Is this true? Holy shit.

>>7197
>Is this true?
Every single one of OPs sources is either highly biased or outright clickbait. Probably not.

>>7199

>CBRN substances have been carried undetected into the European Union

>http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2015/572806/EPRS_BRI(2015)572806_EN.pdf

direct from the European parliament

this is real

It might take an attack of this nature to rouse Europe from its suicidal course. Bombs and guns are scary, but they're familiar, and limited in scope. A subway car being flooded with nerve gas or a poisoned water supply are entirely different beasts.

>>7213

Right, but remember, ISIS is only JV

>this is it, the apocalypse

soon time to get the hell out of here

isage.org

Is the apocalypse here?

>>7243

soon

Refugees welcome!

>>1

This is exactly the game that ISIS is playing. They want people too scared to do anything, and a CBRN threat ultimately helps that goal. I say fuck 'em, I continue to go out and refuse to be scared by some brown men in table cloths.

so apparently more attacks are coming at midnight?

>>7289
Source? 0000 UTC?

>>7288
That's what I do

>>7292
You cock

>>7196
Fucking hell, what's their end goal? Destruction of humanity? Biological warfare is just as bad as nukes, it's a "final solution" that will wipe out 90% of humans.

>>7299
ISIS is an apocalyptic group who believe they are destined to do battle with "the armies of Rome" at the city of Dabiq.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Read this if you want to understand. It's long, but good.

>>7306
Thank you, I was actually looking for this article but too lazy to search

>>7289
I don't know. I mean the zero hour seems to make me think about midnight.

The question is why haven't we used nerve gas on them?

>>7419
Because it's morally wrong.

>>7424
But ISIS are not real people. So it's ok

Zero hour could be the end of the year/beginning of the new year

>>7426
They're real people They should be let into the nation Trump's so misguided...

>>7299
how can you not know yet?

where have you fucking been, man?

>>7285
I'm more inclined to accept them if they might bring chemical weapons

>>7203
And how the fuck do they know it if its undetectable? Just wondering. They could not catch them but they know it was smuggled in.

>zero hour

Sounds like new years to me

>>7426
It's still against the Geneva Convention

>>7551
Since when do ISIS follow the Geneva convention? The west needs to stop sitting around like a bata fag with it's dick in it's hand and do something that will put the breaks on these fuckers onec and for all.
Look at WW2. Drop an A bomb or two and we've had peace with the Japanese ever since.

Sometimes you have to become the monster to stop the nightmare.

>>7554
ISIS is not a nation

>>7554
I grow tired of explaining why bombing them will have literally the opposite effect of what you want. I'm sure it's always the same retard who brings it up on /news/. We aren't numerous enough to have more morons like you.

#1: Attacks on these lands will raise support for the terrorists. It will make them stronger.
#2: They cannot surrender because they are not proper countries.
#1 + #2: The only thing you can accomplish is make everything worse.

>>7419
Not enough gibs. And WP is far more metal.

>>7560
Not the guy you're responding to, and I don't even necessarily disagree entirely, but I wanted to make one point:

>#1: Attacks on these lands will raise support for the terrorists. It will make them stronger.
"Terrorists" already have the full support of the religious leaders in that part of the world. They already have de-facto, 100% support of the population.

The average person in those countries isn't like the average westerner. They are taught, from birth, not to think, that their highest possible goal in life is to be a soldier in god's army. They do not value life, they do not value individuality, art, celebration or music. These things are at best diversions, and at worst distractions from their true overriding goals.

They wouldn't want to surrender even if they could. A loss of life, even on a massive scale, doesn't strike them as anything other than a force to galvanize them to the cause. Everything that happens right now, until the facts start deviating from their prophesies, is as Allah has willed.

The best we could do with bombing is maybe take out some vital military hardware they got ahold of. Any leader we kill, right up to Al Baghdadi, will be immediately replaced by someone else. They have a high birth rate, they are pumping out babies like a factory. They fully anticipate that lots of them are going to die.

The worst that bombing could accomplish is just to keep playing right into their narrative.

>>7648
>They do not value life, they do not value individuality, art, celebration or music.
I have to call bullshit on that.

>>7648

Your conclusion is essentially sound, in the sense that sending out the drones is not going to change the overall situation for better.

However, your assumptions are misleading and you make the average Middle Eastern civilian sound like a primitive lunatic. There are people who think the way you've described and they're already probably in an extremist group or planning on joining one.

If the "average person in those countries" actually thought the way you described, these terrorist NGOs would have far more members and I think they would've successfully shat up the fan quite some time ago.

>>7495
do you think this is a game? people's lives are at stake.

