He is proof that rapping skill and complex lyricism doesn't by definition make good music. One of the best rappers, and most of his albums are mediocre or bad.
Hip-Hop is more than just how good of a rapper you are. Agree?
>>65954856
yes, obvioulsy
>>65954856
I thought this was common knowledge and why other rappers like Canibus and Aesop Rock are known garbage
>>65954856
Rap is a meme genre, only 15-20 year old nu-males listen to it and have cringe serious discussions about
>>65954941
>only 15-20 year old nu-males listen to it and have cringe serious discussions about
so /mu/ then
![1880cb0f9fd99d092a3a69bc2447fa2d[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/w6BLqH9.jpg "1880cb0f9fd99d092a3a69bc2447fa2d[1].jpg")
>>65954941
>thinks rap is a genre
>>65954879
>>65954885
A vast majority of the underground Hip-Hop community spend the entirety of their dialogue on hip-hop centred around who was the "GOAT", and who is the best rapper.
Most of the supreme dick-riders of rappers use their rapping talent as defense for their worship.
Tupac is apotheosised purely for how he rapped, his albums aren't even that highly regarded.
I don't think it is common knowledge at all.
>>65954941
>>65954967
Ah the b8rs have arrived. Wouldn't be /mu/ without you autists.
>>65954967
>thinks rap is music
>Listening to nigger music
He has more solid albums than Nas, lol.
>>65954856
Em isn't the best bro.
He is the best to white people.
White people who don't listen to rap.
So let me get this straight...white guys and women that don't know shit about current or past rap get to choose who is the best in the world.
Ahhh america!
>>65955278
Rakim, Kool G, and Big Daddy Kane have mentioned him in their top 5 of all time.
He only had 3 shitty/mediocre albums
Yeah obviously.
He's good from a technical perspective but he can't write actual songs to save his life.
His hooks are god awful.
>>65955338
So does everyone or be black balled
He is too big to fail
But trust me when I tell you nobody in any hood is playing slim shady bro. Hahhahahshshshshsuhhahahahahahahah
Its funny to even imagine black kids bumping eminem
>>65954941
lol i'm 21 dude how that make you feel lol
>>65955408
>black balled
>GOAT artists who are pretty much retired from the record industry entirely
STAY WOKED UP
>>65955408
Why are you pretending to be some hood rat? We all know you're a 14 year old virgin white kid from suburban America.
It's not about what people choose to listen to, it's about objective skill level. Eminem's objective skill level is high. His rhyme schemes are very complex, his wordplay is very clever.
>>65955338
>Rakim, Kool G, and Big Daddy Kane have mentioned him in their top 5 of all time.
>these niggas matter
There is no best of all time, that is a old head way of thinking.
>>65955168
nas only has one album that doesn't make me cringe desu (yes that one).
>>65955409
so you're like 14
>>65955408
>>65955453
Unironically typing like you're on /r/blackpeopletwitter is embarrassing.
(t b h)
>>65954856
His first three albums are amazing.
After that he became the proof, however he fucked up his production and flow so I don't agree with you 100%.
Well yeah, rapping is only one facet of hip-hop, it stands to reason that just because you've got a technically proficient MC that doesn't necessarily mean you've got good hip-hop
>>65955168
Eminem has 4. Nas has 3.
Infinite
The Slim Shady LP
The Marshall Mathers LP
The Eminem Show
Illmatic
It Was Written
The Lost Tapes
>>65955502
If we're talking "solid" I'd argue that maybe Stillmatic could be included
>>65955453
>>these niggas matter
jesus christ this thread is mind-boggling
>>65955546
not him but stillmatic feels like a failed attempt at ilmatic 2 to me and I can't separate that feeling from it.
>>65955546
I think Stillmatic is hella overrated because it was compared to the previous album, Nastardamus. and Nastradamus was especially garbage.
>>65955446
>It's not about what people choose to listen to, it's about objective skill level.
Not the guy you're talking to but seriously wtf are you talking about?
If we are talking about who is the "rap god" then yes it does matter if people are listening to you.
A god with no followers is just a guy that thinks highly of himself. Also I agree eminem is held high due to his race. He makes some cringe worthy songs man! My name is, purple hills,guess who's back, smack that,bizurk, without me,ass like that,etc. If he was black he would have lost his deal a long time ago.
