MKIII Supra, do you like it? Why or why not? I'm considering buying one, because I really like them, but my buddy had one which he restored and modded and tells me they're not as fun as they look.
>>13891619
My brother had one, I always thought it was fun. They're hefty but feel very stable.
- heavy
- slow
- eat brakes
- eat headgaskets
Look cool, drive bad.
/thread
>>13891622
>They're hefty but feel very stable.
Those two do tend to go together. Bigger, longer cars tend to be more stable.
>>13891619
It's a GT car designed in the 80's, make of that what you will. Also the 7M sucks, it basically needs an engine swap.
I'd rather have a MKII Supra any day.
JZA70 is best Supra
Very stable at speed, and can go very fast for cheap. The suspension is not so good, but it does the job well for going fast in a straight line while maintaining bumps in the road.
>>13891619
also steering radius is bad
watch it with the 7MGE, if the headgasket hasnt gone yet (~80,000miles) you might get away with retorquing it. The factory fucked up the torque settings cus it was a new gasket not the original asbestos ones. If the headgasket has gone its not too hard to replace and once done (and torqued to the newer, better torque setting)its a pretty solid engine
>>13891619
Would I be better off building up a USDM MK3 Supra turbo (APR headbolts and gasket to stop kaboom then bigger turbo and more boost) or just importing a RHD 1JZ MK3 from Japan.
Already planned on importing a RHD MK4 when US legal since they go for dirt compared to LHD ones, But not sure if I want 2 RHD cars.
Also how would a 7MGE to 1JZ swap on a USDM Supra compare to just buying a stock JDM model price wise. Only have around $3k saved for a MK3 so far and wondering if I should wait and save more for a JZA70 & import, or get a MA70 now, then 1J it.
>>13891619
Solid engine is you replace head gasket and don't torque to the wrong spec but shit car in general
>>13891619
>3900lbs
I couldn't make a car this size weigh that if I made it out of lead
I like mine, its an 89 N/A. sturdy, turning radius jokes aside it feels like a boat when driving through parking lots, but is a freeway destroyer.
maintenance is cheap, did most of the work myself without even having to jack up the car. wheels cost a bit more than your average commuter car because theyre a little wider, it adds up.
PLEASE don't rice it if you get one, be tasteful and make it nice. If you go on craigslist there's ALWAYS one or two that are totaled, people need to stop trying to drift in them, they really cant do that stock (i said stock).
>>13893626
cheapest route is the USDM MK3 supra.
don't listen to what these asshats tell you, the 7m is a great engine it has a vast potential all you really need to do is change that headgasket yes.
if you want to look "fly" import one, but the costs of shipping and plating also finding insurance would be somewhat of a challenge.
coming from a soarer owner.
now don't get it too twisted, 1JZ is great, it's better sure but the 7M is as great as it is if you build it correctly, such as any engines.
>>13893626
>planned on importing a RHD MK4 when US legal since they go for dirt compared to LHD ones
They won't "go for dirt" when they are US legal, dumbshit. The value of a classic jap car skyrockets when it becomes US legal. Look at the R32. Crap in general, but you can't find a good one for cheap anymore.
I've had 3 of them, they're neat cars, but if you're getting it because you really want a MKIV but can't afford it so you're just trying to get the "supra" badge, I promise you'll be disappointed. Make sure you really want a MK3.
>>13895247
They do in Canada comparatively. A good condition stock MKIV twin turbo 6spd goes for $30k+ here, while a good condition twin turbo 6spd JDM version you'll find for low 20's. You can find non-turbo JDM cars for liek $10k, you'd be hard pressed to find a LHD one for $20k. The difference in price is pretty considerable.
>>13895298
>The difference in price is pretty considerable.
Because they aren't available for wealthy fanboys to import yet. I guarantee the price will shoot up like crazy.
>>13895305
They've been available for years here, in Canada our import rule is only 15 years instead of you guys which I guess is 25 or something? The wealthy people drive the LHD ones.
I guess I should be buying up a bunch of cheap R33's and JDM MKIV Supras to sell to you Americans when they become legal there.
