>fwd "racing"
They lose on the downhill
They lose on the rally scene
They lose on the wangan
what DON'T they lose?
>inb4 their only lifeline, the 2016 civic type r they can't afford and won't be able to get in the states
>post yfw they're such keks that they have to have their own FF class in all forms of auto sports
>wont be able to get on the states
kek not everyone is an amerikuko
Eat it cunt.
>>13795162
how's that even possible
>>13795162
wat?
>>13795152
le mans
oh wait
>>13795178
FWD magic
>>13795162
watching them run the oval is pretty funny though
>the only time youll ever see a neon win a race
>>13795238
>yfw R32 is quicker than R34
someone remind me why is R32 the best GTR
>>13795270
Some one reminds this guy its slower than a cobalt ss
>>13795270
>reminder that lap times with different drivers are meaningless
>>13795152
Is this seriously a fucking meme just because I posted it to cheer the crx owner up
>>13795152
Are you referring to over rev specifically or what? Last I checked fwd was dominant in the 2wd rally classes
>>13795328
because there aren't any small RWD cars under 2.0 liters cars except the miata
>>13795270
The R33 is also the fastest GTR. The base model Skyline GTR R33 was 21 seconds faster around the nurburgring than the R32. and the R33 V-Spec was ne of the first cars to break into the 7 minute range.
The R33 is objectively the best Skyline GTR, but people assume it's shit because it's got those 1990's bubble looks and Initial D said it was shit.
>>13795152
>They lose on the rally scene
Is that why they regularly make it into the top 10 overall finishing positions and sometimes even clip the overall podium at non-international events? Is that why the top-tier R3 drivers typically end up finishing in small packs in the middle of the R5 fields' times?
OFC they aren't going to be the best drivetrain for rally, but they're sure as shit a better platform than RWD for it.
>>13795152
>>13795161
>not knowing gen of type r is going to be sold in america
>>13795376
No, even back in the day fwd was dominant, it just seems to work better for dirt.
>>13795565
no mate
>>13795578
....are you sure? I mean MR machines like the 037 are one thing, but in the slower classes, fwd typically beats out rwd, something about how the car pulls itself through corners let's them be faster on loose surfaces.
Is fwd really always bad...
>>13795607
depends how slow is slow.
an 80bhp mini is better off being fwd.
there hasn't been a top level rwd car since the sierra cosworth and that was gimped by it's size in the forests
>>13795622
A good FWD is still a very good car, it's just that there's a lot of bad fwd.
>>13795634
Wha is bad fwd
>>13795565
no they didn't, most successful pre-1980 rally cars were rwd.
fwd only really shined in the snow (saab always won in sweden)
>>13795642
Economy cars deigned to be as boring, safe, heavy, and understeerin as possible.
>>13795705
Like
>>13795724
lurk more kid
>>13795688
Just because RWD dominated pre-80's rally doesn't mean that they were beating tons of FWD's in the process. FWD was still a fairly new concept in those days, and just about all cars were RWD to begin with. The biggest issue was getting lots of power into the FWD vehicles that are around at the time, since cars like the Fulvia and Mini lacked the room for larger and more powerful engines that cars like the Escort or Kadett could fit. Even if the RWD's would lose time in the corners against the FWD cars, their sheer power would win rallies in the straight aways by simply putting out 2-3 times the power.
By the time we reached the 80's boom in powerful, short wheelbase FWD hot hatches, RWD became obselete for competitive 2wd rallying.
>>13795724
Like every fucking boring family sedan or econobox you dumbfuck
>>13795760
>the slower cars would have been faster than the quicker cars, if the quicker cars were slower
fwd was incapable of handling more than 160hp. even 200hp in the 90's was borderline,
>>13795773
My civic I'd bad?....
>>13795760
it just happened that there was a industry wide shift from RWD to FWD in road cars that would typically be rallied, making RWD "obsolete" (even though people continue to rally historic RWD cars competitively to this day)
If BMW and Merc backed factory efforts in the 2WD classes it would be a different story now.
