Is krautrock actually better than progressive rock? I kinda feel that it is.
Krautrock is progressive rock.
>>62612623
this
>>62612623
2/10
nearley got me there
>>62612623
>repetitive
>progressive
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
It's more subtle so it sits a lot better with pretentious tards who can't into dumb ass fantasy.
>>62612608
both have lots of good stuff and lots of rubbish. In Krautrock the rubbish gets more credit than it deserves just because it's considered a cool genre, and some of the stuff are pretty rare
>>62612623
Nope.
And to answer OP's question, in some ways it is. It sounds more organic than British prog bands of the time for sure.
krautrock is one of the more interesting subgenres of prog, just like zuehl
>/mu/ hates zeuhl
>>62612681
You're embarrassing yourself
>>62612747
How so?
>>62612731
zeuhl is fucking awful
>>62612731
jesus fuck I fucking hate zeuhl man
>>62612681
>>62612722
Explain why kraut isn't progressive
>>62612779
there's no wizards or dragons involved
Yes, but it was also less diverse
>>62612731
I really like Zeuhl, but it's not the most interesting prog subgenre
>>62612764
>>62612770
you guys are fags
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTH2ka7_DLk
>>62612872
how is it less diverse lol. Prog is an actual genre that describes the music. Krautrock just describes the place and time of release. It includes everything from Tangerine Dream to Gila to Popol Vuh to Kraftwerk. All very different and hardly related
>>62612941
that sounds more like standard prog/space rock to me. The main characteristic of zeuhl is the cheesy operetic vocals
>>62612959
THIS MORNING I WOKE UP
>>62612959
When people talk about progressive rock, they usually refer to the British kind (King Crimson, Yes, Genesis).
When people talk about Krautrock, they usually refer to the German kind (Can, Faust, Neu).
Both have their own styles though, and the two genres have almost no overlap if you consider that they never influenced each other and their influences were very different.
Tangerine Dream, Popol Vuh, and Kraftwerk shouldn't be called KrautROCK
>>62612959
>Krautrock just describes the place and time of release
Finally someone gets it. Context is so important when it comes to describing music. I feel like punching a wall everytime I see someone call shit like Suuns krautrock.
>>62613052
>When people talk about Krautrock, they usually refer to the German kind (Can, Faust, Neu).
>he thinks there's a non-german krautrock
>>62613052
>When people talk about progressive rock, they usually refer to the British kind
except it's also used for Rush, Mars Volta, Aphrodite's Child all the Italian stuff etc
>>62613167
there's Moolah
>>62613052
Progressive rock applies to a lot of shit released anywhere in the world all the way up to 2016. It's as generic a term as you can get.
>>62613167
Yes
Tortoise, Chrome, and Boredoms, for example.
>>62613178
Ye, but those are derivative of the British kind.
>>62612779
If we're talking about prog rock, it doesn't fit the criteria at all. Krautrock is far more experimental, isn't influenced by symphonic composers. and isn't technically complex.
Also >>62612829
>>62613217
>Ye, but those are derivative of the British kind.
That's like saying "punk" should exclusively apply to late 70's british stuff like The Damned and The Sex Pistols
>>62612764
>>62612770
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlJKKtgreqw
>>62613052
Even the German rock bands are more diverse or at least as diverse as British prog. Neu and Gila and Amon Dull have more differences between them than King Crimson and Yes and Genesis
>>62612608
Is the apple better than the banana?
>>62613282
yeah thanks for posting me Magma's most famous tune to change my opinion about zeuhl lol
>>62613301
no, bananas are better
>>62612608
the only good song on that album is Hallulewah
>>62613213
Depends on how you use it.
>>62613265
No, because "punk" is derivative of those bands.
>>62613285
Yeah, you might be right.
>>62613328
I like them but yeah, that got me thinking the same thing too. Try this instead:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STl30zvOvzU
>>62613379
>No, because "punk" is derivative of those bands.
You ass.
>>62613301
A better comparison would be ginger gold vs jonagold or something because they're in the same family
>>62613438
???
>>62612608
Krautrock is a subgenre of prog rock although I'd say standard prog has more to offer.
But yeah Tago Mago is a godly album
>>62612731
Zeuhl is fucking awful and Magma are garbage
>>62613485
>Zeuhl is fucking awful and Magma are garbage
Calling an entire subgenre garbage is stupid
Koenji made some of the best prog albums of all time
>>62613775
Fine, show me some Zeuhl that isn't blatantly overproduced, isn't cheesy as shit and doesn't sound like the Avant-teen version of DragonForce.
