Reminder that according to Scaruffi, the original Super Mario Bros. is a greater artistic achievement than any hip-hop album ever made.
He's not wrong
it is
>>65586324
Source
>>65586324
And that's absolutely correct.
>>65586341
>>65586485
>>65586494
Reminder that video games are not art.
Of course he thinks so, he's italian.
>>65586324
source
super mario bros movie > super mario bros game > every hiphop album
>>65586534
Reminder that if literature is art, music is art, painting is art and sculpture is art, a mix of them is art.
>>65586697
>a mix of them is art.
except it's not a mix of them
>>65586697
Every thing I had for dinner last night was food, but when I mixed them all together it turned into shit, so...
>>65586534
Neither is hip hop :)
>>65586697
who is the artist? nintendo? are dlc's and expansion packs part of the art too?
games are just things business produce to make money like blockbuster movies
>>65586751
Agreed. Art takes actual talent to make.
>>65586845
this same argument could be applied to almost any popular medium
>>65586845
>>65586697
okay motherfuckers. Aristotle says art is anything that doesnt have its own interior motion and that imitates nature. Therefore, SMB is art
>>65586887
How does SMB imitate nature?
>>65586887
Well, if Aristotle was alive today (god bless his soul), he would agree with me that video games are not art
I would know, I was his best friend
>>65586845
What about axiom verge, a game made by one person and with no dlc
>>65586324
>the original Super Mario Bros. is a greater artistic achievement than any hip-hop album ever made.
Well, he's not wrong.
>>65586918
hi Hermias of Atarneus, hows it going?
>>65586898
it captures the essence of stomping on mushrooms and defeating a dragon to save a princess. Like an epic fairy tale that you can enact within your home
He's right.
>>65586697
Except when it is made, marketed, and consumed as entertainment, of course.
>>65586324
Playing Mario is better than listening to Kendrick Lamar crying about nigger problems
>>65586982
so all pop isnt art
>>65586534
Reminder that the Super Mario Bros soundtrack isn't a video game, and it sure as hell sounds better than any hip-hop shit ever created.
ha what a loser, hes probably playing mario in his dead moms basement right now
>>65586920
Don't forget Evochron Mercenary.
That space sim was created by 1 single guy.
Even if you rounded up all the hip hop artists in the world,
gave them all the programming books necessary,
and put them all in a room supplied with food and basic necessities,
they would still not have the mental capacity to create as a group what this one guy managed.
And that my friends, is art.
>>65587006
>>65587011
>fuck (c)rap, it's not real music just niggers (IM NOT A RACIST BTW) talknng XD i was born in le wrong generation
>yeah i like video game soundtracks im not like those stupid sheep who go to parties and get laid
>i participate in highly intelligent discussion about topics like men's rights and I think feminists are the worst thing on eareth because they ruin my video games, theyre also the reason why im a virgin
To be fair SMB is actually really important to video games. SMB perfected 2d platformer movement.
>>65586697
>>65586887
Such poor arguments christ.
>>65587011
>>>/v/
so we're all in agreement that Super Mario Wrold 2: Yoshi's Island is the greatest game of all time yeah?
Also most PC games aren't fun desu
>>65587092
Going to parties to get laid usually doesn't involve either gaming or hip-hop,
so i don't know where you came up with this.
Are you just randomly shouting personal grievances or something?
>>65586920
i went to art college and you're basically thought that the difference between an artist and a craftsman is in the planning stage where you think philosophically about your work, so if that guy did that then he made art
Hip Hop is literally anti-intellectual music. I'm not even a big gamer, but SMB is arguably more important than hip hop
>>65586534
you're a fucking idiot
>>65587010
Not all pop is made to be marketed
>>65587131
Have you ever listened to African drum music?
Or any instrumental hip hop outside of /mu/core?
>>65587153
The only idiots here are the teenagers who are deluded into thinking their shitty immature entertainment is art.
>>65587092
Triggered.
>>65587092
I'm actually a southamerican halfnigger halfspic.
I don't like game soundtracks, I don't even play videogames these days.
And I don't give a fuck about /v/ or /pol/ shit.e
Not everyone that dislikes hip-hop is a fedora dadrocker, you gigantic faggot.
>>65587182
let's look at the definition of art, shall we.
"the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power."
or
"the various branches of creative activity, such as painting, music, literature, and dance."
therefore, video games are art.
>>65587158
african drum music is hip hop?
>>65587227
>let's google "define art" and use that in our discussion, since I have no art education of my own
Kid, go back to /v/.
>>65587118
With "parties", I don't mean your anime conventions where you can circlejerk with your fellow neckbeard permavirgins about how evil women are.
You're right about one thing though, no decent person plays video games.
>>65587131
lmao found another one, did /v/ and /pol/ decide to raid /mu/?
>>65587247
It's an integral link to Hip Hop yes you dumb motherfucker.
You didn't even answer my second question so I'll assume you haven't.
>>65587272
>>65587158
Different anon here. I've done both.
Now answer the question.
>>65587272
How?
>>65587261
>You're right about one thing though, no decent person plays video games.
Are you saying Michael J. Fox is not a decent person?
