Does it annoy anyone else when a song is written in a normal key like C, E, F, or G Major? Pic related is one of my favorite albums because I'm a pleb but most of the songs are in normie keys like the ones I mentioned. Luckily my cassette plays all of the songs a half step up in pitch so that they're in sharp or flat keys and I like it better that way
>>64403735
Jesus christ I hope this post is a joke
>>64403735
This is legitimately autistic, and not just 4chan "I'm socially retarded" autism.
lol what the fuck.
the key itself shouldn't really matter, it's how you work within it, and the Beatles were pretty damn good at that.
>>64403735
>i like my music better when its shitty
welcome to /mu/
If you have perfect pitch, I could see it being annoying. Otherwise there's no way C vs C-sharp makes that big a difference.
Oh that's cool Op. I don't mean it as an insult or a joke like people do now, but you have autism.
>>64404083
Yeah I do have perfect pitch and thank you for not being completely rude like everyone else on here. Playing in a different key is like using a completely different color palette so I definitely think that it matters.
>>64403947
I'm not saying I hate the Beatles because of the keys they play in ya ding. It's still one of my favs
>>64404303
Changing the key of an album alters the artistic message of the album.
In other words, you can't say that the White Album is your favorite album if you're listening to a musically altered version of it, which is part of the reason everyone is giving you shit.
Not trying to be rude, just my two cents.
>>64404303
Anon, this is not normal. Even experienced musicians with an ear perfectly capable of identifying notes by ear do not have this strange complex. There is literally no reason why sharp or flat keys would sound better than just C, E, D, A etc. That makes no fucking sense, they're all mixed in with eachother anyway, it's not like you're getting a new range of sound you don't normally here.
I wasn't trying to be rude, that is legitimately very unusual and I wouldn't be surprised if you place on the spectrum or have a very bizarre form of OCD.
>>64404472
Hear*
>>64404400
Yeah I agree with you on that. What I'm listening to isn't THE white album as intended
>>64403735
>Does it annoy anyone else when a song is written in a normal key like C, E, F, or G Major?
How do you know when this happens?
This doesn't really bother me. Why would it? Good on you for noticing. Get over it.
>>64404472
Lol I didn't ride the short bus growing up but I won't deny the possibility. How does hearing a lot of music that's in the same exact key not bother anyone else? Does nobody else consider the key as an important factor when writing a song?
>>64404544
It's not that difficult to figure out what key a song is in desu
>>64404648
>Does nobody else consider the key as an important factor when writing a song?
As opposed to the lyrics, melody, arrangement, production, instrumentation?
The key is a minor detail used for helping vocalists singing range.
>>64404303
I certainly wasn't trying to be rude - strange tendencies like preferring songs when played in a certain key is actually a sign of autism or OCD.
>>64404702
Not answering my question.
Try again.
>>64404648
Key is important for your vocalist's range and some people prefer to play in certain keys because the way the notes on their instrument are laid out. It's never just because sharps or flats sound better than regular notes.
It's pretty weird dude.
And if you're curious, http://psychcentral.com/quizzes/autism.htm
>>64404728
Not him but by knowing music by ear you entitled fuck.
>>64404706
I don't think it's a minor detail at all. Why do you think Hendrix always played in E flat as opposed to E?
>>64404772
>how do you know?
>because I know!!
Try again.
>>64404728
Rephrase it because I have no idea what you're asking
>>64404794
>Why do you think Hendrix always played in E flat as opposed to E?
[citation needed]
Is this bait?
>>64404799
Let me try and explain it to you.
If you actually knew anything about music you would be able to know what a note is just by hearing it. Instead you're a bitchy little faggot pretending you know anything about music on a Taiwanese nightstand design forum
>>64404794
For his voice you clown. Also he switched it up. He would have his guitar in standard or a half step down depending on the song. Once again, because he liked singing in that key.
>>64404830
This is a known fact desu
>>64404885
He switched it up in studio recordings, he may have always played in a half step down live, but that's because it's easier to sing a half step down. I can't fucking believe how little anyone here knows about music, is this a fucking joke?