>>13795773
stop reponding you newfig
>>13795886
Go ask an actual rally driver what their opinion on FWD vs RWD for the motorsport is. RWD is good for skids and can be competitive on Tarmac. On gravel and snow there's not a single well-minded driver who will tell you that RWD is the faster option.
>>13795903
most rally drivers would say something like "it depends"
>>13795724
The Dodge Dynasty, Toyota Camry, or Volkswagen Passat for starters.
>>13795760
>No, even back in the day fwd was dominant, it just seems to work better for dirt.
this statement is blatantly false.
the 1970s were dominated by rwd (abarth 131, escort),
the 1980/90s were dominated by 4wd.
why would companies go to the effort of homologating a 4wd versions of fwd cars if fwd was faster?
>>13795952
I never said FWD was better than 4WD, but it is in fact better than RWD for low-grip racing.
You fucking RWD autists need to stop shilling so hard and come to terms that your drivetrain is not magically the best at everything motorsports has to offer.
>>13795972
FWD is a bit better on snow. That's it.
>inb4 delusional civic fanboys point out to FWD dominance in touring cars
>>13796008
Go find me a gravel rally in the last 20 years where the 2WD podium was filled with RWD cars
Pro-tip: They don't exist
>>13796008
not even the drift king himself is this anal about ff
honestly, it really is just loser ricers who care about fwd or rwd
>>13796030
that's already been addressed anon. industry wide shift to fwd.
>>13795270
not as pig fat
>tfw want first car
>cant decide between FWD or RWD
god damn it
i dont know any more
>>13795315
Yes, because you lied to him and pretended that civics were fast
Go fuck yourself
>>13796181
don't focus on the specifics. just pick a car you like.
You can argue that any car is shit based on statistics. Hell, that's the entire reason /o/ exists.
But at the end of the day, whether you like the car or not is an emotional decision, not a logical one. Buy what you like and fuck what everyone else thinks. Like the VW New Beetle? Buy one.
>>13796241
but I want to go fast and beat Takumi
>>13796258
And Takumi drove a small, slow, objectively shitty econobox Toyota Corolla.
Just emphasizes the point.
>>13796308
>Takumi drove a small, slow, objectively shitty econobox Toyota Corolla
That's objectively wrong though, it was modified by his dad but kept cosmetically stock.
>>13796323
still a shitbox Corolla. Do as much work as you want to it. It's still a shitbox Corolla.
>>13796344
but it was RWD
>>13796089
I don't think you are getting it. RWD cars are still common in rally, you just don't spectate, I do. They never place well, if they even finish. A BRZ at NEFR this year did horrible. They're not as competitive, you do not have the same level of control over the car. RWD is only competitive on paved roads in good condition.
Sure, you think kicking sideways while driving slow means you have control and you're some awesome driver, try trail braking into a dirt corner at 80mph and then cutting in hard - you can't, you'll push and hit a tree. Instead of coming in hot, you have to brake earlier and get back on the throttle to swing around. I steer with the throttle in my FWD car. You can't even do a proper flick with RWD, they're unstable and can't hold the corners.
>>13796358
So was the Chevrolet Chevette. What's your point?
>>13796431
but RWD goes faster
they're better on the touge, and on wangan style racing
>>13796431
>rwd cars are common in rallying
>one brz did badly
>nefr
>implying the brz was prepared as well as the top fwd cars
The reason why fwd fiestas do well is they are using packages developed by M-Sport over in the UK
That experience makes a massive difference.
If I entered an AWD car developed by myself I'd get destroyed by those fwd cars too.
>>13795162
I've always wondered, where exactly do this images come from?
![Chevette_hsr_4-L[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2v2lUMv.jpg "Chevette_hsr_4-L[1].jpg")
>>13796448
baka desu senpai
>>13796448
they're both good cars that win races
FWD are not
so i guess im hopeless....