The entire genre of hip-hop is a meme, as it's objectively inferior/cheaper music.
We've tried to make ourselves believe rap is an "essential" genre and that if you don't like it you must be close minded. That's why this music has no staying power. All of rap is just a sub-genre of top-40 pop, with a "urban" paint job.
This music doesn't stand the test of time, it's a fad. That's why rappers are discussed about like fashion. Image/fashion/numbers sold are actually considered when talking about them.
Rap is just a really cheap/lazy form of music anyways. The majority of rap beats are just stealing (MUHH "SAMPLING") another artist's music, looping it over a generic drumbeat while someone raps over it. The "technical aspects" of rapping are not hard at all. That's why there's 14 year old white girls on YouTube uploading themselves flowing with ease and speed, dropping multis like it's nothing. But because they don't fit the image of a rapper, no one would take seriously. I've listened to it all from backpacker shit (cLOUDDEAD, dalek) to the "golden days" (Rakim, Kool G Rap) to 90's (Wu-Tang, Nas) to today (Kanye, Kendrick) etc.
All rap is meme rap. Rap is not quality music. It's more of a guilty pleasure, like fast food. I guess it can taste good for a little while, until you realize how cheap and unhealthy it is.
>>65955593
>My name is, purple hills,guess who's back, smack that,bizurk, without me,ass like that,etc. If he was black he would have lost his deal a long time ago.
I'm a em fan but I never looked at all his failed tracks on a list. Lol that's more than I thought
>>65955593
>A god with no followers is just a guy that thinks highly of himself.
This isn't about popularity. This isn't about how good their music is, or how much people like this. In fact, this whole thread is about the opposite of what you are saying.
Canibus is widely regarded as one of the best rappers but no one listens to him cus he made shit songs.
Being the best rapper is not about how many people listen to you or how popular you are. How good their music is is a subjective issue, how good of a rapper they are is an objective issue. It has nothing to do with popularity.
You could create a pretty uncontroversial list of standards to judge a rapper and determine a skill level from that. I would argue such a list already implicitly exists and is pretty unanimous.
Things like:
Rhyme schemes.
Metaphors that have a large amount of figurative layers.
Genericness vs Originality.
Word play or manipulation of word definitions.
We know that popularity wouldn't be a standard because there are so many awful rappers that are big or who have sold loads. Canibus is an objectively more skilled rapper than 50 cent for example.
>>65955650
>The entire genre of hip-hop is a meme
Stopped reading there. No one cares about your b8, pls leave thread.
last night i had dream that eminem released an album really early in his career (like around '97 or '98) called "I Feel Good". It was a really short LP, like 28 minutes, and it included about 8 or 9 tracks that all could be considered "industrial hip hop" from its excessive use of high pitched noise and distorted drumming. The lyrics were basically whatever you could find on the slim shady LP: rape, murder, suicide, but the only difference is that it was done in a much more serious manner, like reading the diaries of a serial rapist. The cover art had no text and was a picture of intestines with parasites in them.
>>65955718
Totally ignoring all of eminem failed attempts
Em is white people's stake I'm hip hop because time has shown white people love seeing white people do things and claim they are the best while others can do better
>>65955793
>stan
>>65955650
>I've listened to it all from backpacker shit (cLOUDDEAD, dalek) to the "golden days" (Rakim, Kool G Rap) to 90's (Wu-Tang, Nas) to today (Kanye, Kendrick) etc.
wow that list really goes on...
>>65955798
But across his career, he has been a great rapper. Even when he was making shit songs. That's the whole point of the thread. I could take passages from a lot of the shit songs that were listed and show really good lyricism in them. Just cus it amounted in a shit song doesn't take from him using good rap technique on those shit songs.
Eminem is amongst the best rappers. It's true what you say of people like Elvis and Frank Sinatra. But Eminem is as good or better than the vast majority of black people in the genre.
I like Mac Miller
>>65955650
>until you realize how cheap and unhealthy it is.
14 year old edge lord confirmed. Pls fuck off summerfag.
>>65955842
>But Eminem is as good or better than the vast majority of black people in the genre.
