Just in terms of stock performance naturally aspirated. Which is better- the na or the nb?
Everytime I look at the nb's chassis and wheelbase compared to the na, it never looks quite as balanced proportionally.
> naturally aspirated
> performance
pick 1
>>14036661
Don't do it man.
I regret every minute of buying a miata
>>14036667
this
RWD was not fucking worth it
i hate the convertible
i hate not having space
it doesn't even perform that well
i drove my friend's "Fwd econobox"
it handled way fucking better and had more power to it
>>14036663
>pick 1
uh, balance?
>>14036667
>>14036669
I-is this a joke? I've been cross shopping hard with an mr2 and less so with s2k's even though there are a lot of good ones in Atlanta.
The first three years of the NB are almost identical to the NA. Only with the facelift did they incorporate considerable chassis strengthening, hence the higher weight from 2001 onwards.
>>14036674
Why does the wheelbase look longer then?
>>14036661
desu a stock e36/e46 hell, even an e30 318i both outhandles and outruns the miata.
Miata is the ultimate memecar cause it has so much potential, and is a great starter car in videogames. That's about it.
>>14036688
I want a lightweight FR sub 2800 lbs. Perferably around 24-2600.
>>14036681
Possibly because of the length of the fender or the length of the door. The actual factual difference in wheelbase is 5 mm or 0.2 inches.
>>14036708
E36 318is
There you go babygirl~~
140hp/129 lb/ft
2734 lbs w/o driver.
>>14036747
>>14036663
>>14036673
dont fucking bother
the miata engine doesnt make any power N/A
and ignore that faggot he is some fucking N/A z31 prelude and other bullshit shitposter
>>14036776
shut the fuck up i dont even know what you're talking about
i bought the miata as my first car, really regret it
>>14036747
>E36 318is
I will possibly consider this now, huh
>>14036764
>muh weeb cars!
>>14036798
bmw is too ugly and expensive to be honest
>>14036793
Where is all the weight on this BMW coming from if it's a late 90's 4cyl? I don't get it?
>>14036800
your mum is too ugly and expensive to be honest
>>14036764
Except that it demolished the competition at the time it was new.
This was the car that really gave BMW its reputation as a great handling automobile.
>>14036800
This.
Also weighs 800lbs more than a miata and only has like 8hp more
Not to mention being far less reliable
>>14036814
oh dont take my post as miata shilling
that car is completely mediocre too
>>14036812
>at the time it was new
About a 1000 miles in it was in need of service.
>comparing M3 to a miata
>>14036807
BMW likes sound insulation, lot of it. Also the engine is an iron block, also it comes with lots of optional equipment. It's also 5 comfortable seats.
>>14036822
>sound insulation
>4 piece crock pot banger
Is there a feasible way to do weight reduction on the coupe without losing the backseats or having the interior be shit?
What is the reliability on beems iron 4s even? Can the options be removed, what were they even (never seen the inside of bmw or options list)?
>>14036821
>318is
>m3
You might've had a valid point if you were able to read.
All I'm saying is that it's an option, sure you gain some pounds, but you also gain a lot of torque and a few horsepower. (24hp/40nm).
You also actually have space to fit 5 people in it, plus an actual roof if you live where it's cold.
>>14036808
at least she isnt cheap like yours cunt
>>14036661
Have a real answer.
The 90-93 NA's have a 1.6L that makes just a hair north of 100 hp. It's more rev happy since it has a much lighter flywheel but it's still pretty pokey.
94-97 NA's have the 1.8L with a decent bump up to about 133. Quick, but not fast. Needs to be revved all the way out to redline so don't be that fag who shifts at 4k even when trying to go fast.
99-00(?) NB's have an updated head and a VICS system (variable intake runners) which gives them another appreciable bump up to 140. Overall though it's the least desirable NB
01-05 NB's have VVT instead of VICS which makes a HUGE difference in terms of low end torque. Peak power is hardly affected, but around town and at low revs you feel a lot more of a bump in available torque.
I know you said naturally aspirated but the Mazdaspeed turbos- if you can find them- have a few pain in the ass flaws that hamper how awesome they could be. Fix those flaws, though, and it's a marvelous little setup that really shines.
