lmfao
>California legislators and labor unions have reached an agreement that will take the state's minimum wage from $10 to $15 an hour.
>At $10, California already has one of the highest minimum wages in the nation. A hike to $15 would make it the highest by far, though raises are in the works in other states.
http://www.ktvu.com/news/113794217-story
They're not going to try... maybe a 12.50 dollar wage ?
They're going to go all the way ! Everyone gets left behind !
>>34315
I mean whats the worst that could happen it seems like california is doing well so far
I'm no fancy wall street economicstician, but wouldn't raising the minimum wage affect the prices of almost everything else? Does raising it have any long term benefits?
>>34421
Wages are a small part of the price of goods, raising wages 50% will not lead to a 50% rise in the price of goods.
>Does raising it have any long term benefits?
Western civilization as it currently exists.
>>34421
This doesn't happen as much as scaremongers want you to believe. More money in the pockets of the poorest workers more than covers the price hikes and in fact stimulates demand so more crap gets sold.
People who were already doing well may end up paying more but they can suck it up.
>>34424
Very true, but it can also increase unemployment, and push us more towards automation of simple tasks. For example, many fast food restaurants in NYC are automating the ordering/cashier process in order to remove workers they need to hire.
good. workers all over the world should demand better pay. that includes you reading this too
>>34430
I want the economy to be STABLE and that means shit jobs get such low wages that the person employed doesn't think of them as a permanent anchor and they actually climb the ladder of employment like they're supposed to...
>>34433
lol le climbing the ladder myth
love this meme
>>34436
It's not that hard to become a manager, Jose. If you can stand making burgers in place all day and you show up on time they'll give it to you.
>>34440
Would you be interested in joining my multi-level marketing company friend? You sound like the kind of high-flyer we're looking for
The minimum wage increase is meant to cover cost of living increases / inflation that has already happened, ie, for the past decade or more, corporations (and even mom and pop shops) have gotten away with paying unusually low amounts. They were given this period of time to save that money and/or plan for the future when the minimum wages they were forced to pay would catch up with the cost of living.
Instead, they have wasted their ingenuity on fear campaigns and spent all of their extra money on executive salaries.
believe it or not guys, this increase still won't help. I live in the SF bay area, the average cost for an apt is $2300 a month. that means making about $40 / hr for one person or three $15 / hr full time employed people to qualify for an apartment. the 30% of pretax household income formula comes from the bank i used to work for.
>>34497
Wow. That is eye opening.
I line in a cheap city in Canada, it's not terrible, but not too great either. I'm paying $625 a month all inclusive for my one bedroom apt. In an o.k. neighborhood
>>34442
housing costs in the bay area are the number one economic killer around. there are fully employed people sleeping on the all night bus because they can't afford housing. this is why i laughed my ass off when no nothings were rallying against that girl who wrote her letter to her CEO.
At $12 she could not afford a 500 sq ft studio apt in a sub par neighborhood in SF. She was whiney about it, but the fact that her company made over $350 million last year says a lot about their claim to need H1-B visas to operate. They don't want to pay american grads what they are worth because they can get immigrant labor with a masters and 10 years experience for what mall cops make.
>>34502
its hard to get the message out to non californians. I have lived in other cities where $15 an hour was decent money. Here, you can afford a room for about $800 here if you can find it.
>>34305
what are yall american faggots bitching about?
what you bitches make in an hour we make in a day in Mexico
>>34507
the complaint is that fully employed people can't afford to live in the same county that they work in.
I know it sounds whiney but it strikes at the core of what it means to be an american.
>>34305
Adios, commieconomy
>>34511
well, not really. See, everyone thinks we are a bunch of dope smoking hippies, and while SF, Berkely and Santa Cruz have some far out grooves, the rest of us here are falling victim to the free market. If housing costs were regulated then there would be a correlation between the minimum wage and local rents. as it is, so long as you can find customers, you can rent your apartment for an amount that in some cases exceeds a mortgage in other parts of CA.
>>34506
In Detroit that's almost enough to afford a 3 bedroom apartment.
>>34516
this seriously hurts local small businesses too. no one has much disposable income so it affects everyone. can't buy my hotdogs from my stand so i can't buy gas from the station so johnny can't buy my stupid hotdogs!
for the record, I don't sell hotdogs for a living.
well I guess im not buying oranges any more.(OR MILLIONS OF OTHER FRUITS AND VEGETABLES THAT COME OUT OF CALIFORNIA REEEEEEE)
>>34512
THIS
these cocksuckers are protecting their profits
the real problems are the cost of rent, healthcare, and higher education
but thats the other side of the same coin
Rent is indicative of demand, you liberals/wage cucks can ask for $20/hour and it still won't save you.
