Reminder that a US court judge has decided that Led Zeppelin objectively did not steal the riff to Stairway from the song 'Taurus' by Spirit. CASE CLOSED!
They did even if they rule they didn't.
>>65892571
lol you know better than a US court judge?
who the fuck are you, buddy?
>le plagiarism meme
it's ridiculous this even had to go to court
>>65892598
>>65892598
here's a pic of me bub
> only the white band that they stole from gets to sue them
Led Zeppelin LITERALLY stole from blind African-Americans. Stealing from the blind is what scum do.
>>65892552
>stealing "intellectual property"
Why is copyright a thing?
>>65892626
lol you on a bender again, john?
why aren't you in the band?
>>65892598
It was a jury that decided, actually and apparently they were only allowed to look at the sheet music and listen to live musicians playing said sheet music.
>>65892635
Capitalism
They stole it and made it better. The original is garbage, that's why no one knows it.
>>65892628
They should've been gracious and mentioned 'bring it on home' as an hommage_cover, and mentioned the artist very explicitely every time it was first introduced. Instead, indeed, they robbed in a way far worse than regular plagiarism, like frusciante (pictured stoned above) tried to rob dreamjail, but is mathematically too retarded.
When judges become music critics you know the justice system is fucked
> tour with Taurus
> shamelessly rip off their song in the intro of Stairway to Heaven
> Make the most popular rock song of all time
> Get sued only 45 years later
> Have enough cash and influence so that they win the case
> JimmyPageLaughing.jpg
>>65892552
>hurr durr muh superior authority
fuck off, typical americans, if you have the money, you can buy your way out of anything
>>65892819
Zeppelin actually lost the first parts of this case, first they tried to stop it from going to court in the first place then they tried stopping it from going to court in America (or Britain, whichever it went to court in, can't remember atm). If money was the deciding factor in this case it never would've been a case in the first place.
>>65892628
> Stealing from is what scum do
> Torrenting music is right, record companies are evil
Let's just agree here that you can't "steal" music. What did they steal from them, fucking master tapes?
Yep, they should've given credit to black artists and Led Zep are notorious for this shit. But so what? These black artists would never see Led Zeppelin's level of success anyway, they were old and didn't lose anything.
Copying songs note for note should definitely be punished, but pretty much every justice system is inherently corrupt.
>>65892552
Lets all celebrate by listening to some Led Zeppelin on Spotify. I have Led Zep II queued up on it right now...
>>65893139
In My Time Of Dying
HEY HEY MOMMA SAID
Everyone stole from everyone back then. For example, Kiss swiped the riff in Detroit Rock City from Grand Funk Railroad's Footstompin' Music.
>>65893869
Ha, I just put that on right now and my cat got startled when the drums kick in.
>>65893869
At least that song was credited properly to the original authors.
Good. Accusations of "plagiarism" in music are fucking retarded, especially music that's ultimately based around blues and folk standards.
Everyone who seriously supported Spirit in this case did so solely because Led Zeppelin are popular and are "dadrock."
>>65892552
Good. It's pretty obvious Page used Taurus as a starting point for Stairway... whether or not it was deliberate or not.
Fact is there's very little that is similar to both songs though. Certainly not enough that the Spirit guys deserve writing credits on Stairway.
Those old blues songs were part of our American folk tradition. Britbongs were just a bunch of fanboys without the cultural connections to those songs.
>>65892552
The amount of material Zeppelin actually stole is only a small fraction of their discography. And even then most of the songs that used stolen material were so different from the original that it would be pointless to give them credit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWeejHJxGjs
When is this guy going to sue Spirit?
>>65894373
They didn't "steal" them though. Most of them were standards within the blues canon. Muddy Waters/Howlin Wolf/whoever stole them just as much as Led Zeppelin did.
>>65892552
but what does Michio Kaku have to do with this?
>>65894421
no zed stole them. stop defending a bunch rich sleazy cunts who wouldn't give a fuck about you
get a life
>>65894043
Mark Farner would lose that case in seconds--there's no way he'd compete with Gene Simmons's money and Jew connections.
>>65894390
Taurus has more in common with this song than Stairway to Heaven has in common with Taurus.
>>65894202
>>65893869
Bonny's drumming on that track is freaking insane.