>>64404877
>If you actually knew anything about music
Well I've been a musician for as long as you've been alive. How about you?
>you would be able to know what a note is just by hearing it
What difference would a C or a C# make then? The root note is arbitrary, only the intervals matter
>>64404885
Then it'll be easy for you to post a source!
>>64404954
>has been a musician for over 24 years
>doesn't know how to identify notes by ear
You're a liar or you should just give up music, because you're just not good enough.
>>64404979
>implying every musician has perfect pitch
I have relative pitch. Again, it's about intervals.
Your musical ignorance is showing.
>>64404794
Probably because he just liked to compose in that key (or as others said that might just be due to him tuning down his guitar).
Different keys matter when you're writing a song, but it should literally not make any difference when listening. Why do you think Roman numeral notation is the same for all keys? It's because it's all the same shit really.
>>64405040
>>64404979
I don't even know what y'all are arguing about because I think you both disagree with OP.
>>64404913
Still proves my point that playing a song in a different key is a valid artistic choice
>>64405068
I do, I think it's b8
>>64403735
So Piggies for you is in A since it's otherwise in A flat then which is normie scum for you haha get fucked
The beatles loved the key of A mother fucker. And they could make sweet sweet love to that key, so many classics are in the key of A
>>64405082
Because flattening a key makes it easier to sing, are you seriously still not getting this dude? It doesn't have to do with how those keys sound. What did you score on that test?
>>64403735
thats legitimate autism, OP
seek help
>>64405040
All I'm telling you is that the musicians I know have perfect pitch or at least close to it, and none of them have played longer than 10 years. For you to play for two decades and not have perfect pitch sounds like you probably suck.
>>64405163
Very very few people have perfect pitch. it's generally not something you can just learn.
>>64405163
>All I'm telling you is that the musicians I know
Not interested in hearing about your high school band, sorry.
>For you to play for two decades and not have perfect pitch sounds like you probably suck.
I play in four bands, half of which they begged me to join.
How about you?
>>64405265
I've been in 4 bands at this point as well and I've done a lot of solo work. I already told you I'm 24 dumbass.
>>64405251
Are you telling me you can't hear a note and just tell if it's a C, D or E and then work out steps from that note?
Okay here's an analogy to show how stupid this is.
No, playing in a different key is not like using an entirely new palette. The notes are all the same, just arranged differently when going to pull from them. This would be like using all the same colors, but just having them in a different order on the palette the painter was holding and thinking that it would have any significant effect on the quality of the final product. It's merely a tool for the creator based on their preference.
It's the relative distance between the notes and chords that matter, not the key itself.
So yeah OP, it's a pretty autistic way to think.
>>64403735
Whether a song is in C major or Ab major makes no difference to the song itself. IT WILL SOUND THE SAME just start and end on a different note
A song using a different scale ie in C minor, or C dorian or C locrian etc will sound different to a song in c major
>>64405123
Can you name a few Beatles songs in the key of A? I'm genuinely curious and I like learning about these things.
>>64405379
>Are you telling me you can't hear a note and just tell if it's a C, D or E
No, because I'm not the 1 out of 10,000 people who has absolute pitch. Once I know what the note is sure I can work it out from there, but that's just relative pitch, which is what most people have.
>normie keys
what did he mean by this?
>>64404794
Because he found it easier to improvise in that key (e minor pentatonic tuned down). You learn certain shapes that you apply to the fretboard
Not because it sounded different. Different scales sound different, different chord voicings and progressions sound different, not different major keys. How fucking retarded are all of you
>>64403735
yes. after learning how to make music, anything in the major keys is boring as fuck to me and i hate it. a ton of the big EDM songs drops are just spamming those keys, and i fucking hate it.
