Are electric bikes, used non-competitively, cheating?
>>934065
no, but they're no fun
>>934066
What about if you derestrict them?
>mfw I frequently go to a hill nearby to climb and there's a group of faggots on electric bikes going up and down it
For what purpose
Well, you're not going to get in shape on one, but I don't think there's anything wrong with commuting on one.
Mountain biking on a souped-up high-current e-bike is it's own kind of fun, I'm sure; halfway between mtb and dirt biking.
I wouldn't say it's cheating.
Riding an e-bike is still better than riding something that uses a combustion engine to haul your fat ass around.
At least most e-bikes require some kind of effort (at least on hills).
I used to ride one when I first got back into cycling and used it to commute everywhere.
When my legs got strong enough, I stopped riding it and eventually sold it.
You can't cheat in recreational riding because the only rule is to have fun.
>>934086
> there is no reason you can't put in the same or more physical effort on an electric bike compared to a regular one.
This. Sure you have the option of being lazy and just using the motor (it's a nice option to have on a commuter, sometimes I'm knackered after work and just want to get home as soon as possible so I turn the power all the way up) but that doesn't mean you have to. It doesn't replace your legs, it augments them, you can put in exactly the same amount of effort and you'll just be going faster.
>>934081
>Mountain biking on a souped-up high-current e-bike is it's own kind of fun
It can have huge advantages off road, not only does the increased power make climbing a lot easier (either stuff that would be really hard without the assist or just in a higher gear than normal without the hassle of having to shift down) but the constant power delivery makes it easier to ride on loose terrain.
Regarding the cheating aspect, if you like a challenge then I suppose you could be cheating yourself. That said riding off road it can create it's own challenges, the faster you go the more skilled you need to be and sliding around when the rear wheel loses traction can be tricky to control.
>>934065
E-bikes are for the weak.
Pathetric bike
HEY GUYS, I'M REALLY STRONG (WAY STRONGER THAN YOU AND YOUR DAD, SERIOUSLY) AND ENJOY DOING CRITS, ROAD RACES, AND RIDING ON THE TRACK AND I THINK ELECTRIC BIKES ARE REALLY FUN TO RIDE WHEN YOU'RE NOT BEING A HARDCORE WEEKEND WARRIOR ON A MTB (FAG).
You can stop signalling by shitting on e-bikes now. You are anonymous for fuck sake. Some people also have practical uses for electric personal transportation, but fuck them for not being HARDCORE like you. I don't even own an e-bike, but I would love to have one just to fuck around on like a dipshit.
>>934117
>the only rule is to have fun
Friendly reminder that having fun is an excuse for being bad.
I don't really see anything wrong with them, I think that pedal assist would be something that I'd use if I was riding really steep areas to get to work and didn't want to sweat too hard.
If it gets people outside, doing at least SOME exercise it's good in my book.
>>934293
you need to take a chill pill. people hate electric vehicles. See: prius
>>934892
Because the Prius is a piece of shit (although it still sold really well). Take the various Tesla models as a counter argument, people love those.
>>934147
Well said buddy, on all points. My 62 amp mtn bike is a lot of fun, but being a hard tail and using safer, less power dense batteries (HEAVY), it's not as fun on super chunky terrain, but rips on the smoother single track. But mostly just makes an awesome sturdy commuter, rode it all winter every day to work in the ice, snow, whatever.
Once you go powerful enough it's more like a moto, or dirt bike workout. Takes plenty of endurance and some strength just handling a beast of a bike at high speed.
My main passion is still mountain biking on pedal-only bikes, but the e-bike is just a completely different feeling and having some decent torque is a looot of fun. I want more, but it's already illegally powerful and I don't want to get too reckless... as 55kph riding is easy/comfy now.
>>934079
Getting to work without sweating like a harlot in church.
>>934859
>no fun allowed
I bet you're a lycra roadie who treats cycling as serious business.