And don't just give me songs, I want full albums. A single song isn't going to change my rather strong opinion on a genre.
>>62613821
>doesn't sound like the Avant-teen version of DragonForce.
thats why its good
>>62613821
Ruins - Hyderomastgroningem
>>62613821
Hundred sights of koenji
>>62613868
So it's soulless wankery but because of muh ebin made up language and muh 2deep4u prog influences it's considered good?
You're not convicing me here familiy
>>62613880
Thanks
>>62613879
Shouldn't you be busy crying to Sporkcore you tranny faggot?
>>62613918
>wankery
opinion discarded
>>62613933
>stop using le buzword XDDDDD
It is just technical masturbation, just that this time it has a shitty choir that's even more compressed than your average Kanye record
>>62613987
alright dude, i really don't care to try and convince you to enjoy something
>>62614093
I'm in the mood to see if this genre has anything good at all, Magma have failed to impress me and nothing else I've heard stands out.
Unless there's nothing of noteworth in the entire genre, and that would be plain sad
>>62613880
Koenjihyakkei is literally at the pinnacle of rock music.
>>62614133
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhEX8rqJEWs
>>62614133
i just don't see you getting into very soon it if you apparently dislike magma that much.
maybe give Univers Zero - Ceux du Dehors a spin, Shub-Niggurath are also pretty different from what you describe (then again, so are Magma..)
>>62614244
Is this supposed to be taken seriously or am I being memed on?
>>62614254
My issue with Magma is not the made up language, nor is it their performances, neither is it the large ensemble of vocalists.
Rather it is a combination of two things. One, the cheesiness of the composition. I understand what the band is trying to do with the vocals being the forefront for the most pwrt, but it just sounds so fucking campy. Two, the blatant overproduction. I think TLOP was less compressed than most of Magma's discog.
Really, if you have any Zeuhl at all that lacks either of those flaws that would be nice.
>>62614327
>One, the cheesiness of the composition
GUD CRITIQUE
>I understand what the band is trying to do with the vocals being the forefront for the most pwrt, but it just sounds so fucking campy
Literally not even close to related to the first part of your critique, also dumb as shit
>Two, the blatant overproduction
I don't think you know what this means
>Really, if you have any Zeuhl at all that lacks either of those flaws that would be nice.
Clearly it's not for you. It's a super niche genre, so if you don't like Magma or Koenjihyakkei you're not gonna like Bondage Fruit or Dün or Eskaton or Ruins or Corima or any other bands because they all sounds fairly similar. Except Koenjihyakkei, which is far superior.
>>62612681
nice post you fucking waste of a life
>>62614420
Ruins don't really sound like any other Zeuhl band (I would even argue they are not Zeuhl, but whatever).
>>62614327
Dun's Eros is non-vocal Zeuhl, so maybe check that one out?
>>62612608
>better
>opinion
You answered your own question OP
>>62614420
That is a critique anon. They overuse major scales and chords, I can't think of a time I heard a Zeuhl song in a fucking minor key.
I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with the Ionian mode in any key but overusing it to death is fucking annoying.
Those choirs are so fucking loud that it's painful for me to listen to anything from the genre at my normal listening volumes. It's unbearable. Really, if it's not obvious compression then nothing is.
I don't get a lot of Avant-prog, shit like Cardiacs is overwhelming to me, and RIO just sounds like an even worse version of Pronk. I wouldn't be surprised if Zeuhl falls under the same category.
>>62614479
I'll try that out, maybe that will help me get over my gripes with the genre.
>>62614437
Right back at you, you filthy memer.
>>62614606
>That is a critique anon. They overuse major scales and chords, I can't think of a time I heard a Zeuhl song in a fucking minor key.
>I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with the Ionian mode in any key but overusing it to death is fucking annoying.
This is literally the dumbest critique I've ever heard.
>Those choirs are so fucking loud that it's painful for me to listen to anything from the genre at my normal listening volumes. It's unbearable. Really, if it's not obvious compression then nothing is.
Clearly you didn't listen to the link I posted above then, as it's mostly solo vocals, not choir.
>I don't get a lot of Avant-prog, shit like Cardiacs is overwhelming to me, and RIO just sounds like an even worse version of Pronk. I wouldn't be surprised if Zeuhl falls under the same category.