>>13895247
except we already have MK4's here & LHD is more practical then RHD.
Look at Canada. When they became import legal, there was more supply added to a met demand, except RHD models are annoying to drive in a LHD country & some insurance companies drive up there insuring prices.
R32 Skylines had a high demand & no supply (Aside from 3 show or display cars & illegally imported cars, neither motorex nor any other company did the legal work to get them in)
Skylines jumped in price because the switch was flipped to make them legal. meanwhile JDM MK3 Supra's & 180sx's are maintaining similar prices without a jump because they had USDM counterparts
>>13895322
>>13895323
Canada's market isn't as batshit insane fanyboyish as America's, nor is it anywhere near as large, nor is it anywhere near as desperate. The 25 years is a full 10 years more than Canada's 15, so the fanboys have been waiting a full 10 years longer and are ready to spend those savings. Canada gets a lot of cars that the US never got, by the time 25 years rolls around, the cars will be a lot more rare, and a lot more valuable. High demand and no supply? You just fucking wait until the MK4 supras are 25 years old. The numbers will have dwindled.
Just wait and see. I know I'm right. It is not going to be the cheap and wonderful experience you think it is. The importers are counting down the days and so are the fanboys.
>>13895247
>The value of a classic jap car skyrockets when it becomes US legal
naah, importers just throw on ridiculous mark ups. canadains close the border know murrkans will be looking so they also jack it up.
prices in japan and rest of the world will remain the same
>>13895341
>fills a garage with MKIV supras to sell to stupid americans
>>13895343
>importers and sellers jack up the price
Literally the same thing as the value of the car skyrocketing. Selling price = value
>>13895352
there was no 'market price' for the r32 in the states so when they were introduced people priced them accordingly because they have to be made compliant. literally zero supply before that so whatever goes.
prices of the r32 have remained the same in the rest of the world. if you think prices of right hand drives supras will also go up across the world you are mistaken son.
>huur car has to be imported and resold for a profit, its more expensive than the country of origin!
like what is your point honestly
rather have toyota cresida. same engine, not as sort after as the supra. think japanese volvo. even has comfy seats.
>>13895382
>>13895382
>like what is your point honestly
If you could read you would know my point is that the price will skyrocket and you're way overly optimistic about how cheap it will be.
You're completely ignoring the MUH RHD JAY DEE EMM factor on the price. People pay stupid money to have JAY DEE EMM
I had one, sold it cause school
had a 1jz vvti swap
>>13895404
so the cost of freshly imported supras in the states will be higher than countries which have had them for 25 years already? the car doesnt just magically appear on american soil anon
>>13895423
It will be higher than the cost of domestic supras.
just because the steering wheel is on a different side wont change the cars value...
>>13895444
Yes it does lmao, look at FDs in Canada, a RHD one goes for like 9k a LHD goes for 16k
>>13895444
JDM supras are lower spec in a lot of ways
>>13895455
a rotary rx-7 is a poor example, they are both overpriced because all owned by fanboi's
>>13895464
NZ gets more JDM goodness than the usa. and your statement isnt always true, yes they have the cheap to run 1800cc nissan skylines but they also have JDM goodness and upgraded specs you wont find outside japan unless import.
>>13895488
>NZ gets more JDM goodness than the usa. and your statement isnt always true, yes they have the cheap to run 1800cc nissan skylines but they also have JDM goodness and upgraded specs you wont find outside japan unless import
wat? JDM supras have lower spec brakes, smaller injectors, shittier made turbos, a less-robust bottom end among other things...it's well known that JDM supras aren't of the same spec as USDM
>>13895508
bear in mind that the japanese spend more time in traffic than you do and bigger cars are expensive to run. thats why kei cars sell in droves.
so what if you have "upgrade" a few parts. thats why places like up garage were invented.
>>13895526
That has literally nothing to do with the fact that JDM supras are lower spec from the factory.
