>14062979
What the actual shit? Who the fuck runs a turbo DIRECTLY into the intake? That air is going to be retardedly hot.
>>14063021
You're a fucking dumbass, dude.
Every thread you reply in it's usually something utterly wrong or simplistic.
Show contradicting evidence, I'll wait.
>>14061682
BAN PLANES NOW
>>14063304
On a 70 degree day, that's 50f at 4,000ft with 10psia
assuming 10lbs of boost and 75% compressor efficiency
(2^0.283 - 1)*(10 + 273.15)/0.75 = 80c temp change + 10c ambient = 90c intake temp (190f)
But, they are probably running water injection and they are also running 100LL
>>14063310
friendly reminder no one agrees with you except you, and you're retarded so only count for half a vote
>>14061950
>LS
>IN AN AIRPLANE
>FLYING WITH AN LS
>LS ENGINE RUNNING AT FULL THROTTLE FOR HOURS AND NOT BLOWING UP
>L
>FUCKING
>S
>IN THE GODDAMN SKY
AHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAH
ENJOY YOUR LIMP MODE IN THE AIR
AHAWHAWHWHAWHAWHHAWHWAHHAWHAWHHWAHHAWHAWHWHHWHAWHWHHWHWHWHAWHHAWHAWH
>>14063574
Nice evidence.
>He thinks a fuel can be "thermally efficient"
>He thinks ethanol has more thermal capacity than gasoline
You're a joke, mate.
>>14063584
>implying the LS runs at full throttle at ANY point other than takeoff
okie dokie
>>14063602
tell us more kid :^)
>swapping in an LS1 in a plane
I don't know why but now I can't get the picture of a Corvette taking off and flying like a plane out of my head
>>14061657
>Why does it take 40% more fuel to make the same power from ethanol all else equal?
>Because it's less efficient. Because it has less potential energy per volume
Efficiency is how much of the chemical potential energy you can turn into mechanical energy.
>>14063725
There's tons of LS1 planes
>>14057468
can you buy TE lead and Benzene as additives?
>>14065102
he probably dropped out of high school tbf
>>14065102
That's the engines job, not the fuels job.
e85 isn't more efficient in any fucking sense of the word. Get that through your retarded fucking head.
>>14066212
>being this assmad
>>14066234
>I was only pretending to be retarded
Epic troll my man
>>14066266
what are you on about now anon?
>>14056696
Seized or blown engine probably, the lead in it will proper fuck up a modern engine
>>14059270
The EPA is actually cracking down on aircraft and is mandating a leadless AVGas in the next couple years, some of them are already usable
>>14061936
jet engine ones too
>>14057343
Get back to your containment thread, fagg0r
>>14066499
>The possibility of environmental legislation banning the use of leaded avgas, and the lack of a replacement fuel with similar performance, has left aircraft designers and pilot's organizations searching for alternative engines for use in small aircraft.[33] As a result, a few aircraft engine manufacturers, most notably Thielert and Austro Engine, have begun offering aircraft diesel engines which run on jet fuel.
>>14063290
basically yes
>>14063290
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_dyes
>>14063584
They've been tested in experimentals and work quite well. The requirements are very similar to boat engines, and most of the new high horsepower Mercury Marine V8s are LS based.
>>14057177
>having a catalyst
Is you had a 60s car that does NOT have hardened valve seats, how would it perform on 100LL?
>>14056696
Catalytic converter becomes kill
>>14068390
It's be fine. I'd still add a UCL to boost the lubricating properties. However, unless you are knocking, no advantage to 110 AvBlu.