So go listen to whatever else it is that you're listening to, because again, this clearly isn't for you.
>>62614606
>I can't think of a time I heard a Zeuhl song in a fucking minor key
Not sure if it really is, but Magma's De Futura?
>I don't get a lot of Avant-prog, shit like
It's pretty diverse, really. And one of the most consistent genres ever. Just by going through RYM's worst AP albums I still find great albums.
>Cardiacs is overwhelming to me
Literally: they are way too good for me
>and RIO just sounds like an even worse version of Pronk.
What about Henry Cow?
>I wouldn't be surprised if Zeuhl falls under the same category.
Well, both Zeuhl and Avant Prog have roots in Zappa/Canterbury recordings, so I guess you would be right.
>>62614681
Way to criticize the tone of my argument and not my actual argument, fag.
You know what I meant when I said choirs, I was referring to all the vocals either solo or group. And that link was a fucking mess, the free jazz-esque instrumentation and the vocals really did not blend well.
Or you know, I want to expand my taste and not be a close-minded cuck.
>>62614723
I haven't heard that one I'm afraid, although very admittedly I have heard very little Zeuhl. Whatever I did try turned me off from the genre.
I mean, Cardiacs have a fairly interesting and unique style that I can dig in small doses but in a full length LP or even a fucking double album it's just way too much.
Henry Cow is really the only RIO I've tried, specifically In Praise of Learning. K felt it was just trying too hard at points to be weird and at others it was plain uninteresting.
Strangely enough I enjoy a fair amount of Zappa's work, although I'm not quite sure what Canterbury refers too
>>62614857
>Way to criticize the tone of my argument and not my actual argument, fag.
Nothing about the tone, the idiotic thing is that you're saying "it overuses major scales" as if that had any fucking bearing on the music, apart from something extremely shallow. Much zeuhl music uses unorthodox scales and just calling it minor or major doesn't do it justice.
>You know what I meant when I said choirs, I was referring to all the vocals either solo or group.
And here you're referring to solo vocals as choir. You have literally no clue what you're talking about?
>the free jazz-esque instrumentation
Oh you mean there's a fucking SAX?
>and the vocals really did not blend well.
It's not really supposed to blend, it's supposed to be zeuhl.
>Or you know, I want to expand my taste and not be a close-minded cuck.
It's 2late4that. Or rather, you know, don't force yourself to listen to music that you don't like. Go expand in directions of music that you do enjoy, it's a much better approach. Trust me, I've been there.
>>62614857
>I haven't heard that one I'm afraid
You probably should then. It's pretty dark, hypnotic, and funky?
>a full length LP or even a fucking double album it's just way too much.
Yeah, I get it, but if they didn't do that, they wouldn't have become my favorite band haha
>Henry Cow is really the only RIO I've tried
Well, RIO isn't really a genre, so all the bands tagged as such have very, very different styles. From Etron Fou who are like Garage Rock with Progressive Rock structures, to Univers Zero with all their dark and heavy chamber music.
>In Praise of Learning. K felt it was just trying too hard at points to be weird and at others it was plain uninteresting.
They were just playing Free Improvisation, something they already tried on the album that preceded it. The standout tracks are the first two though.
>although I'm not quite sure what Canterbury refers too
Soft Machine, Gong, Caravan, etc
Something like Jazz-Rock with cute pop hooks
>>62614954
Admittedly if I really wanted to I could spend a few hours attempting to figure out which variant of which mode in which scale the band(s) play in, but then again it is 1am and I don't feel like listening to a saxophone screaming over an off key opera.
Stop getting into semantics, you're just getting more pretentious by the minute.
Yes, there's a sax, and it happened to remind me of several European Free Jazz pieces I have heard in the past. Anything wrong with drawing subjective comparisons?
So it's supposed to sound like shit?
Stop with the pretentiousness man, you aren't even contributing, just fucking leave.
>>62614999
That might be interesting. How does that stack up to K.A.? That's the Magma album I last heard (and therefore recall best) if I'm not wrong.
I can defintely understand the appeal of Cardiacs, they are quite fun and Tim's manic vocals are really unique. They just end up becoming too much for me.
Interesting, maybe I should give it another shot then. What are some other "classic" albums from RIO?
The first track on IPOL just had some really annoying vocals which just made me shut off and I don't even recall how the second one went. The rest ranged from rather messy pieces (which makes a little more sense now I know it was improvised) to ambient noodling.
