o I am torn at the moment. I got the green light on getting a car from my credit union, but I can't decide between the two.
What am I missing out on with the NA?
once you go dorito you never go back
Unless you're hopelessly obsessed with popups or want to do the entire maintenance and repairs yourself, the ND is most likely the better choice. More power, stiffer chassis, better ride.
>>13990634
I don't think we have any decent trianglebros here in Georgia for sale
>>13990650
>maintenance and repairs
>not getting the superior miyacht
>>13990634
You never go back because they blow out their seals before the return trip.
well if you can get the ND why do you even consider the NA?
>>13990683
>price
>steering feel
>weight
>aftermarket
>>13990699
>implying the ND doesn't weigh nearly the same as the NA
>implying you need aftermarket on a car as good as the ND
The only reason the NA even has such a huge aftermarket is because it's flabby and painfully slow from the factory. The only thing you'd even need on an ND is a roll bar.
>>13990705
Is all electric steering noticeably less communicative? I have not driven a car yet with it on a rough stretch of road yet.
>>13990699
>weight
wiki says 1046 kg for the NA and 1062kg for the ND
>aftermarket
give it a year or 2
>price
quite cheap for a new car and uhh you get a new car with all that modern shit.
>>13990634
Miatas arent doritos rx7s and rx8s and if you can find one rx3s are
>>13990721
Mazda and honda have pretty good eps system
>>13990626
Nothing. The ND is the same car but better. Buy one and never look back.
>>13990683
looks like a suppository
>>13990699
>>13990721
Just pull the fuse in the electric steering. The hydraulic steering on the NA is horrendously bad; I'd recommend depowering that as well.
>>13990744
So are the REPU, RX-2, RX-4, RX-5/Cosmo, R100, R130, and Roadpacer.
>>13990764
>Just pull the fuse in the electric steering
I-is this a joke?
get a 124 abarth
more everything and doesn't look like a rebadged z4
NA is cute and has pop-ups, also like 25 years of parts and shit, ND is new, has more features, protection, and all that shit.
Its up to you what you prefer, the NA is tons cheaper too.
>>13990721
could test drive a ND for 2 days. It did feel quite good if you ask me. But I'm no expert...so yeah.
>>13990813
the Nd dosn't look like a z4.
>>13990699
>Aftermarket
Right now, the ND has a two SCCA-spec roll bars, two top-tier coilovers suspension options, and within six months will have at least two big brake kits, two V8 swap kits, and half a dozen turbo kits. And there are already people making 200 HP at the flywheel with just a tune.
How much more aftermarket do you need?
Is there a turbo system yet for the ND?
I thought BBR would have made one by new, but they've just been doing cosmetic body kits and shit
Seriously wait for the abarth, it doesn't matter how great the suspension is when you've only got 155 hp, which is way underpowered for a 2L considering Honda's been squeezing out 210+hp out of a 2L for a decade
>>13990799
what?
>>13990721
yes. drive a hydraulic system back to back with any electric one and you can definitely tell.
>>13990864
that is a pretty nice and flat torque curve.
>>13990799
Not at all. Power steering is cancer.
>>13990895
Doesn't that fuck up the way the inputs are sent to the wheels?
>>13990905
It's not drive by wire or anything. It's just a manual rack with electric assistance. Remove the assistance and you have a better car.
>>13990905
>pull out the fuse
>accident
>insurance won't pay
that is a good plan.
>>13990873
why isn't honda doing it now then?
also you can get decent power out of these with an intake exhaust and tune. certainly enough for the low weight.
>>13990905
it's a bad idea on these as the column isn't designed to take that much load, there's a good chance of it twisting
>>13990920
Fine then, just trip the fuse and put it back in. If you get in an accident you can just blame the car for being defective.
>>13990925
[Citation needed]
The real question is sport or club, and if club, bbs/brembo package or no?
>>13990939
Base model, OEM LSD, then spend the money you save on going faster.
http://949racing.com/mazda-nd-lsd.aspx
>>13990905
That is drive by wire. Hydraulic steering you can depower easily and it will just be a normal manual rack.
>>13990937
>[Spoonfeeding needed]
I'm sure it's worked flawlessly every time you've tried it though
>>13990966
Other people have done it and I have heard anything about sheared steering columns.
>>13990959
>Base model
The rim size you get is shit on top of losing some other goodies (not the radio) from what I've read on the spec sheet
Get the club
>>13990975
Spend the money you save vs the Club on 6ULs.