Nope, but I bet to yo white faggot as he is
You can't relate to most rap so when a white boy comes along talking a bunch of weirdo shit you hop on his dick.
Why you think macklemore got 5 grammy
Lil dicky gets XXL cover and a hardies commercial
Iggy azalea Hahahha
I guess I'm crazy tho
>>65955994
I'm black. I grew up in a shithole in England. It may not be a gutter-tier US ghetto but I can relate somewhat.
Macklemore is an okay rapper, not Eminem level. Iggy Azalea and Lil Dicky are both awful rappers.
You're confusing popularity with skill level again. It seems you aren't very intelligent so i'll probably stop this conversation.
>>65955994
The fact that you cite three random bad white rappers and compare them to Eminem tells me you have no grasp on prose whatsoever.
>>65956100
>prose
>>65954885
>aesop rock
>known garbage
are you fucking kidding me anon?
Marshall mathers lp is not mediocre nor bad though.
name ten rappers who can rap better (in a technical sense) AND have better wordplay than Eminem ON HIS FIRST THREE ALBUMS (Infinite, SSLP and MMLP, not all the crap after).
>you can't
>/mu/ is so filled of nu-males now that they hate objectively two of the greatest hip-hop albums of all time (sslp/mmlp) because the rapper is white
JUST
>>65956091
>I grew up in a shithole in England.
So basically the burbs
I'm from chicago 75th and Paxton and trust me no nigga ever pulled m up playing my name is or any of that fu shit you play.
>>65956380
>Most of his albums
Pls read anon.
>>65956384
The point of the thread is that he is technical. So, I don't understand what you are trying to argue.
>>65956433
>The point of the thread is that he is technical
He's a lot more than just technical. He's a great storyteller. Easily top 10 all time
>>65956433
Ok cool. Thanks for the intelligent discussion anon.
Eminem is the most important artist in hip hop that ever lived, posting on mu won't change facts
>>65956459
Do people not understand the point of the thread?
OP is not putting into question his skill or ability. Just that skill does not equal good songs. And he is an example of that. Talking about his storytelling skills has nothing to do with how good his songs are.
>>65956509
>being good at making songs has nothing to do with how good his songs are
>>65956509
>Just that skill does not equal good songs
Yes it does.
>>65956479
>Most important artist in hip hop that ever lived
>not rakim
im not even a big rakim fan but he is by far the most important hip hop artist.
>>65956545
>11:14:49
>>65956546
11:14:49
65956545
65956546
Damn...
Confirmed Eminem makes good songs then
>>65956545
Even if he told a good story. The beat could be shit, the hook could be shit. The point is there is more factors than his rapping skill.
>>65956479
>most important artist in hip hop
Only because in America a white guy that raps fast to mask he can't stay on beat is considered rap good.
Why you think they always give em white boy teir beats.
He can't even catch the beat if he was given a trap beat.
>>65956558
True because he paved the way for Eminem with his multisyllabic rhymes, but aside from him it's close
>>65956608
>raps fast
Kys faggot
Eminem doesn't at all rap fast you fucking idiot. If you're gonna criticize something at least know what you're talking about.
>>65956586
This is like saying I don't know that riffs in metal are unimportant tho, skills and storytelling are extremely important in the genre. And a lot of eminem songs are AT LEAST ok from a lot of other viewpoints
>>65956608
>Why you think they always give em white boy teir beats.
>He can't even catch the beat if he was given a trap beat.
>they're having a non-ironic serious discussion about meme rap
>white teenagers, at that
oh god, this is rich
>>65956608
>trap beat
wew lad
>>65956433
Go to the west coast plenty of LA niggas would bump em
Reminder that HE MADE IT CUZ A WHITE BOI isn't an argument
>>65956693
I gotta second this. My bro and I pointed that out a few years back. How can he be rap god and he only can spit on goofy white rapper teir beats. Mind you I'm white and my bro is italian.
>>65956735
>>65956433
That's because black people have shit taste. They only bump the niggiest of the nig stuff. Anything remotely feminine they denounce. They wouldn't listen to classical music, rock, or jazz.
>>65956745
So don't tell the truth?
