Why do so many people refer to rappers as talentless and believe hip hop is less than other music?
because they say theres no melody and no instruments being made and you dont need a good voice for it but any screeching idiot with a guitar is good
>>61735980
because it is juvenile in nature and the overwhelming majority of the current relevant rappers are unoriginal and uninspired
Cause it's /mu/ there's somebody to hate everything on here
Its the electro-swing of black music.
>>61736022
How is it juvenile in nature? Also Kendrick is inspired and making great music. While I'm not a huge fan of Drake he certainly is original and once again while I'm not really a fan of trap rap you can't deny that it has a unique sound
>>61736022
Also when has /mu/ given a fuck about "currently relevant" artists because most currently relevant pop artists are garbage but I don't go around saying pop is a garbage genre
Because it requires less talent than other genres. Objectively, the ideas of melody and harmony are discarded. The same thing happens in metal. Any genre which doesn't have strong melody, harmony and rhythm requires less skill than those that do.
It's not opinion, it's science.
>>61736075
>science
derp
>>61735980
Anyone can rhyme words
Its even easier to make a looped beat
>>61736075
Just because it isn't difficult to make doesn't mean it's bad music. Also I would say that the lack of melody makes the focus on rythm twofold
>>61736084
>implying music isn't a science
It's called music theory for a reason.
girl you got me in a trance
please take off your pants
-waka flocka
>>61736097
>Also I would say that the lack of melody makes the focus on rythm twofold
That's like saying a burger without meat and cheese makes you taste the buns twofold
>>61735980
Because they don't listen to it.
Seriously, it's the same with metal. The people who criticize metal as "only noise" or "talentless" are usually very narrow-minded, and only listen to music that is within their comfort zone.
>>61736111
Not really because a burger without meat and cheese is by definition not a burger. Music doesn't have such rigid definitions. Also what's with all the fucking food analogies on here? Did music become food while I wasn't looking?
Why do so many people refer to crunkcore artists as talentless and believe crunkcore is less than other music?
>>61736132
lol this is such a shitty argument since memerap fans are usually the most closed minded on the board
>>61736075
Not sure if baiting but if not, what metal bands did you listen to?
>>61736141
Music doesn't have definitions like that but I would say songs do. Songs should always have aspects of melody, rhythm and harmony.
Why do so many people refer to KPOP artists as talentless and believe KPOP is less than other music?
>>61736163
And hip-hop does have those elements, just less of them. When was the last time you heard a rap song that was literally just a guy talking over drums? Because that isn't hip-hop it's slam poetry
>>61736159
I've listened to a lot of different metal. If it has screaming then the song loses melody as screaming is atonal. Also the harmonic aspects of modern metal seems to be very weak considering half the guitar tabs are binary.
>>61736151
> memerap is all rap
> memerap fans are the only rap fans
>>61736201
All rap is memerap, yes.
>>61736196
> screaming is atonal
You have not listened to much metal if you think that's true. Also the vocals aren't the only instrument in play
>>61736022
Nice cherry picking and generalization, bud!
>>61736032
This is true. But the public image of rap has been tainted since its birth. Metalheads and rockists will shit on hip-hop until the day they die
>>61736057
This. Even the "vapid" shit has interesting production, vocals, energy, or flows. DS2, one of the most hyped albums of 2015, has some genuinely beautiful and introspective moments on it whether it be from the producers or Future himself
>>61736075
>the ideas of melody and harmony are discarded
Yeah, but this is patrician when noise does it, isn't it? And that's besides the point, hip-hop is lyrically driven. It's the only genre to do so. Even if it isn't taken advantage of, it offers the most logical output for lyrically-rich music. Hell, top 40 pop rappers will throw in a couple metaphors or symbolism into their shit. Also, that's not skill, that's talent, which doesn't even equate to good music anyways. You can be an actual autist and pull good music out of your ass, and it could be extremely simplistic and "easy" to make and that wouldn't belittle it at all. And talent is subjective. Don't be the ass who tries to pull the objective card just so he can feel good about his "superior" opinion.
