http://www.motortrend.com/news/revelation-chevy-thats-better-bmw/
look at those fucking meme windows
The Car and Driver in my bathroom has an article comparing the Mustang and Camaro. The Camaro beats it in nearly every measurable category except price.
Too bad the Camaro is so fucking ugly.
Pic 1/2
>>13883739
pic 2/2
Fuck that noise lol, Monaros are not world class cars, they are fucking skid rigs, stop trying to make the Camaro seem like something it is not America... we built that car with one intention, sideways.
Now the VF HSV GTS series 2, there is some competition for the M3.
>>13883739
>>13883748
>inb4 auto vs manual
They address it in the article claiming that the manual mustang was very similar to the automatic.
Besides, the Camaro still out handles the Mustang and is lighter as-tested.
>>13883753
>0-100kmh in 5.2 seconds
>12.3 second quarter mile
>Can actually corner because its not a skid rig
>half the price of an M3
>>13883739
>The Camaro beats it in nearly every measurable category except price.
Except that Mustang wasn't even the track pack, so add however much money to make it still not as good as the Camaro.
>>13883753
2016 Camaro is Alpha platform, not Zeta.
>>13883739
The engine is much larger, even if they are marketed against each other.
>>13883783
>Americans think Holdens and HSV's are the same thing
It is like comparing a regular mercedes to an AMG mercedes.
An SS commodore is a mums car, a HSV GTS is a weapon.
Every single thing about the car is improved.
heck the brakes alone on the HSV are worth more than most of the kit on an SS put together.
>>13883786
Ummm... why?
The ZETA platform cost a billion dollars to create, the Alpha platform is what was being used in the bloody VX commodore.
>>13883916
I'm not sure what sort of cuntposting alpha platform you're thinking of, but this is what the rest of the world is talking about:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Alpha_platform
>>13883568
>More Camaro Porn
>>13883916
Those old Commodores used the V-body platform, not the Alpha platform. Alpha platform was released with the new Cadillac ATS.
The V-body was developed by Opel.
The Zeta platform was developed by Holden.
The Alpha platform was developed by Cadillac.
>>13883739
>PUSHRODS
>>13883908
>has tmobile
>not American
>>13883940
For when your DOHC gets outperformed in every way by a simpler engine, just bust out the greentext
>pushrodz
>>13883940
Can the pushrods thing stop being a meme lol?
Both ford and Holden do better in v8 supercars than Mercedes, Nissan and Audi do using "modern" v8's...
>>13883958
>Bigger engines outperform smaller engines
Shit nigga, what you gon tell me next? Cops is racist?
>>13883984
To be fair, Ford doesn't use pushrods as much as the other members of the American Big Three.
>>13883568
>More fun, more entertaining
It will be entertaining, especially for those seeking the "Help, my car broke down!" and "Why won't it start?" experience.
Jokes aside, how can one use such blatantly subjective words to say that a car is better? Anyway
>American car
>better than BMW
Kek.
>>13883984
There's also been Chevrolet's numerous successes in GT racing with the Corvette, particularly at LeMans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW3CGi2yRRE
>>13884010
You sound like a supreme gentleman.
>>13883899
>HSV GTS is a weapon
>barely faster than an xr6 turbo that's like half the price
>>13884012
Really I think the recent upsurge in shitposting is just because GM is finally coming out with an OEM solution to the Z06 overheating problems and the shitposters are trying to get in everything they can before their favorite talking point no longer exists on the car.
>>13884070
Choose your shitposts wisely, for your time is running out~
>>13884056
>OEM solution to the Z06 overheating problems
What's the solution? I haven't actually heard about it yet.
>>13884056
/o/ is already 20 years behind on automobile improvements. They'll continue to post faults that ended to exist for decades.
>>13884092
New performance parts developed in tandem with T1 homologation bits, including new improved cooling system parts. There's another thread that had the info.