>>14036835
>318is
You posted a picture of an m3
>some pounds
800 of them
>few HP. About 8hp. Less if its a 2001 miata
>live where its cold
Heaters exist
>5 people
Fuck all that
>>14036846
op here
This is pretty much how I feel about the 318. I wonder how easy and manageable weight loss would be though.
>>14036840
This is excellent info. What problem did the factory turbo even have?
>>14036831
Well for options there's a lot of electrical stuff. Heated mirrors, heated seats, electric seats, Harman Kardon HiFi with an 8 disc CD changer in the boot, electric sunroof etc. etc.
As for removing weight without removing seats there's only sound dampening, which would make every little pebble sound like death inside the car. Lightweight exhaust and battery, remove the AC, lightweight wheels, and maybe lightweight brakes.
Also you get all kinds of turbos and superchargers for the engine if you want power.
>>14036846
>remove interior
>now have a much stronger chassis than a miata and better engine + handling
>still way more comfy
Get over yourself
And fuck two seaters that only fit two people. Not very takumi at all
>>14036854
If you had to guess. What would the car weight without any options or backseats in coupe configuration?
>>14036846
s versions and M3's had the same styling bruh.
Could also go for a 318ti if you wanna Josh it up. They're like 2600lbs iirc
>>14036855
You can always add a roof and stiffen with sways which is cheap
>>14036863
I'll do some math for you, and find some numbers. Hold on for a minute.
>>14036855
>two seaters that only fit two people
As apposed to????
>>14036868
>s versions and M3's had the same styling bruh
Filename
Go look at it
>>14036863
Now I did some reasonable mods (in my head) that won't cost too much, and will impact the weight the most. Rear seats will be around 22 lbs, both front seats to some more lightweight Sparco/Cobra seats would save 30 some lbs each.
Remove all the glass and get poly windows, that's about 100lbs right there. Just for the glass alone.
Spare tire + tools, that's another 60+ lbs.
So yeah, that's about what I would do if I DD'd it, including some lightweight wheels, that'd probably save you another 50 lbs.
>>14036882
Also look at this, which is an 318is
>>14036893
Moron
>>14036903
What does the filename prove? They look identical except for one more button in the interior, and under the hood.
Really find something better to use as an argument or riggedy reck yourself.
>>14036667
Yeah.
I didn't like my mx5 when I got it either.
But I replaced the stock shocks and springs, put in a DIYPnP MS, and got a better wheel and tyre combo.
Now its a fucking hoot to drive. Handles like its on rails and still has good ride comfort.
Turbo, roll bar, anti roll bars and better tyres will be next upgrades.
Should be awesome on track
>>14036889
>DD
>poly windows
>>14036919
I don't track though. I thought it would be a fun DD.
I have more fun driving my retarded fwd corolla.
>>14036922
>having to open the windows when you kept the AC
Obviously not the windshield as you'd die from light scattering all over in the scratches
>>14036889
>>14036930
So you're saying I'd be better off with an FRS/BRZ
Man, luxury cars are heavy. Tis a shame.
>>14036948
Well obviously you would, you'd have a warranty too.
But the prices aren't exactly compareable.
>>14036814
what are you smoking it makes 40-60 more hp than an NA miata.
>>14036962
This is true. I'm looking in Georgia, but can't find a decent coupe 318. 325's are actually cheaper wtf?
Also, wtf is this this shit in the mr2 spyder?!?!
>>14036982
Well 325's are heavier, but again has twice the power of a miats. Make of that what you want.
>>14036982
It's a sequential you fig newton
>>14036991
I thought mr's always came in geared box format?
Huh
>>14036990
I drive in the mountains a lot. I don't want weight to be an issue on corners.
>>14037001
The 325's weight is nothing you couldn't handle. It'd do corners a lot faster and flatter than the miata
>>14036853
>What problem did the factory turbo even have?
Mostly periphery shit. Intercooler too small, restrictive exhaust, and boost piping / diverter valve that was prone to failure.