But you do have a point that no hip-hop artist is a decent person, given how 99% of them play video games.
>>65587249
>rejecting the definition of a word to use it the way you desire
>using kid unironically
kill yourself doesnt expose my feeling towards you as strongly as i would like it to
>>65587311
What the fuck are you talking about you moron there is no question in this chain of posts
I can tell you're 18 or sub-18 /v/tard
>>65586851
this image is cringeworthy, I hope you don't really use this seriously at all
>>65587272
well krautrock is an integral link to rock but if i say "fuck rock", i dont mean fuck krautrock
fuck you
>>65587368
not an argument
>>65587336
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha I actually got you mad because I can tell you're a kid.
You'll grow up one day.
>>65587325
Huh still dodging the question huh?
>>65587386
See this proves what a fucking moron you are. Krautrock came from Rock. African drum music LED to Hip Hop
Go back to /v/, we don't want uneducated fucks like you.
>>65587347
>there is no question in this chain of posts
See >>65587131
>Hip Hop is literally anti-intellectual music
By question, I mean address this point. You haven't.
>>65587429
>By question, I mean address this point.
To say it's anti-intellectual is to say "I haven't listened to any intellectual hip hop" which is to say "I haven't heard any instrumental hip hop, dance music, or even Rap outside of /mu/core."
If you don't care about Kid Koala, milo, Uncommon NASA, The Orb, etc. that's fine. But don't think when we call you a fucking moron that it isn't spot on.
>>65587425
>African drum music LED to Hip Hop
Hip hop is a stylistic culture, not a musical genre. Rap is the musical genre encompassed under the hip hop genre.
And rap didn't only take influence from african drum, but also from Scottish pub traditions that were passed on via slave ships:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/3998862/Rap-music-originated-in-medieval-Scottish-pubs-claims-American-professor.html
If you are going to tell off /v/ kids in the name of /mu/, at least do so without shaming /mu/ through your lack of education.
>>65586887
Thanks for the outdated aesthetics lesson but video games are not art. Sorry, that is just not the place the occupy culturally.
>>65587474
>To say it's anti-intellectual is to say "I haven't listened to any intellectual hip hop" which is to say "I haven't heard any instrumental hip hop, dance music, or even Rap outside of /mu/core."
I alreday addressed that. I have listened to both things you asked.
None of it is intellectual, and you have yet to prove otherwise without circular logic.
>If you don't care about
What I care about is not relevant.
He's objectively correct
>>65587425
yeah vthavt was ´prevtvty moronic
levts ´pbuvt ivt vthis way
rock originavted from blues
if i say "fbuck rock", i donvt mean "fbuck blbues"
fucking hell man i dont hate african drum music or anything like that i just hate the commercial, dumbed down approach to hip hop itself
>>65587540
What Kid Koala, milo, and The Orb have you listened to?
What did you think of Dr Yen Lo's release last year?
>>65587556
yeah that was pretty moronic
lets put it this way
rock originated from blues
if i say "fuck rock", i dont mean "fuck blues"
fucking hell man i dont hate african drum music or anything like that i just hate the commercial, dumbed down approach to hip hop itself
srry, keyboard is busted
>>65587556
You're also an uneducated moron.
>>65587572
>What _____________ have you listened to?
See >>65587540
Address the issue of how dance music is intellectual?
>>65587608
No, that didn't answer my question.
>>65587643
That's because your question is not relevant.
>>65587608
>Address the issue of how dance music is intellectual?
How is it not? Tell me, how old are you? Are you from /v/?
>>65587667
>How is it not?
Is parting/dancing an intellectual pursuit? Or is it inherently hedonistic?
>>65587663
It is relevant: if your only exposure is the vapid surface level then your opinion is irrelevant.
Kindly explain your thoughts on Yen Lo and milo
SMB, rap, pop and the like is art. However, most of it is bad art. Whether one appreciates bad art or not is up the observer. Art is supposed to capture the essence of good and beautiful things.
With music, its supposed to capture the essence of human emotion (this is in really simple terms, hold it loosely because its much more complicated than that).
with visual art, its supposed to capture the essence of the thing depicted in the mind.
highly marketed products of craft (artifices) are indeed art. so most video games, radio-pop and the like are bad inquiries of reality, and have a more bodily appeal (like testosterone/estrogen/adrenaline-stimulating or whatever) than a soul-fulfilling appeal.
>>65587082
this statement is untrue
>>65587685
I don't know, you should ask Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven. I hear they wrote quite a lot of dance music from explicit dance suites, divertimenti, and scherzos.
>>65587693
>It is relevant: if your only exposure is the vapid surface level then your opinion is irrelevant.
See >>65587693
>Kindly explain your thoughts on Yen Lo and milo
It's not intellectual, if that's what you mean
>>65587714
>I don't know
Not shit. Thanks for the discussion.
http://www.scaruffi.com/phi/syn175.html
Look at this anti-intellectual music!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXBmygI-N3M
>>65587739
Oh, so you're b8ing? Let me know when you'll address the fact that you're saying Bach and Mozart are not intellectual.