>>13884098
Or in some cases may never have really existed at all (or at least didn't exist to a believed degree).
>>13883568
Nice vessel there, I'll take take the car though.
If the ZL1 has the LT4 what will power the Z/28?
>>13885172
There likely won't be a new Z/28.
No more big powered n/a cars.
>>13885184
All they honestly need is a hot cam for the LT1 and they've got 500+ hp with a warranty. It'll be the LS6 all over again.
>>13885199
It's possible, but I'm not hopeful. I'd certainly be interested in buying another Z/28 though.
I'm somewhat leery of doing any mods on the LS7 I've got.
>>13884007
> pushrod v8
> bigger than DOHC engine
You have no fucking clue. For your benefit ill assume you meant larger displacement because a 5L dohc is bigger in literally every other dimension than a 6.2L ohv engine.
>>13885209
Should've built an LS2 or 3. Oh well bro just get aftermarket heads/valvetrain.
Breaking News: American magazine company that receives the majority of its funding from advert money (and GM pays the most in advert money) gives award to GM.
A little insider news - GM paid us (MT) ahead of time to give the Z06 drivers car of the year, but because the car failed on us we couldn't give it to them. Despite the Z06 not being as good as the merc, the GT4, and yes even the miata we were already set on given the award to GM because of the financial troubles that the magazine has been facing since 2010 (because of our failing warranty program we launched back in 2009) and GM has been keeping us afloat. What we didn't expect was that GM was going to ship us another turd of a car that they could not properly review nor lie about in the video. Viewers would know something was up.
We decided to make it up to them by giving COTY to the camaro back in October... even before the car was going to be released.
MT has been propping up GM and their cars in favor of extra advert cash to help pay for travel, lodging, track rental, etc because for awhile, part of this was coming out of the pockets of the reviewers. When some of us caught wind of the extra money, employees started seeking refunds because we were promised comp pay once we were back in the black. When it came time for execs to pony up they claimed the money had already been appropriated ( into their fucking pockets) and everyone got fucked. You think Carlos just left for no reason? Believe me or not, i really dont care. I'm fed up with MT and currently waiting on an offer with another magazine.
You can see examples of Camaro/Z06 shilling everywhere on the youtube channel
>>13885246
Checking the lifter play end of the year... might do heads and cam then.
>>13883602
This. Seeing them side by side makes the Camaro look so much more ridiculous. I'm not even a GM hater but this shit's getting out of control.
Jesus Christ!
>>13885309
Supposedly the car is 1-2 inches smaller all around than the 5th Gen
but fuck those windows look ridiculous. if the SS didn't perform so well i'd probably get a mustang on that basis alone.
>>13883940
>1 liter more
>half the valves
>actually smaller in size
>lighter
>more power and torque
>power in all rev range
>Better efficiency
Kek
>>13885264
dat copy pasta
>>13885264
Source?
>>13885264
>someone somewhere is autistic and angry enough to actually type this
>>13883771
m8 the M4 gets to 60 mph in like 3.9 seconds and does the quarter mile in 12. I can't say much in terms of handling because I haven't driven the Holden, but I'm fairly certain the M4 would outhandle it. If it didn't, then why would so many magazines still crown it the best or one of the best driver's cars?
>>13885309
desu I like it
>>13885465
God, why is the Camaro so ugly? I really want to like it but it's honestly one of the worst-looking good cars I can think of in recent years.
>>13885436
>more power and torque
But sadly it's not enough to beat a V6.
>no windows
>no back seats
>lol pigfat
>motortrend
>even paying attention to any sort of review they make involving a gm product and something else
they didn't like the truth when i spammed their facebook page with that and they blocked me.
>2-seat premium-trim sports car
>more entertaining than 4-seat exec-mobile
HOLY FUCKING SHIT
>>13885946
>>13885184
>Hellcat
>>13886030
>Hellcat
>n/a
>>13883568
>SS
>better than base bmw
Wow it's literally nothing.