With aftermarket parts in place of that stuff, supposedly you're already in the neighborhood of 200hp (at the WHEELS) on a bone stock turbo. In a car that light, plenty of giggles to be had. Again though, if you're looking for stoplight drags you're in the wrong place altogether.
>>14036925
Are you by chance retarded?
Why the fuck did you think a 20 year old 2 seater convertible would be a good dd?
I guess you must be young, and or stupid.
>>14037061
Only retard here is you
ITT: a proof that /o/ went to absolute shit.
Just a one fucking post with an actual answer. ONE. And the rest is just shitposting. Special mention goes to that retard who suggested a fucking 318 as an alternative. holy fucking shit i'm done with this place
>>14037201
e36 318is is a better car than the NA miata.. objectively in every possible meaningful metric.
>>14037198
Hey man......fuck you
>>14037201
Go back to jalopnik
News flash
Rwd is not always the best
The Miata is an overhyped piece of shot that is beaten in its class by more practical cars
>>14037254
We get it, you're a benchracer who has no idea what he's talking about
>>14037273
>miatashill
>accusses others of bench racing
>>14037315
>doesn't agree with me
>must be shill
gb2 >>>/r/eddit
>>14037329
Fuck you dude
How are we supposed to discuss cars if every time your feelings get hurt you just scream bench racing because he has facts and you just have buyers remorse.
Nobody here knows shit, you can see it in the FF vs FR debates , and then the children that browse take the misinformation as fact and scream about RWD all day.
>>14037231
Except it's not
>>14037372
let's see.
it has a better ride (longer wheelbase), it has better brakes, it has better power to weight, it has 4 comfortably usable seats, it's quieter, it has more trunk space, it has an lsd.
it's better in every way. as a "performance" car and as a daily.
hence why the miata was significantly cheaper even though they were manufactured in the same year.
>b-but muh 318i is better than the miats how could this be
the serie 3 doesnt vene have double wishbones
>>14037430
neither did the wrc winning wrx sti
>>14037430
>this option was better in a game I played so it must be better IRL too
For practical reasons, it's not. Machphersons do just as well.
'95 Miata skidpad: 0.90 g
'95 E36 skidpad: 0.91g even without double wishbones, and only 10mm wider tires. It's also nearly 1000 lbs heavier.
>>14037443
because macpherson is the best for rally, not double wishbones
>>14037471
>skidpad come on now, we are not arguing stock cars, literally no bmw e36 has better skidpad than full autocross miatas
>>14037495
Stop shitting on double wishbone
>>14037495
>got owned by two separate posters.
>changes goal posts
>now wants to compare track car builds
lol okay kid, thread hidden
>>14037495
>>>we are not arguing stock cars
And goalposts were moved to the other side of the court.
>>14036673
miata vs mr2: i have an NA and used to have an NA SW20. miata is 1000x better to drive. much more forgiving handling, much more accessible limits. the car tells you everything that is happening and fucking eggs you on to have more fun. if you exceed the limits, you can easily get it back under control. love driving the miata.
>>14037539
also, like, don't rely on /o/ to tell you what to do. half of us fuck our miatas' tailpipes every day and the other half still say "fag" and it's 20fucking15. just go out there and drive the fucking cars and you'll feel the differences.
every time you've heard some fag rattling on about how good a miata is and how you just have to drive it to get it......that's actually true. on paper it's not a fast car or even a very good car. in practice i have never had more fun driving anything else on the street, and every miata i've driven has been bone stock. it's just good fucking engineering, and you can't bench race that.
>>14037422
>better power to weight
No its worse.
Wheel base isn't a factor
Seats aren't a factor.
Miata has LSD
Miata has great brakes for its weight.
You're just dumb.
Who cares about trunk space and noise.
It's a sports car.
>>14037600
>it's not a factor because I say so
>ad hominen
>IT'S A SPORTS CAR BRO I DON'T EVEN WANT TO FIT A BAG OF GROCERIES IN IT. NOT ONE
>>14037563
>>14037539
mr2 I was looking is the 3rd gen
I honestly think I'll end up with either a miat turbo or s2k, but it was worth a shot to find something else
>>14037600
>every area my favourite car loses in is now irrelevant!