>>7551
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HOLY SHIT you are so dense.

>>7651
You have no justification to call bullshit on something you are clearly ignorant about.

They kill at a drop of the hat. Disagreeing with any passage of the Koran is punishable by death. I can provide you videos of numerous people being stoned to death by large crowds for adultery.

their disregard for individuality is obvious. they worship only Allah and live by his example. Nothing else is considered good to a Muslim.

art, celebration, and music are disregarded for pure Islam. everything not Islam is evil according to their religion. drawing pictures of people or animals is forbidden by the Koran.

>>7656
>extremist group
No such thing. Watch this video of a group of Muslims.

Norwegian Muslims Admit That All Muslims Are Extremists

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mehk5eWcZA [Embed]

These are regular Muslims, they are not even from the middle east. Yet, they all support Sharia Law.

>>7656
>If the "average person in those countries" actually thought the way you described, these terrorist NGOs would have far more members and I think they would've successfully shat up the fan quite some time ago.
The only reason this isn't the case is because the people of the middle east are inherently clannish, mistrustful and traitorous to those of other clans. One of the biggest myths islam likes to propagate about itself is that it fosters unity between different groups--this is true to an extent, at least when they have a common enemy, but even within ISIS the political situation is a constantly shifting landscape of different clans, constantly one-upping, backstabbing, and forming temporary alliances with each other.

This is a pattern that has existed in the middle east since their pagan days. It's the reason Mohammad broke all the idols of each clans' individual deities--he was trying to make them forget their differences and just follow Allah. It succeeded in obliterating those competing deities from history, but it did nothing to erase the divisions between clans.

>>7651
Have you seen the videos of them destroying Assyrian Temples and other artifacts from the ancient times?

>>7684
>You have no justification to call bullshit on something you are clearly ignorant about.
I see. So the Syrian who claimed to be a dancer was lying then?
Or maybe it's you who's is ignorant?

>>7689
What does that have to do with anything? Should I show you examples of non-Muslims breaking things?
The question is if they value music? They have theme songs. They clearly do. Don't even try to argue that they only use them for their extremist purposes. If the songs had no effect on them they wouldn't use them. The fact that these songs even have an effect on them proves that they value such things. Music might not be a priority. But that doesn't change that they value music.

You both offer me videos showing them destroying stuff or killing people. But neither of these are on-topic. In context, all you're trying to do is paint them as evil, with the implication being that evil people don't like nice things.
Let's assume that they're evil. I've got no problem with that.
But now I ask you to provide evidence that shows that evilness makes you allergic to happiness.

>>7690
>In context, all you're trying to do is paint them as evil
I never tried to paint them as evil you fucking twat. The point of bringing this up was to show the danger they pose to Europe should they ever gain majority status there. And you're right, they do have music, they do have theme songs, but they are almost without exception religious in nature. Anything that doesn't glorify Allah in their culture is mistrusted.

>But now I ask you to provide evidence that shows that evilness makes you allergic to happiness.
You're a fucking sophist.

>>7690
I don't even see why you're trying to argue the cultural angle anyway. Yes, they value some artifacts of culture--THEIR OWN. They don't have any use for the culture of infidels at all.

They fucking blew up 2500+ year old statues, temples and cities. They don't value history. They don't value learning. They would not hesitate to burn the Sistine Chapel to the ground. Greek statuary would be smashed to sand. Even our science would be only available through a lens of overblown piety, with the parts that don't glorify Allah enough discarded and lost.

This isn't me calling them "evil." This is me calling them feral, barbaric. They are the wolves sniffing under the door. Their intentions are fucking clear, and you want to sit here and argue semantics.

I'm appealing to emotion here but it's APPROPRIATE. Outrage is the appropriate response to what they're doing, what they want to continue to do, and the things they want to bring to us. Sadness is the appropriate response to seeing the leaders in Europe and the US doing absolutely nothing to combat it. Fear is the appropriate response to the prospect of a future where all of our history is lost.

Fuck your sophistry you virtue signaling cunt.

>>7685
Yes because a small group of people can speak for over a billion. You're completely right.

>>7700
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
Nah but bump it up to 38,000 from countries all over the world, and you've got a pretty indicative sample.

>>7704
Note the countries surveyed. You can't extrapolate those findings to Western Muslims.

Inb4 I get called a Muslim because I value intellectual honesty.

>>7708
What's it going to take to get you to call anything that contradicts your assumed worldview "intellectually honest"? How heavy is the burden of proof here? How little have you read on this subject to come here spouting this shit?

Your worldview is downright untenable--in the west, young muslims are *more* radical than their parents.