>>65586851
I think Mondrian has a huge merit in art. In this painting he reduces all reality to just three colors and square shapes.
It may look easy to make, but it took centuries for artists to stop being so goddamn academic and perfectionists in representing reality.
As of Halo (or whatever that game is), I think it doesn't have as much artistic value. Of course it takes a lot of effort to make a videogame, but they're not as rich as a film, as a painting or a book.
>Lower cinematography values. Film has never been about telling a story, people that say this are hacks.
>No literature or painting magic
At most, you could consider its music and mayyyybe the story as art, but it doesn't come close to being as perfect as it is other art mediums.
>>65587697
>With music, its supposed to capture the essence of human emotion
I bet you think "sad guy whining about love over an acoustic guitar" is the pinnacle of music.
More anti-intellectual dance music!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ7uQgQcO6o
>>65587751
>Let me know when you'll address the fact that you're saying Bach and Mozart are not intellectual.
Not the argument
Nice misdirection
>>65587697
also, thats not to say that highly marketed products of craft are bad simply because theyre highly marketed. sometimes theyre really fucking good. skyrim, for example, is an awesome game and arguably has some artistic merit.
>art
Spooks! All of it!
>>65586697
it's not "a mix of" those things at all though. it may contain some of those things, but it's fundamentally a completely different, interactive thing.
>>65587778
See your post here >>65587685
Followed by my post here: >>65587714
Is Bach anti-intellectual?
>>65587786
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>65587786
>skyrim, for example, is an awesome game and arguably has some artistic merit.
jesus christ spotted the teenager
Isn't a video game just a piece worked on by writers, musicians, and virtual sculptors? Don't really like video games, but anyone can see it's a collaboration between different artists.
>>65587769
>implying sadness/happiness is the only significant emotion.
i dont think that in the slightest.
like i said, its much more complicated than what i said. i do like elliott smith though, he's not the pinnacle of music
scaruffi actually really likes the work of jonathan blow.
>in august 2008 San Francisco-based game designer Jonathan Blow released "Braid", a videogame for Microsoft's Xbox. The concept was completely different. Blow focused on his own aesthetic values, on sophisticated scripting and subtle psychology. Blow conceived the videogame as an art (not "art" as in "craft" but "art" as in "Michelangelo" and "Van Gogh"). He then invested the profits into producing an even more "artistic" game, "The Witness"
haven't heard him say much about any other 'art games', though, either because he doesn't know about them, or because he thought they were shit.
>>65587572
>I don't like (genre)
>THAT'S JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T HEARD (artist I like), (artist I like), (artist I like)
End yourself
>>65586982
this would mean that like 95 percent of the albums /mu/ talks about regularly aren't art
LUSTY ITALIAN ATTITUDES
>>65587880
>I don't like genre because I've only heard popular artists
>Have you heard any unpopular artists like these?
>NO I HAVEN'T STOPPED POINTING THAT OUT
>>65587884
yeah I remember the aggressive marketing and parties around Loveless, Spiderland, Tago Mago, and Trout Mask Replica
>>65587850
the question is whether games /themselves/ can be art, not whether they can contain art in the form of their assets, which nobody is disputing.
unless you think the pinnacle of the medium is just interactive art gallerys and theaters to display other, better art, from other, better mediums.
>>65587894
>I don't like genre because I've only heard popular artists
Nice assumption
>Have you heard any unpopular artists like these?
Not an argument
>>65587697
>With music, its supposed to capture the essence of human emotion
no, no, just no.
emotion is a byproduct of experiencing music.
good/artistic music is about advancing, perfecting, and experimenting with technique and composition.
feelsfags are cancer, your stupid Weezer and Sufjan Stevens albums are not art.
The /v/tards finally left.
I really don't know why they come here, they clearly don't actually take music seriously.
>>65587808
>Is Bach anti-intellectual?
Start a new thread about Back and I'll discuss it there. I would prefer to not violate site rules and post off topic
>>65587999
It's not off-topic, we're talking about dance music (modern iteration = hip hop) and its ability to be intellectual.
Now answer the RELEVANT question. Are Bach's Orchestral Suites, Brandenburg Concerti, Partitas, etc. anti-intellectual?
Rap isn't anti-intellectual, but it is primitive.
It isn't anti-intellectual in that lyrics can be intelligent,
but it is primitive in that the music is primitive kiddie shit compared to proper music standards in regards to complexity and instrumentation,
and the vocals don't have any set standard like in some serious music genres requiring uber-standards in regards to voice, tonality, tact, timing, and using voice to convey emotion variably through different song parts.
Rap is basically the teenager's rebellious tantrum when he still doesn't know shit about anything, just before growing up and growing out of it.
Just like video games, hip hop as a culture is something you are supposed to grow out of.
>>65587981
>I only know the most essential releases of the genres I like and only listened to the most popular releases of the artists I like
>I don't know anything about music theory and can't play an instrument, because music is all about the emotion
>I don't actually listen to music, I let it run in the background while playing video games, taking drugs and shitposting on /mu/
>BUT I SURE DO APPRECIATE MUSIC GUISE
>>65588059
>It isn't anti-intellectual in that lyrics can be intelligent
"ooga booga fuck whitey" isn't intelligent.