>>13895404
Thats why you buy from the source & not some fuckboy on Craigslist who paid an importer $20k for a Skyline & trys flipping it for $25k, meanwhile the importer is laughing its ass straight to the bank because they bought a beat on rusty Nissan for $10k & made 100% profit.
my bf used to jokingly say he wanted $10k in drift tax for his SR 240 when people asked how much he wanted for it, and one guy wearing a ken block shirt thought he was being serious asked if he could do $8k-$9k... kinda wish he did sell it then seeing how it's broken again...
>>13895575
>my bf
faggot
I have a '90, was a 7M-GTE, swapped in a 2JZ last summer.
>>13895631
>>13895428
yeah not a chance buddy
murrkan supras are already 30k+, no way will rhd models cost that much if r32 gtrs dont even cost that much.
>>13895575
is this the gay boy with a 13b ae86?
>>13895660
no, its the straight girl with a shitty automatic front wheel drive maxima that needs to be replaced with something rwd and manual because it broke the first day on the road.
>>13895750
>girl
post tits
>>13895754
fuck off to /b/
>>13895789
kekkles I've forgotten about this.
>>13895789
enjoy getting b& for the heinousness act of boob on a blue board
>>13895825
the boobs are alright for an /o/ chick though, so i figured maybe mods would let it slide
>>13895789
wasnt she like 15 and we are all now pedos again for seeing that?
Was just looking into these not 2 minutes ago.
What's roughly the max power the stock 7m block can hold once the headgasket has been upgraded
>>13895921
its called the 7m because it can make .7MW on the stock block
.7MW is 700kw, 700kw is 930hp or around there
>>13895961
Now why would someone just go and lie on the Internet like that?
>>13893710
>4837363
Look I can make number up too
>>13895247
You can still find cheap R32s in Japan
Overall they've gone up in price but you can still find decent affordable ones there
>>13895544
Smaller injectors for better fuel economy , smaller brakes because they're beat on less. Shittier made turbos is subjective.
He actually answered your question quite well, they made the car to fit the market like a lot of manufacturers do... the Japanese unlike America's will just upgrade their car to fit their desires instead of bitching about why it didn't come from the factory like that
>>13891619
>Pigfat
>HEADGASKETSLOL
>Slow
Looks cool as fuck and the 7M is amazing if you do the headgasket properly. 75/100 would buy
![1920px-1986_Toyota_Supra_%28MA70%29_liftback_%282015-07-14%29_01[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/3QaW67N.jpg "1920px-1986_Toyota_Supra_%28MA70%29_liftback_%282015-07-14%29_01[1].jpg")
most notable part of the MKIII is the suspension, though nobody ever seems to pursue it.
it was engineered by Lotus back when they were in bed with Toyota. their partnership split up before the MKIII debuted, so Toyota rushed to scrub as much Lotus influence off as they could.
they went in and fucked with ride height, bushing durometer, spring rate, anything that could be changed short notice before launch. that's why those first '86.5 model cars look like 4x4s with reverse rakes while almost none of the marketing photos do. as far as i know all mentions of Lotus were removed from the literature, with only the car mags pointing out that it was "setup by Lotus", confusing it with a common tweaking service Lotus offered to other companies.
but the Lotus suspension geometry is still there, waiting underneath rotten bushings and mushy springs.
if the MKIII had come with the originally intended top-of-the-line engine, the 1UZ-FE (which knocks a couple hundred pounds off the front end), this car'd have a much different reputation right now.
Anyone have an mk3 here? How are they to mod? Id like to get one and make some power with it. Was hoping for around 400 on a stock block with just a better hg and stud as far as engine mods go. Any input?
>>13895323
Actually. I've noticed in American R32 prices actually went down drastically.
Before the 1989 cars were legal BNR32s were easily going for $40-50k in burgerland.
Now you fags can get one for what $20-25k? $30k?
>>13897051
a properly designed turbo-back exhaust, intake and boost controller will instantly bump the car up to just under 300 wheel hp.
after that things get involved.
>>13897039
The turbos aren't really subjective, they're smaller and ceramic vs steel. Yes they spool a bit faster but that's about the only benefit.