Fucking weasel.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/12/muslim-children-isis-america-and-europe-213420

>>7690
>Or maybe it's you who's is ignorant?
nope, that's still you.

but I'm here to help. The Koran states that art, specifically music and singing, are haram(forbidden). obviously dancing goes along with music and Islamic scholars confirm that.

http://islamqa.info/en/5000

>And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah…” [Luqmaan 31:6]


>Al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The four madhhabs are agreed that all musical instruments are haraam. (al-Saheehah, 1/145).

This is all readily available information btw. They have tons of websites.

>>7700
>a small group of people
LOL there's got to be 300 people in that audience. it's just a coincidence that they all happen to be "extremists"?

>>7709
I've made no pro or anti Islam comments in this thread, but please tell me what my views on the religion are. My only point is you shouldn't take data to mean more than what it says, which is an opinion of anyone who has ever collected or analyzed data in any mathematically rigorous field. You'd want someone who disagrees with you to do to use data properly in order to convince you that you're wrong, and you'd want someone who agrees with you do do this so your argument isn't avoidable weakened. I could pray to Mecca five times a day or smear my shit into a portrait of Muhammed on the front door of the closest mosque every morning, and it wouldn't change my opinion.

>>7715
what a wordsmith -_-

>>7715
So you want me to believe your entire purpose in this thread was to encourage us to improve our standards for evidence because the what we've presented so far leaves a sliver of a doubt that by some magic, and in spite of everything that has been happening over the past month or two, and reports from muslims themselves who have taken up residence in our countries, what we think about western muslims are completely and utterly wrong?

Have you ever heard of inductive reasoning? Proximate causes? Occam's razor?

>>7715
>but please tell me what my views on the religion are
I don't care what your views are. All I've done is defend my statements from your meager attempts to refute them.

>>7720
Not that it's wrong, but just that it's not necessarily right. You are arguing ultimately from your feelings. Your inability to uncompleted your posts from Islam shows this. If you think that induction and Oscar's razor are foolproof or even just generally good tools (the former in most cases outside if math or science and the latter not even in those fields), there's no reason to try argue with you. You probably think you're clever when you point out an informal fallacies too.

>>7721
What you need to understand is that I'm not refuting your argument, I'm pointing out a critical flaw flaw in your methodology. I do the same when one of my brain dead stoner acquaintances cites the latest preliminary study that "proves" weed isn't harmful. Islam isn't a sacred cow for me like it is for you.

>>7723
>Induction not a generally good tool--
What the fuck are you on about brodie? Induction is vital to science.

>I'm [only] pointing out a critical flaw flaw in your methodology.
Then what's the point? It's almost as if, even though you lack the wherewithal to make a convincing argument against my position, you still hope to discredit it to casual readers by using a complicated (but ultimately inconsequential) argument that most people aren't going to understand the implications of. Maybe leave people with the impression that maybe, if you squint a little, you can maybe make it look like everything is A-OK in Euroland. I think you're dissembling, trying to draw the discussion down some rabbit hole where you can hopefully corner me with abstractions.

If I had managed to dig up stats that showed that say, 50% of european muslims want to take up arms tomorrow, you'd probably still find some "critical flaw" in the methodology. Some pat critique without substance. I see it so often with academics... they selectively apply these "rigorous" standards only to things they disagree with-- while shit like critical theory gets a pass.

Besides, there's really not much more than induction you can do in sociology (I think that's the right word for this) at this point. The effects people have on places they move to and from is hard to do experiments with. The standards for evidence are necessarily lower.

We have tons of reports about what's happening in Europe, we have appalling statistics (single-digit percentage of the population in Sweden responsible for something like 3/4 of the rapes there--and that's not the last stop on the shit train) and you're sitting in the corner, dickering around with theory, smugly proclaiming that you've deduced how everyone else has got it all wrong.

You're not improving the discussion at this point. You're just being contrary.

> You are arguing ultimately from your feelings.
Impassioned arguments aren't necessarily wrong.

>>7740
saved

>>7196
>undetectable
But then how do they know about it?

>>7740
>#rekt

>>7757
Chatter

>>7694
>The point of bringing this up was to show the danger they pose to Europe should they ever gain majority status there.
Which is irrelevant to the point. Why quote me if you have nothing to say on the topic?

>>7697
>I don't even see why you're trying to argue the cultural angle anyway.
Because some retard made a moronic statement.
>They don't value history. They don't value learning.
Oh, he made another one.

>I'm appealing to emotion here but it's APPROPRIATE.
When the question is if you should declare war on a country or bomb civilians, appealing to emotions is never appropriate. It's successful because humans can't think clearly when they're being emotional, but that doesn't make it appropriate. It's precisely what makes it inappropriate.

