is the 240sx a good race car? i hear of people buying it for drifting and shit, but what about pure track stuff?
>>13955717
It's not good for much unless you're going to sink a lot of money into it.
Even 240fags will tell you its not built well stock
>>13955717
It's the Honda of cars
>>13955717
You can do better, but you could also do worse.
>>13955717
the only reason anyone gives a shit about these is >muh rwd
>>13955769
Theyre not awful as 2+2 miata NAs and aftermarket is huge at least, also they look pretty nice when modified tastefully.
>>13955773
>pretty nice when modded tastefully
So never
you literally have to change every part in it for it to be somewhat okay. just get an mr2 or s2k (depending on budget) if you want to go fast
cheap, abundant, shit load of aftermarket, great potential as a skid rig, easy to work on, light, japanese, can turn if you junk shit house stock suspension and get decent wheels/tires
pretty much the fox body of drift fags
>>13955717
Useless if you're American, since you only have the worst possible S13 available.
>>13955717
Do you want a race car or a track day car? There's a big difference here. I would not get a 240sx if I intended to go racing, the exception being maybe something like Chump Car if I found a really beat to shit ruined one to fix up.
>>13955786
MR2 is no better. Besides the fact it is mid engined the suspension is even worse. Both of them are fine on a budget.
I would get an FC3S over both of them though
>>13955773
>2+2 miata
I'm pretty sure this isn't a thing that exists.
>>13955717
It can be but you gon spend alot.
>>13955717
Know what I always see spanking most stuff in track?
EK9 Type R
At Japfest they easily outclass evos, skylines, imprezzas in the twisty bits.
>>13955901
>MR2 is no better
The fuck?
Have you driven any mr2?
Far better suspension and chassis.
>>13955901
mid engine IS what makes it better lmao
>>13955938
sshhhh
FWD is always bad dude
FWD is inherently inferior
shhhh
>>13955938
EKs can fucking turn.
I had one for about 3 months and it was great fun on coilovers.
Traded it for a SW20 though
>>13955943
Lol nope
Its a Celica with the engine in the back
And no one thinks the celica is any good.
>>13956066
Gr8 b8 m8
>>13955943
Maybe stock, but the suspension geometry is awful. As a platform is maybe a little better, but not by much.
>>13956082
You have no idea what you're talking about
>>13956066
except those times it won wrc
>>13955717
Factory:
>cheap/shitty suspension
>poor interior
>small/skinny wheels
>shit brakes
>not all had LSD
>HORRIBLE engine for anything race related
Aftermarket:
>EASILY moddable
>can shove almost any engine in there
>can be super light weight for racing
All in all they take a lot of money to be good. I see modded ones all the time in the shop, they mostly sucks fat dicks and have cheap work done. Throw in a good engine, good suspension, good brakes, good fuel, better wheels, and better seats. There ya go.
>>13956099
Because they cheated.
And the st205 had some fancy ass double wishbone suspension setup.
The sw20 dont got none of that good shit.
>>13955908
What I mean is they're basically the closest you can get.
OP here got back from work.
so what i'm seeing in this thread is that an mr2 is a midship celica, 2+2 miatas don't exist, the stock specs of the 240sx is ass and that a type r is a track king.
is this accurate? if so, what's a car that's as cheap to find as the 240sx but is has a better stock spec? i ask because while i might mod it i'm probably gonna keep it bone stock for a while.
>>13959029
Rx7
>>13959029
most highest trim Hondas
So whats japanese and rwd that can make me go fast in a straight line?
Specified japanese because turning is important
>>13956082
>implying mac struts in a 1000kg car is any worse than double a arms
why don't you take that argument up with the engineers at Porsche
>>13959073
OP here. honestly i don't see why the 240sx can't be fast. i mean if it's stock tuning sucks why not just get it balanced and dyno'd?
>>13959124
The 240SX can be fast. These guys just shit on everything. The suspension isn't really good or bad, but will still need some work. Lots of really good cars do fine with macpherson struts, it just has it's disadvantages.