>>13990959
>http://949racing.com/mazda-nd-lsd.aspx
Is this legit? How do you get ahold of an OEM diff if the car hasn't even been out for 6 months?
>>13990973
on a ND mx5?
>>13990983
>Spend the money
>financed vehicle
>op having a grand leftover for rims he should of got in the first place
>>13990925
240 hp out of a 2.4l?
All the type r's except for the ek9 and fm2
is there a particular reason epas gives shit feel
>>13990963
drive by wire means no physical steering column
>>13990984
Yeah, 949Racing is as legit as they come. I presume he buys them from Mazdaspeed Motorsports.
>>13990992
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=593916
>>13990995
>$3700 more plus interest for parts you could get for less than half of that
>>13991024
I'm not American, I'm not aware of any 240hp K series besides the Mugen and K23 turbo.
What engine code is it?
>>13991031
>is there a particular reason epas gives shit feel
Just because they're calibrated to give much more assistance than hydraulic steering. Hydraulic actually gives less feel for the same amount of assistance compared to electric. It's just that the public demands more and more power assistance every year as they turn into bigger and bigger pussies.
>>13991037
fair enough if people have depowered their racks but mazda make a point of the system being optimised for low torque inputs
>>13991051
Sorry my bad k20a 2006+ is 221
>>13991122
you mean the JDM spec engine they've stopped making for about 5 years now?
>>13991086
Car manufacturers are always going to claim that they do what they do for important engineering reasons. The fact of the matter is that they have to compromise for what they think the general public wants if they want to sell cars, and what they think the general public wants is not what reviewers and 4chan neckbears want.
>>13991037
Things you get on club not on sport you might want
Torque-sensing limited-slip differential (MT only)
, Body colored door handles, Front air dam, Rear lip spoiler, Piano black seat back bar trim, 17-inch dark gunmetal aluminum-alloy wheels
205/45 R17, Body color upper door trim, Black or Sport Tan vinyl leather door panels with bright handles, (audio system if op cares), Contoured gauge hood with dark gray meter ring
It's not significant, but worth considering cause most people don't have money left over after financing a vehicle
you get the same car but more modern/looks better imo/doesnt have other people's disease and dead skin cells in it/safer quieter more efficient/yeah das it pretty much. buy the nd
>>13991159
yeah i don't think a steering column designed for ~10lbft is going to like you exerting 100lbft on it.
>>13991133
What's your point exactly, I'm saying honda is pushing great power out of a 2L and Mazda doesn't know how
>>13991165
>Torque-sensing limited-slip differential (MT only)
$650
>Front air dam, Rear lip spoiler
You can make something more effective with $50 and a trip to Home Depot.
>17-inch dark gunmetal aluminum-alloy wheels
$1000 for a set of lighter 17x9s
>205/45 R17
RE050As are garbage. Get 225/45/17 RE71Rs to put on your superior wheels.
>Body colored door handles, Piano black seat back bar trim, Body color upper door trim, Black or Sport Tan vinyl leather door panels with bright handles, (audio system if op cares), Contoured gauge hood with dark gray meter ring
Who gives a fuck?
Keep in mind that you could probably sell the stock wheels and tires pretty easily, and for a fair amount of money considering they're brand new.
>>13991235
I'm guessing Mazda didn't design their steering column to split in half if you blow a fuse.
>>13991238
>honda is
you mean "was"?
>>13991165
forgot the billstein shocks mayne
>>13991244
op here
Whats the price difference for shocks, lsd, and rims added to sport vs club?
>>13991251
no they designed it to allow you to safely pull over and fix it
>>13991256
Price difference is $3,685. Instead of that, I recommend you get:
>225/45R17 Bridgestone RE71Rs on 17x9 6ULs
$1650
>Mazda OEM LSD
$650
>949Racing Xida coilovers
$2250
Comes out to $4550, minus whatever you can get for the parts that come off. It's a wash in cost, cheaper if you account for interest, and you end up with a significantly more capable car at the end.
>>13991251
go to 7 mins he implies the column would flex under high torque, affecting feel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hldy5CzXFHM
>>13991256
the only part worth getting is the lsd as it's cheap and good for road use.
you don't need big wheels and tyres on these, if anything it makes them less fun to drive.
Hey op, I ordered a red ND a few weeks ago. DO IT.
They gave me a 2l for a day and it was just awesome to drive. Don't know why anyone would suggest to wait for that Fiat shit. 160hp is enough for the miata, unless you want to race BMWs on the Autobahn. But who wants to do that in a miata anyway?
Oh and even as a new car the ND is quite affordable.