>>7710
So basically you don't know shit. No matter what the Koran states, there are people there that appreciate these things. They may not be very respected (the aforementioned dancer left the country because his performances weren't very popular), but that doesn't change the fact that they are humans, and humans like culture.

>>7704
>http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
>The percentage of Muslims who say they want sharia to be “the official law of the land” varies widely around the world, from fewer than one-in-ten in Azerbaijan (8%) to near unanimity in Afghanistan (99%). But solid majorities in most of the countries surveyed across the Middle East and North Africa, sub-Saharan Africa, South Asia and Southeast Asia favor the establishment of sharia, including 71% of Muslims in Nigeria, 72% in Indonesia, 74% in Egypt and 89% in the Palestinian territories.
Oh that's funny. People who live in shit countries are looking for an alternative? Any law would be better than no law.

>At the same time, the survey finds that even in many countries where there is strong backing for sharia, most Muslims favor religious freedom for people of other faiths. In Pakistan, for example, three-quarters of Muslims say that non-Muslims are very free to practice their religion, and fully 96% of those who share this assessment say it is “a good thing.” Yet 84% of Pakistani Muslims favor enshrining sharia as official law. These seemingly divergent views are possible partly because most supporters of sharia in Pakistan – as in many other countries – think Islamic law should apply only to Muslims. Moreover, Muslims around the globe have differing understandings of what sharia means in practice.

I have only started reading this and already I doubt that it'll end up proving Muslims to be barbarians. Did you actually read this? What part should I be most concerned about?

>>7804
You're a dumbass. Take your taquitos somewhere else.

>>7557
It's not like running into a village guns ablazing when all they are doing is farming and fishing, throwing sticks in the mud, and maybe stabbing things with spears, they're fucking sand niggers who have literally committed what would have been considered acts of war way back then, attacking another nation's innocents in the name of their "nation."

>>7824
And yet most of them are just living their lives.

>>7826
>Oh that's funny. People who live in shit countries are looking for an alternative? Any law would be better than no law.
Amazing insights pulled directly from your ass. Care to give me any kind of citation at all for that? It's amazing how little in the way of evidence I've seen you provide... All you do is just restate the same shit over and over.

>Did you actually read this? What part should I be most concerned about?
Dude, I can see you have a narrative you're trying to push here, you're having to do some extreme mental gymnastics to keep it going. It's actually kind of entertaining.

When I give you new information, all you do is try to fit it into your preconceived notions. Do you see how fucked up so much of the stuff in there is? The percentage of people who advocate death for leaving Islam is at least 5% with the lowest data point (In Europe no less). Do you realize how fucked up that is?

If this was a survey of white rednecks, and you saw a report that said that 5% of them said the penalty for, let's say, homosexuality should be the death penalty, you'd happily, and not without a lot of self-satisfaction, label them savages. But for Muslims, you let it pass.

Understand this-- I never painted muslims as these cartoonish villains. That's something you imposed on me. I understand that there are a lot of people in the middle east who are just trying to live their lives without being bothered. But do you not realize that the path a society takes is not determined by moderates who are content to let the "radicals" do their thing without raising a hint of complaint?

>Because some retard made a moronic statement.
>...
>Oh, he made another one.
We've been over this already. You can't win this point.

>When the question is if you should declare war on a country or bomb civilians, appealing to emotions is never appropriate.
I never advocated for bombing Muslims. I advocated for keeping them out of Europe.

>>7804
You lack even anecdotal understanding of the middle east or its culture. You've had to backtrack several times to take account of new information posed to you.

You probably haven't even read anything on the subject before you came to this thread. You don't even understand basic scientific terms, and I seriously doubt you understand how to interpret statistics. All you had at the outset was a narrative you'd defend to the death, and a smug sense of superiority.

Zero hour could be many things. Jubilee in Rome has already started and nothing happened. Christmas midnight and new year eve are my bets

>>7203
>European parliament
>not a highly biased source
pick uno

>>7828
>you're having to do some extreme mental gymnastics to keep it going. It's actually kind of entertaining.
No, actually. I started skimming the text, and the quoted bits are literally the first thing that I found. Since that didn't fit YOUR narrative, I asked you what bits I should read.
You still aren't saying, by the way. What pages highlight what you are talking about?

>>7828
>You can't win this point.
Because you have no argument to win against. All you have is a fixation on painting them as cartoonish villains which you then try to get to pass by claiming that isn't what you're doing.
They don't value learning?
This is just dumb. I'm not even going to try to disprove it because that would mean to acknowledge the notion that this might be a serious statement.

