the weird frontier between pop and avantgarde is he the savior of music?
>>64573074
just curious, what is your definition of avant-garde?
He nauseates me
avant-garde is a shit word to use now.
it has too much of the whiff of the 20th Century and how it conceived of that idea.
there is still a cutting edge, but it works in such different ways now and different modes. 'avant' is as irrelevant as 'punk' at this point
Making pop music with avant-garde aesthetic flourishes is hardly new, in many ways its the oldest trick in the book
>>64573127
I mean, like take Young Thug or Future. super fresh and next level. would you describe the way they approach it as 'avant' though?
maybe in effect if you mean super innovative, but again, avant has too many assumptions time to a time that is gone. it's like the word 'modern'... modern isn't coming back. we're not even post-modern anymore.
>>64573134
'avant-garde aesthetic flourishes' makes it sound like they're putting in conventional signifiers of 'the avant-garde', which they aren't. they make trap and it is super weird for some reason. it's not, like, rap with some self-conscious appropriation of 20th Century modern avant elements put in for respectability or something
>>64573144
>avant has too many assumptions time to a time that is gone.
meant to say 'avant has too many assumptions about how it's supposed to be made, and is attached to an era that's gone/over'
not sure how that got so mangled
Le1f is no more "avant garde" than his PC Music contemporaries. He's just part of an emerging scene.
>>64573301
nothing is avant-garde anymore, in the sense that it's impossible to be in that mode anymore and actually pull it off authentically because modernism is dead.
>>64573323
I mean you can't revive modernism, you can't rewind history or reactivate modernism by dressing up in the right clothes or taking on the right philosophy and goals. history killed it. reality killed it.
it would be like if some little blogger twerp or something who spent all his early 20s in college focused on old ideas because 'oooh Marxism was so cool' and decided he wanted to bring back futurity in a modernist sense, of course always measured against some metric of one's progress in relationship to capitalism and somehow then coughing up some next-level aesthetics that are supposed to be possible because of the REVOLUTIONARY SPACE BLOWN OPEN by all the new political possibilities, whoa
and meanwhile Future etc are making next level shit and they're completely apolitical and don't give a shit about modernism or being 'avant'
>>64573323
avant-garde literally means vanguard
it may or not refer to those specific movements from the 20th century
it may also refer to art that is pushing the envelope in some way
stop being pedantic about it
>>64573074
Tell me about Thugger. Why does he talk about rabbits?
>>64573323
I was sort of implying that with the quotes. I wouldnt use the term avant garde myself, but I agree that there's an inexplicable and uniquely digressive quality to music like this that hasn't been heard up to this point in history.
>>64573378
I know this but it's too tied to either modernist or post-war avant movements and usually gets used with too much mental baggage bringing in notions from one of those eras
>>64573301
>Le1f
lol he's the personification of the ">listens to ___ once" meme
pc music being the target of his plagiarism, of course
>>64573419
yeah Le1f is kinda lame
but it's just trap?
I like his voice but there's nothing avantgarde about his music
>>64573074
who are you that posts this?
it must be a computer,
it's like there's nobody here
>>64573562
crazy new things have been happening in music for a while.
the thing is some older guys fed on modernist ideas don't seem to get how things are mutating if it isn't happening in a certain kind of avant modernist use of abstracted form that makes them think of 'the future' the way techno or 80s music or whatever used to do
>>64573144
can we not group them together
future is fucking trash
>>64573074
There is literally nothing avant garde about Thug
>tfw there are brilliant artists working incredibly hard to push forward human expression through organized sound and all the pretentious faggots instead cum over a rapper because he raps badly
>the alternative is avant teens who lack any taste and cum over the shittiest japanese treated sound fuckery based on how cool the description is and how cool the cred it
ugh kill me
>>64573998
yes right it's not legitimate unless it has boring dry academic or political-type guys mulling over how to 'organize sound' in the proper self-consciously 'avant' mode
"to the FUTURE!"
>>64574085
nice strawman
here's an accurate statement though
>the vast majority of music made by unskilled victors of the pop music world through sheer chance alone produce meaningless garbage. Great music, like great art and literature, requires years and years of effort in devotion to a craft. Unfortunately, in achieving greatness, most great artists succeed in alienating the people who refuse to put forth the effort to understand what makes great music great, and that explains your juvenile hostility
>>64573998
>there are brilliant artists working incredibly hard to push forward human expression through organized sound
can you recc a semi avant teen some artists?
Yes.
Also, juke/footwork + trap rap and/or rnb and/or other dance music will be the savior of the modern day mainstream
>>64573998
>>tfw there are brilliant artists working incredibly hard to push forward human expression through organized sound and all the pretentious faggots instead cum over a rapper because he raps badly
You know the funny thing about words that anon throw out on this board and others to indict posters is that they're very often projecting and hypocritically snaring themselves in the process over those very words.
Your word is "pretentious".
Not every artist needs to be endeavoring to "push forward human expression" - you understand that you are talking about popular music here, right?
It's okay like both high and low art at the same time. You seem to be the type who tries to play at this facade of the "intellectual" and you naively think this necessitates a looking down on those who would ever dare to enjoy something just for the fun of it, and from my own personal experience from run ins of this type on this board they are usually pretentious middlebrow kids in denial.
You see this attitude in older music collectors who are militant elitists with blues artists; lauding them as being brilliant whilst decrying modern artists like Young Thug as intellectually bankrupt trash. But there are many parallels between trap artists and old blues artists. There all explore the same kinds of pathos: Gettin money, gettin loaded, gettin bitches, and gettin even. They are a different breed and generation of the same thing. Popular music has always been about this.
>>64573698
this senpai, why do people tend to bring up future and young thug together? future is the biggest hack in the game, only solid on features, and he can't flow by himself, listen to his verse on Drinks On Us, it's fucking trash