Chevy grasping hard.
>>13886039
Damn I'm retarded. I read that as North American, :(
>>13883568
If its so world class, why do they only sell it in North America?
Not even shitposting, the Mustand seems to be doing surprisingly well in Europe. I'm sure it would fit right in with Vauxhall's VXR8 range.
>>13885264
>advert
Nice try, Ian
>>13886057
Saul good.
>>13886043
>Here’s a sentence I never thought I’d write: The Chevrolet Camaro is a better, more entertaining car to drive than a BMW 3 Series. In more than 30 years of testing cars I have experienced several moments of dazzling, crystalline revelation: that the original Mazda Miata was the most sublimely, delicately, intuitively tactile sports car ever built; that underneath the seductive scarlet curves of a Ferrari 348 lurked a sulky, evil-tempered bunny-boiler; and that the Ford Raptor was one of the most original performance vehicle concepts from a mainstream automaker, an entertaining and engaging ride that was also uniquely and uncompromisingly American.
>This one, though, was totally unexpected.
>>13886058
>the Mustand seems to be doing surprisingly well in Europe
that's because ford is respected in yurop and it doesn't look like shit.
>That’s partly because I’d have never thought of driving Chevy’s ponycar and BMW’s iconic sport sedan back-to-back, over the same roads. It is, after all, not an obvious comparison test; no one will ever cross-shop these cars. However, the 2016 Camaro SS and BMW 340i were both contenders in this year’s Car of the Year competition, and I just happened to drive one immediately after the other during our testing. Then I went and drove them each again, just to make sure I wasn’t imagining things.
>I wasn’t. In terms of pure driver appeal, the 455-hp, naturally aspirated, 6.2-liter, V-8-powered, six-speed-manual Camaro simply outclassed the 320-hp, turbocharged, 3.0-liter, I-6-powered, six-speed-manual BMW. The Chevy had more tactile and communicative steering, crisper throttle response, better brake feel, superior high-speed body control, and sweeter chassis balance. It danced around the handling track, feeling remarkably light on its feet. Turn-in response was quick and authoritative, and with all the electronic nannies off, it could drift through corners with Ken Block confidence levels. I got out of the Camaro grinning. When I exited the BMW? Not so much.
>Let’s be clear: The updated F30 3 Series, with revised front suspension and redesigned electric power steering for 2016, is a decent sport sedan. But in the context of four decades of 3 Series evolution, there’s something deeply elemental missing in this latest iteration. From the long throw of the six-speed shifter to its heavy, gluey steering, the 340i lacks the insouciant precision that was once a hallmark of even base 3 Series sedans. A lot of the fundamental BMW goodness is still there, but it’s as if the whole lot has been dipped in molasses. It’s still quick, capable, and chuckable, but compared with the Chevy, the BMW demands bigger inputs from the driver when you want it to play. You have to work harder at having fun in it.
>I first drove a Camaro back in 1989, and was appalled by the unmitigated awfulness of the experience. Going up Angeles Crest Highway, the engine wheezed like an old man on a StairMaster, and the brakes caught fire—literally—on the way back down. It rattled and squeaked and shimmied and shook, and judging by the heaving, wallowing, corkscrewing motions through corners the body structure had all the torsional rigidity of overcooked linguine.
>The previous-generation Camaro, which debuted in 2009 and was built off the Zeta architecture shared with the Australian-designed Holden Commodore, was a much more coherent vehicle. But it weighed too much and the chassis was initially blighted by understeer for some inexplicable reason, especially given the Commodore’s generally sound dynamics. The Camaro’s journey from 1989 to 2009 to 2016 has therefore been truly remarkable, and not just in terms of its engineering execution: This is a car whose whole raison d’être has been transformed.
>In 2016 the BMW 3 Series has hit middle age, and feels it. The Chevy Camaro, by contrast, has been reborn.