>>934978
I don't think you really read that post
>>934978
You asked for what purpose, and I gave you one. E-bikes are great for commuting without sweating while getting to places quicker, on time. I'd rather have the populace on e-bikes instead of cars.
>>934984
He asked for what purpose are they repeatedly going up and down a hill, which is clearly not getting them to work.
Fun to try to beat em. Specially up dem hills.
>>934995
Nothing sadder than some roadie autist competing with a commuter on an ebike. I see this all the time and it's so pathetic to watch.
>>935017
I'm just trying to catch a 30mph draft man
>>935017
Not sad if I win handily.
Cheating what? Oh you bikers, fuck you all
They're not "cheating" but they are usually operated in an irresponsible fashion, riding on sidewalks and so on, because they attract people who are too unfit to pedal a bike without having a heart attack, and therefore end up getting a bad reputation. This is why they're banned in my city, although it's not very carefully enforced.
>be hungry, out of shape skeleton
>buy electric bike
>feel like I'm in shape
feels good, man
>>934859
Get a load of this guy.
>>935072
>turbo autists
How can you win if no one is willfully competing against you?
>>935191
Easily.
>>935397
>if no one is willfully competing against you
Yes, but not as bad as cages
>>935514
Makes it pretty easy, then.
>>935077
Where are they banned?
>>935017
I got overtaken by an e-bike commuting up a slight incline today.
I arrived at my destination dripping sweat. Shit sucks, I want an e-bike.
>>934065
Racing down a beach on this bitch would be fun fun fun
>>935719
>everything is serious business in the 21st century
For once can we enjoy life or is the pursuit of happiness exclusively relegated to the 90's?
>>934909
Everything about this is phenomenally stupid.
And why are your bars rolled the wrong way?
>>934065
Only if you intend to use it for exercise.
>>935729
>why are your bars rolled the wrong way?
Probably aero. He could probably get away with a flipped riser stem and a flat bar and that way he wouldn't have the downward sweep (I suppose if you rotate the bars at the right angle it cancels out) but he probably already had the parts.
>>935945
As mentioned, e-bikes don't prevent you from putting effort in. Also it can help some people that perhaps don't have the strength to otherwise ride, such as an injury or medical condition, or those whose routes would be interrupted by frequent hills that they wouldn't otherwise be able to ride up.
Also if you really want to exercise just turn the motor off, then you can ride a heavy as fuck bike until you die and then turn it back on to drag your arse home.
>>935646
New York
If only they would actually enforce it. The law is only used when the authorities want to bully a specific business owner by going after the delivery guys
It's similar to the restaurant health inspections in that regard
>>935729
What's stupid about it? It's supremely functional. ~50kph the entire way on my commutes, every day, all year. Effort, or no effort. As much as I feel like. This thing handles like a beast too, in a good way. Rails the corners, mad lean angles.
>>935956
As for the bars it was indeed for aero, as well as getting more weight forward on the front wheel for cornering. Yeah a flat bar would work better probably, or upside down rise stem but using parts I had already. It's comfy enough, my wrists only start to complain a bit after 70km of riding.
>>just turn the motor off, then you can ride a heavy as fuck bike until you die
Haha. yes... I've been without power once due to a faulty BMS. I can pedal this thing up 20% grades alright without motor but it's hella slow due to being a solid 90lbs.
Most of the e bikes I see look like electric BSOs. So they are basically accidents waiting to happen.
That said I know there are some nicely designed ones. But those are out of the budget of 80% of people who would buy an e-bike.
Why not just get a motor bike?
>>936058
Less licensing
Less maintenance/upkeep
Ride cycleways, cyclelanes or road, even footpath
Still get some exercise, as discussed
Easier to park
Save the planet
No helmet
Cons: not riding on the motorway.