Haven't heard any from that, with exception of Soft Machine I haven't even heard of those other groups.
>>62615150
>off key opera.
Good job, showing you know nothing again. There's nothing off key about unorthodox scales and modes.
>Stop getting into semantics
There's a huge difference between choir and solo voice. It's not just about semantics, it's about you being a clueless dumbfuck.
>Anything wrong with drawing subjective comparisons?
No, but there is when you say "free jazz instrumentation" as if it's one of the key issues you have with the music when in fact there's really nothing free jazz about the instrumentation other than the sax.
>So it's supposed to sound like shit?
It's supposed to be different.
Let's tackle this from another perspective: what kind of musics are your favourites, and why do you think it's a good idea to try to "get into" zeuhl when you're clearly not even remotely enjoying it or genres surrounding it?
>>62615150
>How does that stack up to K.A.?
Very, very different. Last time I listened to KA it sounded a lot like MDK to me, but De Futura from Udu Wudu is a whole different thing. Dark and hyotic versus the ecstatic joy of MDK/KA.
>What are some other "classic" albums from RIO?
Etron Fou - Batelages
Univers Zero - Heresie
Samla Mammas Manna - Maltid
Stormy Six (no idea what album, haven't listened to them)
>really annoying vocals
Literally the best female singer ever
>I don't even recall how the second one went
It's pretty different. It's 15 minutes long versus the 3 of the first track. It's "sparsier", but it has very emotive moments too.
>The rest ranged from rather messy pieces (which makes a little more sense now I know it was improvised) to ambient noodling.
Yup. Not really a fan of it except for the intro of the third track (it sounds like a collage of all kinds of modern experimental music), some vocals from the 5th track, and some interesting moments from the improvs (when they sound like a train or a jungle).
Watching these videos (from the band memebers) first might be a good idea though (they are weirdly exciting)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2WSeZZV6iQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfmyiVViOo0 (starts around minute one)
>Haven't heard any from that, with exception of Soft Machine I haven't even heard of those other groups.
Gong are worth a try for being Space Rock pioneers.
>>62612623
This, Krautrock is the best prog subgenre though
be honest here doesn't everybody have a cardiacs phase at one point
I tried to listen to A Little Man and a House a while back and have no idea how I enjoyed a full ALBUM of that. I unselected all of it but res & loosefish scapegrace because i think that I will always like them songs
>>62615238
I know my fair share of music theory, I know they're using unusual modes and in cases variants of said modes. I don't really care about that, as far as I'm concerned it doesn't flow well, it sounds out of place.
Fine, whatever. All of the operatic vocals on the Zeuhl songs I have heard are incredibly painful for me to listen to at volumes I normally use to listen to other music.
Happy now?
I have nothing against free jazz, I enjoy some free jazz albums. It was just an extra adjective to add on to my sentence. Picking on tiny little details does not make you look smarter, it makes you look more like a jackass.
My favorite album would be Slint - Spiderland. My favorite band would be Swans. If you want a thorough breakdown of my taste have a look at my RYM account.
https://rateyourmusic.com/~vtimdon
>>62615331
I think dark and hypnotic would suit me better, I'll try it out. The "ecstatic joy" thing went way too far for my liking.
I'll give those albums a shot, maybe I'll enjoy them more.
That was just my opinion on that one performance, I haven't heard anything else from her singing.
IPOL just felt really underdone and it lacked the ability to grab my attention. If RIO is as big of a genre as you say it is maybe other albums will.
I should try Gong out, what album would you say is a good starting point? Also need to check out Soft Machine, what's a good entry level record?
>>62615527
you have a bad taste but i agree with everything you said in this thread
>>62615527
>I know my fair share of music theory, I know they're using unusual modes and in cases variants of said modes. I don't really care about that, as far as I'm concerned it doesn't flow well, it sounds out of place.
>My favorite album would be Slint - Spiderland. My favorite band would be Swans. If you want a thorough breakdown of my taste have a look at my RYM account.
Very well, you don't like unusual modes and certainly not unusual music. You like it safe, so why do you want to listen to zeuhl which has the goal of being the opposite of that?
>Fine, whatever. All of the operatic vocals on the Zeuhl songs I have heard are incredibly painful for me to listen to at volumes I normally use to listen to other music.
Makes no sense after you've complained that the music is compressed - if it's highly compressed, everything should be the same loudness. Just turn it down a little if you think it's too loud, it's really not that hard.