>>14037600
The miata's stock brakes are actually tiny fades really quickly downhill.
>>14037619
>didn't dispute anything I said
I grocery shop all the time with my miata.
It's not a big deal.
Don't be mad that a miata is better than a bmw
>>14037628
I don't even like miatas. It's by far not my favorite car.
Stay mad though
>>14037600
Can you not do simple math?
NA miata is 25lbs per hp
318is is 20lbs per hp.
>Wheel base isn't a factor
>Seats arent a factor
>who cares about trunk space and noise
Fucking lol
The 318is outclasses the miata in every possible way.
Just accept it and move on you dumb weeb.
>>14037201
Did you even read how it started. Some anon suggested that an E30 318i ouhandles and outruns an Miata, which is actually true. An old 3 series BMW is a sensible choice because of more comfort, better performance and practicality, and parts are dirt cheap on the older BMWs anyway, and they are very easy to work on. oh and I am talking about BMWs until E36, maybe E46.
>>14037640
Alot of cars outclass miata
Even FF
>>14037640
>3000 lbs 138 HP.
Is better than
>2300 lbs 142 HP
I'm done with your dumbass
>>14037643
>E30 318i ouhandles and outruns an Miata, which is actually true.
Except it's not
>>14037640
>MUH BASE MODEL BMW
>MUH DRIVING PLEASURE
>MUH ELLIOT RODGERS
he is even implying long wheelbase is better as if he needed stability at 200 mph turns
>>14037673
op here
I feel your pain anon. No one seems to understand how important weight is, especially for where and how I'll be driving the car.
I would take a 318 to a track, but not a ridiculous mountain.
>>14037673
It's either 129 or 114 hp for the miatas.
142 hp is from the 2000's BP-4W.
>>14037702
Even still
>2100lbs 129hp
Still beats out the shitty bmw
>>14037673
On no plane of existence does an US market NA miata make 140hp ROFL
good luck finding an na 1.8 friendo
>>14037696
Well then here's the conundrum:
The Miats is really slow (painfully so) uphill, and the brakes are miniscule so they overheat on the way down.
The Miata is not a mountain eat, you should check some Honda Integras instead
All these weight and hp arguments here and all I can think is "a 13 year old stock maxima with a manual is faster than every stock miata every built"
>>14037706
>good luck finding an na 1.8 friendo
are those rare? they're pretty fucking common around here, and the price disparity to the 1.6s is way more dependent on condition than engine
>>14037706
>na 1.8
Yeah that's the NA8
I own one dumbass
>>14037706
>good luck finding an na 1.8 friendo
What? NA8s were in production for longer than NA6s.
>>14037705
Bruh this isn't some pawn shop show on History channel, find a weight and stick with it. Is it 2300 or 2100?
spec e30s decimate spec miatas.
look at the scca laptimes from every track.
hell my 1972 bmw weighs less and makes more hp than an na miata.
absolute kek
>>14036831
Just changing out the front seats for recaros will give 100Lbs of weight loss.
stock ones have like 2 motors each.
>>14037711
>every
I mean, maybe if you're not the one sitting in the drivers seat of the maxima yeah.
>>14037727
Yes.
Everyone who has ever driven an atmo mx5 will tell you its slow as fuck.
They need a turbo.
>>14037727
Spec Miata isn't really a good comparison, since they're slower than stock Miatas on the same tires. The spec suspension is pants-on-head retarded.
Why not get something with a V8 and not bother with choosing between a Japanese piece of shit or a German piece of shit
>>14037539
> better to drive than a mr2
lol what a kuk
>>14037718
>>good luck finding an na 1.8 friendo
But that's wrong you colossal faggot
>>14037746
Because an NA8 can be had for 350-400 quid.
>>14037001
spyder came with a slow smg transmission as well as a regular manual box.
>>14037773
>regular manual box
I've checked every US listing for a manual 3rd gen and have never seen one other than the sequential
>>14037757
NA6: 90-93 with a handful of cars in 89
NA8: 94-97 plus 98 as MY97.
>>14037791
my friend has a manual spyder. i've driven it a few times.
>>14037647
true but they're still shit
>>14037471
which E36?