-BY ANGUS MACKENZIE
>>13886102
>>13886109
>>13886123
How hard is it to post a link you fucking GM shill
>>13886103
Whatever, rebadge it as an OPC/VXR, then. Like I say, that seems to work for the Holden HSVwhatever.
>>13886136
>rebadge it as OPC/VXR
Who should pay for that ? Opel ? top kek desu
>>13886127
The link was posted by OP
>>13886132
>being this ass damaged
I'm sure ford will win something someday
>>13886136
>implying opel and vauxhall are respected
>>13886167
Motor Trolls Car and (2X) Truck of the Year? I think think they'll do alright.
>>13886140
>remove badges
>replace with different badges
>mildly restyle interior, if you're feeling really fancy
Such expensive. Much price. Wow. And, like I keep saying, it is actually already happening with the VXR8 range, and the Vauxhall Monaro before that.
>>13886153
No less than Ford are, I wouldn't have said. And a great sporting flagship would probably help.
>>13886191
Your anger sustains me Mr. Namefag. Please continue.
>>13886193
It is ugly as fuck an looks nothing like an opel.
>>13886193
>he thinks he knows something about yurop
top kek m8. GM is only slightly above korean and chinese shitboxes
>>13886227
>shit taste in anime
You take that back fucker
![20151118_195319[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/cLCqddA.jpg "20151118_195319[1].jpg")
>>13886223
>he thinks he knows something about yurop
Errr, mate, I hate to break this to you...
>>13886277
>ingurrland
>yurop
nice try tho
>>13886282
>I like to redefine accepted to terms so I can pretend I'm not wrong
>>13886277
W-wait do you really think a 6.2L shitbox would sell well in yurop ? How much of an american buttlicker are you ?
>>13886290
I'm not the one pretending to be english m8
>>13885910
It has two turbos you fucking mong, go to your containment thread
>>13886292
Mustang seems to doing well; VXR8 does alright. If the cars as good as they say it is, I don't see why it should fail. It'd be niche sure, but there are benefits to having a halo car.
>>13886313
How hard is it to understand that it is ugly as fuck ?
After hundreds of hours in photoshop...
>>13886326
So's the Juke, and people can't get enough of that thing. Hell, the Multipla sold reasonably here back in its day.
is it faster than a civic tho?
>>13886400
Thos windows you did are disgusting. They are way to big. Original looks better
>1/10 for your wasted 100's of hours
>>13886312
The corvette is manual, rwd, and 60K less. Different cars desu, I don't say how the p1 or the 918 smoke the gtr
>>13886527
The gtr used to have a glass tranny, it'll fix with the next refresh
Chill out dude
>>13883739
How does a DOHC only have 500 more revs to play with over a Pushrod engine? Has /o/ been lying to me?
>>13886549
its made by fjord
>>13886553
How does that affect anything?
>>13886667
it has a crossplane
only the 5.2 in the gt350 has a flatplane, and revs to 8500
>>13886549
*400rpm
>>13886675
what has a different car got to do with it?
>>13886675
There's a hot rod magazine article of a destroked LS3 revving to 8k.
>>13886685
a different engine
>>13886694
that's nice, what about the engines in question?
>>13886706
what engine in question?
>>13886123
previos gen camaro is only 70 pounds heaveir
>it weighed too much
gtfo
>>13886709
The one in the GT. Do Rev apologists need to start appending their posts with a
*DOHC only revs significantly higher IF it has a flatplane crank.
I've never seen that have you?
>>13886777
>he belives crank shape has nothing to do with the rev limits
are you fucking retarded?
let me tell you another secret, intake port angle and high lift also contribute to making power at high rpms, without those, an engine wont have a high rpm powerband
>>13886811
We haven't talked about usable power anywhere. Just rev limitations.
And I never denied crank shape doesn't change rev characteristics. But all rev-fags say ALL DOHC engines rev SIGNIFICANTLY higher than pushrods.