>>64405379
>I've been in 4 bands at this point as well and I've done a lot of solo work. I already told you I'm 24 dumbass
Wow, not that much at all. Based on your previous comments (not knowing what intervals are), I can understand why no one would want to be in a band with you
>>64404830
Hey joe is in e minor pentatonic don't listen to these idiots
>>64405429
>>64405542
thats what i meant, scales. shit fucking annoys me when i hear a basic as fuck song with millions of views.
>>64404979
A lot of musicians don't have perfect pitch. It's quite rare, and something you usually have to train for
Again, the root note doesn't matter. Only the intervals between the notes matter UNLESS YOU HaVe PERFeCT PItCH AND ARE A FUCkInG AUTIST
>>64405596
1 in 10,000? I mean I can't do this 100% of the time but I can pretty reliably say that a note is an E an A a D etc. I mean I've tuned my guitar or played it every day for 10 years, of course I'm going to be able to recognize an E or a D when I hear it. I really didn't know this was rare.
>>64405552
I know, and Fire is in Am.
>>64405708
>I mean I can't do this 100% of the time
Then you don't have perfect pitch.
That's just memory. Perfect pitch would be me asking you to sing an F sharp and being able to it immediately on the spot without anything else to go off of.
>>64405422
That's a terrible analogy. I'd say changing key is more akin to changing the shades of the colors you're working with.
>>64405127
Why would he have bothered to switch it in studio if it's easier to play in one key?
It's not uncommon for jazz musicians to play in different keys when covering standards either
>>64403735
I play multiple instruments and am pretty familiar with music theory and I have legitimately no idea what you're talking about
>>64404794
Guitars sound slightly sour when you tune down, that's completely different than "the key of C triggers me"
>>64405888
No, that is objectively incorrect. Obviously it's not a perfect analogy since aural and visual mediums are just by nature different, but modern musical notation is not arranged in a way where the different keys would affect the "shade" of a piece. Any song can be played in any key.
>>64403735
>I don't like it because it's popular!
>>64405983
i think he just means basic major chords.
>>64406030
I don't agree though. Let's say for example you play a piece that's in A flat in D. Wouldn't you say this affects the feel of the piece?
>>64405888
As do I. It might be that those keys are commonly used because it's easy to play in for most instruments. Hearing a song written in an uncommon key can be kinda cool and sounds different. I don't know how to segway into this but there have been instances of artists that adjust songs in studio so that they're inbetween keys (ex between C and C#)
>>64406171
>Wouldn't you say this affects the feel of the piece?
Only because you are already familiar with the piece in D. If you had always heard the piece in Ab, you wouldn't know any better
>>64406208
You mean like they're in a micro-tonal key? Can you post an example?
>>64406311
I've heard covers of songs I already know in different keys that I prefer. I've also heard covers where I prefer the original key
>all the keys sound the same!
OP is autistic, but you guys are pretty damn stupid. Every key (not scale) has a different quality to it. If you transpose a song from C to C# it definitely isn't the same song. Different notes
>>64406171
>>64406208
From a compositionaly objective view, no the key should not affect the "feel" of the piece. As the second guy said, sure there might be a difference due to the particular instruments being used and their tuning, but that's an entirely different thing all together. From a purely theory standpoint different keys shouldn't make a difference.
>>64406311
That's a very strange argument to make anon.The fact remains that the same piece played in a different key will have a different feel. I think the shade analogy works well in this regard. Like a song played in a lower key will have a slightly darker shade.
>>64406406
https://youtu.be/XftabV9S2z0
I think there's some led Zeppelin song that did it too but I'm not completely sure
>>64406171
OP
The way I wrote my post was pretty autistic. This is my true question
>>64406442
>The fact remains that the same piece played in a different key will have a different feel
What sort of feel? explain it.
>>64406390
You prefer what you are familiar with.
The key is just a focal point to the composition of a song. It doesn't matter if the key is in C major or F minor if the artist doesn't use a traditional form (like a sonata form, or 12-bar blues) which requires a perfect cadence at the end. Plus there's chromatic notes that artists throw in all the time.