>>65588059
So then what about Primitivist music, which is deliberately doing the same thing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFPjFjUonX8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPYWZYhWuGw
>>65588078
I know a lot more about music theory and history than any of you.
That's why I know more about the history of dance music than your lot have demonstrated.
>>65586324
Holy shit everyone here is fucking stupid. This thread really confirms everyone's lack of education on my.
Try a YouTube channel called Games as Literature for starters.
>>65586599
>>65586799
>>65587011
>>65587222
>>65587311
>>65587333
>>65587744
>>65587977
>>65587999
these digits
>all these /mu/core drones acting like they are better than gamers
lmao
this board's taste in music is absolute dogshit
the albums on the /mu/ "essential" charts are basically equivalent to the "best" video games.
the only music that is art is classical and some jazz.
there is not much difference in artistic value between a David Bowie album and a game like Mass Effect, for example. they are not "bad" but they are not very artistic and they are both for simple-minded people who can't handle advanced or abstract concepts.
get fucked
>>65588115
>yeah i can play wonderwall on my guitar and i know when my favorite nigger music album came out, im a music expert after all
>>65588142
>I'm educated because I watch youtube videos
>>65588142
>Try a YouTube channel
>>65588036
Can you tell me how they're dance music?
>>65587977
dude, i said its much more complicated than that. i agree with you. in no way, shape, or form am i denying that good artistic music is supposed to be stylistically creative and expansive. still, how is this "byproduct" irrelevant? i mean, who doesnt like beautiful music? good art should do all these things, but i can enjoy a good album without expecting "feels".
>>65588095
>the rite of spring
>half an hour of a fucking instrumental orchestra with a note spreadsheet for each instrument that's more complex than reading Napoleon's book of war jerkoff
>primitivistic
You joking there m8?
>>65588142
another pseud trying to convince everyone that trashy mainstream video games are great art.
i'm somebody who has a lot of faith in the medium, but people need to stop fooling themselves.
>>65588203
>post bullshit
>people call you a moron
>GUISE I SAID IT'S MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT
>>65588181
More broadly, the term was used in Baroque Germany for a suite of dance-pieces in French Baroque style preceded by such an ouverture. This genre was extremely popular in Germany during Bach's day, and he showed far less interest in it than was usual: Robin Stowell writes that "Telemann's 135 surviving examples [represent] only a fraction of those he is known to have written";[1]
As for the Brandenburgs and the Partitas/Suites, their movements have very specific designations as dance works, such as Bouree, Gigue, Sarabande, Courante, etc.
>>65586851
actually the second is a art since its a image not a game.
So even if video games arent art, the second one is also art.
Unless you also think paintings made with 3d computer programs also arent art, but in the case you would be full of shit
>>65588205
Do you not know about Primitivist art? It's OK, I understand that I know more than most /mu/ people (and certainly more than /v/) about music history.
>>65587110
Okami is the best game ever made you tool
If games aren't art, then Leonardo da Vinci who consolidated various artistic mediums into wholes doesn't qualify to be referred to as an artist.
Now go and tell this to any art school on this planet, and you'll get kicked out and pissed on at best, and crucified on the spot at worst.
>>65587368
JUST
>>65588253
Was it intended as dance music, or is it just that people danced to it?
There's a different by the way.
>>65588268
>Unless you also think paintings made with 3d computer programs also arent art,
Its not art because electronic music is not art.
If 3d computer software or any digital painting was art, electronic music would need to be art.
Making pixel art is just pushing buttons, the same with 3d art and electronic music
>>65586534
who cares
>>65588287
It was written as dance music and meant as dance music.
>>65588281
>consolidated various artistic mediums into wholes
Was this whole for commercial purposes or artistic?
>>65588327
All of his pieces or just the ones you cherrypicked?
>>65588281
>Now go and tell this to any art school on this planet, and you'll get kicked out and pissed on at best, and crucified on the spot at worst.
>GUISE I TOLD THOSE PEOPLE AT ART SCHOOL THAT MUH WALKING SIMULATORS ARE ART AND THEY FUCKING LAUGHED AT ME HOLY SHIT IM SO OFFENDED HOW DARE THEY IMPLY THAT MUH PRETENTIOUS TWO HOUR GAMES THAT COST TWENTY DOLLAR AREN'T AS GOOD AS ART MADE BY TRAINED PEOPLE THEY JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND ME BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT OPEN-MINDED ENOUGH AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>65588268
>actually the second is a art since its a image not a game.
HA HA HA HA HA
Yes, it's true. All still images are in fact art. Very perceptive. A true genius on the /mu/ board.
>>65588349
Where did I claim that he only wrote dance music? I'm pointing out that Bach wrote a significant amount of dance music. It's not cherrypicking to point out the Partitas for keyboard or violin, the Suites for many instruments (particularly the Cellos Suites), and the Concertos.
>>65588281
Lots of art schools teach / encourage the creation of art games in their visual arts departments.
I attended Sarah Lawrence College, and the interactive digital art teacher's office was directly next to a painting studio.