>>65894421
*coughs loudly*
A significant portion of the blues songs they took were copyrighted and written by this man.
>>65894455
Top retort.
>>65894318
>Good. It's pretty obvious Page used Taurus as a starting point for Stairway... whether or not it was deliberate or not.
lol the mental gymnastics in this line.
so it's obvious that Page decided to use it as a starting point even if he wasn't cognizant of doing so. right.
and i love the purposefully ambiguous renaming of "starting point".
you should be a defense attorney.
>>65894478
And I'm an idiot because I forgot to upload the image.
>>65894478
Maybe so but you think HW and Muddy didn't steal licks from Robert Johnson, Leadbelly, and who knows who else?
>>65894507
>born 1915
Nope he's at least 70 years too late.
>>65894522
And you think Robert Johnson and Leadbelly were some unique composers who didn't almost exclusively recycle traditional music that was passed down to them from generations ago?
>>65894572
Hint: It wasn't just licks they took from his songs. Zeppelin agreed to pay him out of court btw, so it's not like even they'd deny it like they deny Stairway.
It's a no-brainer. Even if Page was like "yes I took their riff" I still don't think you could go through the courts, a settlement out of court would be the only option. If one ruling like this was to go through the entire recording industry would be fucked forever, everyone would be frivolously suing everyone until the end of time
>>65894572
>>65894522
And poor old Bob and Lead were dead before the 1950s even began, they never had a chance to make any decent money or have their nuts licked by white baby boomer kids like the postwar electric blues guys did.
I read some of Christgau's Bachman-Turner Overdrive reviews and he comments on the numerous purloined riffs in their songs.
>>65894043
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59QCx38n5sM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZq3i94mSsQ
>>65894609
Lyrics are generally traditional too but variate based on generation. Also settling outside of court is usually easier than actually going through a full civil trial especially if it's a high profile case.
>>65894776
>Lyrics are generally traditional
Lyrics of what?
>>65894421
>They didn't "steal" them though. Most of them were standards
Just because something is labeled a standard doesn't mean it's not stealing or plagiarism. Also not ever song they lifted from was considered a standard.
You think the Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, GFR, and every other blues-based rock group back then didn't steal licks from Muddy, Wolf, BB King, and others? Shit, why only pick on LZ?
>>65892626
come back we miss you
>>65894799
>Just because something is labeled a standard doesn't mean it's not stealing or plagiarism
Umm..yes it does. That's literally what traditional music is. Blues and other American folk music genres were especially ephemeral when it comes to their passed down standards.
>Also not ever song they lifted from was considered a standard.
The ones they """"stole"""" from black musicians are (i.e. every accused """"stolen"""" song that isn't Dazed and Confused or Stairway to Heaven).
>>65894495
>implying it doesn't count if it's not cognizant
Wtf are you talking about? He can use it as a starting point whether or not he's aware of it. And it's obvious he did since they toured together and he owns several of their albums.
That doesn't mean Spirit deserve credit for the song though.
>>65894865
The Stones were ordered to pay Johnson's estate once the courts realized his music wasn't PD too you know.
>>65892626
John plz save us Josh Klingfaggot sucks.
>>65894930
>The ones they """"stole"""" from black musicians are
Yeah every single song they took from a black musician was a standard. Fuck off dumbass.
Also they ripped off more music from white musicians than just Dazed and Stairway. Why would you even have this discussion if you don't know wtf you're talking about?
>>65895007
>Johnson's estate
What estate? The guy probably had all of $20 to his name when he died.
>>65895007
>>65894865
Adding to this, at least with the Stones they took Howlin' Wolf and Muddy Waters on tour with them well after the former had surpassed the latter as stars. The Stones were one of the few 60s groups/artists who put their money where their mouth is when it came to their love of the blues.
It should be said though that it was only Clapton (and yes, I know all about the Wogs story) who willingly paid the money when it was discovered Johnson's music wasn't public domain and he also paid the expenses for Howlin' Wolf's funerals. Janis Joplin got Bessie Smith a headstone.
What am I doing with my life.
>>65895147
He had kids and grandkids, etc who are considered his legal heirs even if they were illegitimate.
>>65895096
If we're resorting to "lol ur dumb xD" now instead of actually refuting points, I'd like to point out that you're the one who doesn't know what they're talking about. You literally implied two posts ago that traditional music can be plagiarized.
