punk > post-punk
punk:
>actually has something to say
>often very political
>deals with real social problems
>is fun
>is simple and actually admits that
>a lot of generic shit, but the formula for it to be good is also simple
>physically enjoyable on a primal level
>fans are cool people to be around
>very social music, there's a lot of punk shows
>many fans are genuinely into other genres of music
>talented musicians
post-punk:
>has absolutely nothing important to say
>totally apolitical
>art for art's sake - it's made only so art majors can masturbate over it
>no fun allowed the genre
>is just as simple but never admits that, also pretentious
>abundance of generic shit, it's very hard to find bands that don't copy the "classics" and there's basically no formula for making good post-punk since it's not meant to be "just entertaining" in the first place
>mostly failed pseudo-intellectual experiments
>fanbase compromises mostly of anti-mainstream neckbeards who download as obscure shit as they can find
>music for introverts and autists who don't socialize
>fans usually pretend to be knowledgeable about music and have diverse taste but usually listen in 90% to rock music anyway
>people who start playing post-punk usually do that because they have no actual musical talent
why is post-punk supposed to be good again?
>>63537664
>why is post-punk supposed to be good again?
because at least it isn't regular punk
i agree, even with some of the reasons you gave. Crass sucks though.
>>63537664 (You)
>>63537664
arguably Crass is post-punk though
>>63537664
>has absolutely nothing important to say
This doesn't really apply. Plenty of post-punk has plenty to say. Instead of simple negation like punk has post-punk offers a way forward.
>>63537697
>Crass sucks though
and what do you listen to? minor threat? lol
crass were one of the finest bands in existence desu
>wah wah wah, you can't like stuff that I don't like
Op mentions that post-punk is no fun allowed but says it's just entertaining
Op hates fun
Op is a hypocrite
>>63537957
>being this stupid
>>63537836
Minor Threat isn't one of my top favorites but cool. favorites are the Ramones, Wipers, Undertones, Gun Club, Replacements.
yep punk is superior to post-punk
>>63537664
punk:
>cites all kinds of non-musical traits
post-punk:
>cites musical traits, albeit those he dislikes
at least post-punk is music huh
can't see a reasonable argument there why punk is good. just sucks throughout you pinkhaired faggot
>>63537664
>implies political is better than apolitical
to the containment board it goes!
>>>/pol/
guys you've got it all wrong. post-punk is just what they call punk when it somehow happens to be good music
Punk never had anything important to say. It was merely a shadow of the type of anti-establishment shit that the hippies were pushing in the 60s but they had to find a newer, more shocking way of doing it. The music was more shit than in the 60s, and both pretty much stem from a kind of pathetic ennui induced by post-war liberalism (the politics in punk is mind-numbingly simple and moronic.).
>>63537664
you are a fucking retard boy,
generalization is a good word
you should put a dictionary
up your crass
you fucking retard
>>63538082
you mean when the music is pretentious enough so you can put it on ur chart? sounds like the definition of post-punk to me
>often very political
>this is a good thing
>>63538110
why would I put post-punk on my chart? most of it sucks, as does anything punk influenced.
>>63538132
agree. people interested in politics have shit taste in the arts, without fail.
>>63538142
Not true. People who are genuinely interested in the political know it should be kept as separate from the arts as possible. It's almost exclusively philistine socialists who try to push their agenda through bad music and poetry.
>>63538171
people who are genuinely interested in the political often are because deep down they're aware that they're not good enough for the arts.
>>63538217
Now you're truly just spouting bullshit. If you're genuinely interested in the arts, you should by extension be interested in the political and vice versa. If you are genuinely interested in either, you wouldn't be listening to punk.