>I never advocated for bombing Muslims.
That was the fucking starting point of the discussion. It figures that you can't keep up.

>But do you not realize that the path a society takes is not determined by moderates who are content to let the "radicals" do their thing without raising a hint of complaint?
Finally, something semi-sensible from you.
The countries are shit because they are run by radicals who are passively or actively supported by moderates who really don't care all that much and really just want to live their lives. Which, if you trace things back to the starting point, means that this whole discussion is fucking stupid on your part.
The question was what bombing would accomplish (>>7560 >>7648) to which some retard answered that they don't fucking care about anything anyway, since nobody there cares about anything other than Allah and the furthering of Islam.
If there are moderates, then those moderates do care about their lives, because that's what their lives are about.
Do I need to draw you a graph or something?

>>7800
>you don't know shit

it's not a matter of what i know. i provided evidence from the Koran and Muslims scholars, stating that art is forbidden. the facts speak for themselves.

it is clear you have no interest in an honest discussion. this board needs IDs.

>>7853
The book forbids art, but reality is a little different. For instance, Islamic people fucking love calligraphy (seriously, almost every Muslim I've known loves that shit), which is artistically representing a language's lettering. The Persians, Ottomans, and Mughals had their own painting tradition as well as their own unique forms of architecture.

In addition, the use of music is debated. IIRC, some believe that a capella music is fine, whereas others think instrumentation is fine if it is used for religious purposes. Of course, every Muslim I knew didn't really care and listened to music as much as everyone else I knew.

>>7844
How are you not too embarrassed to keep posting? Holy shit.

>If there are moderates, then those moderates do care about their lives, because that's what their lives are about.
> Any law would be better than no law.
Here you are, several instances of you claiming to understand the motivations of these people based on nothing but inferences. One of the big reasons you were motivated to post replies to me initially is because I was apparently "extrapolating findings" wrongly, making assumptions that the data didn't explicitly say, and here you are doing that very thing. What a critical flaw!

You are just not being honest here.

And no, from what I've experienced, moderates do not actually care about their lives as much as equivalent westerners. The "moderate" Muslims I've known have all been slightly hostile to outsiders, ready to outright say fucked up things about all the people they'd like to kill, and in polite society they get a pass. I don't have hard data to back that up, but neither do you. In fact you haven't provided a single source in this entire thread.

>They don't value learning?
That's right! It's a cultural more. They happily destroyed Assyrian ruins. Your response to this is really telling-- "Durr, Christians have destroyed stuff too!" Sure, I'll agree. And I'll raise you that I find it to be just as much of a travesty.

>>7869
"The book" huh?
>Of course, every Muslim I knew didn't really care and listened to music as much as everyone else I knew.
The point isn't whether they go ahead and partake of these things. The point is that they don't value them. Most western muslims are happy to partake in articles of western culture, but their religion tells those things are inherently bad. They will not go to great lengths to defend or preserve non-religious culture, especially if it belongs to another ethnic group.

>>7199
This

>>7873
>You are just not being honest here.
No, you are asserting that two different people are one and the same, and then you disregard whatever they say based on that.

> The "moderate" Muslims I've known have all been slightly hostile to outsiders, ready to outright say fucked up things about all the people they'd like to kill, and in polite society they get a pass.
The Muslims from Palestine and Syria that I've spoken to never expressed desire to kill anybody at all.
But that's beside the point. Even if you'd like somebody to be dead, that doesn't mean you go out of your way to kill them - because people have lives, a fact that you've swiped away again with something completely unrelated.
This is all you are doing. Trying to prove something by asserting something different.

>They happily destroyed Assyrian ruins.
So?
>I find it to be just as much of a travesty.
Meaning you believe that Christians don't value learning? That is evidently wrong. The church was invaluable in terms of knowledge during the middle ages.

>>7873
>The point is that they don't value them.
If they like it, they value it. That's how it works.

>They will not go to great lengths to defend or preserve non-religious culture, especially if it belongs to another ethnic group.
Moving the goalposts.
It doesn't matter what they would stand up to defend. We're talking about what the stuff means to them in their day-to-day lives, because that's what would be destroyed by the bombings.

>>7853
>i provided evidence from the Koran and Muslims scholars,
We're not talking about the book or the scholars. We are talking about the people. When will you understand this?

>>7869
>Islamic people fucking love calligraphy
That's correct. According to the metropolitan museum of art, calligraphy is the most highly regarded and most fundamental element of Islamic art.

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/cali/hd_cali.htm

But this doesn't support your notion that Muslims value art.