>I have nothing against free jazz, I enjoy some free jazz albums. It was just an extra adjective to add on to my sentence. Picking on tiny little details does not make you look smarter, it makes you look more like a jackass.
Literally nothing about my post implied that you didn't like free jazz, it was a comment on your absolutely lousy critique that was factually incorrect.
Again, why do you want to get into zeuhl?
>https://rateyourmusic.com/~vtimdon
Jesus christ.
>>62613918
How can you listen to Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh and not enjoy it? It's just awesome fun. Magma has tons of good melodies and a great groove, everything a band needs.
>>62615527
>I think dark and hypnotic would suit me better
Yeah, especially considering you have Earth 2 as a 5.0
>That was just my opinion on that one performance, I haven't heard anything else from her singing.
Better get used to it ;)
She sings in a lot of great albums, which reminds me that you might dig Winter Songs by Art Bears. It's almost Henry Cow, but song oriented and very experimental. If it's too experimental, listen to Desperate Straights by Slapp Happy (same scenario, different name).
>If RIO is as big of a genre as you say it is maybe other albums will
RIO is not a genre, but Avant Prog is.
>I should try Gong out, what album would you say is a good starting point? Also need to check out Soft Machine, what's a good entry level record?
Pothead Pixies and Third, respectively
And now that you are sharing your RYM, I'll do the same
https://rateyourmusic.com/~noff
Maybe you would like some stuff from it? My taste is very, very overblown though.
>>62615504
The end of RES is way too awesome
>>62615632
Some people don't like fun.
>>62615527
>Behold... the Arctopus
why
>>62615677
>Pothead Pixies
Ignore this and listen to Flying Teapot. If you like that listen to Angel's Egg and You.
>>62615713
Yeah, I meant Flying Teapot. I got confused.
>>62615677
>The end of RES is way too awesome
you talking about the "my hope day is forever coming closer" part because i love that
>>62615790
I mean the solo and the thing with like ten sections in less than 30 seconds or something thing.
>>62615622
I'm tired as fuck man, whatever, if you want to be a pretentious shithead do as you wish, I'm going to fucking bed.
>>62615632
It just felt way too cheesy and campy for me, just not my thing.
>>62615677
Earth 2 is fucking genius, so yeah, I'll definitely check Udu out.
I'm usually not a big fan of song-oriented albums but I'll try it out, I can dig experimentation when it's used in a context that makes sense.
I'll try Third out and Flying Teapot, maybe I'll enjoy those.
Your taste really does lean towards the avant-prog side of the spectrum, I do enjoy several of your favorite artists alot though.
I guess we simply have different definitions of fun.
>>62615689
Because it's interesting tech metal that, while certainly nothing unique or special, is pretty much like junk food. It's fun as fuck.
>>62615841
>Because it's interesting tech metal that, while certainly nothing unique or special, is pretty much like junk food. It's fun as fuck.
they sound like i wrestledabearone without singing and more bouncy its so bad dude
>>62615841
Keep calling me pretentious as if that means anything. In fact, you're the one pretending to be something you're not here. Why didn't you even answer my question? Why on earth do you want to get into zeuhl which is the opposite of the safe little haven of music that you enjoy? Nothing wrong with enjoying what you listen to, it's just not at all compatible with zeuhl music, and it shows in how you aggressively dismiss the genre after hearing a few samples of it.
>>62615876
IWABO are terrible though, you make it sound like their vocals are good.
And BTA aren't mathcore, they're more prog metal
>>62615889
Blah blah blah didn't read
Good night familia
>>62613217
>>62613052
lol, no
>>62612959
Correct, It's the same with Post-Rock, muh Slint, Tortoise, Cul De Sac, Stereolab, Talk Talk = Post-rock, when really they are just coined by music reviewers and have very little to do with the actual music. Those bands don't have a certain sound or type that strings them together, only media. The same applies for Krautrock.
>>62614999
>They were just playing Free Improvisation, something they already tried on the album that preceded it. The standout tracks are the first two though.
>Bittern Storm over Ulm over Ruins
Have you listened to the album? I hope you are just forgetting the 1st song, there is no way that is better than ruins.
>>62615889
i like kobaia a lot and think that udu wudu is a really good album and even i find you really annoying hampus
>>62615961
Literally all genre tags are just media trying to string stuff together.
>>62615976
Welcome to the club. There are no benefits to being in this club.