And the way the JDM Supra comes from the factory is probably fine for a lot of people, but compared to the same car with better parts, why would it not be cheaper?
>>13897039
>Smaller injectors for better fuel economy
Engines do not work that way.
>>13897067
I've basically done the same on my wrx but more,
Turbo back, up pipe , injectors, turbo, intake, boost control and a front mount. Making around 320 with a protune on pump gas.
Wondering what my power numbers would be with similar mods on the yota
>>13897185
I hear you on the cheaper part. But it's definitely influenced by the "muh jdm" status of having a rhd japanese supra
>>13897219
Smaller injectors solely don't work that way obviously... but with a smaller injector and a more conservative tune yes...yes they do. It's all about the amount of fuel you pour into the engine. Why do you think cars with larger injectors have a harder time idling at low rpm smoothly
>>13891633
>Those two do tend to go together.
There are plenty of heavy cars that are floaty and feel disconnected from the road. So no, not really.
>>13893710
>Curb weight: 3581 lb
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/1987-toyota-supra-turbo-road-test-review
>>13893710
>>13897425
my '88 turbo was 3390lbs
>bought '92 supra at age 15 from brother
>straight up project car, thought it needed a lot done
>bought a daily
>ended up selling it a couple years ago since I haven't fixed shit on it
>mfw I really want a drift car now
>mfw I could have easily engine swapped it, fixed the brakes and tires and it would have been good
>mfw I want it back
>>13897425
>There are plenty of heavy cars that are floaty and feel disconnected from the road. So no, not really.
Floaty, disconnected cars tend to be very stable. You can sail down the highway at 100mph+ in a town car and it will feel stable and comfy. You'd have to be a retard to compare this to a crown vic or a caddillac though, so he's right. Cars with sporting intentions that are hefty are almost always GT cars which are almost always designed to be stable. If you're speaking of dorifto then a longer wheelbase always makes a car feel more stable there too.
![attachment[1].php_attachmentid=55359&d=1335934328.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/bdR8KJ0.jpg "attachment[1].php_attachmentid=55359&d=1335934328.jpg")
>>13899146
>mfw I could have easily engine swapped it, fixed the brakes and tires and it would have been good
nah. there's no such thing as an easy engine swap.
even so, all of that and you'd still be left with only a working supra, not a drift car.
mkiiis absolutely need a suspension renovation---the stock bushings are disintegrated by now, to start. i've been out of the scene for a couple years, but afaik no one ever bothered to R&D a proper set of dampers for this car. all the coilovers out there are just basic calculator designs.
there was a single guy on supramania who revalved bilsteins according to the principles of Jan Zuijdijk of JRZ fame. he was able to make the A70 dance like nothing i've ever seen.
who know if he's still doing it!
I tihnk I would honestly sell my unmodified S13 for a clean targa MKIII.
>>13899512
>there was a single guy on supramania who revalved bilsteins according to the principles of Jan Zuijdijk of JRZ fame. he was able to make the A70 dance like nothing i've ever seen.
If you go to the trouble to fit properly tuned suspension to any car you can vastly improve the handling.
>>13899525
>targa
Shit taste. Slicktop > All
>>13897358
Its all in the tune you moron, I can make a B18C (240cc injectors, 170hp) idle like it was stock even when I add on ID1000s that literally flow over four times the stock amount.
>>13899498
i'll give you guys the benefit of the doubt and say i get what you're both describing, but you're mixing up an awful lot of nomenclature, to point of saying nearly nothing at all.
>>13897425
is probably talking about chassis/steering feedback, not the comfort of the ride.
almost every heavy car is "stable" while cruising, sure, due to the shear amount of inertia keeping the chassis from reacting quickly to road irregularities.
but stability during a turn is different; that same inertia quickly works against you unless the suspension geometry (and they way it handles rotation around the CoG) is well sorted. the MKIII is predictable even with its bulk sloshing around.
nobody's comparing to a crown vic; i suppose this is the part where i mention the excellent Lotus-engineered suspension again.
>>13899498
>Floaty, disconnected cars tend to be very stable.
In a straight line with no bumps maybe.