>>13959118
>Implying weight has anything to do with it
>Implying any of these cars weigh even close to 1000kg
>Implying the MR2 and 911 have similar suspension
The MR2 uses macpherson struts on every corner, while the 911 uses a multilink set up in the rear. This is actually closer to the 240SX, which uses struts in the front and multilink in the rear.
>>13955717
go ask the s chassis general thread
>>13959186
is IRS what people use to abbreviate multilink?
Get a NA Miata instead. You can race those with less money invested.
>>13959200
struts and multilink are both irs
>>13959201
how? wouldn't it be a pain to stiffen a convertible?
>>13959224
huge aftermarket. drop in roll bar/cages exist. Miata naturally has a tight little asian body.
>>13959200
No. Multilink and IRS are two separate things. All multilink (in the rear) is IRS but not all multilink is IRS. IRS is independent rear suspension, which there are many different types. Multilink is the most common type of IRS today in sports car, it has three connecting points. Double wishbone are very common as well, but more common in the front of the car. There is also semi-rear trailing arm suspension, which was common in the 80s. Rx7 FC, S12 Silvia, Z31 and E30 are common cars that used it. It isn't very common now because it isn't very good. Macpherson strut can be used in the rear as well, but isn't very common. The MR2 is one of the only ones I can think of off the top of my head that uses it in the rear.
>>13959224
Miata is stiffer than people give it credit for. It isn't bad for being a convertible made in 1990. A good roll bar should help, one like pic related if you can fabricate it yourself. However, one could argue an S13 with a roll cage would be even stiffer. The main benefit of the Miata is the double wishbone suspension and weight. You might prefer the S13 for it's longer wheelbase, but that is all preference. Short vs long wheelbase comes down to driving style mostly.
>>13955717
Don't listen to these faggots, its cheap as hell to make a 240 nice.
>coilovers:
$800 and get the softest spring rates you can
>differential:
A nismo clutch type can run you less than $200 used, or if you have a hookup you can get them imported for ~$250... ~$800 on ebay freshly imported with the gear ratio of your choosing. Brand new differentials are ~$1000
VLSD from a J30 out the junk yard is $80, not as good as a mechanical but better than open diff.
Thats all you really need to make a 240 handle good aside from wheels and tires. One thing to keep in mind when people talk shit on the 240 is that the rear suspension geometry is exactly the same as the r32 GTR , and the front is McPherson strut which can be just as good as front IRS.
Also the s14 has the arguably better suspension geometry from the r33 and r34.
So if you want to build a track 240, get an s14, get a diff, and then get coilovers. Shouldnt cost more than $4k if you do it right. Then you only need to add power, which is the same story for every other car out there.
>>13959293
>front IRS.
Im a fucking retard
Double wishbones/multi link.
>>13959201
ha yeah right
>Roll bar is mandatory purchase, bolt ins arent cheap for some reason
>has hair dresser suspension stock, needs coilovers
>not every miata came with an LSD
>slower than a 240
>less aftermarket
>>13959293
The suspension of the S13, R32 and Z32 are all almost the same, front and rear. The geometry is essentially the same. Some of the parts are even exchangeable.
Besides the things you mentioned, you would want to fix any of the worn suspension of course. After that, a good alignment. With macpherson strut cars an alignment that works with your tires, spring rates and shocks can make a huge difference. After you get a feel for your car start tweaking the settings, and start messing around with the sway bars. Some people like thicker ones, some take them off completely. Also if you are going full race car you will want to stiffen it up as one of your first things. If it is a street car, then worry about that later.
>>13959321
>coil overs
meme suspension.
>rollbar
I wouldn't do anything other than cone fagging with out one.
>lsd
auto parts yard
>>13959321
>has hair dresser suspension stock, needs coilovers
Both cars will need upgraded springs and shocks/coilovers. Any race car should. The Miata has much better suspension geometry than the 240SX
>not every miata came with an LSD
Not every 240SX did either, and they only came with a VLSD. VLSDs wear out after a while, and can't be fixed. With the Miata you can at least swap in the stock torsen which is cheap, or an FC clutch type diff. The only good options, OEM options for the 240SX is the S15 torsen diff which is bad for drifting. Or a shimmed VLSD.