So basically, depends completely on your situation. But you knew that... Why am I answering you
in a perfect world.... e-bikes would be fine because people would use them responsibly
in parts of northern california, mountain bikers have done the near impossible of dealing with local governments and anti-bicycle sierra club to build legal mtb trails. one of the early ways that selfish environmentalists banned bicycles from some trails was to get courts to interpret bans on mechanized vehicles in wilderness land to mean a ban on bicycles.
unregulated e-bikes threaten the access to public land that mtb advocacy groups have fought for. unfortunately this is an area where bicycle manufacturers and bike shops are at odds with some mtb trail advocates.
If I had my way there would be a new, very lightly licensed category of electric mopeds, with similar registration requirements that many cities already have for bicycles, and these mopeds would be allowed on streets, but could not be ridden on sidewalks. they would default to no-access for trails on public land unless specifically signed as allowed for e-bikes.
>>936018
that looks stupidly fun.
>>934117
Fuck you mopeds are the shit. And you get around 70 miles from a quarter gallon tank in my friends case, and they are fairly quiet. He pays less than 1$ a week for gas if he's only commuting
>>934859
Everyone sucks a little bit when they start, but getting better is part of the fun you fucking kill-joy.
ebikes are fun, i just wish that people treated me with the same respect i show them. that is why i got a gopro
>>938125
How so? I have nothing against that bike, it's partly what inspired me to do mine and I'd love to take it for a rip, but it's more a kin to an electric motorcycle and the sort of thing that a lot of cyclists hate.
>E-bikes for on-road use
If your makes your life easier, go ahead. Modestly powered models (<300 W max assist) ought to be afforded the same privileges as unpowered bicycles.
>E-bikes for off-road use
MTB riders have worked long and hard for many years to secure (often tenuous) access on lands both public and private. Keep your motorbike of their trails.
>>938127
the way i look at it, it's an e-bike done right. Still able to be used like a bike, with enough power to have some serious fun on the trails or help out on long climbs etc. etc., but it's not so much that you're not able to take it on trails. It also looks really well constructed, instead of those garbage cruiser frames with cheap chinese motors strapped on them. It's the perfect middle ground between a bicycle and a motorcycle
>>938129
>Keep your motorbike of their trails.
Sure, I don't want to see bikes with multiple kilowatts tearing up trails, but you're over generalising when it comes to using electrically assisted bikes off road. Many of them would do no more harm than a solely pedal powered bike.
>>938133
>with enough power to have some serious fun on the trails or help out on long climbs etc. etc., but it's not so much that you're not able to take it on trails.
You do realise that thing has like 4000w? Sure it can limited, but if he opens that thing up you can bet it's going to tear up the trail. Not implying that's what he does, but it definitely has the capability like any other high powered bike (and any rider also has the option of riding them sensibly and not destroying the trail).
> It also looks really well constructed, instead of those garbage cruiser frames with cheap chinese motors strapped on them.
Right, so you're making the assumption that just because some bikes are garbage they must all be. There are many other well put together electrically assisted bikes out there, DIY or from the factory, low or high powered.
Yes it's a very nice electric bike, no it's not the only one in existence.
>>938129
>Keep your motorbike of their trails.
>their trails
>>936086
>if I had my way there would be a new, very lightly licensed category of electric mopeds
Norway is waaaay ahead of you there m8. They have two categories of ebike. The usual 25km/h EU unlicensed pedelecs, and a twice as powerful, 45km/h licensed category not allowed on cyclepaths more like a moped.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle#Legal_status
>>938125
I refuse to class that thing as an ebike. The law generally agrees with me in most sane countries too. It's a fine moped though.
>>938135
>Many of them would do no more harm than a solely pedal powered bike.
>>938358
>No one owns anything
Most trails where mountain biking is permitted are on private or managed public land where those responsible for said land care far more about minimising disruption and degradation than ensuring the largest amount of potential users can make use of it. It's far easier for them simply to ban all cycling than to figure out if the limit for e-bikes should be 4 W or 4 kW. If access for MTB is to be maintained to the greatest possible extent, it human-powered bikes must never be allowed to be confused with mechanically powered bikes of any description.