>>62615990
hampy quit it its time to stop
>>62615961
lol, why did I think you are talking about Unrest. I totally agree with you on that btw.
>>62615961
What genre is Can then?
>Have you listened to the album? I hope you are just forgetting the 1st song, there is no way that is better than ruins.
I'm talking about IPOL
But yeah, Bitter Storm is my favorite anyways
>>62615976
hampus is lovely though
>>62615990
Genres are more like trends, imo
>>62612608
the term 'krautrock' encompasses all 70s bands from germany... most of those bands were blues-based knockoffs of american bands. those bands were never heard from again... the special krautrock bands were the experimental electronic-based groups... those groups were game changers and just as good or better than progressive rock groups of that period..
the only good thing about krautrock is that it very slightly influenced a couple of my favorite buzzcock songs
>>62616040
>hampus is lovely though
no he isn't he's a huge asshole
>>62616040
>Genres are more like trends, imo
Literally no. Genres are arbitrary labels that people, usually media, put on musical acts to try and lump them together in some sort of categories, even when these categories make no sense at all.
>>62616146
ill put a genre up your ass if you wont shut the fuck up hampus
>>62616040
>Krautrock
>''The term was originated, briefly and jokingly, by Melody Maker journalists. Although it was rejected by the musicians themselves''
>As is often the case with musical genre labels, few of the bands wished to see themselves pigeon-holed and most tended to eschew the term. The term is problematic due to the considerable differences between artists so labelled.
>Julian Cope says - - "Krautrock is a subjective British phenomenon,"
>Krautrock is an eclectic and often very original mix of post-psychedelic jamming and moody progressive rock mixed with ideas from contemporary experimental classical music
a minute in wikipedia.
>>62616146
>Literally no
>Genres are arbitrary labels
>implying trends are not arbitrary labels too
>lump them together in some sort of categories, even when these categories make no sense at all
>implying a trend can't be a category
>>62616107
Not really, imo.
>>62616196
So, what are you trying to prove?
>>62612623
It is.
Daily reminder that Can was a self-described progressive rock group.
>>62616223
A trend is actually some kind of phenomenon of commonality between multiple actors, not just an arbitrary label. People often try to classify musical genres by looking at trends, however, but generally fail miserably.
>>62616265
hampus i have a genre in my hand right now should i stick it in you?
>>62612872
>>62613052
>Both have their own styles though, and the two genres have almost no overlap if you consider that they never influenced each other and their influences were very different.
>The term is problematic due to the considerable differences between artists so labelled.
>Krautrock is - - progeressive rock
Progressive rock - - is more likely to experiment with compositional structure, instrumentation, harmony, rhythm, and lyrical content.
Can have non-typical compostional structure, experimentation with rhythm and instrumentation.
>Progressive rock originally referred to progressive pop[16] or "classical rock" in which a band performed together with an orchestra, but the term's use broadened over time to include Miles Davis-style jazz fusion, some metal and folk rock styles, and experimental German bands.[17] It does not refer to a single style but to an approach that combines elements of diverse styles. Jerry Ewing, editor of Prog Magazine, explains that "Prog is not just a sound, it's a mindset,"[18] and Dream Theater guitarist John Petrucci points out that it is defined by its very lack of stylistic boundaries.[19]
>>62616223
So, what are you trying to prove?
>>62616520
>>62616265
It's more than just an arbitrary label, but it's still a label.
>generally fail miserably
They work very well, save for some specific genres that are nothing compared to all there is to music.
What would be the best way to classify music then?
>>62616520
I don't agree with all of that, but what you said supports my point. Krautrock bands were not influenced by Progressive Rock bands (even if they have some shared characteristics).
>>62616774
>What would be the best way to classify music then?
Either a cladistic system that demonstrates whence the music originates, or simply using descriptors for each individual release. Genres are completely unnecessary.
>>62616826
>Either a cladistic system that demonstrates whence the music originates
Isn't that almost the same as a trend, but far less specific?
>using descriptors for each individual release
Judging by how RYM is going this at the moment, I really wouldn't like it if they removed the genres and started using that only instead.
>Genres are completely unnecessary
They group together music that features similar elements, how is that unnecessary?
>>62616907
>Isn't that almost the same as a trend, but far less specific?
No, not even close.
>Judging by how RYM is going this at the moment, I really wouldn't like it if they removed the genres and started using that only instead.
Because RYM and RYMers are retarded to no end.
>They group together music that features similar elements, how is that unnecessary?