An artist can easily modulate whenever they want in many different ways also. It's only really noticeable if the artist modulates from a major key to a minor key, or especially from a major mode to a minor mode.
"Key preference" is a meme when it comes to listening desu. However, preference of key is common when it comes to physically playing an instrument (like E maj/min on guitar).
>>64406563
>prefer what I'm familiar with
Did you even read what I wrote
>>64406587
this you autismal fux
>>64403735
I mean, when people do some common chord and just arp it endlessly or jack off to scales it can be annoying, but not really in general melody.
>>64406587
There have been songs written that change key midway through. You can't tell me that this does not affect the feel even if it is only in some relative way
>>64406500
Yeah of course changing around keys in the middle of a song is going to change the way it sounds, but that's entirely different from what we're discussing. It's not that the key itself provides any objectives different "feel". This just gets back to the original counter to OPs point that it's the distance between the notes that matters, not the key itself. If anything this just furthers the point that the whole key system is a relatively arbitrary way to organize music and is just used to ease the writing and performing of it.
>>64406406
>>64406563
Here, I whipped up an example. the riff is played in Ab than D. I think the difference is obvious.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1v8Y2YqgQWX
>>64406748
Often they will do it to lift. To give more force to a previous melody based on the direction to a higher pitch.
But that's relative to the melody before it.
I would say that I kinda agree that it could theoretically make a difference because of the way the keyboard is only kinda sorta logarithmic and not purely so and our hearing isn't either. But I doubt it really does.
>>64406748
Yeah, you got it. It affects it in a relative way, not an objective one.
There is no objective difference between A and A#. It's how they're used together which matters. This is why OPs argument is autistic.
>>64406844
This is a pretty pedantic argument man. Yeah the interval remains the same, so the song is the same in terms of how it's composed. But there's an obviously discernible difference between the same song played in different keys.
give me a song OP that you like in the wrong key
I am going to edit it so it plays int he wrong key so we can compare the different ones.
>>64407038
Also make it a popular one because I don't have perfect pitch so yeah tell me the key if you can.
>>64406796
From a compositional stand point, which is what this thread is about, no there is no difference. Sweet Child of Mine is still Sweet Child of Mine regardless of what key it's played in. Any other differences are completely subjective and simply due to the instruments and how it is being performed.
>>64406890
It's not pedantic since this entire thread is based on the idea that certain keys are objectively more interesting than the other "normal" ones, which is incorrect and what I was originally responding to. Yeah there's a discernible difference, but that doesn't even necessarily affect the "feel" and certainly not in any objective way.
>>64407038
Hello Goodbye in C major because C major is one of the most commonly used key signatures if not THE most common. Switch it to B or C# major because there aren't as many songs out there played in those keys and any interval more than a half step will sound fucking awful edited. Keep in mind that it's not your preference that I care about, just the fact that there IS a difference
>>64406610
Fine then give examples.
>>64406796
It's just the same riff in a different key.
>>64405918
Because in the studio you play it a few times and can take breaks. Its way easier on your voice and fingers if you play a half step down while performing for a few hours a few times a week
>>64407086
>Yeah there's a discernible difference, but that doesn't even necessarily affect the "feel" and certainly not in any objective way.
Are you being serious? I think you're too caught up in the specifics to realize that there is literally an objective difference between how two pieces sound when they are in different keys. The arrangement may be exactly the same but they certainly don't sound the same and hence don't "feel" the same. It's also strange that you're trying to "objectively" define something as abstract as feel.
>>64407256
It is unequivocally the most common bro, don't they teach that in like kindergarten?
>>64407293
>It's just the same riff in a different key.
Are you honestly saying that it would be strange to prefer one to the other? That theirs absolutely NO difference in how they sound?
>>64407368
>It's also strange that you're trying to "objectively" define something as abstract as feel.
If "feel" is so abstract, why start a thread about it?
>>64403735
No, it is stupid for you to dislike one key because many people use it.
What is annoying is when entire albums are all in the same 3 keys :/ That's why bands like Fleet Foxes are good, because they are actually musicians and know to write an album that uses various keys and not fatigue the listener.