Mazda is a cruel company, I'm waiting for the car and they don't stop sending me things like key chains and booklets with pictures ;___;
>>13991329
Which LSDs can you get for $650? I thought they were more expensive than that. A used NC one would be even cheaper probably, and torsens don't really wear out or break unless you blow it up.
im 6'3".. will it ever be possible to own and drive an nd miata comfortably at this size? :/ also what's the safety like? I dont want to buy one and get killed in a fender bender
>>13991424
See >>13990984
You can buy a brand new ND OEM LSD for $658.77.
>>13991361
That is adorable. Wish I could see your reaction picking it up for the first time. Hope we enjoy it.
>>13991347
>>13991329
I honestly did not believe a new car like this would have an OEM lsd for sale so soon. Is there anyway to tell if it's true oem because I really do not want to get shafted?
Every mechanic and driver at road atlanta I've spoken to explained it's better to have a rim to wheel ratio with the rims having a slightly higher ration than the tires- hence why I don't want the sport trim rims. Also want the the shocks because purist, not too keen on coilerovers or larger tires unless you have a good reason?
>>13991252
I didn't realize you were autistic
>>13991432
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIjhKoISJyM
>6'3
I guess you won't have a good time in the ND.
>>13991432
I've heard the new one has way more room than the old ones. It also manages to be much safer than the old ones due to Mazdas based chassis design.
http://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/technology/skyactiv/skyactiv-body/
>>13991460
Wow. No reason to buy the higher trim models then, I would just buy the LSD and upgrade to my preference of wheels and coilovers instead of the shocks. Doesn't the club come with better brakes to though? That may be an expensive upgrade in the aftermarket.
>>13991461
It was so hard to hold back my enthusiasm in front of the salesman. Still got a nice deal.
>>13991461
It's genuine. Emilio and his shop are kind of a big deal in Miata land. I mean, he's got his own race series.
>>13991488
Nope. There's an additional package for $3400 that gives you forged wheels and Brembo brakes up front, but once again you're better off saving your money and buying aftermarket.
Would it be stupid to get the base model? Are the club upgrades worth it?
>>13991461
>it's better to have a rim to wheel ratio with the rims having a slightly higher ratio than the tires
What does this even mean? It sounds like you're talking about width (you want a slightly wider wheel than tire, like a 225mm tire on a 9" wide wheel) rather than height.
> Also want the the shocks because purist, not too keen on coilerovers
Coilovers are just shocks with adjustable spring perches. The Miata already has coil springs over dampers, so all that's changed is your ability to dial in the exact ride height you want.
>>13991512
In a few months time there will probably be BBK for less than that on all 4 wheels, so that sounds like a waste. No reason to spend money on OEM upgraded wheels either, better off choosing the size you want. The upgraded still aren't that wide either.
>>13991554
And the exact spring rate, among other things with more expensive coil overs
>>13991558
Agreed. 2 wheel big brake kits for the NA and NB are around $650, and I'm pretty sure they're still larger than the ND Brembos. As good as the BBS wheels look, I'd still take the larger 6ULs over them, especially considering the massive price difference.
>>13991569
Yeah, but I wouldn't really count those things as being specific to coilovers. You can get smooth body dampers with adjustable damping and coil springs in just about any size and shape, although I'll grant that the 2.25" and 2.5" ID coils used by most coilovers are easier to source than OEM sized springs. Preload adjustment really is the only defining difference between normal dampers and coilovers.
>>13991554
>>13991569
I meant the aspect ratio- the distance from the wheel-rim mounting surface to the outside of the tread.
Sport has a /50 and club has /45
>>13991606
You'll have to forgive me, I'm still pretty amateur when it comes to parts and tuning. Would coilovers be the best application for mountain driving then, because I keep hearing about how the car is setup to roll on turns from factory setup. Which is the better application for that type of driving?
>>13991646
Coilovers will be better for anything, since you can adjust the settings to your liking. There is really no difference beyond that.
>>13991646
Aspect ratio is the percentage of sidewall height relative to tread width. The Sport has 195*.5=97.5mm sidewalls and the Club has 205*.45=92.25mm sidewalls. Sidewall height is somewhat arbitrary, but aspect ratio is incredibly arbitrary since it's a ratio that compares a completely unrelated measurement.
>>13991646
Coilovers aren't really better in and of themselves. All of the best suspension setups will be coilovers, because it's a useful feature that it doesn't really make sense to not provide, but there's also a lot of shitty coilovers out there. Those Xidas are probably the best suspension option that will ever be offered for the Miata. You should buy them.