And if you cap the prices lower, demand goes up while supply stays the same. If you can't put 2 and 2 together, you deserve to be pushed out.
>$15 minimum wage in california
>less employment
>higher prices
>pick three
>>34497
All the signs are saying "go live elsewhere" but still more people come.
What is even the appeal of SF? It was relevant in the 60's and 80's for a couple years but has progressively become a mecca of burnouts and tryhards. We haven't been relevant or interesting in decades. Why not populate a city that actually needs more business?
>>34305
>import spics who can only do manual work
>raise minimum wage to 15$
Genius.
>>34497
Then don't try to live in SF on minimum wage?
I mean really. I'm sure there are much cheaper areas right outside the city
>>34568
yes, rent reflects demand. However, if you don't have a place for working class and middle income families, your economic eco system starts to collapse.
>>34572
prove it!
right now we have an implosion of small businesses because Yelp and other big tech companies are abusing the H1-B visa program. Entry level employment is tricky for new grads, high school kids, senior citizens who can no longer afford to live here after a life time of working here, middle aged folks who got squeezed out of their previous careers and the list goes on. Soon, those minimum wage service jobs will disappear due to automation. Then what?
>>34586
No, I am not talking about immigration into the tech center of California, that's a different topic (but i welcome them too). I am talking about people who were born here.
The appeal of living in SF is the excitement of a major american city, alive and pulsing 24/7. You have to try it once in your life if you can!
I have no idea why there are not more industries choosing Vegas or Omaha, but weather might be a factor.
>>34612
Again, missing the point. In this case, the immigrants are from India, have on average a BS in CS and 3+ years of experience. and they are working for Yelps starting wage of $12. its horrible for the local economy, and its illegal because of the constant flow of american new grads with CS degrees. Its the kind of gaming of the system that usually enrages fiscal conservatives.
>>34624
No, its everywhere. For the apartment that i used to rent in San Bruno / South San Francisco back in 2011 now costs $3000 a month.
the $2300 is for San Jose, about an hour or so south of SF where most of the tech jobs are.
the most affordable places are in Hollister, Los Banos and south and east of there. In those places you can get a one bedroom for $1400 a month, but now you are driving 90 minutes on the road each way, plus fuel at $3 a gallon.
>>34691
Well yea, San Francisco has a number of advantages
-water
-normal climate
-center of the tech industry
-good food
-water
I'm pretty sure the reason so many people move there is because its the nicest city in california to live in. LA is having a drought, and the rest of California is like a mixture of farms, mountains, and desert, so there isn't much liveable areas. It just seems like everybodies first option when moving to California.
>>34429
automation of low/non skilled labor will happen with or without a raise hike. Go to any chain grocery store or big box store. How many self check out lanes do they have? Hell go back further to when every night club and upscale bar had live entertainment. If you wanted music you had to pay a whole band to play for you. As soon as the jukebox was invented it started to replace the bands costing a lot of jobs a long the way. It's inevitable.
In all reality with technology always improving it won't be long before almost all no/low skill jobs are done by some form of machine/technology. Once there are none or hardly any of those jobs available if America doesn't have a strong education system set up it is going to tank. We will not be able to compete with countries focused on education.
Just wait for huge amount of truckers that are going to be losing their jobs to autonomous driving trucks that they are already road testing. Sure the unions might be able to push some legislation so a trucker has to be behind the wheel but it will only help for so long before the safety with self driving trucks goes above that of human driven ones and the legislation is changed.
>>34433
If you want a stable economy then demand that we educate our youth until they have the skills necessary to compete. Right now we teach them until they are smart enough to learn shit jobs that won't even exist in 20 years and then demand that they put themselves in debt before they can have a 'real job' (for the 90+% that's parents aren't paying for college). Don't give me shit about grants and scholarships either because that still leaves a majority of people being fucked over with debt. In fucking America everyone should be able to goto school until they are skilled enough to earn a job that will keep them out of poverty.
Oh you could also demand that any large company in America that makes a large profit off of their super low wages has to pay taxes equal to the government assistance (not things like wic and care source but food stamps and housing.) their employees use since if they were paid an OK wage they wouldn't need the assistance.
