Is Titanium superior to steel and aluminium in every way?
How does it rack up to carbon? I've never ridden a titanium bicycle but I'm thinking about getting a custom titanium bicycle as my next bike.
It sounds like the return on investment is extraordinary, it's hard to damage, doesn't corrode, lasts a lifetime, lightweight, durable etc.
>last a lifetime
titanium frames last 5 years max before they give out
>>901163
[citation needed]
>>901163
>my second hand opinion is a fact!
You can not make stiff chainstays out of titanium. There's not enough room for large diameters, and you can't easily hydroform it like you can with aluminum of make a giant BB/chainstay structure like with carbon.
You can not make an aerodynamic bike out of titanium, because again, you can't hydro form it. Technically, even steel is easier to shape (steel car parts are hydroformed), but steel stopped being a cutting edge material.
Titanium is really expensive compared to everything else, and it's not really any lighter than aluminum. Titanium is known to crack because of the heat affected zone during welding. New titanium frames seem to crack more often than new aluminum frames.
The prime time for titanium was when aluminum was on it's way out. Titanium was competitive with early aluminum. However, carbon beat them in terms of price per product, weight, lateral and torsional stiffness, vertical compliance and aerodynamics. The limiting factor of carbon being it is harder to make custom frames from, and people don't trust crashed carbon. But for a consumer that buys a new bike every 10 years and doesn't crash often, carbon makes perfect sense.
The good, titanium can last a really long time if it's not defective, but it's a gamble because of how difficult it it to weld. It also doesn't rust like steel. It can be engineered to be compliant (although stiffness is an issue) like steel. It's lighter than steel. Tech geeks think titanium is a sexy space age material.
Titanium is basically if you want a steel bike, but you want it to seem modern, be lighter, more technically advanced, rust-proof, and have more prestige attached to it.
However, modern stainless steel can do a lot of the same things, except stainless steel doesn't sound cool to non-cyclists because everyone has things made from stainless steel. On the other hand with stainless steel you can make a classic looking bike.
>Is Titanium superior to steel and aluminium in every way?
No, don't be stupid.
http://theteamrobot.blogspot.ie/2013/10/20-says-this-bike-sucks.html
>>901173
>titanium cracks
Yes, but only because titanium is more difficult to weld, meaning that titanium frames are sometimes welded badly. If a titanium frame is welded well, then it won't crack. Just get a frame from someone who knows what the fuck they are doing.
What tangible benefits does stainless steel have over regular steel and how does it compare to carbon?
>>901182
From what Ive heard, stainless steel is stiffer than regular chromoly steel so that the walls of the tubes can be thinner making a bike lighter. But stainless steel is more likely to crack or break rather than bend/deform like chromoly. Also stainless steel is very difficult to weld.
The average chromoly frame will weigh about 1750g, a stainless steel frame will weigh mabye 1400g, most carbon try to hit 1000g or less. If carbon frames were made as heavy as regular steel frames they would be very strong and unbreakable because they can be made very think due to their low mass (which is why carbon is superior to steel for MTBs). But unfortunately no one wants to make a heavy carbon road bike because no one would buy them.
>>901190
>Steel is the same stiffness of steel.
thats just plain stupid, there are major differences in strength between different grades of steel
>Tensile strength is not stiffness
never said it was
>>901191
>thats just plain stupid
No, you're stupid
>there are major differences in strength between different grades of steel
>Tensile strength is not stiffness
>never said it was
Now you're double stupid.
>>901159
>Is Titanium superior to steel and aluminium in every way?
Titanium is more "boutique" than either steel or aluminium. Titanium bicycles should not be ridden in a fluorine gas environment.
>How does it rack up to carbon? I've never ridden a titanium bicycle but I'm thinking about getting a custom titanium bicycle as my next bike.
Would you know if your custom builder gives you a bike make from stove pipe? Really? A good builder can create different ride characteristics from steel, aluminium, etc..., you'd need a magnet just to tell some of them apart.
>It sounds like the return on investment is extraordinary, it's hard to damage, doesn't corrode, lasts a lifetime, lightweight, durable etc.
Hard to damage - well, Ti frames are made strong enough to ride but they're not infinitely strong. They can be scratched by chain suck, dinged if other (Ti) bikes fall on them, and broken in catastrophic accidents.
Doesn't corrode - yeah, they're pretty good, don't need to worry about sweating on your frame.
Lasts a lifetime - in theory but bike technology changes so the 1" threaded headset on my twenty year old Ti frame makes it "old"
Lightweight - not compared to Carbon or even some Aluminium.
Ti tubes can be finished very nicely. My Dean hardtail MTB has a brushed finish, while my Moots road bike has a darker satin luster.
>>901197
Also titanium is unsuitable for the rear triangle of a full-suspension bike. You want those elements to be as stiff as possible so that rear pivots and suspension can move in a precise direction. If you make the Ti stiff enough it would be much heavier than aluminium or carbon.
>>901194
Seriously, read your posts and google stiffness and strength. Then feel bad for being so retarded.
>>901202
>google stiffness and strength
you have the mind of a preschooler, just keep babbling, its entertaining
>>901204
Are you serious? Do you even know what young's modulus is?