As far as body roll is concerned, more body roll isn't slower. Making the car corner flatter by increasing the size of the sway bars will make the car corner flatter, but reduce the limits of the car. This is why the Miata outperforms the BRZ, despite the body roll. That said, the stiff springs on the Xidas will limit body roll by quite a bit, while the optimized damping increases traction quite a bit compared to stock. The only compromise you make is a stiffer ride, but stiffer doesn't mean jarring if your suspension is set up correctly.
>>13991677
The 50 indicates that the tire size's sidewall height (from rim to tread) is 50% of its section width.
The measurement is the tire's section height, and also referred to as the tire's series, profile or aspect ratio.
The three-digit numeric portion identifies the tire's "Section Width" (cross section) in millimeters. The 195 indicates the tire is 195 millimeters across from the widest point of its outer sidewall to the widest point of its inner sidewall when mounted and measured on a specified width wheel. This measurement is also referred to as the tire's section width.
>>13991677
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Effects+of+aspect+ratio+on+tire+performance.-a0137862029
>In lower aspect ratio tires, reduction of flexible sidewall height improves the structural integrity of the tire and increases radial, lateral and circumferential stiffness. Increased lateral stiffness improves cornering performance. Increased circumferential stiffness improves handling during acceleration and deceleration, particularly in combination with cornering. Shorter sidewalls, in low aspect ratio tires, make it possible to increase rim diameter without increasing tire outer diameter. Higher rim diameter is desirable for anti-lock braking systems (ABS). However, it must be considered that there is a greater possibility of damaging the wheel when driving over deep chuckholes or other objects. Also, forces associated with irregularities in road surface will be transmitted more directly from the tire to the suspension system of the vehicle due to the reduced radial flexibility.
>>13991770
Yes, that's literally what I just said. There's no magic number for aspect ratio, and sidewall height is a more important number than aspect ratio anyway, so it makes no sense for tire manufacturers to even use it in the first place. What matters is that the tire fits on the wheel (ID), fits in the wheel well (OD), and has roughly the same width as the wheel.
>>13990626
>considering financing a fucking NA Miata
Top jej you a retard OP
>>13991813
I would have paid it off in 6 months with 0 interest.
>>13991801
Section width and sidewall are the same? uh
see >>13991797
>>13990963
Ideally you'd want a rack intended for unpowered use.
>>13991839
Sidewall height is section width times (aspect ratio divided by 100).
Does that help?
>>13990721
My trucks is dull but that's a truck with 265 75 16 tires
>>13991797
Whoever wrote that better go consult for a race team, apparently contact patch doesn't exist and Oakland residents know more about handling than everyone who has ever raced a car
>>13991844
No, the manual rack has a slower ratio since Mazda is still assuming that you're a 15 year old girl. You want the fastest rack possible, and if it feels too heavy you should man up and turn it anyway.
>>13990626
>What am I missing out on with the NA?
A Y chromosome.
>>13991839
>I would have paid it off in 6 months with 0 interest.
That's not long enough to make much difference in your credit, so what's the point.
Get the new car and don't be a retard
>>13991883
Just google "why is aspect ratio important" and find a better source.
This was information relayed to me by other professional techs here at Road Atlanta.
>>13991862
Sidewall/section height would be 50% of section of width. Converting the 195mm to inches (195 / 25.4 = 7.67") and multiplying it by 50% (.50) we confirm that this tire size results in a tire section height of 3.83"
>>13991944
Which is what I already said twice. Are we arguing? If so, what are we arguing over?
>>13991972
I like my math better?
Thanks for the help though. I do feel (as well as others) that looking at the aspect ratio is an easy way to gauge how the wheel and tire will perform together on the vehicle (not taking into account the other variables if in reason).
>>13991883
Aspect ratio and rim size aren't the same thing dumbass
>>13991464
is owning up to your mistakes really that hard?
>>13991461
the mx5 and 949 unit are both made by auburn gear company.
it's highly likely they are made at the same plant on the same line.
>>13991244
Where do you sell rims and tires for a fair price?
I've never heard of a decent buyer
>>13992291
anon's fictional 4chan wonderland
>>13992291
You don't sell them for a fair price. Fair would be like $3000. Instead you sell the full set for $700 brand new and deal with it.
>>13990626
Go and take both for test drives. Not a drive around the block, but a longer drive down a back road. Then drive it through town a little bit. Get a good feeling for which one you really want. Don't let shit you read on the internet make up your mind, they're both great cars.