>>65588281
>Now go and tell this to any art school on this planet, and you'll get kicked out and pissed on at best, and crucified on the spot at worst.
Wow. How fedora can you get?
I'd rather listen to this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsuSGbw1zu0
than to any hip hope diarrhea.
So i sympathize with the man's words.
>>65588404
>Where did I claim that he only wrote dance music?
See >>65587808 >>65587751
>It's not cherrypicking to point out the Partitas for keyboard or violin, the Suites for many instruments (particularly the Cellos Suites), and the Concertos.
But to call him a specifically non-intellectual because he made a handful of dance pieces is incorrect.
WELL. Videogames are just a means to make money. True art comes, IF THERE'S ANY ARTISTIC MERIT TO BE FOUND ON VIDEOGAMES AT ALL, from independent artists and programmers.
Much like Arianna Grande isn't an artist, Smah Bros. isn't a piece of art. That's what I think at least!
>>65588462
Those posts don't say anything like that, nice try kid.
>But to call him a specifically non-intellectual because he made a handful of dance pieces is incorrect.
I never did that, you're doing that. Are you saying the Cello Suites are not intellectual music?
>>65587965
of course it is an argument, you are judging an entire genre by listening only a small fraction of what it has to offer, he's saying that there are more to that than you are caring to listen, so you are the ignorant one in that case. how can you say there is no intellectual hip hop? have you listened to everything available to back this assumption? And what is your definition of "intelectual music"? Is rock by any degree more "intelectual" than hip hop?
>>65588417
>le fedora argument
Is this what kids say now to defend their argument? Not him, btw.
>>65588296
>Making pixel art is just pushing buttons, the same with 3d art and electronic music
Wait, so music made with piano is not art?
>>65588484
If it's meant to be danced to, it's not intellectual.
>>65588469
It's wrong to be so black and white about it.
It gets kind of confusing when it comes to video games.
I think Fallout New Vegas is artistic, and I wouldn't say the same of 3 or 4, but it's hard to define why.
Is Majora's Mask more fundamentally "art" than Ocarina of Time because it's actually utilizing various aspects of the gameplay in order to investigate the human experience in some ways?
>>65588275
>Okami is the best game ever made you tool
You are spelling Dwarf fortress wrong
>>65588469
lots of interesting things happening in different independent scenes and i wish people would look to those instead of desperately clinging to awful mainstream games.
>>65588499
Wait so electronic music is made with a piano?
>>65588504
So you're saying Bach's Partitas and Suites are not intellectual.
>>65588521
I think he is too stupid for Dwarf Fortress.
It's the visual part that appeals to his autistic needs, not the actual "game" part.
>>65588537
So you are saying those pieces are intellectual even though it's dance music?
>>65588530
You're new here aren't you?
>Scaurffi
>Well known racist
Hmm, I wonder why he doesn't like the hippidy hop???
>>65588558
>posts a synth
>not a piano
Been here 5 years. how about you?
Art in the sense that most people talk about it, but can't really define, is generally about the presence of actual complex and multifaceted/multidimensional ideas being manifested within a given piece.
So, my feeling is that certain hip-hop is art, and within that art hip-hop, certain are more actively meritous in their multidimensionality. The same goes with video games, and the obviously the visual arts and such.
I don't consider graphic design to be art, nor do I generally consider illustrations (computer or hand-made) to be art in the same sense that something Joseph Beuys or Giorgio Morandi are art.
>>65588408
>muh walking simulators are art because Mr. (((Goldberg))) told me so
>I attended Sarah Lawrence College
I bet that Women's Studies degree got you a really good job.
>>65588485
No, saying " ur stupid listen to this itll totally change ur mind!!!!!!!" is not an argument. Maybe you should try explaining what's so good about the artists you recommend, which would prove that there ist merit to their music.
>>65588583
>U JUST DONT LIKE MUH NIGGER MUSIC CUZ UR A RAYCIS U IGNANT MOFUCKA
>>65588628
back to /b/
>>65588628
>Spams word nigger all over music board to try and get liberal reaction
/pol/fag go away
>>65588518
I agree. NV is one of those few games with artistic merit, same as MM, OoT. I would also say Bloodborne can be considered art.
And yes, it's not easy to define which games have artistic merit. Agree. However, it's very difficult to say that NV is a piece of art, you see?
With mainstream games it is very hard to say with confidence that X game is art, because it wasn't made to be art, in most cases. Again, as you say, it is not really a dichotomy. It's either YES ITS ART or NO.
>>65588526
Braid and Fez (Phil Fish is a faggot, ik) I could easily consider art.
I don't get why hip-hop fags are even attempting to defend themselves.
They are the artistic equivalent of a man shitting into a toilet.
Even this shit is more artistic than any hip-hop bile in history:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs95JhRzMeE
Glad that the faggot trying to claim Bach's dance music is anti-intellectual left.