>>901173
Titanium is easier to weld then braze welding steel, all you need is 100% gas on titanium and the tig welder gets in really tight spots.
>>901214
ok, fine, just to get the thread back on track, you win, get we just stop now?
metals that are harder/stiffer tend to be stronger but are less elastic/malleable and so will tend to break rather than bend when stressed beyond a certain point
so this is why stainless steel frames can be made thinner for equal strength but will tend to break/crack more compared to chromoly. Also stainless steel frames tend to be made of larger diameter tubing so as not to buckle
>>901159
there's not much reason to use titanium for a bicycle frame; the best use would be for the coil springs in the suspension, or for the saddle rails.
titanium's main advantage is that it can withstand flexing much better than regular steel can.
It isn't particularly lighter or stronger, and it costs 10X more and is more difficult to machine and weld properly.
If you only used it for suspension springs, the weight difference would be minor and there's no machining or welding involved really--so the manufacturing hassles are minimal.
>>901277
No, because you're a retard that deserves to be made fun of. If I had a folder of smug animes I'd be posting them.
>>901239
Pretty much any frame builder will disagree.
>>901277
> Also stainless steel frames tend to be made of larger diameter tubing so as not to buckle
I want to post smug animes because you're stupid.
>>901283
>I want to post smug animes because you're stupid.
fine, whatever
>>901181
>Just get a frame from someone who knows what the fuck they are doing.
And how do I know if someone knows what they are doing ?
>>901198
W-what if somebody tried making a lugged Ti frame with chrome-moly or stainless steel stays?
>>901460
how about Ti frame with carbon stays?
>>901344
I think buying a Ti frame is like how people who buy custom cars either know about cars themselves or know someone who can advise them.
Ti in my experience is all about ride quality, its more of a best of both worlds (steel+alu)
I thought about that, but I'm a bit uncertain of the long-term durability of the bonding involved with carbon-to-metal, as compared to metal-to-metal brazing.
>>901523
My uncle once had his carbon headtube separate from his chromoly lugs on his old vitus, got hurt p bad
>>901506
is that a moto?
>>901163
lol what?
>>901197
>Titanium bicycles should not be ridden in a fluorine gas environment.
I think protecting the cyclist against the fluorine gas environment would be higher priority!
>>902458
Please refrain from expressing your emotional reflexes, especially in this mass response fashion. This practice adds nothing of value. In fact it detracts from the overall quality of the thread, as it represents an irritating hurdle for those who reads discussions using backlinks to follow a discussion.
>>901197
Titanium frames are usually unpainted. They allow the welder to show off their skills. You can think of a titanium frame as piece of art that you can ride.
The downside of titanium frames is that there are limited sources and types of titanium tubing. It is very expensive to have special titanium tube shapes fabricated. A frame builder has limited choices in tubing diameter and thickness.
Modern hydroformed aluminum and carbon bikes have many 3d design options. They can mimic or exceed the compliance of titanium frames. It remains to be seen if they have the same service life as a titanium frame but clearly AL frames can be made in a factory for a much lower unit cost.
Why high-end carbon frames are fantastically expensive (more expensive than custom built AL or steel frames) is a mystery to me. Manufacturers say its because their high-end carbon frames require lots of time and specialized hand labor.
Has anyone here ever ordered a custom titanium frame from china?
I've heard they're not necessarily any worse than NA/EU titanium frames but I'm pretty skittish about buying one.
>>904554
I wouldn't risk it.
>>904554
They're not worse, and believe it or not, nameless Chinaman probably has more experience than boutique white hipster guy who puts out a couple frames a month.
The problem is no warranty. TI is something you want a real lifetime warranty with because they're prone to spontaneously cracking, and there's no way to know if you get a good one.
>>901159
>Is Titanium superior to steel and aluminium in every way?
Almost. It is more difficult to weld. Therefore, if your frame was built by an inexperienced welder, it may fail. If it was built by an experienced welder, then it is as good as steel and aluminum in that regard.
Due to the fact that titanium is more difficult to weld, it will be more difficult to find someone to repair your frame if it is damaged (so steel is a better choice for touring in remote areas and third world countries where you may need a frame repair, and also for SHTF for the same reasons) and titanium is also of course more expensive to fix.
Titanium is also known to be more expensive so thieves are more likely to target titanium bicycles.
Other than that, there's not really any advantage to steel or aluminum.
>How does it rack up to carbon?
Comparable, probably. The only titanium bike I've ever ridden was a lugged frame made of both titanium and carbon fiber. It was one of the best riding bikes, if not the very best riding bike, I've ever ridden, so from my experience I would say titanium is nicer than carbon. But that's just going by my limited experience.
>>901163
>shitposting this hard
You must be Australian.
>>904631
> Therefore, if your frame was built by an inexperienced welder, it may fail. If it was built by an experienced welder
Not true, you can find pictures of cracked Serrotas, Sevens, Litespeeds, whatever. Sometimes something just goes wrong, and you really can't tell until it cracks.
So when will Korean Alusteel frames finally be available?