I bet I could smoke you bastards in my EG6 hatch
On the touge
>>13796514
>FWD doesn't win races
The fucking Dodge Neon dominated SCCA's Showroom Stock division.
Aren't there advantages to FWD, as with RWD and AWD/4WD?
I mean I feel like at the end of the day, it really depends on what kind of things you really wanna do with your car. I'm pretty sure a lot of rally cars are FWD so there must be some benefit to it.
>>13796532
must have been a weak field
>>13796543
It beats out RWD cars all the time in SCCA rally and Rally America events.
>>13796534
FWD is slower, handles worse, better traction
only good for Rally, that's it.
RWD is faster, better handling, can put more horsepower down without losing traction at speed and can pull off time saving maneuverings like drifting
>>13796560
just sounds like more weak fields
>>13796565
>drifting
>time saving maneuver
>>13796565
>time saving maneuverings like drifting
Oh god please stick to your bus and watching Initial D.
>>13796583
>>13796594
amateurs pls go
>>13796495
Not him, but I worked NEFR this year and Nameless's FRS very nearly oversteered into a tree right in front of us on the first stage. The top FWD cars in Rally America are a pair of Fiesta ST's running completely stock outside of a 6-speed sequential and the typical suspension upgrades. Nameless's car is turbo'd, running more than 100hp more than those Fiestas at the wheels and has many crazy changes such as rear mounted radiators with roof scoops. It is very safe to say that it's got far more prep done.
The 2WD car that won that event? A European Fiesta R2 running a stock 1 liter 3 cylinder turbo and probably 170hp at the wheels. He placed 6th overall, with the two Fiesta ST's and another N/A 4 cylinder Fiesta R2 also finishing in the top 10 places out of over 60 cars.
>>13796560
>rally
>america
>>13796565
>handles worse and better traction
benchracing at it's best
>>13796615
Yes, we have rally events.
>>13796615
>>13796615
>nobody is allowed to have fun in a country I don't like
Wow anon, do you like cars at all?
>>13796606
even an idiot who gets all his information from top gear could see that this is not a good comparison so how can't you?
>>13796606
>someone nearly crashed on the first stage of an event
this happens in pretty much every rally ever anon, doesn't mean shit
>>13796653
>He claimed the car was less well prepped than the FWD cars it was competing against
>Explain how it actually was
>"Not a good comparison"
>>13796680
I was pointing out that even the well prepped RWD car was having trouble staying in control under speed compared to it's FWD competitors
>>13796718
yeah you were using an example of a rwd car nearly losing it as proof that rwd cars being difficult to handle when it doesn't mean shit.
shows your bias so I suppose it's okay
>>13796742
Anon are you pretending to be retarded
he was using it as an example you dense mother fucker
it was just an anecdote that was used to bring up his points
holy fuck
>>13796758
yes i know it was an anecdote, i'm just saying it's a shit contribution
>i saw a rwd car do a skid once they're terrible
>>13795933
A Finnish driver would say "It depends" then walk away and stop talking to you.
>>13795886
Tell that to the 190E OH WAIT Merc pulled that back from rally.
But hey, how about that E30 M3 OH WAIT that didn't win shit that wasn't a tarmac event
>>13796543
>>13796576
RWDIDF pls go
>>13796789
did you even read his post?
fuck me anon, you're such a sperg
>>13796606
>some kinda weird experimental subaru campaigned by some lads who make exhausts is comparable to a rally package with thousands of cumulative hours of development time on it over several seasons by a team that's been in the rally game since the 80s
Don't know if this means a shit globally but in Finland in F-cup there are only 2wd cars. According to this years results rwd is dominating and only in junior classes there are more fwd cars.
http://www.f-cup.fi/index.php?id=6
Amazing how those GT corollas and starlets are still being competitive. Maybe rwd cars build today are way too big for rally.