The compact ones had trailing arm rear suspension, the others had multi-link.
>>14037758
> GBP
I see why this thread has turned out this way
>>14037800
op here
Ah, wiki said the gearbox only came in 5 speed
I think I found my car o.
So which do you guys think is the better choice, an NB or an MR-S?
>>14037909
I have an NB (lower left) and the MR-S is my friend's. I'd get the NB.
The MR-S has a little more handling potential, but it's much easier to spin and harder to recover. And its lack of a real trunk is very frustrating - you can pack for a weekend in the Miata or buy a ton of groceries and still have room for a passenger, but not in the MR-S. The MR-S's manual transmission is not as nice as the NB's (whether the NB has a 5- or 6-speed).
On the plus side, the MR-S is more comfortable if you're tall. Maybe also if you aren't. An experienced driver should be able to drive it faster than an NB.
I won't call them go-karts because my NB feels like a Camry on the way home from actually driving go-karts. But compared to most cars, they kind of feel like one. You'll get tired of the noise, exposure to the sun, lack of room to stretch, feeling every bump... but when you accelerate into an on-ramp you'll be having the most fun you could possibly have on four wheels. An autocross session every few months will also keep the daily driver blues away.
If you get an NB, the 5-speed feels better than the 6- but revs at 4200rpm at 80mph instead of 3800. The 6- can be improved by changing the fluid to something like Redline MT-90; that'll make it almost as good as the 5-.
>>14038089
>The MR-S's manual transmission is not as nice as the NB's
You are talking about the 5 speed and not the sequential right?
Also isn't the toyota engine more reliable?
>>14038113
I've only driven the non-sequential, actual-manual MR-S. It's not bad, but the Miata's is really good.
As for the engine... probably, but the Miata's engine is also very reliable. That reminds me of a Miata problem though - the mileage sucks! I get 21-22 mpg. That's largely my fault, but my friend also drives the MR-S like a maniac and gets high 20s.
>>14038141
Yeah, I've seen that as well on the millage.
Which NB trim level has what you need? Can't find what the differences are from google.
>>14037828
Nah, bimmers have mostly ever had MacPhersons up front and I think they went away from semi trailing arms to fully independent in the e30.
>>14038282
Yeah, I was talking about rear suspension. Front is Macpherson in the E36 at least.
>>14038194
There's no good way of determining which ones have a limited-slip diff, which you definitely want if you're going to do autocross, track, or crazy driving. There should be lists on miata.net (possibly in the forums) showing which VIN numbers have them. Special editions usually had the 6-speed (but not exclusively) and the only other trim level was LS for leather.
>>14038404
BMW really likes Macpherson struts. They are in every 3 series and were even in 5 series up to the latest model (F10). The 7 series had wishbones because it's more ride/luxury oriented. The preference for MacPherson struts was not cost driven for BMW however - I think the rational was that it gives more driving feel as there is more transferring of vibrations to the chassis. This however also results in louder road noise. Porsches also use Macpherson struts.
>>14038456
There's nothing in the VIN that tells you if you have LSD. You have to call Mazda and have them look up your VIN and tell you what options it had when it was shipped.
That's how I confirmed that my NA6 has the VLSD.
>>14037909
Save up some more, and get an NC.
>>14038499
>Save up some more, and get an NC.
Why?
op here
I'm gonna call the seller tomorrow, looks good. I read on the wiki there was an oem hardtop available. Anyone know a good place to get one?
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2016&zip=30071&transmissionCode=MAN&transmissionCodes=MAN&mmt=%5BTOYOTA%5BMR2SPYDR%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&modelCode1=MR2SPYDR&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&makeCode1=TOYOTA&startYear=1981&showcaseOwnerId=588069&firstRecord=0&numRecords=100&searchRadius=200&listingId=395932154&Log=0
>>14038468
I think all manual LS and SE models had the LSD.
Here's the VIN chart. "Hard" suspension has LSD, though some non-hards may also have it.
>>14038613
Oops, here's the chart.
http://i.imgur.com/kzzAr8h.gif
>>14038609
That's a nice MR-S, oh and also Google you lazy fuck