>>13886777
>Rev apologists
this shit needs to stop.
>>13886863
What does?
>>13886863
>m-muh revs
mad his favorite car got BTFO by one with a pushrod engine
>>13886834
because they do dumb ass
care to post a pushrod engine that revs to 18k?
>>13886873
buttmad pushrod kukold detected
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/hrdp-1103-how-to-hot-rod-any-engine/
>Aardema has done SOHC conversions by building custom cam boxes that bolt to an existing overhead-valve motor's heads. On this LS motor, converting from OHV to SOHC configuration was worth 21 hp with an identical cam profile-and the engine happily revs to 7,000 rpm with no valve float.
>same head
>same valve profile
>21 more hp
>>13886896
>all that to go from 380hp to 401
>>13886933
any modifications done to intake, exhaust, cam profile, compression ratio etc, will still make more power in the ohc engine than in the ohv engine
lets not forget the head is still a 2 valve, a 4 valve dohc would make more power
stay. mad.
>>13886958
big words for someone who has never worked on an engine
>>13886992
>>13886995
>hurr u mad
textbook mad
maybe when you stop regurgitating things you obviously don't understand I might take you seriously
>>13887016
stop using the "textbook mad" meme incorrectly dumbass
ohc valvetrain made 21 more hp in an ls with same heads and same valve profile
stay mad
>>13887025
lol still maf
all that work for ~5% extra power
same as a decent induction set up
>>13886896
But in this very thread a DOHC V8 with 1.2 less liters of displacement can only rev 400 rpm higher. This certainly doesn't feel the narative that people on your side try to portray.
>>13887043
>ur mad ohv is shit
nice projection
>all that work for ~5% extra power
>same as a decent induction set up
>decent induction
im going to pretend your dumbass meant forced induction
a turbo ohc ls engine will still make more power kek
>>13887049
>ameridumbs
learn why the coyote doesnt rev high and try again
>>13887034
>one of the biggest manufacturers in the world for decades is a failure
>yet you consider yourself a success for getting replies on 4chan
lmao Alphonse your life is an embarrassment.
I'm just gonna think about that some more it makes me lel
>>13887063
>one of the biggest manufacturers in the world for decades is a failure
yes it is
>>13886473
nice try modern car """"""designer""""""
captcha amessmic the
>>13887076
>>13887063
He also evades bans and constantly has his posts deleted, for good reason.
>>13887071
>2010-2014
See pic related and read link related and get BTFO
>>13887166
Link, cause android is a nigger. GM is even better than Nissan, while having a shit ton more cars. Fucking kek
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2014/03/26/automakers-with-the-lowest-and-highest-recall-rates/
>>13887060
Rev fags are the ones making the claim, therefore they must provide the proof. I've done my end, now do yours. If you can.
>>13883568
>top of the line camaro
>better than a low-end 3 series
At least fucking compare it to the M3 you amerilard shill
>>13887264
>SS
>top of the line
This isn't 2001 anymore you homo
whoever cross shops a camaro to a 3 series just needs to stop fucking driving
>>13883568
these days, a mildly tuned Sienna with stock engine can beat a Camaro SS on the track.
buying a Camaro is a retarded move.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0rOXLR3lDU
>>13883602
They make me claustrophobic just looking at them.
>>13883568
>A V8 Caamro is more entertaining to drive than a mid range 3 Series
Such a revelation
>>13890326
>gutted out
>roll cage
>mild tune
>>13887785
The only appreciable difference between the 1SS and the 2SS is the brakes, you homo.
Hell, I like the Camaro, and I'd rather have one than a 3-series, but I'll readily admit that an M3 would blow it the fuck out for driving experience.
Remember, cost is largely irrelevant, we're trying to be as objective as possible.
>>13883753
I'd rather have an actual Monaro than oneruined by americans
>former 5th gen camaro owner
>>13891841
What didn't you like about the GenV?