The main purpose of calligraphy is to transmit a message. It only happens to be a decorative art form.

So according to you and this art museum, the most valued art form in the Islamic world isn't even necessarily an art form. It's biblical scripture, written in a decorative fashion.

This is just further evidence that Muslims value Islam and ONLY Islam.

>>7879
>No, you are asserting that two different people are one and the same, and then you disregard whatever they say based on that.
Wait so you're going to claim that wasn't you in the original post? Do you expect me to believe that?

> The Muslims from Palestine and Syria that I've spoken to never expressed desire to kill anybody at all.
Awesome, it's one dubious anecdote versus another!

>Meaning you believe that Christians don't value learning?
More sophistry. I think they don't value learning because they don't value learning. Their culture, their imams, their holy book all tell them that nothing other than what is of Allah is of any value. Them destroying Assyrian bas reliefs is just a symptom of that.

They rejected and destroyed much scientific work during their "golden age" because they decided it didn't glorify allah enough. Most of this work, BTW, was done by people who were originally non-muslims who had been forced to convert (or die). The only reason they preserved what they did was because its value was indisputable.

>If they like it, they value it. That's how it works.
Hmmm no. This is an overly-simplified argument that typifies what I've seen from you so far.

It's possible to like something but to have no compunctions about wiping it from existence if you feel it's your religious obligation to do so.

> We are talking about the people.
Your entire argument for the last several posts has hinged on the pretty nebulous assertion that I somehow don't think muslims are regular people. It's an almost-subtle accusation of bigotry.

You seek to show me examples of muslims being "normal" in a hope that this somehow demonstrates that they aren't fucked up at all. It doesn't. It's possible to have some behaviors and attitudes that are similar to the west, while still having others that are incompatible with it.

It's page from the leftist playbook. Try and show commonality between people as if that somehow obviates the differences. It doesn't.

>>7879
>the people
The people that worship the Koran as it is interpreted and translated by Muslims scholars.

Are you really trying to say that the Islamic religion is not relevant when discussing Muslims?

You are a deceitful idiot, but I can't pass up a chance to show the truth of this Islam.

Here's a video of dozens of Muslims stoning a man to death, giving a woman lashings, and executing a man via a bullet.

https://www.youtube.com/v/KTGd6VJ-M6k

This are the people we are talking about. They are not "extreme," just sharia compliant Muslims.

>>7800
>>7879

Ahaha, this guy.

>The Quran says music is bad.
>"No it doesn't."
>Yes, it does.
>"N-No it doesn't, you r-retard!"
>Here's proof that it does.
>"O-Oh, but it doesn't matter! SOME people there still like it!"

And then he completely moves the goalpost and starts talking about "the people!" as if the small amount of Islamic worshipers he's come in contact with actually mattered.

Really, stop posting any time.

>>7893
>Do you expect me to believe that?
You can believe whatever you want. It shouldn't change the arguments.

>It's possible to like something but to have no compunctions about wiping it from existence if you feel it's your religious obligation to do so.
Sure. So?
Again, you're changing the subject and trying to pass it off as an argument. It isn't one.
This has nothing to do with what we are discussing.
Again, and as a reminder, we are still discussing what these things mean to them in their day-to-day lives.

>I somehow don't think muslims are regular people.
No, you don't seem to think of them as people at all.
You point at their holy scripture as "proof" for how they think. Then you go back hundreds of years for "proof" of what they think of art.
You do everything other than consider *them*.
If you want to prove that Muslims don't like to learn, show me statistics of them refusing to go to school or letting their children attend school, or closing schools.
In other words, stop beating around the fucking bush.

>You seek to show me examples of muslims being "normal"
No, I don't, and I don't know why you'd think that.

>It's possible to
Is that your evidence?

>>7894
>Are you really trying to say that the Islamic religion is not relevant when discussing Muslims?
Are you really reducing people to their religion?

>Here's a video [that shows something completely unrelated]
Oh, that's nice. What do you think we're discussing?

>>7897
I'm not sure if you've read this thread at all.

>>7899
>I'm not sure if you've read this thread at all.
No, no he was pretty spot-on.

>>7899
>Again, and as a reminder, we are still discussing what these things mean to them in their day-to-day lives.
*You* are the only one discussing that. You are the one who is pretending this is an important point to establish. You are dissembling again.

>You do everything other than consider *them*.
OK fine we'll play that game. Are *you* considering them? Did you just gloss over the parts of the Pew study I linked where a sizable minority (in some cases majority) of them believe in things like stoning and decapitation as penalty for social crimes? Did you ignore the stories I linked about how the children of muslim immigrants are more radical than their parents? Are you paying attention to the world at large? Have you ever met a muslim?