>>65588647
>>65588691
>IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ME YOU'RE FROM (board I don't like)
>>65588695
THERE IS NO ARTISTIC MERIT TO VIDEO GAMES YOU RETARDED MOUTHBREATHER
THEY'RE ENTERTAINMENT MADE FOR MONEY
>>65588725
I'm waiting for anon to answer me here >>65588554
>>65587760
this is the most blatantly wrong post i've ever read
then again, it's my fault for thinking anybody on /mu/ has taste when it comes to anything
>>65588554
Yes, why are they not intellectual? They contain a mastery of form and harmony. To claim they aren't intellectual is to say you don't know anything about music.
>>65588554
They're made by trained composers. Niggers who talk about "muh raycism where da white womyn at" are not trained composers.
>>65588628
if my goal from attending college was to get a degree that would help me get a job, I would have just gone to a community college and studied plumbing.
I know you're trolling, but I continue to be astonished by how so many people on 4chan completely dismiss higher education as being pointless because much of what it teaches doesn't... help you learn a trade? Or get a job that helps you to "contribute to society" in some way, and in fact actively encourages behavior that you obviously consider antisocial and threatening to your notions of community and America more broadly, considering that you explicitly allude to women's education and imply some sort of zionist conspiracy...? I can't even parse apart what you're trying to say because it's so utterly wrong-headed.
i think video games can be art but you wouldn't know it from looking at the people who play them and the games that get the most publicity.
when people think of video games they think of garbage like call of duty and uncharted and angry birds (which only a delusional manchild would argue are great art), rather than independent artists like increpare (http://www.increpare.com/2012/12/slave-of-god/) who most people either don't know about, or write off as too fringe to be worth discussing seriously.
>>65588628
i didnt recommended any artist to start with, but i did asked what you define as intelectual music. you dodged that and also dodged why should one consider any genre of music (used rock as an example) more intelectual than another.
>>65588768
What Kid Koala and DJ Shadow have you listened to?
>>65588732
He's not a racist cus he doesn't like hip-hop, he's racist cus of his historically distorted political writings on slavery.
>>65588330
>Was this whole for commercial purposes or artistic?
Does it matter?
Let's take Queen for instance.
The only good music they ever made was for a movie soundtrack (Flash Gordon), which is commercial purpose.
>ITT: children arguing with children
>>65588771
So you admit that you went to college to circlejerk with your fellow strong, independent womyn and nu-males over "WHITE PPL ARE EBUL"?
>>65588772
>HAHA WHAT U THINK I'M TALKING ABOUT COD WHEN I SAY VIDEO GAMES ARE ART LOOL NO I'M TALKING ABOUT GONE HOME AND BIOSHOCK INFINITE THATS REAL ART NOT LIKE THOSE VIDEO GAMES I DON'T LIKE
>>65588732
>THERE IS NO ARTISTIC MERIT TO VIDEO GAMES YOU RETARDED MOUTHBREATHER THEY'RE ENTERTAINMENT MADE FOR MONEY
>THEY'RE ENTERTAINMENT MADE FOR MONEY
of course, because music is 100% pure art and produced purely for artistic merit and created with no intention to generate profit whatsoever
>>65588768
>They're made by trained composers.
Ah, if that's your rubric, then hip-hop is not intellectual music because they are not made by trained composers.
Care to rethink your logic?
>>65588815
>does artistic intent matter?
Also
>The only good music they ever made was for a movie soundtrack
The reason you believe this is because you don't know music theory.
>>65588874
>The reason you believe this is because you don't know music theory.
Or you could say
>The reason you know this is because you listen to music.
>>65588874
So you ignored my post where I called you out for not understanding the mastery of counterpoint in the Suites?
>>65588846
yikes
>>65588846
>HAHA WHAT U THINK I'M TALKING ABOUT 2 CHAINZ WHEN I SAY HIP HOP IS ART LOOL NO I'M TALKING ABOUT KANYE WEST AND KENDRICK LAMAR THATS REAL ART NOT LIKE THOSE RAPPERS I DON'T LIKE
See I can do it too, nigger.
>>65586845
>can't into anything but AAA games
>nothing in the while gaming medium, even things I haven't seen or experienced before is art
I see nothing wrong with this argument. I'm with you brother, the second I saw the great gatsby on the classics shelf at the book store, books stopped being even viable as an art form.
>>65588902
No I understand it, I've been a music longer than you've been alive.
Are you going to answer the question or keep changing the subject?
>>65588899
No, I stated it correctly.
>>65588775
>i didnt recommended any artist to start with
You didn't, but the retard I orginally replied to >>65587572 did.
> but i did asked what you define as intelectual music
Not relevant. Just like the other moron, you're not addressing the original statement ("Hip Hop is literally anti-intellectual music.", >>65587131).
> why should one consider any genre of music (used rock as an example) more intelectual than another.
>ROCK AND NIGGER BABBLING ARE THE ONLY GENRES OF MUSIC IN EXISTENCE
>>65588799
Dodging the orginal statement, aren't we?
>>65588806
>RAYCIS RAYCIS RAYCIS RAYCIS RAYCIS RAYCIS RAYCIS RAYCIS RAYCIS RAYCIS
Go get shot, nigger.
>>65588998
>No, I stated it correctly.
Nah you didn't. You stated that wearing a fedora is an indicator of good music from experience,
while i stated that the experience of listening to music is an indicator of knowing good music.