>slower than a 240
This is true, but neither are fast stock. Both need a swap or a turbo, which will make the speed pretty much even.
>less aftermarket
No
>>13959344
>calls coilovers meme suspension
>implying double wishbone isn't
944 is better
>>13959363
FC3S is best
The Prelude SH beats a Miata in every way though
>>13959352
>>less aftermarket
>No
Yes
Miata has
>less motor swap kits
>less suspension arm kits
>much smaller selection of coilovers
Now while we could argue about these theres one thats indisputable
Every single miata looks the same, theres almost zero after market for aero on miatas, widebody on a miata is limited to fender flares or $1000 for decent looking wide body. The 240 has 3 different body styles for the s13, and you also have the s14. No 240 looks alike.
>>13959367
>Rear trailing arm suspension
Garbage, multilink is best
FD is best RX7
>>13959200
struts, double wishbone, and multilink are all IRS.
>>13959352
>S15 torsen diff which is bad for drifting.
Are we fucking talking about drifting faggot? OP wants a track car. If we we're talking about drifting then you'd tell that nigga to weld that shit or drop $200 on a spool and call it a day
>>13955938
Can confirm, my EJ coupe turns like a demon.
>>13959384
But
>Aluminum control arms
>Clutch type lsd
>Better weight distribution
>Lower COG
>Lightweight, 4 piston brakes
>Looks way better
>>13959410
>FC looks better than FD
Not sure which FC you're seeing. Drive both if possible, FD is in a completely different league.
>>13959419
I was comparing it to the 240SX. It isn't even comparable to an FD, an FD is better in every way.
I assumed you were talking about the 240SX because the FD doesn't have multilink, it has wishbones.
>>13955717
Helped build up a couple of S13's over the years for track work only, mostly a good, cheap and easily tuned car that doesn't weigh much with relatively decent suspension.
Mostly based on the SR20DE and DET motors.
How heavy is this thing? It seems pretty dank. Is it cheap to maintain?
>>13959073
>go fast in a straight line?
A Skyline
>>13959455
multilink, wishbones, whatever. It doesn't have trailing arm and trailing arm is garbo.
Also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2HAeZM8ZG0
>the FD lost to a skyline, s15, and a pigfat supra
ahahahahahahahha the RX series is a fucking joke
>>13959827
I can link a best motoring video where a stock SW20 beats a Mv IV Supra, FD, R32 and NSX. Doesn't really prove much. Just shows that a good driver makes a big difference.
>>13959293
I agree here - get an S14 s2 f you're in the USA.
S15 is superior with additional bracing etc, but all of that can be retrofitted to a US model S14.
S14 is a bit bloated in some ways, but that means deeper wheel wells for wider wheels should you be interested in that.
I had an s15 for a track car (not a drift car unless it was by mistake...) . If the opportunity came up again I'd probably go down the same path. Great bang for your buck and the aftermarket is massive (see zilvia.net for low rung shit). It would have been even better if the US got the s15. Check gktech for cheap suspension arms and other parts... Aussie dollar is a joke right now so it will be very cheap for those in the USA.
>>13959073
Starion, or an FD
>>13955717
It's my eventual plan to take my wet noodle s13 back off the road to be a full time track / skid car.
Only thing is you'll be spending +$10k on it to make it decent & at that point you might as well get a S2K or something. The only reason to build a 240 for a track car is if you like the car & really want to use a schassis as your platform
>>13960319
This pretty much, although the smaller parts (suspension arms, chassis support parts, bits and pieces for the commonly ran engines) are cheap, it takes a lot of small bits to make a 240 up to spec.
>>13955830
>Boy do I have some news for you
http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/0805-turp-ka24de-build-up/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svxxVEATs8M
>>13959603
A bone stock 240SX is 2700 lbs. but the car is so simple that weight reduction isn't a huge difficulty, although it is on the heavy side from the 90s Japanese market. Mine weighs in at about 2400 lbs after a few simple tasks.