>>13795152
>lighter
>able to induce understeer and oversteer
>understeer is better than oversteer on the track
>no drive axle means more interior room
>better on low traction areas and inclement weather
>FWD cars consistently used in rally racing
Only ham-fisted lead-footed retards and initial d famous hate fwd's
>>13796891
but my car is heavier than most rwd...
>>13796905
most RWD cars are between 3,000 and 4,000 lbs, if not more. Just how pigfat is your FWD shit?
>>13796918
3,042 lb stock
who knows now...
>>13796891
>understeer is better than oversteer on the track
Who the fuck says this, like seriously? If your car REFUSES to turn then you're basically fucked.
>>13796942
so your shit is lighter than most RWD. Quit bitching. A new Mustang is just shy of 2 tons, and a Scion FR-S (which has been hailed as one of the lightest RWD cars on sale) weighs about as much as my FWD Saturn.
>>13796949
understeer is only a problem for inexperienced retards or people in slushbox
>>13796949
understeer is predictable and predictability means you can drive around it. if your car has a mind of its own then you can never drive it 10/10ths with confidence.
>>13796949
RWD is only really noticable when you either
A. in the stupid "lets fuckin go bro" modding scene where everything has hilariously high HP
B. you are a professional driver who must drive to win AND appeal to the crowd
>>13796949
fairly sure they mean power on understeer. which is nice for noobs that just can't git gud
>>13796979
Oversteer can be predictable as well. It just depends on the car. But obviously you shouldn't be picking between either because both slow you down.
>>13796789
You're actually a certified retard. He provided real world evidence of rwd failing to perform and you still won't accept it
What the fuck are you saying
most RWD are in the 2,200-2,900 pound range
fuck off dude
>>13797113
>i dont like evidence when it proves me wrong
>therefore its not evidence
>>13798662
>I saw a RWD F1 car crash once
>RWD a shit
>Make F1 FWD
this is you right now.
go crash your del sol, imbecile
>>13798672
Except that's not what he said at all, jesus christ. Are you in high school?
>>13798684
Learn to read and follow threads.
Till then, fuck off.
>>13798693
Get some reading comprehension dude
>>13798722
NO U
>>13796606
>Not him
Not him my arse you always turn up in these threads thinking you're an expert on vehicle dynamics because you watched a couple of rallies.
Fuck off cunt
>>13796221
I said some of the hot civics were kinda fast, which they were, like the eg6 bandana girl drives. Not bad cars at all.
>>13795178
the gtr has a speed governer of 180kmm/h
>>13795952
>nobody has ever rallied an original mini
really now
>>13796949
Neutral with a slight tendency to push is best, debate me.
>>13798938
that's like using american rallying as your example
>>13798898
just admit that FWD is competitive
it's easy
fuck fwd
>>13799870
dude totally showed them!!!!
>>13799017
>my miata is better
KEK
>>13799885
But miatas are better
http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/11/wrong-wheel-drive-warrior-jdmyards-giant-killing-civic
fwd stronk
>>13802859
>civic
fuck you dude
stop making me feel like shit
>>13799894
this
fwd is shit
>>13805249
this
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/motorsport/seat-leon-cupra-sets-nurburgring-record
/thread, this Spanish Golf wins. Everyone can stop arguing now. 7:58.4 around the Ring. Not that the Ring time proves how good a car is, but all the brainwashed 16 year olds here seem to think it does.
>>13809462
shut the fuck up
>>13809702
Make me
>>13809756
i will
>tfw 87 nissan stanza 5 door lift back
ill never beat takumi ;-;
Is FWD really all that bad
>>13798930
that stupid anime thing depicts the eg6 as some god machine
fuck you dude, FWD is complete garbage
there's a reason Initial D, Wangan, and even fucking Over - Rev all have MC's that drive RWD and have the majority of cars be RWD
>>13813648
dude
>>13802859
>FWD
>One of if not the biggest wing I've seen on a car like that
Fucking why
>>13814608
Do you not understand physics?