>>34750
Quality post. As a rural person, I can say that over the past 20+ years industries that used to have a lot of human labor (specifically farming) have switched over to a large amount of automation and the trend isnt looking to reverse ever. Small-hold agriculture cannot compete with the assets that acreages in the millions are able to afford. This is pretty anecdotal evidence I admit but I feel that a trend is definately observable, and minimum wage rates are insignificant next to the rates of the jobs that would rank minumum wage being replaced with automation.
>>34427
>People who were already doing well may end up paying more but they can suck it up.
And the middle class? Poor people "make more" with the hike, and the rich folks can afford it. How about the middle class? They get to pay a little bit more for goods without seeing a pay raise?
What a sweet deal for the backbone of the economy.
>>34441
lol roasted
>>34750
My fear is multifold and you hit me right in the face with it. According to an economist that slips my mind, we are at 80% service jobs in america. once those fall to automation, that's it. I love the buggy whip argument from the movie other peoples money and it is so on the nose its scary. but thats a lot of people out of work and afraid in a country that is built on hating losers. simply put, we hate our neighbors more than we love ourselves.
We have something like 1.1 guns per person, an active shooter just lit up our congress and this is now the norm. Imagine when real unemployment reaches 80%
our education system is a sick joke but thats not the secret here. the trick is even if we educated 100% of the youth, a lot of employment is personality based. its unusual to find someone with the personality and intelligence and family support system in place to study and excel in tech or medicine or whatever the future holds.
i think about those truck drivers a lot.
Holy shit we're really gonna do that?
God damn.
>>34507
you'll have plenty of work soon. Building a wall should keep you busy for at least a few months
>>34785
shut up, kid! you are going to ruin my new business plan, smuggling americans into mexico where they can get a job, a burrito and a 4/10 wife.
>>34694
Sacramento is pretty cheap, got a 3 bedroom for $1500. I don't really like the area, but if you're dead set on living in Cali then it's not bad. Might wanna check out the areas around there, too.
>>34777
We need to pass some kind of bill that severely limits what companies are allowed to do with automation, or maybe ban it outright.
Of course, good luck doing that with OR without corporate America in control of everything.
the living wage didn't increase linearly with the cost of living, so a raise isn't going to hurt, people are only getting what was owed them.
I'm so glad our tax dollars are going to those lovely McDonalds employees *cries while wiping my ass with tax dollars* #IfICantBeRichNoOneCan
>>34771
Middle class people work on minimum wage, too.
Fuck the middle class
Lynch em, theyre all shitty narcissists that couldnt care less if we all died of starvation
>>34806
That's just ridiculous. At that point jobs don't exist to fulfill any kind of need or want. They'd only exist to be an income distribution system. The better solution would be to implement some kind of guaranteed income system.
>>34305
Awesome. Union power.
If you want to improve your conditions, learn the beauty of collective action.
>>34691
>The appeal of living in SF is the excitement of a major american city, alive and pulsing 24/7. You have to try it once in your life if you can!
I actually did grow up there, the weather is boring as fuck (lol overcast and chilly every fucking day, no snow, no summer, minimal rainfall). None of the musicians I wanted to see ever stopped there, it was always oakland and san jose that got the love. As far as culture and food, why not rebuild a city like portland or denver rather than flocking to some tiny, overpopulated, overpriced penninsula under a permanent blanket of fog?
>state is in massive debt
>high unemployment
>high cost of living
>highest poverty rate in the nation (Google it)
>high taxes
I know, let's raise the minimum wage!
>>34824
Exactly. Some day we won't need to work and everybody can be a lazy fuck. The problem is going to be the in between time, when low skilled and maybe even some medium skilled workers can't find jobs because they've been replaced, but moving to that guaranteed income system doesn't quite make sense yet.
>>34806
This is a notion that will kill entire industries and destroy lower class jobs instead of saving them. Companies won't be able to compete with multinationals that are automating and will lose out to them. You can not stop technology from evolving.
What should be done is a dramatic refocusing on education and emphasis on jobs which cannot be automated (at least not yet).
>>34315
I'm sure they've done the math behind this but still a 5 dollar increase over 6 years still sounds like a big increase.
I guess its better that this happens than later. I mean historically when the gap between rich and poor gets too wide you get revolution like in France and China for example.
>>34820
>Middle class people work on minimum wage, too.