Yeah. I agree that my ebike is more of a moped.. but the fact it uses an all bicycle chassis and the pedals still are very useful and functional makes it a type of ebike as well. Legally it's a moped, sure.
It really won't tear up any trails more than a regular bike. It gets wicked traction and won't spin the rear off-road except when running slicks which won't dig in anyway and also when riding on loose rock. This thing shredds the gravel alley ways.. mad drifts.
It's too heavy and too hard tail to really be a trail machine though. Regular mtn bikes are a lot more fun than this on trails.
This machine doesn't replace my bikes at all. It replaces my car.
>>938371
Is there any evidence that electric bikes cause any more damage than human powered bikes? Hell, it could actually be the other way round, the smooth propulsion provided by the motor might result in less damage than the intermittent power from pedals. Perhaps we should ban all human powered mountain bikes if that proves to be the case.
>>938440
Have you seen places where people ride motocross or trials bikes? The current 250 W limit is pretty safe, but keep the more powerful ones away from the public woods please.
I'd love to see e-bikes gaining popularity on city use though. It would probably mean more cyclists on the road and that would push cycling infrastructure forward. I might even consider e-bike for commuting.
>>938527
>Have you seen places where people ride motocross or trials bikes?
Bear in mind that even a lowly 125cc four stroke has like 7kw at least and a modern two stroke can be 30kw+, then there are even larger engined bikes. The one posted earlier in this thread is just over 4kw and you won't find many more powerful than that.
On hard packed mud you'd struggle to do any serious damage on an electric bike, but on loose stuff or after it's rained you'll tear it up. People get all pissy when you ride trails after rain on a pedal powered bike, most people choose not to anyway as it's not exactly easy but having a motor behind you can make it a bit easier.
e-bikes are evil, they killed my mother and raped my father.
we should petition the provisional government to ban all electric bikes because they pollute the air and promote dissent against the provisional government.
>>934859
>STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE
>>936018
While that thing looks like a hilariously fun bike, I hope you don't take it out on real MTB trails. The combination of the high weight + torque you're putting down will seriously damage the trails.
>>938440
>pulling asinine shit out of your ass
It's all about how much power you're putting to the ground.
>>938689
There is some logic behind his point. With pedalling the power delivery isn't constant and when climbing hills you need to apply more power to overcome the point where power output is low, so peak output would be higher than if it was continuous. However, I doubt the difference is very large nor the difference between tearing up the trail and not.
Also this theory would rely on using only the motor as pedalling to assist the motor would reintroduce the varying output.
>>938696
Sure it's not stead output, but the peak power of me standing on a 175mm long lever arm is still hilariously low.
>>938706
For a pro cyclist, we're talking about 400W or so. For someone of average fitness, more like 200W. And the numbers get lower the longer you have to sustain that sort of power.
>>938440
You don't get it at all, do you? The only reason MTB access is considered anywhere with any degree of environmental sensitivity is because the people representing the sport can say "you know those dirt bikers who undeniably absolutely wreck the place? That's not us - at all". The second you introduce motors of any kind to a MTB, that distinction disappears. The people who run these lands are operating on the precautionary principle - you need to prove that e-bikes won't be doing the same harm as an MX bike, no matter how obvious it may seem to you. It's a losing battle in my view, and the risks to access of having MTB conflated with motorised activity are huge.
>>938706
>>938760
Erm, most mountain bikers can peak much higher than that when climbing in a low gear for a short time, we're not talking about a 20 minute road climb here. I can far exceed the output of my 500w e-bike if I wanted, if I was riding a trail with just the motor I'd certainly cause less damage and probably have to stop and walk some parts.
>>938810
How much power does your e-bike produce?
>>938828
It's hard to say as I don't know the exact efficiency losses due to heat, unfortunately e-bikes are rated by their power consumption and not the actual output.