>You can sail down the highway at 100mph+ in a town car and it will feel stable and comfy.
Try that on I70 west of the Eisenhower tunnel, you will realize how wrong you are. I've had my old Town Car up to its 108mph limiter before and wouldn't want to do anywhere near that on that stretch of highway unless it was a straight.
>You'd have to be a retard to compare this to a crown vic or a caddillac though, so he's right.
All he said was "weight and stability go hand in hand" which is simply not true. Sorry you can't read.
>Cars with sporting intentions that are hefty are almost always GT cars which are almost always designed to be stable.
What does this have to do with anything? GT cars are sports cars that couldn't make the weight cut.
>If you're speaking of dorifto then a longer wheelbase always makes a car feel more stable there too.
>wheelbase shorter than a ford focus
>long
Pick one.
>>13899571
"nothing i've ever seen" meaning "compared to any other off-the-shelf MKIII damper/spring system", not other cars.
and yes, fitting a properly tuned suspension to any car will vastly improve the handling.
...which is why i was lamenting the lack of properly tuned suspension for the MKIII.
>>13899632
>...which is why i was lamenting the lack of properly tuned suspension for the MKIII.
It's not hard to do it yourself. All you need to do is base your spring rate off of those on another car of similar weight and dimensions, get adjustable dampers that are valved for that rate range, then go from there, swapping out springs until it feels right.
>>13895352
As an economist in training, I'd just like to point out that selling price =! value.
Imagine I was selling my keyboard to you for 1500USD, it doesn't make the keyboard worth 1500USD
>>13899654
If you're an economist in training, you just failed out of school. Selling price != Asking price. Selling price = price it sells for = value. Asking price = price being asked = your retarded keyboard analogy.
Fucking RETARD
>>13899654
>selling my keyboard to you for 1500USD
That's a stupid example, because nobody will pay 1500USD for your keyboard, which means you're not "selling" it you're just asking for that much.
>>13895750
You should have just claimed that you were a poof
>>13899654 1/10 got me to reply.
>>13899640
>All you need to do is...
nope.
that is exactly what i mean by "basic calculator designs".
you cannot swap springrates between cars without converting the wheelrates, especially with a car that has double wishbones (and weird ones at that) at all 4 wheels, something rarely seen even back in the day.
the only fully adjustable dampers that are linear enough to reliably tune are a set of Motons or JRZ (or AST, same thing).
so unless you're willing to bother building/buying your own shock dyno and spend many long winter nights rebuilding bilsteins in your garage, then tirelessly reinstalling them to try out at a local proving ground...
a properly tuned suspension is not exactly what i'd call easy to do yourself ;-D
(seriously though, if you are into that stuff and consider it "easy", then let's be friends)
>>13899720
>you cannot swap springrates between cars without converting the wheelrates,
Precisely why you BASE your spring rates on something similar instead of COPYING them.
>basic calculator designs
Trial and error != "basic calculator designs," you fucking idiot.
>>13899663
Are you actually retarded?
Consider this case, where I sell a painting to the art dealer for 1500USD. By your theory the value is 1500USD, right? But consider if I was uneducated like you and didn't think to have it appraised first, thereby finding out it were a van Gogh or the like. The value in this instance is not the same as the selling price.
>>13899667
It was an example, albeit an extreme one, to illustrate the point above.
>>13899740
If you SELL something someone is BUYING IT for the money you're talking about, so, that IS WHAT IT IS WORTH. Worth = what someone will pay. So if you SELL it for $1500 it was WORTH $1500.
>>13899654
>Imagine I was selling my keyboard to you for 1500USD, it doesn't make the keyboard worth 1500USD
How about this
>buy keyboard for $700
>try to resell it for $1500
its not worth $1500, is it.
>>13891619
They're like a shittier z31
>inb4 b-but muh supra
>>13899747
I'll sell you my priceless artifact for 10 bucks. Good luck selling it on loser.
>>13899747
>Value vs worth
>>13899734
>Precisely why you BASE your spring rates on something similar instead of COPYING them.