>>13813648
Now this has to be bait, no one can be this stupid.
>>13795152
>They lose on the rally scene
>>13814700
Kill urslf
>>13810129
OK faggot, come find me lapping the ring in under 8
>>13816318
Are you really unaware that in the case of 2wd, FWD kinda dominates?
>>13817871
They don't win in initial D
>>13818024
Don't pretend to be retarded m8
>>13818030
I'm not
Initial D literally spreads out separate time to shit on FF
>>13818051
You're still doing it.
>>13818099
M8...
>>13818382
You are pretending to be retarded by citing Initial D in seriousness.
>>13818419
What are you citing
>>13818424
Nothing in particular, I am just saying you must be pretending to be retarded because nobody is actually stupid enough to use a fucking fictional story as evidence for anything.
>>13818429
Doesn't mean it doesn't have fact in it
>>13814700
oh yeah they do win in the FWD classes
>>13796968
>>13796979
>>13796991
Pretty much these. Most competitive time attack RWD cars are tuned to understeer because pushing is faster.
>>13819320
baka complete nonsense desu senpai
>>13819281
Initial d works off of having an extremely skilled driver. That much is kind of true. Not much else.
>>13796030
grupp-H
>>13795162
>remove speed limiter
>gt-r does 8 minute lap
>murica BTFO once again.
>>13819403
Wrong
>>13796495
ok why would someone who wants to win an event, purposely choose FWD over RWD? why would these companies only support FWD rather than RWD if it's not as good platform?
>>13822483
>ok why would someone who wants to win an event, purposely choose FWD over RWD?
Why choose a 2015 Fiesta R3 rally car over a home brew E36 or Foxbody?
You're assuming winning an American rally event really matters.
>why would these companies only support FWD rather than RWD if it's not as good platform?
What companies? Ford? Do you expect them to make a RWD Fiesta for amateur rallying?
Really, nigger? Who else is doing that?
Rallying is dead, no one is gonna do that any more.
>>13821404
Still not biting no matter how much you bait the hooks m8
>>13822483
Because FWD works extremely well for rally compared to RWD, especially well-setup fwd.
>>13822550
I'm not baiting, Initial D does use facts.
So does Wangan and Over - Rev.
Pretending it doesn't exist doesn't stop it from existing
>>13823727
Initial D is loosely based off of facts, but is also influenced by the author's car preference and plot armor of the main protagonist(s). Something like Shingo's EG6 or the Todo School's EKs is actually a pretty nice car, good engine, good suspension design, fairly light, fairly balanced, etc.
Fuck FWD
im sad
>>13823727
Maximum bait
>>13819939
We had this argument before. The vide showed there was no limiter on the Skyline GTR.
Stay mad
>>13827397
FWD SUCKS YOU ASSHOLE
STOP DEFENDING IT
>b-bbut this one super car
i dont care
it sucks and is garbage in real life street racing
>>13829030
>real life street racing
kek
>>13827397
Whay vid? AFAIK that lap time for the r34 is completely uncited and set by a random person with fuck all experience
Meanwhile the only video of the cobalt shows it lapping in 8:5*, not the 8:22 or whatever claimed
And the r33 gtr which is slower than the r34 gtr, laps it in under 8 minutes
Then there's the 8:22 r32 time which was done in the wet without a limiter, most likely the one you're referring to
oh and big advancements in tire technology
So want to keep being a stupid fwd apologist bench racing cunt?
>>13829054
>Nissan ring times are legit
kek
>>13829078
someone buttmad their favourite car isn't the fastest volume production car detected :^)
>>13829088
>favourite car
that must be you
Damn
>>13795162
>nordschleife laptimes
>relevant
>>13795391
>nurburgring
stop this meme