OP here
>>63537697
shit taste
>>63537699
>>63537699
they have some strong post-punk elements that made them stand out from their peers but it's still straight up punk mostly (a.k.a. not shit)
>>63537708
name one post-punk band that does politics in an actual meaningful way
>>63538006
>Minor Threat
>Undertones
>Gun Club
>Replacements
all garbage so just as I thought - shit taste
>>63538040
each fo the points under punk is comparable to each under post-punk
>>63538047
it's good because it's not post-punk, also leave your projections to yourself lol
>>63538053
>>63538132
it isn't better necessarily but to give relevant political commentary actually requires at least some level of intelligence from musicians
>>63538082
no matter if you listen to garbage like the fall or interpol it's all shit
>>63538089
not every punk band is sex pistols fyi
>>63538092
epic, simply epic
>>63538171
I still judge music by its aesthetics first and foremost, politics that are on point only add to it for me, also I have much better taste than you most likely lol
you can all say what you want but your irrelevant post-punk garbage will stay both irrelevant and shit no matter in how many shitty threads you will post it - actual intellectual music isn't meant for you clearly
If you're including bands like Gang of Four and Killing Joke in the list of "Post Punk" then I'd have to disagree on certain levels. Entertainment had some good songs that made some very good socio-political commentary, as did the first two Killing Joke albums. Your comments about post punk apply more to a majority of so called "Pop-Punk" which I happen to like on certain levels. And your comments about post punk can actually be applied to alot of punk bands especially todays "Chaos Punk" and "Street Punk" along with a majority of "Oi!" bands. I've been listening to punk from the very beginning, and while you are correct on many levels on what punk is, I feel that in many ways, punk has lost it's way. Maybe it will find it's way again. Lord knows it's about time that punk bands stood up and spoke out about the international socio-political climate of the modern times, what with bombings by extremists, and fascists wanting to take over and ruin people's lives.
>>63538280
>actual intellectual music isn't meant for you clearly
there is only ONE thread on this board that discusses "actual intellectual music"
care to guess which one? here's a hint: no trashy Popular Music (eg punk, post-punk, rock, metal, edm, etc...) is discussed within it.
>>63538280
lol.
The Pop Group are a good example of a political post-punk band i guess btw.
>>63538321
I know which one it is but I'm not going to say it out loud
I'm just going to say that none of the people who claim to listen to post-punk post in it though lol
>>63538351
neither does anyone who believes punk has any redeemable characteristics. it's easily the worst of the rock subgenres, and rock is mostly trash in the first place, especially after 1972.
>>63538344(Nice dubs)
THIS
>>63538382
Everybody knows that rock and roll achieved perfection in 1974. It's a well known fact. Look it up.
>>63538421
>rock and roll
>achieved perfection
good one anon
>>63538382
>it's easily the worst of the rock subgenres
nah, there's a lot of amazing punk and you clearly haven't listened to enough of it to be able to judge properly
there's a lot of much worse ones and that includes post-rock for example
>>63538344
ok cool, they are shit though
>>63538449
>amazing
wrong. popular music never rises above mediocre
>>63538280
>also I have much better taste than you most likely lol
most likely nobody on this board has worse taste than you, you like Crass after all.
srsly explain to me, what makes a band thrashing around unmelodically on their instruments, spouting immature political radicalist buzzphrases while the same time incompetently trying to incorporate "artsy" aspects redeemable? they're like a combination of all the things bad about punk and those bad about post-punk.
>>63538464
well, better than Crass at least.
>totally apolitical
What is Gang of Four
>>63538464
>pointing out that The Pop Group is a post punk band with political lyrics is fact
>Claiming that The Pop Group is shit is merely an opinion
>>63537664
>fans are cool people to be around
you've never met any punks, have you?
>no fun allowed the genre
post-punk is like the best music to dance to and have fun
>people who start playing post-punk usually do that because they have no actual musical talent
it's the other way around
>>63537664
>>63537664
>believing art has to have social commentary
Wew
>>63538280
Any retard can make an ill informed political song
>>63537664
>Post-Punk is apolitical
what is republika
>>63537664
>>abundance of generic shit, it's very hard to find bands that don't copy the "classics" and there's basically no formula for making good post-punk since it's not meant to be "just entertaining" in the first place
I think you meant punk for that one buddy.
>>63538733(Nice dubs)
I understand The Minutemen, back in 1983, wrote a political song for Michael Jackson, but I don't think he ever bothered to sing it or record it.