I rather like my Z/28, but it's a bit harsh to drive daily. Still do though..
>>13890130
>That’s partly because I’d have never thought of driving Chevy’s ponycar and BMW’s iconic sport sedan back-to-back, over the same roads. It is, after all, not an obvious comparison test; no one will ever cross-shop these cars. However, the 2016 Camaro SS and BMW 340i were both contenders in this year’s Car of the Year competition, and I just happened to drive one immediately after the other during our testing. Then I went and drove them each again, just to make sure I wasn’t imagining things.
Why don't they compare the Camaro's driving experience to an Ariel Atom?
>>13891845
What's the mpgs like?
>>13893133
because an Ariel Atom isn't street legal in America, so the Camaro wins by default.
>>13896178
>having so few freedoms that you can't drive whatever car you want
>>13896963
The Ariel Atom has no bumpers, no doors, no side impact crash bars, no laminated windshield and no airbags, all things required for a car to be sold for road use in America.
>being so cheap a company, you don't try to meet safety regulations
Well, there's always the Chinese market I guess.
>>13896968
>living in a state with piss-poor vehicle laws
Based Illinois allows them, as do several others I believe. They're registered as kit cars in some places.
>there's always the Chinese market
That and, you know, most of Europe and the UK.
rise
>>13896968
I think they are legal as some american stole the designs to sell in america
>>13883568
Wow, a top of the line muscle car is more fun to drive than a luxury sedan? Who would have ever thought it?
>>13896968
>Not wanting the unsafe Ariel Atom 3 BECAUSE of its unsafeness
What is wrong with you? There is no car that's more pure fun to drive.
>>13886109
>sports sedan
>not an M
Lmao, grasping hard
>>13896968
>free
>cant drive a kit car
KEK!
american car = car made for americans
so bascially its shit designed for idiots
>>13883568
Stoopid comparison.
Hey Im trying to decide on a a safe high quality family 4 door vehicle that wont depreciate like a mofo. Wait a minute. What about a camaro SS?
>>13902547
>BMW
>wont depreciate like a mofo
kek
You cant be serious.
>>13896161
15 in town. Better than a pair of RX8's I had on the same route, those got me around 12-13.
If only the LS7 revved as fast as the rotary though. Guess I might have to look into a superlight flywheel.
>>13902389
BMW's coups and sedans perform the same.
>>13891825
Z28 the performance models are coming.
>>13887785
In terms of raw numbers the new SS actually keeps up with the old Z/28.
Looking for a new car, should I buy a 2SS?
>>13883739
If you constantly take any kind of car to compare it with a mustang, then you already lost. kek
>>13904694
In a straight line maybe.
>>13884098
But muh turbo lag
Problems with the Camaro:
1. Image. Half the Camaros I see have stick-on Transformers emblems. People assume you're that kind of guy if you drive a Camaro.
2. Quality. GM moved production from their top quality assembly plant to a plant with a poorer history of quality.
3. Livability. Small windows, small trunk. You might as well get a proper sports car.
>>13886549
Well the 5.0 Coyote I think redlines somewhere near 8k RPM or at least can which is actually crazy.
>>13891841
>>13883753
The Camaro uses Cadillac's alpha platform, it has nothing in common with a monaro
>>13909384
>You might as well get a proper sports car.
Find one brand new for the same price that offers the same performance.
Oh you can't? Such a shame.
>>13883568
>Z/28 with alpha platform
when
>>13883568
>american site saying that MURRICANS CAR DE BEST IN DA WORLD NIGGA!!!111
>2015
meh
>>13909427
*Alfa platform
>>13885741
>M4 gets to 60 mph in like 3.9 seconds
what lol
>>13910067
>Alfa
I don't get the joke, you are thinking of dodge maybe
(And the alfa is using a dodge platform)
>>13883568
>>13910375
why would you take a screenshot of that then post it again