Mine will peak at around 720w drawn. When I was reading some articles on Endless Sphere a while back I seem to remember efficiency being something around 50% at 50% speed, so if we go by that then it's around 360w at the back wheel, a number that's not hard to beat with pedal power.
>>938828
E-bikes can not be more than 250 W and max 25 km/h according to EU regulation. If it's more it's a different class of vehicle not allowed on bike paths or in general terrain without special permission.
There's probably a brochure I should refer you to.
>>938840
>it is not difficult for any old autist to knock up something which far exceeds those specifications.
Agreed. I just wish everyone would stop refering to these as 'e-bikes' and call them the unregistered, uninsured, untested for road worthyness DIY light motorbikes that they realy are.
>>938840
>Why are you being so evasive?
I'm not, I just can't give you an exact definitive answer. It was sold as a 500w kit but in reality the controller puts about 720w to the motor, how much of that power is lost as heat and noise I can't say for definite.
>>938864
> stop refering to these as 'e-bikes'
Mine is an electrically assisted bicycle, I don't really like the term e-bike as assuming the "e" stands for electric that could also refer to an electric motorbike such as those made by Zero.
>DIY light motorbikes that they realy are
Motorbike implies that it is solely motor powered. At most you could call them mopeds, but I do believe that refers to a vehicle intended to primarily be powered by the motor, with the pedals just serving to kick start the engine and exploit some legal loopholes.
>>938900
>Motorbike implies that it is solely motor powered. At most you could call them mopeds, but I do believe that refers to a vehicle intended to primarily be powered by the motor, with the pedals just serving to kick start the engine and exploit some legal loopholes.
wtfamireading.jpg
A moped is a powered vehicle with a maximum top speed of 25- or 45 km/h for class II/I respectively. An electrically assisted bicycle (shortened e-bike) is a vehicle with a maximum power of 250 W and top speed of 25 km/h assisted, or 20 km/h unassisted (under own power). There is also a class I-equivalent e-bike that I will not get into here.
Anything above that with is a motorcycle. These are legal definitions. There is no way in hell you can get away with calling your unlimited 750 W homebrew China motorcycle a "moped" just because it has cranks that you turn for show.
It's most likely not legal to use at all. At least not in any sane country.
>>938908
>There is no way in hell you can get away with calling your unlimited 750 W homebrew China motorcycle a "moped" just because it has cranks that you turn for show.
>It's most likely not legal to use at all. At least not in any sane country.
It's also not a motorbike, I only brought up the moped thing because someone insisted on calling it a motorbike.
It's an electrically assisted bicycle (no idea where that China part comes into, but whatever), it just happens to be over the legal limit for power output (which can be limited, as can the assistance speed). With multiple gears and a not that ridiculous weight it can be ridden just the same as a non-assisted bicycle.
Also, what country are you in that puts a blanket speed limit on human powered vehicles? 20km/h is stupidly low, there are hills around here that I can coast down at nearly twice that and it doesn't take much effort to get my 24kg bike up to that on flat ground even without the motor.
>>938917
>It's also not a motorbike
Legaly, yes it is. An illegal one too. You're just purposely sticking your head up your arse about it because you don't want to face that dun goofd.
If you buy a moped and remove the limiter - congratulations, you're now the owner of an illegal motorbike.
>>938917
>Also, what country are you in that puts a blanket speed limit on human powered vehicles?
All of the EU, son. I'd be greatly surprised if burgerland laws aren't very much similar.
Limits don't apply under human power. Only under own- or assisted power.
>>938926
>Legaly, yes it is. An illegal one too.
That would depend on where I am. I just looked it up an legally speaking my bike is a moped.
>ll of the EU, son. I'd be greatly surprised if burgerland laws aren't very much similar.