What fucking fantasy do you live in
Fuck me, why does everyone in the US believe they're middle class, no matter if they make 30k or 300k a year
>>34305
This is good news.
The last 40 years have seen stagant real-terms wage increases for the bottom 50% of the workforce alongside a frantic campaign to hoard more and more of the world's wealth by the top 0.1%.
The minimum wage has lagged behind productivity and living expenses for too long, whilst those at the very top have seen an ever-increasing share of the world's material and economic wealth fall into their laps.
Either start joining unions and demand good wages or accept these things indefinitely.
>>34440
You're stupid or you haven't worked for a long time yet.
Work place politics dictates nearly everything. The shadier scumbags, that can play nice in front of the right people, get ahead quickly and fuck a lot of people over before they get caught and tossed. If you're referring to monkeys off the street, they get tossed before even given the chance to cause havoc.
You'd be surprised to learn that most people can't use half a brain cell for mopping, filling out repetitive forms or moving boxes let alone managing more than one person, themselves.
>>34874
the only time rubberbanding is a good thing
>raises prices of everything else
1. nope. history proves this isn't true.
2. prices go up regardless due to other factors. never raising wages doesn't keep prices down.
>people will get fired or not hired to begin with
false again. we can see proof of this right now. some states that are right next to one another have different minimum wages, yet there is no significant difference in employment rates.
if a company needs more labor they hire. it's simple as that. doesn't matter what minimum wage is.
>>34844
It already makes sense, it's just a matter of convincing people that it makes sense.
>>34907
explain where I'm wrong then, please. Going to make up some numbers here for an example.
Lets say I pay a guy $10 an hour to cook hamburgers, and I then sell one hamburger per hour for $15 each, and lets say that it costs me $4.90 to buy the ingredients for each hamburger.
I am profiting 10 cents a burger per hour.
Now the minimum wage is increased to $15.
If I do not increase my burger price by at least $4.90, I will lose money on every burger I sell.
However, you claim that prices will not rise.
I understand that this example I gave is silly in how simple it is, but I think it illustrates my confusion to your claim pretty well.
So again, If as a company I lose more money on paying my employees, how would my prices not reflect that change?
>>34914
I like how you admittedly dream up this entire scenario and try to sell it off as facts thinking it's a valid argument.
>>34507
>my shitty thirld world wages can allow me to pay for my shitty third world lifestyle, why can't you live in a first world country with only a little more pay?
This is why your country is owned by yhe cartel, filthy shitskin.
>>34914
Your example implies that most businesses make incredibly small profit margins so they'd be forced to raise the cost of their product to survive. The problem is that it'd be more like they were making $50+ dollars an hour in profit so an extra five or ten wouldn't make an impossible to survive dent in the margin.
>>34421
no not really. Most larger companies don't take hits on their budgets from wages but rather from the price of the goods they buy to make the products. Keep in mind, those making less than $15 make up about 15% of the workforce.
>>34919
could you point out where I stated anything in my example was a fact?
It's a valid example, just because numbers are exaggerated to showcase the point of my question doesn't mean it isn't. If you can come up with a response that actually requires you to think let me know, otherwise you're wasting people's time with "haha I don't agree with that you're dumb"
>>34923 gave an actual answer.
I know using arguing with personal anecdotes is bad, so take this with a grain of salt. Yes my sample size is astronomically small and may not translate to any other companies, but this is what I know:
My family runs a business installing commercial walk-ins, and when my dad gives quotes on how much it will cost the contractor/client, a good 75% of that quote is labor, and around usually 20% covers materials. Even with a 5% profit margin, due to overhead and bills, sometimes we have to borrow money just to make payroll. Increasing the minimum wage by a few dollars, at least for this one company, would have our prices skyrocket.
I have a hard time believing that there are a negligible amount of companies in the same position, but I have no proof to say either way.
>>34931
I have no doubt that smaller businesses would be adversely effected, and I do believe everyhing you're saying. However, in big cities and places like Cali that already have high prices and are generally run by large business, a small increase shouldn't make a major difference except in the case of incredibly greedy management. It probably would adversely effect small businesses and that is definitely a problem. The only solution I can think of is government subsidies or something to help smaller businesses.
>>34934
As a side note, I'm on my phone at work right now so doing proper research is a nightmare, and I'm completely assuming my big businessdominant theory. So I could be totally wrong and should probably look into this more later.