Right, the problem is, if I base my spring rate on a double wishbone car with a motion ratio of .6, and buy my coil overs for my car that has a motion ratio of .98 accordingly, I'm going to be pretty well proper fucked unless I account for the different motion ratio.
Instead of just basing my spring choice on what in/lb springs the other guy has, I'd rather just get the part numbers for what he has and calculate back to find what frequency he's running at front and rear, then run the numbers until I find an off the shelf spring that gets me close.
If that's what you were saying to do originally, I apologize.
Even after doing all that, you'd still have to valve the shocks to get them dialed in. Last I knew, no one really published valve stacks for their suspension builds....
>>13899755
>>13899785
>Right, the problem is, if I base my spring rate on a double wishbone car with a motion ratio of .6, and buy my coil overs for my car that has a motion ratio of .98 accordingly, I'm going to be pretty well proper fucked unless I account for the different motion ratio.
Yeah, so you BASE your fucking spring rates on a similar car instead of copying them. Then you do simple fucking math to get the a similar wheel rate. Then you do trial and error testing to figure out what is correct, and you have the struts valved to suit that spring rate if necessary. Your entire attack on my statement is off of the false presumption that basing your spring rate choice on something that works well is the same thing as copying it and ignoring the suspension geometry.
>>13899798
>Yeah, so you BASE your fucking spring rates on a similar car instead of copying them. Then you do simple fucking math to get the a similar wheel rate. Then you do trial and error testing to figure out what is correct, and you have the struts valved to suit that spring rate if necessary
>>13899785
>If that's what you were saying to do originally, I apologize.
Breh, calm down.
In the future, saying something like "base your target suspension frequency on a similar car" might help avoid confusion, since that's more what you seem to be getting at instead of just straight swapping rates.
>>13895488
How is that a poor example? You can see the same thing with MK4s, I was just using the FD as an example. Go browse Kijiji in Canada for like an hour and then come back and tell me that LHD vs RHD doesn't have an effect on value. Driving RHD in a LHD country is a headache, a lot of people would and do pay a premium to have a LHD vehicle if it's available. This happens with pretty much any car here in Canada. Supras, RX7s, evos, silvias/240s.
>>13899750
How do you think the world works? An auto store buys a part for $10, then will sell it for $20. Why does that seems so difficult?
![supra-cage-134[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/QFNaHAj.jpg "supra-cage-134[1].jpg")
>>13899798
i'm the "basic calculator design" guy coming back in and yeah, this is getting silly.
base your beginning spring rates on another car, base on some basic calculations, it doesn't matter. you're gonna run into some basic arithmetic, as you have also just now mentioned. that's not the point.
if you STOP right there, it's a basic calculator design; a rough sketch with bare-minimum effort. a starting point. this is the only step that counts as simple.
if you CONTINUE to develop the suspension, swapping out springs to taste, spending (and here i repeat myself) "many long winter nights rebuilding bilsteins in your garage, then tirelessly reinstalling them to try out at a local proving ground" then it is *no longer an easy task*. it is a grueling effort that only the most dedicated of folk will even attempt.
you based the "It's not hard to do it yourself" off the first step, then hand-waved the massive R&D efforts ("then go from there") to arrive at "properly tuned suspension".
a proper suspension tune IS difficult to do yourself.
nobody has bothered to do more than the first step for the MKIII. ...except that one guy, on supramania, and probably nameless folk who got their Motons professionally tuned and have no interest in sharing the information.
i think my message is pretty clear at this point, no?
>>13899572
That is completely untrue....injector size effects idle, if only alittle but. It is much harder to get larger injectors to idle smoothly and at a normal rpm. Why do you think big power cars run dual fuel rails sometimes...tell any tuner you think injector size doesn't effect mpg and how the car idles and you'll get laughed out of the room
>>13897049
Well said.
1uzfe swap turns it into the ultimate 80's GT Cruz machine. They aren't great stock but have great potential.
Buy a Lexus Sc400 instead.
>>13896158
Imgurs leaking in again.
>>13897049
MK3 front suspension is shit. The camber change during travel is sickening.