Because 1) they're not descriptive of the music, so if it's a genre you've never heard of you have no idea what it's going to be, 2) they're very often way too broad and inconsistent to be meaningful in any way, 3) descriptors would do the same job but much, much better, 4) too often they group together music that sounds nothing alike (post-punk, new wave, krautrock, ambient techno, the list could just go on and on with genres that feature no real common sound core).
>>62616986
>No, not even close.
What's the difference?
>Because RYM and RYMers are retarded to no end.
They are using the same method you are proposing regarding descriptors. So what do they do that are doing it wrong?
>1) they're not descriptive of the music, so if it's a genre you've never heard of you have no idea what it's going to be
Well, it could be argued that you don't know what happy music sounds like once you have heard it (note: sounds like, not feels like).
But even if that's not enough, after listening to one album from a genre you already know what the others are going to sound like (just like happy music?). Also, there are always descriptions of genres.
>2) they're very often way too broad and inconsistent to be meaningful in any way
When it comes to modern genres? Sure. But for older genres it works like wonders. I mean, Rock n Roll is not broad nor inconsistent, for example.
>3) descriptors would do the same job but much, much better
How would you use descriptors to describe Johnny B Goode?
>4) too often they group together music that sounds nothing alike (post-punk, new wave, krautrock, ambient techno, the list could just go on and on with genres that feature no real common sound core).
Yes, but is that the problem of the genre, or how people are using the genre? For example, Krautrock could easily be divided into the psych-rock oriented groups and the electronic oriented ones. Same for the new-wave-y brand of Post Punk versus the experimental side of it.
Also, wouldn't ambient techno be (almost) a descriptor?
>>62617180
>What's the difference?
Trends are current phenomena of commonality. A cladistic system would look only to whence genres have evolved, that is, it would be a semi-hierarchical network of intertwining groupings depending on originators, but it's really not a feasible system, and again falls into the issue of trying to categorize something that is inherently poor for categorizing.
>Well, it could be argued that you don't know what happy music sounds like once you have heard it (note: sounds like, not feels like).
Happy music would be a shit descriptor. Things like key, tempo, rhythms, chord progressions and so on would be much better, as are simpler things like length, place of origin, instrumentation and overall concept. With many of these for each release you can easily compare and find others that are alike or completely different depending on your preferences.
>Rock n Roll is not broad nor inconsistent
Yes, because Chuck Berry and Tommy Steele are so similar, both considered rock n roll artists usually.
>How would you use descriptors to describe Johnny B Goode?
Guitar, drums, electric bass, high pitch black vocals, piano, blues scale and form, verse-chorus, high tempo, swing rhythm 4/4. Something like that, but could be much more elaborate.
>Yes, but is that the problem of the genre, or how people are using the genre?
It's an inherent problem of trying to lump together music into neat little categories when such a task is impossible and retarded in the first place.
>Also, wouldn't ambient techno be (almost) a descriptor?
No.
>>62617696
>electric bass
haven't listened to johnny b goode in a while, but as far as i remember it still was using a walking string bass from country and western tradition
Psychedelia. free improv and generally less technical proficiency put it firmly outside the category of prog rock. Otherwise many musical experiments from the sixties are progressive rock too.
And yes, not even Pink Floyd are prog rock.
>>62617696
Well, in that case I agree with you, because that's sort of what I meant with the trends thing. But just to be sure, is your system similar to a phylogenetic tree?
Place of origin doesn't really strike me as a good descriptor, but the rest seems fine.
Haven't listened to Steele, but the "big" rock n roll artists sound all similar to me.
>Guitar, drums, electric bass, high pitch black vocals, piano, blues scale and form, verse-chorus, high tempo, swing rhythm 4/4. Something like that, but could be much more elaborate.
Fair enough. Sounds pretty accurate and consistent to me.
>>62614244
Literally circuscore
Diablo Swing Ochestra-tier
>>62615433
Krautrock is not prog, krautrock is more rooted in early electronical music, drone and psychedelia.
Prog is symphonic and it's not repetitive.
That being said, I prefer krautrock much more.
Can and Genesis are all I need, fuck it.
>>62617942
Have to agree with this
awful wacky shti
>>62617855
>Haven't listened to Steele, but the "big" rock n roll artists sound all similar to me.
you know fuck all about music its actually kind of laughable
go listen to more uptown funk and circus prog music you retard
>>62617783
>And yes, not even Pink Floyd are prog rock.