>No, you don't seem to think of them as people at all.
Arguing from emotion eh? I never said that. All I do is relate the facts that I have gleaned from a lot of reading and experience living in a city (here's a hint it was in the news recently) with a muslim population.

>>7899
>unrelated
According to you, The Koran, Islamic authorities, and even videos of Muslims in the wild are all unrelated to this discussion about Muslims.

Just admit it, you aren't interested in a discussion at all. This degradation of debate has become trite, and you're too stupid to realize it.

>>7213
Reminds me of the plot of Modern Warfare 3.

>>7904
>*You* are the only one discussing that.
Ah, I see.
Then we are not in disagreement and it was all just a silly misunderstanding because you seemed to, from my perspective?
That's good to hear.

>>7904
>Did you just gloss over the parts of the Pew study I linked where a sizable minority (in some cases majority) of them believe in things like stoning and decapitation as penalty for social crimes?
You repeat your fearmongering tactics.
Your logic:
They stone people, therefore they don't like art.
A, therefore B.
What is missing is a believable reasoning why you think "If A, then B".
So long as you don't deliver on that part, you have nothing.

>Are *you* considering them?
Nice deflection, but you are still not delivering. Where are those statistics I asked for?

>Did you ignore the stories I linked about how the children of muslim immigrants are more radical than their parents?
How do you explain that with your generalizations? There shouldn't be a difference in the generations if you were right. The fact that they are becoming more radical means that their Muslim parents must have fit into society to some degree.

>Arguing from emotion eh?
No, that's not arguing from emotion. But if you don't consider them capable of individuality or thinking outside of the strict doctrine that you have read about on the internet, then they are not people to you.
People behave in human ways.

>>7921
>According to you, The Koran, Islamic authorities, and even videos of Muslims in the wild are all unrelated to this discussion about Muslims.
According to me, a video of one aspect of Muslim culture does not make you an expert on another aspect. Do you disagree?

>>7684
>You have no justification to call bullshit on something you are clearly ignorant about.
STAY ON YOUR CONTAINMENT BOARD >>>/pol/

>>7938
>People behave in human ways.
Oh god, you're a muslim. How did it feel to practice taqiya back there when you talked about smearing your feces on a mosque? Bet it was a little liberating huh?

>>7938
my expertise was never the issue. i used basic internet skills to provide you with facts regarding Islamic theology and law. you can't argue with the reality (though you try) so instead you question anons credibility.

I'll just take your idiocy as another excuse to post Muslim related content.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVi4f5sgeGg
>Islamic authority explaining the details on how to properly kill your wife (as dictated by Allah).

Now for some information on regular Muslims, not authority figures. Just normal people living their lives according to Mohammad's example.

http://madworldnews.com/wife-gang-raped-muslim-gift/
>A Muslim woman is gang raped by her Muslim neighbors.
>Naturally, she told her husband what happened to her.
>What was her husbands response?
>I divorce you.
>He then took custody of their 4 year old child.

This is the culture you are defending.

>>7963
I am not defending the culture you brainless moron.
You are still stuck with:

>Your logic:
>They stone people, therefore they don't like art.
>A, therefore B.
>What is missing is a believable reasoning why you think "If A, then B".
>So long as you don't deliver on that part, you have nothing.

>>7961
Basically for people not in on it, "behave humanly" or "behave in human ways" is one of those signature phrases you see a lot in islamic sermons and religious texts. It's as distinct as "praise the lord" in Christian stuff. It relates to the doctrine of Islamic "common sense," that Allah implanted all humans with the innate desire to follow his plan for them-- this is why it's considered good to impose islam on everyone. People who don't behave in Islamic ways are behaving "inhumanly", an inherent contradiction, and are abhorrent to the proper order of the world.

This is also the reason why women have to cover themselves up. If a man sees an attractive woman, and feels a tingle, that's supposed to be allah telling him to rape her immediately. So it's considered "common sense" to keep them as tightly bundled as possible, so Allah won't force men to rape them. Humans behaving humanly indeed.

So he's religious. This is the reason real common sense can't get through to him. He keeps on (incorrectly) reducing other people's arguments to one or two propositions, because that's how so much of religious reasoning works. As long as you can reduce an argument to one or two propositions you can easily understand (eg his assertion that I said that muslims are barbaric therefore they don't like art etc..) you can be assured in your own mind that you're totally correct. I've seen this pattern with Christians before, but the muslims I've dealt with before have been too busy shouting threats to actually even try to have a semblance of a debate.