>>65895156
There was one other bluesman who died much more recently (90s-2000s?) that the Stones paid for his funeral. I forget the guy's name though.
Hey everyone, claiming that music can be "owned" and thus "ripped off" as a means of discrediting a musicians talent as a "songwriter" is literally rockism.
Everyone ITT bashing Led Zeppelin is ironically a rockist by definition.
Rockists GTFO. Go back to other website.
>>65895156
>and he also paid the expenses for Howlin' Wolf's funerals
Though Wolf was pretty well-off when he died due to his shrew Jew-tier money skills.
>>65893011
>These black artists would never see Led Zeppelin's level of success anyway, they were old and didn't lose anything.
They would have gotten songwriting royalties.
>>65895229
I'm not just calling you dumb. I'm telling you why you're wrong as well as calling you dumb. If you're going to pretend my posts don't count because I use well placed insults then enjoy taking the easy way out.
>implying traditional music can't be plagiarized
all music can be plagiarized dumbass. Just because it has a special label on it doesn't change that. You're equating the fact that it's not illegal to mean it isn't real.
>>65895260
Probably John Lee Hooker but part of me wants to think he died rich.
>>65895260
Hubert Sumlin
>>65895294
I wouldn't be calling them out if they didn't vehemently deny it.
>>65895320
If I recorded myself singing the song Amazing Grace who would I need to pay royalties to?
This song sounds nothing like Stairway, how is it supposed to be a ripoff?
>>65895360
You're fucking retarded and missing the point entirely.
>>65895380
Musically illiterite contrarians who hate le successful dadrock band insist it's literally the same song.
>>65895386
Top retort.
>It's plagiarism to rework a generic as fuck blues progression or lick
There were so many bluesmen playing the same stuff, it was all very similar. By that logic any time a pop song uses that one chord progression there should be a big shitshow about it.
>>65895360
Nobody. But if you changed the name and claimed to have written it yourself then you'd be a dumbass piece of shit and nobody would like you.
this is how sampling was born
stealing others ppl work and getting paid off it
thx led
>>65895440
Did Led Zeppelin """""steal""""" one of your songs or something?
>>65895406
>Top retort.
I can't seriously respond to that post. You're not even trying. It's also pretty obvious you don't read the posts you're responding to. You just skim them and pick out the first thing you disagree with. At least be thoughtful and have a firm grasp on the subject matter at hand before starting a dialogue.
>>65895325
Jeez, Bob. How many times can you make the same stale joke about JLH's age in every review?
>>65895489
>I can't seriously respond to that post. You're not even trying.
Now you know how I felt responding to your last post.
>>65895488
This is funny because in my OP I said Zeppelin weren't guily and Spirit didn't deserve a writing credit.
But since I simply insinuate that Page probably did (whether knowingly or not) draw inspiration from Spirit's song everyone reacts like I'm just some contrarian anti-zeppelin douchebag.
>>65895538
This post proves my last post right and you don't even realize it. Top kek m8. Maybe try reading an entire post for once.
>>65894318
>>65894318
This. The similarity is unquestionable. But it's not enough for them to deserve fucking credit. Maybe if this had come to light years ago it would have been different. But back then nobody would have given a fuck anyway.
>>65894495
You realize you can take from a song on accident right?
>lol the mental gymnastics in this line.
autism
>>65895156
>Adding to this, at least with the Stones they took Howlin' Wolf and Muddy Waters on tour with them well after the former had surpassed the latter as stars
Actually Wolf and Muddy probably reached the peak of their wealth/fame in the 60s-70s thanks to white rockers. They can't have been making all that much money in the 50s when they only had the small black market to sell music to instead of the huge white baby boomer market.
even the live version of stairway to heaven is closer to this riff
>>65895852
I never denied this. It's indisputable that the Rolling Stones were bigger stars and more wealthy than Wolf or Waters when they took the two on tour with them.
Especially given that it was the late 70s when they took Waters with them.
>>65892552
Even if they did rip-off the intro why would Spirit deserve credit for the song?
Spirit makes a mediocre 2 minute instrumental and Zeppelin makes an 8 minute masterpiece but oooooh there was a similar progression at the start so give them credit and money for everything.
Bullshit.