Quite a disparity.
>>65588998
*I've been a musician
>>65588998
>No I understand it, I've been a music longer than you've been alive.
Clearly not, since you think they're anti-intellectual.
>>65589034
>Dodging the orginal statement, aren't we?
How are DJ Shadow and Kid Koala not skilled composers on the turntable?
>>65588732
>tfw you actually believe this
lol. How does it feel to critique a game you didn't even know existed?
>>65589053
You mean YOU think so. You brought it up, remember?
>>65589050
>fedora
Stopped reading right there. Let me know when you have a real argument.
Did Scaruffi actually say this anywhere? I wasn't able to find any proof.
>>65589089
>You mean YOU think so.
No, you did.
See your own post: >>65588554
Reminder that it's not art if a single woman is involved
>>65589113
You still haven't explained why it's intellectual.
>>65589117
what if a married woman was involved?
How is hio-hop not anti-intellectual?
It's a culture of dressing like a retard who would get thrown out of a job interview,
defacing the walls of buildings and infrastructure because you are a retard who can't afford a paper and a pen,
and listening to a bunch of retards who couldn't afford to take singing classes or master an instrument settle for punching a drum and rhyming retarded lyrics formed from an uneducated mind that didn't grow up and doesn't know shit about anything yet.
How is this not anti-intellectual?
>>65589124
thanks.
>>65589146
I already explained to you the Suites demonstrate Bach's mastery of counterpoint in their perfected voice leading.
So you ARE saying they aren't intellectual?
A lot of differences.
Both Hip-hop as a music genre the... Mario Bros soundtrack lol, are art.
But theres the Low Art and the High Art.
A few hip-hop works coukd be considered Hight Art, a few videogames soundtracks could benconsidered High Art.
Is not the case of Mario Bros OST, except of you're a nerdy fanboy. Other than that you're taking your regular edgy controvertial words to a new level.
>>65589089
>Stopped reading right there. Let me know when you have a real argument.
I think if we made a poll here on whether music should be felt by hearing, or theorized with pseudo-intellectual words and vocabulary,
you'll soon find out that theorizing music is the definition of fedoraism.
You are the one who is yet to make an argument that doesn't sound like it came out of the mouth of a pseudo-intellectual.
>>65589147
>woman
NOT art
>>65588874
>Ah, if that's your rubric, then hip-hop is not intellectual music because they are not made by trained composers.
Exactly.
>>65588927
I WAS MAKING FUN OF YOU YOU DOUBLE NIGGER
CAWADOOTY, BIOSHOCK AND GONE HOME ARE NOT ART, THEY'RE ALL ENTERTAINMENT, IT'S JUST THAT THE TARGET AUDIENCE OF THE LATTER TWO ARE PRETENTIOUS RETARDS LIKE YOU
>>65589081
A skilled composer wouldn't create nigger music.
>>65589086
I know of all the games you mentioned in your post (they all very well-known), none of them are art.
>>65589117
True. Only nu-males and feminazis would disagree with this.
>>65589231
>A few hip-hop works coukd be considered Hight Art
High art as in high shitting?
Literally 3 threads on front page of /mu/ that have devolved into race politics and racism.
This board has actually become /pol/ infiltrated cancer.
>>65589256
>A skilled composer wouldn't create nigger music.
So Steve Reich, Lou Harrison, George Gershwin, and Dvorak aren't skilled composers?
>>65589273
welcome to 4chan
>>65589187
>I already explained to you the Suites demonstrate Bach's mastery of counterpoint in their perfected voice leading.
How so?
>So you ARE saying they aren't intellectual?
Dance music is not intellectual. If you think Bachs pieces are dance music, then it's YOU who think he has made non-intellectual music.
>>65589235
lol
>>65588275
>Implying that 1994 Doom isn't the best game of all time hands down
Faggot
summerfags back to /b/
>>65589273
Even the Chinese (praise our future overlords) recognize how useless blacks are as a race, so why should it be surprising that most of the world takes a shit on niggers and their culture of retardation?
Rapping is literally just nigger babble over a simple beat, nothing more. All you degenerate hip-hoppers should know that you deserve nothing in this world but shame of your inferior sense of art.
There is not one hip-hop album that can even match up to the shittiest of music. There is not one hip-hop album that is deserving of it being called "influential" or a "masterpiece". No one can prove my intellectual reasoning wrong, because it is pure fact.
>>65589328
>a different opinion than mine?\
>must be a summerfag!
Stop
>>65589034
kid, your argument goes that hip hop is anti-intelectual music. youre probably underage and that might explain your silly ignorance but there is something called burden of proof. you are making a fool of yourself by thinking that it is me who needs to address the statment "hip hop is literally anti-intellectual music". you made that claim, you need to back it up. the definition of what is intelectual and what is not is the core of the argument, cause from there derives why should one consider an entire genre 'anti-intelectual'.
>>65589268
You're saying you don't like Hip-Hop because retro game OSTs exist?
like you can't coexist with both?
Most of these soundtrack is just bleeps.