This is true
>>62612731
Zeuhl is awful.
I fucking love zeuhl
>>62612764
>>62612770
http://youtu.be/M5LvqRbMgfU
Who is top krautrock band?
I love Can, Faust, and Amon Duul II about equally but if really had to choose itd be Can
haven't spent as much time with Neu
>>62617696
>Guitar, drums, electric bass, high pitch black vocals, piano, blues scale and form, verse-chorus, high tempo, swing rhythm 4/4. Something like that, but could be much more elaborate.
God if albums were described like this it would be a fucking dream. Couldn't tell you how many times I've delved into psych rock/krautrock only to find the bands to be WILDLY different.
>>62620996
First NEU is GOAT senpai
>>62613041
MY HORSES ARE MANYYYY
Normally I'd disagree but yesterday I tripped on 2 tabs of acid way out in the woods and listened to Future Days. Now I'm not so sure any more
>>62612713
What would you say is the "rubbish" that gets overly praised?
>>62620996
Neu's first album i interesting to say the least. It's a bit like Faust's first album with how minimalist it is, though I really can't say I enjoy too much; Hallogallo is mind numbing to me in the worst way.
I haven't listened to enough krautrock to make a real decision on who's on top, in fact I'm only right now listening to Tago Mago for the first time, but I'd have to say Amon Duul II's first three albums are definitely some of the best the genre has to offer.
>>62620996
Yeti is the best album, Can is the best band.
krautrock is psychedelic rock really, with all the repetition and whatnot and of course it's better than prog
>>62621449
Tanz Der Lemminge is definitely on par with Yeti.
>>62621449
Deluxe best album, Can best band
>>62621586
maybe, but I give Yeti extra credit for being so consistently good. Even the bonus tracks are good and it's 70 minutes long.
>>62621624
You'd like Eloy's Dawn, probably better even.
>>62621717
True enough, Yeti definitely ends stronger too. Fucking Sandoz In The Rain is incredible after the Yeti jam.
Phallus Dei is better than Yeti
>>62621868
If we're strictly talking about the title tracks, they each do something better than the other. Shrat's percussion on the Phallus Dei track is an incredible 4 fucking minutes there's nothing else like it in krautrock, the hoots and the hollering it's so fucking tribal and raw it's an amazing track. But Yeti has the two guitars playing off each other in fantastic ways and Leopold definitely stepped up his drumming game for that track. The bass is also more fun to follow on Yeti. As albums well it just depends which you prefer and there ain't much to do there. Phallus Dei is more chaotic and it's easy to see how people could prefer that. Yeti is far more controlled, but I will say that Amon Duul II took the chaotic sessions of Phallus Dei and created incredible things with the controlled nature of Soap Shop Rock, Archangels Thunderbird, etc.
Tanz's improv track is in a league of its own, probably one of the best ambient tracks ever created. As an album the things they do on it rivals some of Can's stuff though, it definitely has its moments where it's superior to both the previous works. To sum it all up they created three fucking amazing albums, and if Wolf City had been a double album with a set of improv tracks Amon Duul II could've changed the fucking world.
How would he jamming of Can or Amon Duul II compare to the jamming of the Grateful Dead?
>inb4 noodling
>>62622116
Very well written. And yes, the title track on Phallus Dei is godly.
Tago Mago is THE krautrock album.
>>62622154
Amon Duul II are less prone to single or two string plucking, American rock is full of that as influenced by the blues era and it's produced some amazing things.
>>62612608
Can we all admit we just found out about this band because of Damo's Stand?
>>62623232
mago tago is goat
>>62623232
I got into Can because of /mu/ and then literally 2 days later the new Jojolion chapter came out with Vitamin C
>>62625096
/mu/ usually recommends shit music
>>62625502
/mu/ is not a person. It's just a place where a bunch of angry people come to shoot the shit about music and post memes.
>>62625550
yes
>>62617696
your descriptor idea sounds great, but it seems a little too labor intensive to go through my library and label everything so specifically.
Not as good as Rush, King Crimson and Pink Floyd, but better than the rest of prog rock for sure.
>>62629605
Maybe you wouldn't need to.
RYM is already implementing something like this (it's a pretty new feature though), so they could eventually have something as elaborate as that. Once this is a thing, you can use mp3tag or something to tag your albums with said tags (and/or with genres too!).
>>62629651
Definitely better than Rush
King Crimson and Pink Floyd (early) are at the top though, you are right