Besides, I mean, who cares about Spirit, right? Probably nobody except a couple of old hippies in California had ever even heard of them before this case happened.
>>65896014
This, seriously. Fuck Jake Holmes as well.
>>65895963
Take that chord progression out of Stairway to heaven and what are you left with? Nothing but the ending. It's the basis of the whole song.
If you wrote something that was the basis of the entire song you deserve credit for co writing it and thus you deserve royalties.
>>65896085
It wasn't even the same progression though. The Spirit song just descends all the way down. It basically just starts with the same chord... maybe the first 2 chords. After that NOTHING. That's the reason it's bullshit.
Also what do you mean it was the basis of the entire song? Yes it was the beginning and launching point for the song. But the song changes so much that by the time you're halfway through the beginning cannot be compared musically. If they were still using that same progression then you might be right... but nope.
>>65895588
congratulations, everyone here is cheering you on now
>>65896014
Fly swatting at an elephant desu.
>>65896143
>It basically just starts with the same chord... maybe the first 2 chords. After that NOTHING.
Stairway literally the same with more flourishes.
The only real difference is that Spirit ends on a D or something while Stairway does that G-A-A thing.
>>65896659
congratulations you resurrected a dying thread for a worthless post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPzVvP_Eutg
dumbest comments section i've ever seen on a youtube video. i highly suggest checking it out
>>65895963
>>65896143
please stop. you're really embarrassing yourself
>>65896980
Knowing what you're talking about isn't embarrassing though.
>>65896980
>Watching Colbert ever
>>65896980
>posts colbert
>sides with minority opinion
Plz stop, ur embarrassing yourself m8
>>65895963
>Even if they did rip-off the intro why would Spirit deserve credit for the song?
actual dazed and confused led zeppelin muttonhead logic
>>65897140
But they DID rip-off Dazed and Confused. This is a different case entirely. Stay on topic you add ridden child.
>>65894935
This. Plus, fingerpicking the song's key chord at the beginning of a song is pretty much the standard of any basic song similar to stairway or taurus. It was just unfortunate they happened to be played in the same key using the same chord shape. To keep it interesting, you can either ascend/descend the bass notes and/or ascend/descend the higher notes. Zep's defense was on point showing it's such a standard that it's been used for centuries.
The intro to taurus and even stairway are too simple to really claim as original unless it's note for note. Shit, even the very first song I ever wrote had this basic bassline descend while picking an open C chord. Not that hard to figure out on your own.
>>65897254
First poster to agree with me is a musician. Fucking shocker. Thanks m8
>>65896143
>It wasn't even the same progression though. The Spirit song just descends all the way down. It basically just starts with the same chord... maybe the first 2 chords. After that NOTHING. That's the reason it's bullshit.
Please point to the moment in the song where the similarities end.
You're talking shit.
>>65895360
god
>>65894043
Kiss also swiped the melody for I Was Made for Lovin' You from The Beach Boys' Heroes and Villains.
>>65897309
Similarities to Stairway in Spirit's Taurus begin at 0:45 and end at 0:53.
>>65894043
>KISS did it so it must be acceptable
holy shit
i could listen to led zeppelin fans talk about ethics in the music industry forever
can
not
get
enough
of
it
>>65897456
Where was that implied anywhere?
Excuse me but I believe that I can be of service on this question. I'm actually quite an authority on this matter.
You see, I am a 14-year-old Led Zeppelin fan who has been learning guitar for the past 3 months. I know quite a bit. Frets, chords, time signatures, the list goes on.
I can 100% verify that Stairway to Heaven was not stolen because I like it a lot and it would be uncomfortable to view it as being tainted.
Furthermore, who owns a song anyway? It's like, I'm thinking about a song, do I own it now? Can I get in a time machine and go to the future and sue the person who is going to make money off of my song in the future? I think you see my point.
Que Sera, Sera, Led Zeppelin forever.
>>65894043
The intro in Black Sabbath - Neon Knights? That's just the intro from Ramones - Judy Is A Punk.
>>65892552
>music
>stealing
good 1 m8
>>65897686
Top kek, top cringe because we ALL knew this guy in high school
He always grows up to be the obnoxious Radiosmeg fanboy in college
>>65897429
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gu-hzfhv10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOyKXFgnD2k
IDK about you, but don't hear it.