Would he have his contract still if he was back with all those failed attempts? Probably not
>>65956829
Are you a nigger or a cuck?
>>65956794
>black people wouldn't listen to jazz
>all good jazz is from black people
>Jazz's biggest contemporary audience was black people
Pls don't turn this into retarded race discussion.
>>65956829
Marketing is not based on innovation, it's based on trying to sell a comfortable, stereotypied and recognizable product. At the time of SSLP rap was associated with blacks and people were fine with it.
>>65956794
Not the same guy but I'm black I listen to sia, Miguel, smashing pumkins,coldplay, young thug, old gucci,classical,Norman Connors, Minnie ripperton,mac millrr, riff raff, selena gomez.
Don't generalize without knowing brah
Check my music
soundcloud.com/ronniescholarship
>>65956881
Go out to the hood and find one black person on the streets that would even give jazz a fair shot. You really think black people would even listen to the Beatles? Lmao you haven't spent enough time around black people. They'd call you a faggot if you played something like Radiohead or the Smiths
>Jazz's biggest contemporary audience was black people
False desu it was white people
>>65956693
True
Em can't handle a real rap beat of today
He needs those bong bong boom style beats lol
>>65956948
Yeah but you're already on /mu/. Now go to the hood and play that stuff for them and see what they say.
>dr. dre beats are "white boy teir" now
i'm getting too old for this board
>>65956981
I'm from chicago and I listen to beetles. Name some currents rappers that aren't white tho.
>>65957002
>>65956693
>>65956608
>This blatant samefag
>>65957020
I'm in the hood nigga
You think you the only one with the Internet?
What you think all black people are stupid and all whites are computer hackers?
>>65957049
Dre was hot when?
His beats old as fuck and tired.
Of course a white bipod can rap to tgat bong bong boom bap shit
Put em on a metro booming,mike will or sonny digital beat and watch him embarrass himself.
>>65957105
>I'm in the hood nigga
Okay now play that music for them. Heck play this and see what they say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9kj2lOwyss
>>65957056
Not even brah. You mad people don't agree
>>65957146
>Put em on a metro booming,mike will or sonny digital beat and watch him embarrass himself.
>>65957176
>>65957146
Okay I'll bite first off Dre is regarded as one of the greatest producers in hip hop. So how exactly are his beats "white boy tier". What exactly makes a beat "white". It sounds to me like you're just racist. Plenty of black rappers respect Eminem and show him that.
>>65957207
Yeah that's just terrible b8
His early albums (the best ones) have aged like milk because of the edginess that was prominent at the time. It's a shame because he's, like, talented but at the same time his content is just so deplorable and about as mature as the white trash 12 year old I once was. His current stuff is just sad because he's aching to stay relevant and revive his earlier image but he's fucking old and lame.
>>65955502
I would replace infinite with relapse
>>65954856
Kinda true I guess, but you can also blame the era. He was leaning heavily on Dre beats at the time when Dre was outsourcing most of it to Scott Storch, one of the most annoying songwriters of all time.
>>65957265
Is calling stuff bait the knew way to avoid making a counterpoint?
Actually I have been wondering when people would realize this very fact.>>65957241
>What exactly makes a beat
Play my name is
Then play futures wicked
Bankroll fresh hot boy
ASAP rocky long live ASAP
Drakes pop style ft jay z and kanye
White boy beats are basic goofy style beats
Like thrift shop lol
Emceeing is different from making music as it's mostly focused on demonstrating ability and centered around braggadocios lyrics and wordplay. Eminem did this and also combined it with pop for a white, mainstream audience. The reason why he is so popular because during the early 2000s hip-hop was experiencing popularity, he took that popularity and mixed it with his own vibe creating a music palatable for the masses. Hip-hop is like rock n roll now. It's dead. Trap has replaced it. Rap is different from other genres because of this divide, I think.
>>65956981
>Implying the hood makes up the majority of black people.
It does not.
>>65956384
Doom
GZA
Method Man
Ghostface
Raekwon
Redman
Nas
Vast Aire
Bigg Jus
El-P
Vinnie Paz
There's some
>>65957412
How are people still responding to this obvious troll?
>>65956433
Shouldn't you be dead already you nigger
>>65956384
But anon his technique and wordplay got better with every record, sadly not his music or lyrics.