>>34875
>Fuck me, why does everyone in the US believe they're middle class, no matter if they make 30k or 300k a year
There is truth to this. As a college kid scraping by with what I can, I see my roommates making big money decisions pretending that they're Middle class. "We need a bigger place to stay in!" "I'll refinance that car later!"
But honestly, no one in America wants to admit they're lower class. Our semi-egalitarian ideals from our Constitutional framework breeds us to think that we're all in the middle somewhere, and if you're a special snowflake, then you magically get to be upper class.
>>34989
Also to add on to this, we have these Classist ideas in our heads that only those who have something wrong with them are lower class. We think that the only people who are lower class are trailer trash that we see on COPS and maybe some urban minority family that doesn't value our Protestant Work Ethic.
>>34914
Labor should not be 66% of the cost of the product.
Indeed it would be if your theoretical cook could only produce a burger an hour or you don't get enough customers. Lack of customers being because of bad service or publicity and inept cook being inept.
Think about this. The more product the cook makes, the less his labor costs, relative to product cost, no matter what he is paid. It's not about how much you charge but how much you can move. That's how fast food works and it is similar to restaurants and department stores as well, the places that have the most low paying work.
Your $4.90 burger will always be that, $4.90, but the cost of labor will go up and down depending on the sales you make on your burger. If you sold two burgers an hour at your previous price of $15 each you would be making $10.20 an hour for profit with out moving the price of the burger.
>>34440
>It's not that hard to become a manager, Jose
Let's make everyone managers! then no-one will have to do any work and we can all be rich! Genius!
It's good to see the Capitalist apologists justifying and defending poverty wages ITT - nice for them to be open in their shitting on the working class for once in a while.
>>34511
> Do work
> Get paid
> Communism
You must be thinking of slavery, where the laborers do work and are not paid for it.
>>35000
Technically ALL costs of a product are derived from human labor.
Honestly 66% of your expenses being direct labor production is good. It means your unnecessary costs like taxes and management are fairly low.
>>34750
Not sure how much I buy into the idea that education will resolve all of this. Afterall, how many highly-educated jobs does an economy really need? Even presuming that educating the entire (or near so) populace to obtain high-skill employment is a feasible goal, can an economy of only high-skill labor accommodate said populace? And even if it could, there's no reason to think wages would remain constant... increased supply (of skilled/educated labor) and decreased demand (since such labor would hardly be scarce) practically guarantees a drop in wages regardless of the cost to educate everyone.
>>35072
You're being facetious.
I read a bit more and the Anon I was responding to had experience in trade business, not customer service or more specifically, food service. I don't know why he conflated the two since they have different vehicles for making money. One offers quality products for a price and the other offers products of quantity on the cheap.
>>35072
>taxes
>unnecessary cost
And this is why half the world's economies are failing. Look, taxes are in place to redistribute wealth back among the entire population in some way shape or form, be that in welfare or infrastructure investment. Going to huge lengths to no pay back your due is senseless and greedy fuckery that actively reinforced a growing wealth gap.
After working in a casino, people have absolutely no right to bitch about not having money. All I did was watch people throw money away tens of thousands of dollars at flashing lights. People have the money, they just choose not to use it on things they need. Now being unemployed I can get any brain dead job and be making just as much.
>>34771
>Oh, who will protect the poor, helpless middle class?
Are you fucking listening to yourself
>>35383
My area is getting a Casino built. I'm excited and for it, and realize it's nice tax money for the city, but I just know it's going to hit hit the poor in the city super hard, and there's going to be a lot of bad that comes from it.
The statistics for populations around casinos are really bad.
>>34305
meanwhile in Denmark, the minimum wage is 21 dollars. You don't even have to pay taxes for the first 3500 dollars you earn in a year. Shit's pretty good tbh.
It is about time the pay raise should increase seeing as inflation caused by the few are fucking the many. Without a pay raise,the poor will be left in the dust. Now this change will inevitably be counter-acted by those who get so butt-hurt about people getting paid more, but this a start to change in the nation
>>34875
>What fucking fantasy do you live in
A lot of wealthier households have spouses and older children working on the minimum wage.
In the UK at the moment we're enacting substantial increases in our minimum wage and the analysis of our Office for Budget Responsibility shows that households in the 7th income decile are gaining more from the higher minimum wages than the bottom decile
I can't wait until the burger flipping liberals get replaced with machines
>>34427
>they can suck it up.
^The phrase most commonly said before a fucking riot.