>>65898079
I never did like IWMFLY. Probably one of my least favorite Kiss tunes.
http://youtubedoubler.com/ITa
reminder that inspiration is not stealing and that you can't steal music
>>65898115
>I never did like IWMFLY. Probably one of my least favorite Kiss tunes.
>favorite Kiss tunes
what a sickening phrase
>>65898174
Detroit Rock City is a sick tune despite the burglarizing from Grand Funk Railroad.
>>65898219
nobody cares
stop posting
>>65897848
Eh, they both have a GD chord progression but I seriously doubt a bunch of British guys knew the Ramones. Their albums sold about 10 copies all in the NYC area.
Coincidence?
>>65898280
0/100
if you ever listen to the following bands, you don't belong on /mu/
Aerosmith, AC/DC, AFI, Audioslave, Kiss, Green Day, RHCP, NOFX, Puddle of Mudd, Creed, Limp Bizkit, all hair metal bands, Eagles, Three Days Grace, Vertical Horizon, Weezer.
>>65898374
>Weezer
>Limp Bizkit
>Aerosmith
Literally essential to /mu/ discussion
>>65898374
Don't forget GNR, Stone Temple Pilots, and U2.
>>65898174
It's mostly the cheesy Bee Gees impersonation Paul Stanley does on there that kills it for me. Also those whipcrack sounds.
>>65898440
>not liking STP
Ooooh shit taste never dies
Zep stole a lot of shit, a LOT of shit
But they didn't steal the riff from Spirit, honestly it's not even the same riff. It's just a descending chord progression in A minor, and it doesn't even end the same way.
That guy's just looking for easy cash
Again, Zeppelin stole A LOT of shit, but not that.
>>65894043
About GFR...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOyKXFgnD2k
Here's No Lies. Honestly, the chord progression and solos are the same as a million other 70s bands used. This could have just as easily been Tony Iommi or Allen Lanier or Richie Blackmore playing. Shit, I listened to a good chunk of Judas Priest's catalog including all their 70s albums and I recognize a lot of the same licks.
>>65898704
>That guy's just looking for easy cash
I mean, really? How much money could Spirit have possibly made? Not much.
>>65898860
He's suing Led Zeppelin, if I had a reason to sue them I'd sue them for a shit ton of money.
>>65898779
>Shit, I listened to a good chunk of Judas Priest's catalog including all their 70s albums and I recognize a lot of the same licks
eg. Delivering The Goods. Textbook 70s hard rock riff there.
Another victory for "dad rock"
/r/lewronggeneration BTFO
ITT: People who actually admit to listening to enough dadrock to recognize what bands stole what licks
What happened to you, /mu/? You used to be better than this.
>>65899055
Not listening to highly influential bands to look cool to your internet pals is pleb tier mate. Anyone who uses the term dadrock is pretty much guaranteed to be a retard actually.
>>65899096
Or how about not being the little shit in the 10th grade who thought listening to the Doors made him cool and how he'd talk about how shit that, like, Green Day and Creed were and he wished he'd been alive in 1969.
>>65899096
But it's not even patrician dadrock like Beach Boys or Steely Dan. There's actually people in here who unironically listen to Kiss and Grand Funk Railroad.
>>65899148
>>65899055
Found the post-2013 poster.
How about fucking off back to /r/lewronggeneration because your pleb nigger poptimism has quickly ruined this board
>>65899148
Good criticism of my actual points. I never mentioned people that wished they'd been alive to see bands live (though it's reasonable to wish you could see a band you liked live if they don't tour anymore, I think), I mentioned how fucking retarded it is to ignore massively influential bands to try to look cool.
Can you actually raise any flaws of every "dadrock" band that makes them worth mocking? And no, being dadrock isn't a criticism, that's just restating the same. What actually makes them not good?
>>65899199
And? Refusing to listen to bands because it's not seen as cool in whatever your community is is pleb as fuck. You're literally doing the same shit as people who only listen to top 40 music, just listening to what's approved by your peers.
I don't even like Kiss, but it'd be retarded to say they had no influence or weren't worth listening to.
Daily reminder that they both wrote it from this public domain work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKpbJ5Kjy2I
0:30
>>65899252
Yeah but Zeppelin didn't go on tour with Giovanni whateverthefuck
