>your car weights ~850kg
>no ABS
>emergency braking
>brakes lock up
>sliding ensues
Would rapidly pumping the brakes actually shorten the braking distance (especially when looking at the example GIF) or would it be such a small difference and not worth it?
Anyone whose ever gotten their drivers license knows you don't lock up your fucking brakes.
Push until you lock, than ease off to stop sliding, than apply just a little more for max braking.
The issue is people panic and don't threshold brake.
You brain is already a built in ABS.
Pumping the brakes would be fucking retarded when you can just avoid locking them all together.
>>14002345
>Would rapidly pumping the brakes actually shorten the braking distance
yeah
>>14002350
I've seen tons of straight rubber lines to accident sites, especially before abs was widely available (especially in city cars).
apparently a lot of people just stomp the brakes and hope for the best.
>>14002357
Maybe if you could do it 1000 times a second.
ABS doesn't inherently reduce braking distances. certainly not on dry asphalt in a non-panic situation.
>>14002359
Your tires don't have to lock to create lines.
>>14002345
Your braking distance will always be greater with ABS or pumping than when you just lock up. The think is, when you lock up, you don't have any control of the car anymore, you're just sliding. So although ABS or pumping increases your braking distance a bit, it is the safest form of braking.
Uh, we have two different stopping methods being explained here.
Threshold braking is an advanced technique where the driver is very aware of how much pressure he needs to brake without locking the wheels up.
Cadence braking is what OP described, it's best to use it in situations where you dont have much tractoin, like on ice or dirt roads and shit and need to stop abruptly.
This is just shit you gotta know and make a judgement call when you need to brake, but it's usually best to just not lock the wheels cuz then you can't steer.
>>14002365
This is wrong. Locking the wheels and skidding will increase the stopping distance. The static coefficient of friction is greater than the dynamic coefficient of friction. The tires have greater grip when it's has traction with the road than when skidding.
>>14002374
This man knows his shit.
>>14002424
>The static coefficient of friction is greater than the dynamic coefficient of friction.
You just said it yourself why locking your wheels gets you the shortest distance.
>>14002345
Only if you really manage to go into that ridiculously small flield of slippage where you can actually transmit more force.
And that is assuming that all your tires would lock up at the same time, which in an ordinary road car isn't going to happen. They usually have sightly rear-biased brakes on fwd cars, in order to harmonize wear and to avoid overheating the front brakes on passes. (The front wheels still brake considerably harder, but not as much as their load would allow). That means that, by the time your rear wheels lock up, your front wheels aren't near their limits. You may actually gain break-force by just locking them all up, since the difference in ยต isn't that big.
Note that due to dynamic load-shifting the break balance varies a lot depending on traction on the road. On wet roads, the front wheels may lock up first, on dry roads it'll be the rear wheels.
Without custom adjustable brake balance and a lot of skill you won't gain much with that technique and you may even take longer to stop.
The reason why people (use to) learn to release the brake a litte occiasionally is to maintain some directional stibility.
>>14002450
He's talking about the coefficient of friction of the tires on the road. If the stand still, the contact area glides on the asphalt, if they roll, there's a lower slippage at which (somewhere around 12%) the tires make the best traction.
>>14002345
ABS does not reduce braking distance.
How many times does this have to be repeated?
>>14003150
It can reduce braking distance if setup accordingly, putting the tires on just the right slippage (there is a maximum on the traction-over-slippage-curve). Usually it is setup for controlability though, so it won't live up to the potential.
It is better than locking up the tires, though on a car with a brake setup that suits the current surounding conditions perfectly a very good driver may be able to hit the sweet-spot even better.
On cars with fixed brake balance it can make quite a difference though, since most normal people fail to lock up both axles on those (stopping to increase force once one axle locks up), and even a good driver could only really get one axle into the optimal slippage.
>>14002345
Pumping the brakes manually is nowhere near quick enough to simulate abs.. All it will do is potentially cause you more problems in a hairy situation by shifting weight back and forth, depending which direction the momentum of your car is travelling it could cause you to roll, spin or most likely just skid to a halt.
>>14002426
>Shit everyone should know if they drive a car.
>This guy knows his shit
This fucking worries me about the rest of the shit heads on the road....
>>14003207
You me both.....
And if you have ABS, you shouldn't be pumping the brakes to begin with.
>>14002450
>hurr i cannot into physics but imma argue anyway
>>14003092
>They usually have sightly rear-biased brakes on fwd cars
lolwut
>>14003150
It absolutely does you retard
>>14003150
Citation needed
>>14003330
it's common knowledge
>>14003340
Citation needed
>ABS does help to stop braking distance on nearly all situations
>b-but muh pedal modulation
From Wikipedia
>ABS generally offers improved vehicle control and decreases stopping distances on dry and slippery surfaces; however, on loose gravel or snow-covered surfaces, ABS can significantly increase braking distance, although still improving vehicle control.
It all depends on the situation.
>>14003371
>to stop
hurr durr
to reduce
>>14003306
The front brakes harder in totatl still, but due to dynamic load shifting there's so little weight left on the rear wheels that under full brake force they can't do much. If the brake force distribution was set up for that, the rear brakes would'nt do shit in normal driving, contributing no more than 20% of the brakeforce. This is bad for the wear of the front brakes (you don't want to change those every year), and can cause overheating when driving down passes. So they are usually set up to get way more brakeforce than they should for a static distribution (often even adding a pressure limiter to them to off their brake force so they don't lock up too early).