>>64407396
Yeah I know. I just didn't want some faggot to tell me to give evidence
>>64407425
Because experience can be shared and discussed. It is one of the functions a music forum serves after all.
>>64407464
Then why are you so surprised we disagree with you?
>>64407448
I never said that I dislike all songs in C major. I have written songs in C major. A song in a key other than C major can be inherently slightly more interesting to me because so many other songs are in that key.
>>64407368
I'm not trying to objectively define something as abstract as a "feel". That's my entire point. A songs key, as in the key itself, as in A# or Bb has no objectively discernible effect on a songs feel. It's all just the relative positioning of the notes that matters. Therefore saying that certain keys are better than others is stupid.
Y'all are the ones getting caught up in specifics and missing the point of what I'm saying.
Here you go
Hello Goodbye in C#Maj and B
>>64407480
I'm surprised that you are being so pedantic about the whole thing. Even you have admitted that there's a discernible difference between key changes but yet you somehow maintain that they are objectively the same.
>>64407550
forgot links
Hello Goodbye in C#Maj and B
http://www6.zippyshare.com/v/BPl1Vtgp/file.html
http://www6.zippyshare.com/v/oBiHLkhm/file.html
You see, this is a good discussion. I have faith in /mu/ again
>>64407546
>A songs key, as in the key itself, as in A# or Bb has no objectively discernible effect on a songs feel
And I think that's a ridiculous statement to make when they obviously sound different.
>>64407565
>I'm surprised that you are being so pedantic about the whole thing.
What do you expect when you start a thread with "lol Normie keys like A, B and C"? You sound like an uneducated moron.
>Even you have admitted that there's a discernible difference between key changes
There's a difference in pitch of the root note. But it's not an important one.
>but yet you somehow maintain that they are objectively the same.
They are the same composition. That's why musicologists transpose songs into the same key in legal cases of plagorism. Because key is arbitrary.
>>64407521
I'm just saying that's nonsense... keys are only relevant in context, like across movements, modulation, or the different pieces on a record.
If out of the pure blue silence you heard a song in D or a song in B it would not be the key that made you interested or not, it would be the melody, harmony, rhythm.
It's maybe a little more striking to hear an odd key used, but to say songs are more dull for using "normie keys" is the epitome of hipster douchebaggedness.
>>64407638
How so? Describe it.
So listening to the different versions, I do think there could be a difference in the vocals because they sound obviously chipmunked and artificial on the C#Maj one.
The B sounds much more like a normal voice.
But I don't think its much different other than that.
>>64407654
Yeah, I agree with almost everything you just wrote. If it didn't matter at all though, why don't artists write all of their songs in the same key?
>>64407724
People often write around their limitations. IIRC Tonight, Tonight by Smashing Pumpkins was written in something crazy like G but with Vocals in C. But billy couldn't hit the notes so he just sung in G instead.
>>64407763
Does 4chan delete the minor key note thingy?
*Written in G minor sung in G
>>64407763
No the whole song was in another key
>>64407644
>They are the same composition.
Yes, I agree with you here. That being said I we've gone from "There's no objective difference" to "It's not an important one". I think the pitch of the root note significantly affects the feel of the song. You can play a piece in different keys to anybody in the world and they will tell you there's a difference. As such, I don't think its ludicrous to think that somebody might prefer one key over the other. Not OP btw.
>>64407674
Take the vocaroo example. It's the same riff played in different keys. Yes, I realize the difference is due to the change in the pitch of the notes but to say that it doesn't affect the sound of the riff at all is silly
>>64407724
Certain keys do evoke a certain 'color' to the sound, and in some cases a certain emotion, so key is an important part to the writing.
Ultimately I guess I was saying going around calling 1/3rd of all keys lame makes you sound like someone who just learned about music basics trying to sound like they are some kind of jaded vet musician. Knee-jerk association of 'common' to 'bad' is something a child does. Or at least someone who doesn't want to think very hard.