It's a waste of time to talk to him. I should have picked it out so much earlier. smh.

>>7961
>>7969
Are you saying non-Muslims don't use the phrase, even in a context that calls for it?

>>7971
Not really. It's a little bit of an awkward phrase in English, but I see it often in Islamic works.

>>7972
You're wrong, by the way. But don't let that stop you.
If you're going to use prejudice against Muslims, why not do the same with me as well?

In fact I do think we were misunderstanding/talking past each other. The fact that you brought up the immigrant Muslims seems to be a clue. Those are clearly radicalizing, and since you brought them up, you are probably thinking of a change going on within the Muslim community. And I would agree that Islam is getting more medieval and fanatic at a frightening pace.
That is however the very problem I was speaking of. The less Muslims can live their lives, the more they will radicalize.

>>7964
You lack a sense of irony. You're making a strawman in order to accuse me of making a fallacy.

They stone people as a matter of punishment for various harams. This is what Allah dictates.

Their dislike of art is a different matter, but it is all wrapped up in one totalitarian ideology. For instance, testimony from artists is to be disregarded.

I provided Koranic passages and statements from Islamic authorities which verify that art (music, singing) is considered haram (forbidden). Seems like you deny facts and are very quick to forget them, here's the post >>7710

I don't want to just repeat myself so let's keep this productive. Here's another informative youtube video.

Three Stages of Jihad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERou_Q5l9Gw

Jihad is considered the greatest honor to Allah. The greatest form of Jihad is to die in the name of spreading Islam(that means killing non-muslims).

>>7974
>The less Muslims can live their lives, the more they will radicalize.
Your implication is that it's the west that's preventing normal muslims from living their lives.

>>7976
Not necessarily.
I am convinced that they *would* want to live their lives if they knew how to.
Why they don't know how to do it is a question that I cannot answer in a satisfactory manner.

>>7977
To expand on that:
If it is not the fault of the west that the Muslims inside their countries are radicalizing, then it is still our responsibility.
It is not our duty to shelter every one in our house. We can consider it the morally right choice (even if that's wrong) but if we choose to shelter somebody, then that person is our responsibility.
If you can't make sure that people integrate into your community properly, do not allow them entry into your community.

>>7978
>radicalizing
there's that word again. what does this even mean? honestly someone explain it to me because I do not understand what is implied by that term.

the people we call "radicals" are doing exactly what the Koran commands. they are religious fundamentalists.

they're only radicalizing if you consider the religion itself to be radical.

>>7986
Have you looked it up?

>>7306
Gay thread, but this specific article is really interesting to read.

Puts many things into perspective.

>>7199
You are not the arbitrator of what defines a legitimate source or not. Go back to reddit with that "every source I don't agree with sucks" bullshit.

>>7697
>Fuck your sophistry you virtue signaling cunt.

These reddity types are more concerned with being tolerant while there are people out there who want to literally behead them. They won't understand until they get enriched by one of them, then their beliefs will do an instant 180.

It's easy to be pious from the sidelines.

>>7740
>Some pat critique without substance. I see it so often with academics... they selectively apply these "rigorous" standards only to things they disagree with-- while shit like critical theory gets a pass.

absolutely spot on

its amazing how redditors get so easily btfo without their voting system to hide behind

>>8338
>>8339
>>8340
>every anon I don't agree with is from reddit

I'm probably the one the guy who was calling out redditors agrees with most in this thread, and even I cringe.

Calling someone a Redditor isn't a one-stop-shop insult. You could have called them commies, or cunts, or fucking lizardmen, there are so many other substantial flaws in their arguments and presentation you could have pointed out. Being obsessed with Reddit only shows you have no originality and nothing to add to the conversation besides OMG MAYMAYS.

>>8709

expecting anything other than hivemind kneejerking from 4chan is setting yourself up for disappointment

just like reddit

>>7196
Sweet, things are finally heating up and looking like a real insurgency and not just bar fights getting out of hand

It seems like the crusades and inquisition all over again, just from a different folk.

I am against interference of developing people and countries.

>>7976
>>7977
People fall back on what they know if they aren't given time to sufficiently develop their society on their own, be it tribal or religious.

You enter the middle east, stir a hornets nest, the spread leads to injury, now as the world watches, all must wait for things to settle.

>>8089
>Using gay as an insult
You need to be at least 18 to use this site anon.

>>9834
Stop being a faggot.

>>9834

>being this new

Absolutely happening

If you live in Europe, consider getting the hell out of there

specifically mentioned Washington DC, Paris, London, and Rome, among others

and ISIS is only JV

http://newscenter.lbl.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2010/12/IceCube-schema.jpg