That is done so that the rear brakes actually take a decent part of the braking under normal driving conditions. It does however mean that at full braking on dry surfaces the rear-wheels will lock up first.
Maybe I worded that a bit badly.
>>14002357
>>14002361
I do this and it prevents sliding for me in the snow even going down steep hills
>>14003150
>ABS does not reduce braking distance.
ABS prevents your wheels from locking up.
When locking up, it means you lose traction which means you're just skidding and the braking distance is longer.
Like when accelerating you always want to have the maximum traction to get most of the power of the engine to the ground and in this case using the abilities of your brakes to their fullest to take the heat instead of those palm sized areas of your tires that actually have contact to the ground.
And of course ABS makes your car maneuverable even when braking hard which again is because of the sustained traction because of ABS.
>>14003365
you should brush up on your common knowledge
>>14003416
That is offset by the fact that ABS spends a good portion of the time with the brakes off. Especially for the older systems.
>>14003313
It doesnt in some stupid cases, for instance;
>pulling up to lights
>damp road as it's drying off from rain hors ago
>left wheel runs over a grate and brake locks up due to lack of friection
>ABS
>Honda Type-R's arse getting ever closer as ABS judders to a stop
>stop I would guess 2, 3mm away from hitting Honda
>Fucking ABS
I would have stopped in good time in total control as I was just driving normaly, I should not need to account for wet grates.
I personally hate ABD an stability management, almost broke my wrists once fighting the wheel (trying to fight the wheel).
>>14003510
>bought last MY of my car without standard ABS/TCS/ASM
>haven't regretted it once
Personally I hate ABS and TCS in snow, it doesn't help. I guess it could help shitters.
>>14003313
no. It removes braking power to allow better steering instead of skidding straight ahead. If one wheel slips then it cuts braking power to pulse all four wheels. You don't stop faster that way; It is meant to give more control.
I've been in many situations where ABS has just about fucked me over. If I'm driving in the wet and one of my wheels hits a painted line and slips then I can barely stop after that because fucking ABS doing its thing.
>>14003535
US and Canadian governments passed into effect a law requiring all vehicles after 2011(IIRC) to have TCS/SCM which cannot be fully disabled in all vehicles.
>Do drifts for the first time in muh brand new Jeep last winter and almost roll the bitch when the nannies kicked in and jammed on the brakes
I rigged up a switch that when thrown fully disables the TC, SC and ABS.
>>14003477
If the brakes were on any longer the car would skid out. That's the fucking purpose. Maybe older system arent as good as the new ones, but it sure beats drifting forward hundreds of feet and spinning out when trying to break in heavy rain or in snow.
>>14003575
>If one wheel slips then it cuts braking power to pulse all four wheels.
I don't believe cars with Electronic Brake force Distribution do that.
>>14003583
Yeah, I've read about people just pulling the ABS fuse in the models that had ABS and TCS.
>>14003606
Yeah, it made better sense for me to put in the switch, its there when I want it. Off when I don't All I need to do is restart the vehicle and it resets itself back to normal. I didn't want to totally do away with it as it is sometimes beneficial.
>>14003575
>If one wheel slips then it cuts braking power to pulse all four wheels
I don't think that setup has been used in this decade. It's just throwing away potential.
Maybe in crappy commercial vehicles for the third world...
>>14003624
The car is 15 years old so yeah, the system is outdated.
Nah op just slam that bitch in reverse and gun it.
I think I've only had the ABS kick in less then a dozen times. Until several years ago, all the vehicles I owned did not have any TC/SC/ABS. Just a bunch of FWD shitboxes, an old impreza wagon and busted ass ranger. Never had any problems in inclement weather. People these days depend too much on the nannies to drive for them.
>>14002450
Are you seriously this stupid?
>>14003679
This is the internet, you best prepare yourself son
>>14002450
You cannot be this retarded.
>>14002359
That's just reflex, I guess. Most people just reflexively hope stepping on the brake will stop the car.
>>14003598
... Is this bait or... ?
>>14002345
You stand on the pedal, if the brakes locks, you just ease
>>14003575
>If one wheel slips then it cuts braking power to pulse all four wheels.
You know shit about ABS.
ABS shortens braking distances. I don't give a fuck about your special as fuck cases when you think ABS has fucked your shit up.
>>14002345
Don't pulse the brakes, just back off until they release and then go back to threshold braking. You can't possibly pulse the brakes fast enough with your foot to be effective.
>>14002345
If you can pulse just as fast as ABS
Just dont lock your beakes senpai
>>14005700
>ABS shortens braking distances.
It seems that you are the one who doesn't know shit about ABS, it's all about the ability to retain steering ability. ABS does not always produce the shortest stops. Like I said earlier, ABS and TCS a shit in snow, A SHIT.
>ABS generally offers improved vehicle control and decreases stopping distances on dry and slippery surfaces; however, on loose gravel or snow-covered surfaces, ABS can significantly increase braking distance, although still improving vehicle control.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system
>>14005700
>ABS shortens braking distances
And you say he doesnt know shit
heres some advice, shut the fuck up. in /every/ instance ABS /INCREASES/ braking distance. increase, not decrease.
like anon said the purpose of abs is to provide more control in hard braking situations, because when normies panic they go full retard and put their foot to the floor and swing the wheel side to side without thinking.
>>14005731
Locking the brakes only stops faster if there's a significant amount of loose material to build up in front of the tires. In all other situations, threshold braking stops the fastest, followed closely by ABS. ABS also helps threshold braking by releasing the brakes automatically if they lock, since the release pressure is significantly lower than the threshold pressure.
>>14003598
BAIT