Also, 240SXs are some of the most mechanically simple cars there are, it's extremely simple to maintain, one bothersome remark I can make is that the car tends to have interesting issues regarding other less mechanical components (headlights, heater, stereo, etc.) but typically a quick google search lands you on a forum with at least 5 other 240 owners with the same problem and how to fix it.
>>13955754
Funny considering an si is faster
>>13959842
There's a modified ek9 type r spanking those cars including sw20, it is very much driver skill
>>13956148
St205 had antilag stock, it's a fucking mean car
>>13956066
Much worse than that; it's an E100 Corolla with the engine in the back. Everyone likes the Celica.
>>13959233
>All multilink (in the rear) is IRS but not all multilink is IRS
I can't figure out what your were trying to say. Apart from the broken grammar, there are multilink solid axle setups (that are very different than multilink IRS).
>>13960603
It had provisions for antilag, but it wasn't enabled on the homologation cars. The Isuzu Impulse RS Turbo was pretty much the only true rally car sold as a street car.
>>13959073
Z31 300ZX or MK3 Supra will be the cheapest to go fast in a straight line. If you don't live in the US Skylines can go fast too. If you can afford a 300ZX Z32 turbo then get that.
Any Rx7 can go fast, but you will pay a lot more. Any S chassis car can go fast with an RB20/25 swap and mods, which isn't cheap. MR2 turbo can go pretty fast in a straight line with a little bit of mods, but to go really fast it will get expensive. Civics and DSMs are popular for drag cars, but I don't know much about them.
>>13960867
He's saying multilink can be a type of IRS.
>>13959029
Get a gsr Integra. They handle well stock, and can handle very well with a few upgrades:
> springs and struts/ cool overs
>19mm or larger rear sway bar
>205 or wider tires
Plus parts are cheap and the ate easy to work on.
>>13956062
Are you happy with your choice to switch to an MR2? I'm an n/a SW20 owner, but my brother owns a DC2 Type R (though unregistered cus it's still kinda illegal in the US)
>>13959200
IRS just means independent rear suspension.
Trucks for example don't have IRS, they're often a solid rear axle.
>>13961019
Yeah I had two of them. Turbo and NA.
Ended up selling them and getting out of sports cars for the most part though.
>>13955901
This is bait
>>13961019
Get a turbo on that to 230 or 250 hp
VROOOM VROOOM RACECAAARRRRRR!
>>13961837
cringe
>>13961827
nnnnope. I really don't like the idea of a turbo on an MR2 to be completely honest. I've already felt the limit of this car, and I don't think the handling characteristics are compatible with the sudden power of a turbo. I'd love to throw the Toyota V6 in that weighs around the same as the turbo motor, or even swap in a K24, but not into the idea of the sudden torque of a turbo. The car is already twitchy enough when on the limit. Not gonna do anything like that til I have a well paying job though.
>>13962034
And don't get me wrong, I think it can work when done right, but I think then it requires some well done suspension. On top of it, I just don't like the lack of responsiveness of turbos altogether. Always been more into n/a or supercharged if need be.
>>13962034
But the car was literally engineered around having a turbo.
>>13962116
you don't know much do you?
>>13962034
The turbo on the mr2 is extremely smooth compared to most bolt on turbos. I race people often when on the touge and even under heavy acceleration exiting corners there's no jolt or anything when the boost hits.
>>13962478
Well it's still got the unresponsiveness I dislike. And bolting on a turbo to my 5S-FE would probably be shitty. If I'm gonna do a swap, it'll probably either be a V6 or K24.
Y'all nigs makin me wish I had saved for an mr2 turbo instead
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/5331160810.html
>>13963347
>bone stock
>those wheels
>>13963347
>n/a front bumper
>painted cover
>those niggerrims
>$6k
gross
>>13955938
>They easily outclass lancers, gts-t's, base model imprezas because its a sports civic
>would be smashed (burgerking confirmed) by evo's, GTRs, & STis.
Ftfy