I'm in the UK, we only have a limit for the assisted speed. Are you sure 20km/h is correct? If that's the case then once you hit the 25km/h assistance limit and the motor cuts out you must also stop pedalling which just seems retarded. How is that even enforceable? You could be riding between 20-25km/h under pedal power and all you have to do is lie and say that the motor was helping.
>Limits don't apply under human power. Only under own- or assisted power.
So they only apply to electrically assisted bikes that have the power turned off? That's retarded too. What if you remove the battery and put it in your backpack, does the limit still apply? Also does it also apply for coasting like I mentioned earlier? It doesn't take a very steep hill to top that.
It must suck if you're out riding and the battery dies, instead of being able to put in more effort you're forced to ride home stupidly slow.
>>938932
Nigga, just ... sheeeit! Do you even parse, bro?
And flying fuck NO, your abomination is not a moped under UK law. Read it, son ↓
https://www.gov.uk/ride-motorcycle-moped/bike-categories-ages-and-licence-requirements
ANYTHING WITH TWO WHEELS NOT STRICTLY LIMITED TO AT MOST 45 KM/H IS AN A1 MOTORCYCLE. Caps because your reading comprehension seems seriously compromised.
>>938934
Who's to say my bike isn't limited to 45km/h? I think it can be limited all the way down to 10km/h if I really wanted. On flat ground it won't even reach 45km/h on just the motor.
The limit actually used to be 50km/h (~30mph), didn't realise they'd reduced it even further.
>>938935
>I think it can be limited all the way down to 10km/h if I really wanted.
If you (the user) can adjust the limit it's not legaly valid and still an illegal motorcycle. Why is this so hard to admit?
>>938946
The user of a petrol powered moped can also adjust the limit themselves.
If you want to talk about legal validity it's also not type approved, registered, or any of the other shit that goes along with making it legally ridable on the road (which I've never said that I do by the way). Thus the legal definitions don't really apply to it but rather the technical definition does, by which it is a moped or more precisely an electrically assisted bicycle.
What exactly is your aim here? Regardless of what we define my bike as it's not like it's a 100lb 6kw bike that goes 60mph that I ride on the road in a reckless manner, so what's the problem?
>>938952
>The user of a petrol powered moped can also adjust the limit themselves.
>>938958
So what is your rebuttal? It's certainly possible to adjust or remove the restriction placed on mopeds, some of them very easy to do so.
>>938900
>I'm not
Why are you being so evasive? Please express the power of your e-bike in standardised units.
>>936093
>>938125
>>936462
Thx bruhs. Ebikes are the best. I've had such a good experience riding it in my city so far, practically no negative interactions with any person so far... most people think it's amazing.
Passed a couple dozen cops, a few speed traps, ride everywhere, in the city. Pathways, fields, rough deep pothole alleys and roads, trails (hard pack city trails), other pedestrian areas. Always try to be courteous though and slow way the fuck down around children, animals, old people, people who wander, and especially blind corners.
Not even a single mechanical failure yet, other than a rear tire I destroyed on purpose.. 90lb bike, 160lb me (~170 with gear). Travelling ~50 kph, 90% of the time. This thing rules.
8000km so far, and at least 7k of those would have been on my 4runner. Not to mention that it only costs me like 10 cents in electricity to commute 30-50km in a day.
No matter how fit you are, even on a fast road bike good luck doing just under 50 continuously directly against a massive headwind, or uphill... It gets windy here.
>>939421
>Mixing unit systems
>No space between the number and the unit symbol
>Abusing prefixes and unit symbols
Re-read the SI Brochure immediately.
>>936018
>ripping through a golf course
FUCK YEA
>>939431
Yeah boi. Don't worry though.. I raked the bunker after :)
>>939501
Why bother? Country clubs usually have someone who's paid to do that.
>>940004
Meh... I just try to be courteous doing anything. Especially when I'm riding an illegal vehicle on private property. :)
But you're right it's not really a big deal if I left it, though I don't want to make a bad name for cyclists, there's enough of them out there doing that.