>>65955650
this is good bait
>>65957146
1993-2005
His "flow" is totally lacking. It feels almost sort of wrong when I hear him rapping,
"and somebody STOLE
my car radiO"
>>65957499
Eminem is a musical genius though
>>65957458
lmfao
>>65957438
>Eminem did this and also combined it with pop
>combined it with pop
Holy shit this has to be one of the most retarded statements I have ever read. Just a proof that mu shits on eminem without knowing what they talk about just to be le edgy patrician.
>>65956677
>lyricscominapasumannumansdoomaloomaclebratingleminatigluegndemoremoteranevermanoaming music you make elevator music
>>65957587
If you look at rhyme schemes and technique it got better as his records went on. The awful delivery, pop beats and "Window pane" lines ruined his music post relapse.
>>65957540
>2005
>Almost 12 years ago
>MUH Era
>>65957671
>"Window pane" lines
what does this mean?
>>65957820
The lyric from "Love The Way You Lie" that everyone makes fun of.
>>65957820
>just gonna stand there and watch me burn
>but that's alright because i like the way it hurts
>just gonna stand there and hear me cry
>but that's alright because i love the way you lie
>i love the way you lie
>.
>.
>.
>.
>I CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT IT REALLY IS
>>65957324
>His early albums (the best ones) have aged like milk because of the edginess that was prominent at the time
SSLP was goofy as fuck and MMLP's "edgyness" was product of the personal issues that had nothing to do with the time period and would've sounded just the same now. Perhaps with some trap tracks included so that local fags wouldn't cry that it's sounds too dated by not having enough digital vomit all over the tracks.
>his content is just so deplorable and about as mature as the white trash 12 year old I once was
Yeah, but now you're the true hip-hop connoisseur who only listen to mature music for mature people such as yourself. *tips fedora*
>>65957458
I like almost all of those artists but GZA and Nas are literally the only ones on that list who can compete with Eminem on the terms I said.
>>65957820
Theres some really corny jokes on his 2 newer records. Something about him looking out a window and being sad, then saying thats why they call it window pane.
>>65954856
>implying anyone actually cares about Eminem's rapping complexity other than white hipsters insecure about relating to the lyrics
If he came out with oh-so-intricate garbage he releases now, no one would care.
>>65958717
>why is this artist that made a bunch of great records famous for making those records, if he started with the bad records he makes now, he wouldnt be famous
white boy here (as if that should make any difference at all)
em is trash.. like actual garbage.. dude tries so hard to stay relevant but really his music is so corny its hard to sit thru. his technical skill at writing 'rhymes' clearly does not translate into good (or tolerable) music whatsoever.. drawing up comparisons to other rappers isn't proving any points.. his music is bad, the only reason he is held in such high regard is because he has 'technical skill' and because he is white.. how is this even an argument?
>>65956339
No. If I wanted to listen to the dictionary I would have bought the audio book.
>>65958772
>I have no reading comprehension
>>65958772
Naw he was saying what everyone knows.
The white guy rapping and roasting celebs gimmick has worm off.
Say what you want about current rap/trap but the fact remains that the bar and riding beat grade system has changed.
The bullshit eminem got away with no longer flies. Tupac couldn't even make it nowadays. Jay z is losing fans every day ....noone can be king forever. If elvis came back to life he would be trash aswell.
TLDR: Eminem was a gimmick grandfathered in by Dr dre (a known pawn of the industry ) then given 5 grammies to become above criticism.
>>65957146
>Implying 2001 still doesn't sound great
>>65959039
>>65959039
>sound great
Yea if you stuck in the past
Don't tell me you one of those kind of niggas!
>>65958800
Here come the stans
..but have you heard sing for the moment
Where he said Hannah Montana in a a bandana like Carlos santana eating golden grams with Santa
I'm like yea I heard that and nigga I wasn't impressed or nothing
>>65959439
wat? im a stan after shitting on em?
>>65954985
tupac was a mediocre rapper though. People suck his dick because he gave good interviews.
>>65955650
a "fad" that's been popular for 30 years.
>>65955409
NO
TRUE
SCOTSMAN!!!