:jordanlaff:
>>65589231
>if I like it, it's high art
>if I don't like it, it's low art
That's not how it works, retard. High art is made by trained artists. Art music made by trained composers is high art.
>>65589287
Art music is not nigger music. Trained composers making music influenced by black folk music is not the same as a nigger talking over a 4/4 drum beat.
>>65589309
>If you think Bachs pieces are dance music
Explain how the Suites are not dance music, despite being written in dance forms with dance styles.
>>65589231
>low art and high art
>opinions ~ what is defined as art
had to be a autistripfag
>>65589365
Which is it? Is it:
>A skilled composer wouldn't create nigger music.
Or
>Art music is not nigger music. Trained composers making music influenced by black folk music is not the same as a nigger talking over a 4/4 drum beat.
>>65589380
>Explain how the Suites are not dance music
I never stated it was or was not. It's not my prerogative.
Answer my questions.
>>65589342
o shi good point, tell me about ur miles davis vinyls btw hipster shit?
>>65589424
>I never stated it was or was not.
Then state what you think: do you think they are dance music?
Journey game and OST is pretty good but the Chief Keef single is better than any game released in the last 20 years, if we're being less nerd.
I hate West now, but Turbo Grafix 16, is coming soon. Its all calculated.
;)
>>65589448
idk I never thought about it.
Now answer my questions please
>>65589406
Black folk music is traditional music from black countries. Nigger music is anti-intellectual music made by niggers.
There's a difference between music not being intellectual and music being anti-intellectual. Hip-Hop is anti-intellectual because it's an insult to anyone's intelligence.
>>65589471
I mean Chief Keef's "I Don't Like" single.
>>65586324
>mfw people still take a dying old man's opinion seriously even when his favourite album is Trout Mask Replica
>>65589365
>High art is made by trained artists. Art music made by trained composers is high art.
this argument is as bad as the one you mocked. art is art, what people consider high or low are opinions
> a nigger talking over a 4/4 drum beat
if you think this is an accurate definition of hip hop, the discussion ends here, because you obviously shown a very ignorant bias for an entire genre and is apparently not mentally capable to get out of your childish mind bubble and get over simple prejudices
>>65589543
>dying old man
Doesn't he like like mountain hike 50 miles per day?
He looks more /fit/ than me and he's twice my age
>>65589471
honestly have far more respect for chief keef as an artist than i do thatgamecompany
>>65589491
>idk I never thought about it.
Give me your thoughts.
>>65589571
besides, tmr is an amazing album
Reminder that Scaruffi thinks The Wall is a better album than Animals and his opinions are trash
>>65589588
Not until you answer my questions. Misdirection won't work for you.
>>65589611
Both are fucking awful so who cares?
>>65589594
Eh
>>65589612
You can't absolve yourself of your own claim.
Do you think Bach's Suites are dance music?
>>65589653
>You can't absolve yourself of your own claim.
Show me where I did.
>>65587010
Except for pop ART, obviously (and art pop...). Also, the it's more of a range than a line - pop music is commercial, but if there is any real significance to it, something besides being catchy or fun, if people consume it as art - for me it passes as art.
>>65587884
See what I wrote above. Also, I agree with this guy: >>65587913, the fact an album is being sold doesn't make it a commercial product and nothing more.
>>65589670
Sure: >>65589491
>>65589680
I look for the phrase "Back's Suites are dance music" in that post and I didn't see it.
Try again?
>>65589706
>I look for the phrase "Back's Suites are dance music" in that post and I didn't see it.
Exactly, you're avoiding answering that question yourself. Are they dance music?
>>65589748
Why are you avoiding answering my questions? It's weird that you ignore everything I ask (to help you prove hip-hop is intellectual) and just ask me random questions about Bach.
>Are they dance music?
Didn't you say it was? I'm going by what you say!
>>65589794
>Didn't you say it was? I'm going by what you say!
But what do you think?
Do you think they are dance music?
>>65589811
>But what do you think?
I don't have an opinion on that subject.
Can you explain the counterpoint mastery? Maybe chart it out and show us?
>>65589834
>I don't have an opinion on that subject.
But you have an opinion on dance music: that it is anti-intellectual. So why do you not have an opinion on that subject?
>>65589877
I don't want to post off-topic.
>>65589428
>miles davis
I googled him and i thought i was looking at one of those african warlords who fuck babies and eat the hearts of their enemies to absorb their spirit.
Turns out he is also a musician.
>>65589645
>contrarian /mu/ will never leave
>>65589912
>not knowing who Miles Davis is
>>>/reddit/
>>65589902
Have a good day kid, please learn to think before you speak.
>>65589940
hip-hopfags on suicide watch
>>65589929
I make it a principle not to know any niggers on this planet besides Hendrix and Pedo Jackson.
It's bad for one's health to know any others.
>>65589962
Are you going to answer the question, or do you want to keep dodging the question?
Have a good day.
>>65590007
Are you going to answer the question, or do you want to keep dodging the question?
no idea why people are so hard on video games at a time when you can go to an art gallery and see somebody's installation which is just some taco shells hung from the ceiling.
>>65590030
You're a toddler.