>>63538475
>thrashing around unmelodically on their instruments
they don't even do that much of that, not to say when they do it's mostly to give an impression of an apocalyptic vision of a world full of hate, war and oppression that they warn about so much
>spouting immature political radicalist buzzphrases
they are "immature" for attention so that they can trigger those who disagree even more clearly, it's wonderful
and I won't agree with that they spout buzzphrases because some songs could even be called internally closed complete political manifestos full of valid points, so quite the opposite actually
>while the same time incompetently trying to incorporate "artsy" aspects redeemable
all the "artsy" "bullshit" they incorporate is there for a reason and has meaning - it's not just "lol look how weird and unconventional we are!" just like what most post-punk bands do
>>63538515
it's cute how you're trying to have relevant opinions but at the same time admit to enjoying replacements lol
>>63538535
that's actually a rare example of a great post-punk band - not because of the politics but because they knew how to write what are pretty much good pop songs without the tryhard pseudo-intellectual shit basically
>>63538536
they are pretty much as much punk as post-punk but even besides that what else I can say? I was shown a valid exaple so it's okay, they are still shit though
>>63538624
>you've never met any punks
I have, I actually have close friends who play punk and I'm not talking about punks the subculture here which is clearly shit mind you
>best music to dance to and have fun
it's hardly post-punk when it is that though but still a thin line - gang of four are good whereas lcd soundsystem is shit
also any imbecile can play generic punk but is the case with generic post-punk - a lot of good punk requires technical talent (mostly hardcore) and with shitty post-punk you can play same chords over and over again over a steady drumbeat and end it at that
>>63538844
>they don't even do that much of that
yeah, unmelodically was the wrong word perhaps. just thrashing around with no direction. they don't know how to make their instruments sound good, nor how to structure a song in an interesting way.
>full of valid points
>not just "lol look how weird and unconventional we are!" just like what most post-punk bands do
i disagree very much.
>>63537664
it really just sounds like you haven't listened to very much post-punk or no wave. also i would definitely consider that crass album to be post-punk and/or art punk.
>>63538944
>art punk
>>63538733
kendrick lamar is a good example, yeah
again, not everyone can say something on point and that's where the line should be drawn
>actually has something to say
>often very political
>deals with real social problems
>fans are cool people to be around
>very social music, there's a lot of punk shows
>many fans are genuinely into other genres of music
i listen music for actually MUSIC - these have nothing to do with music
>>63539382
>cherrypicking
>>63538844(Nice dubs)
>....I won't agree that they spout buzzphrases......
Would you prefer the term "Sloganeering"? Nazi Punks Fuck Off, Fight War Not Wars, Protest and Survive, and All Coppers Are Bastards are just chants that ignorant people parrot, but they really teach nothing and are empty and meaningless in the end. People are free to agree and disagree with these sentiments if they choose, but they are just empty slogans unless the individual in question has had personal life experiences, and can articulate why. Why should Nazi Punks Fuck Off? Why should we Fight War, Not Wars? Why should we Protest and Survive? Why are All Coppers Bastards? If people just chant these words without personal experience, or asking questions, and if those questions aren't answered to one's satisfaction, then, as I said before, they are, in the words of Crass, nothing more than SHOCK SLOGANS AND TOKEN TANTRUMS.
>The Pop Group are still shit, though......
Again, I point out, that is merely an opinion. As you have discovered, many people responding to this post think Crass are shit, but they are entitled to their opinion as well. It's all about personal taste. People will be receptive to the message(s) conveyed in their own way. There is no right or wrong way to convey or receive the message.
>>63539930
uh... crass don't just mindlessly chant shit though?
and if you genuinely think crass is bad and the pop group is anything but shit save for few ok songs then I don't know what to say honestly
anyone who knows anything about music will admit that crass are good while tpg is garbage pretty much
>>63537664
lol top kekm m8
>>63537664
>fanbase compromises mostly of anti-mainstream neckbeards who download as obscure shit as they can find
What the fuck are you talking about have you not seen those fuckers with the Joy Division shirts?
Quality bait thread
>>63537664
Whatever, but is Crass post-punk or punk and what is post-punk?
>>63540279
they aren't actual post-punk fans
not that joy division is anything but shit lol