>>64407789
Might have missed the correction, or I just may be wrong, but either way, he changed it around his vocal limitations.
>>64407638
See >>64407654
It's the relative position that matters and he does a pretty good job of explaining it. That's been my point from the beginning.
>>64407794
>Take the vocaroo example
No, as in describe the difference, the feel of the two keys.
>>64407794
>"There's no objective difference"
To the composition, there isn't.
>"It's not an important one"
When compared to other factors, it isn't.
>I think the pitch of the root note significantly affects the feel of the song. You can play a piece in different keys to anybody in the world and they will tell you there's a difference. As such, I don't think its ludicrous to think that somebody might prefer one key over the other. Not OP btw.
I don't care.
>>64407830
I understand what you mean friend. My only point has been that a piece will sound at least marginally different when played in another key. To deny this based on the fact that arrangement of relative notes is the same is kind of pretentious.
>>64407883
>I don't care.
Then fuck off m8
>>64407937
>Then fuck off m8
Ooops you seem to be having trouble describing the "feels" of the two keys. Try again?
>>64407966
If you don't care you shouldn't be involved in this argument. You seem to have your head way too far up your ass to realize there's an actual physical difference between how two keys sound anyway.
>>64407966
The same song in a different key is not going to be sad as opposed to happy, but there is still an subtle difference in the effect
>>64408012
>You seem to have your head way too far up your ass to realize there's an actual physical difference between how two keys sound anyway.
Then describe it.
>>64408014
Then describe it.
>>64408055
Are you 12? Do you need to be explained that different notes don't sound the same even though the same intervals may produce the same melody? Being intentionally difficult won't help anybody.
>>64404472
Not op, I have the same problem
>>64408126
>different notes don't sound the same even though the same intervals may produce the same melody
Still waiting for you to explain how one would sound Normie and the other not.
>>64408177
I never even made that argument chief. All I said was different keys sound different.
>>64408237
Oh so you forgot what the argument was about?
>>64408261
Yes. That is what happened.
desu he isn't OP. Wtf are you talking about
>>64408283
So different keys sound different but you can't explain how they sound different.
>>64408305
Meant to reply to this post >>64408261
>>64408326
>desu
Then fuck off m8
>>64408325
It doesn't need explaining if you have ears
>>64408359
It's pretty much b8 at this point friendo
>>64408359
>what I say is true!
>Why? i don't have to explain it!
Wow nice discussion. Stop posting anytime
>432 Hz is the more pure way to tune your instruments!
>>64405888
that's the worst analogy ever
if you make everything dark, shit seems darker
if you go up a semitone, shit is pretty much the same
They actually did research on this, I read it in How Music Works (not te one by David Byrne). They found that a difference in keys doesn't change the emotions in the piece played
Unless you're OP and you're legendary
>>64403735
I can relate, I really dislike C and G but I love E and F.
>>64404400
>just my two cents
Careful, anymore and you'll alter the meaning of your message.
Just for the sake of interest, keys used to sound different in the early baroque period and before. This is because equal temperament (the now ubiquitous system of tuning so that all notes are an equal distance apart) was only invented (or at the very least widely used) at that point in time. Before that some keys would be far more consonant and dissonant than others, making the choice of key very important for establishing the correct mood. This also means that some music from the baroque period and early isn't being heard in modern interpretations as the composer intended. If anyone is interested, I recommend trying to find some VSTs/patches for software pianos just to have a play around and hear the difference - it's really fun.
Like I said, not really relevant to the OP but interesting none the less.
>>64405552
>>64405745
It was towards the end of the production of the first album that Hendrix started down-tuning. Nearly everything that comes after is in E-flat or even sometimes in-between keys due to studio editing.
>>64403735
I play mostly in Eb or F# so yeah I get what you mean. But I have a thing for standard keys. lel at the plebians who can't hear when a song is in a diff pitch.
>>64410716
>lel at the plebians
fucking normies dddddddddddddddddddddddd
>diff pitch
compared to what