>>61736105
Make sure you take out the pit in those before you eat them! People choke on that shit dude :)
>>61736111
Uh, sure? That's a piss-poor analogy, you're implying the lyrics are just the support for the music. Which, in most other cases, that's true. But for hip-hop, the lyrics would be the burger; take out all the toppings and the buns (the beat/music), and you're left with some steak that's fine on its own (the lyrics)
I'm not a backpacker, it's just a vocally driven genre
>>61735980
http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-rap-music-real-music
This place is a goldmine
Why do so many people refer to house music artists as talentless and believe house is less than other music?
>>61736196
But what specific bands, maybe you just listen to some shitty ones. Because there are a lot of shitty metal bands out there.
> half the guitar tabs are binary
You probably listened to deathcore. Which most people consider a shitty genre.
>>61736216
This guy gets it
>>61736216
>top 40 pop rappers will throw in a couple metaphors or symbolism into their shit
Well thats it then, fucking geniuses.
>>61736216
>hip-hop is lyrically driven
Writing lyrics requires no musical knowlege so there goes that argument
Why do so many people refer to UKGarage artists as talentless and believe UKGarage is less than other music?
>>61736239
He said "even". You didn't even bother putting in the entire sentence from his quote. Now that is some cherry picking on a whole new level
>>61736142
because it is, hip hop is a valid form of music, crunkcore is not
>>61736233
Hey, I quite like metal, I'm just saying that a lot of it's not as melodically and harmonically demanding as jazz, rock or pop
>>61736240
Lyrics are one element of the music and if you're going to argue that lyrics can't make a piece of music more enjoyable than you are an idiot
>>61736216
>Yeah, but this is patrician when noise does it, isn't it?
Maybe because rapping does not involve musical instruments and rappers who play musical instruments, or even have minimal musical education, or really know anything about music at all, are an exception rather than the rule. It could also be so because most rap lyrics are empty of significant content, be it because you're bragging about your material wealth or your sexual prowess, rapping about how good you rap, or other such nonsense. It could also be so because most hip-hop music just sucks, and it's musical value is difficult to find even with best intentions. I say all this as a life-long hip-hop head who's not embarrassed about listening to objectively shitty music. Here, have a listen to this Icelandic literal backpacker track about growing up with hip-hop to prove how "in" I am: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftKnrdYFG9M
>>61736258
>u just cherry picking omg
>hip-hop is lyrically driven.
(not true by the way)
>It's the only genre to do so.
>(not even true)
>Even if it isn't taken advantage of, it offers the most logical output for lyrically-rich music.
[citation needed]
>Hell, top 40 pop rappers will throw in a couple metaphors or symbolism into their shit.
Big whoop
>Also, that's not skill, that's talent,
[citation needed]
>which doesn't even equate to good music anyways.
You said it
>You can be an actual autist and pull good music out of your ass,
How is autism relevant here?
>and it could be extremely simplistic and "easy" to make and that wouldn't belittle it at all.
If its shit, its shit
> And talent is subjective.
You said it
> Don't be the ass who tries to pull the objective card just so he can feel good about his "superior" opinion.
Then why can't memeraptards accept lots of people dislike the genre and have to start threads crying like little bitches about it?
Because it is.
t. someone who listens almost exclusively to rap
>>61736279
Crunkcore is a valid for of music, hip hop is not
>>61736286
I'm not saying they make music less enjoyable, but lyrics are not an element of music.
>>61736282
Okay I can get on board with that a little. But there are always exceptions. But I'd say the strength of metal lies more in song structure, in rhythm and in setting a certain atmosphere.
>>61735980
Rappers literally just talk over other peoples music
>>61736305
>Then why can't memeraptards accept lots of people dislike the genre and have to start threads crying like little bitches about it?
This.
>>61736319
> Lyrics are not an element of music
>>61736431
Have you ever taken music theory as a subject?
The elements are
>Rhythm
>Dynamics
>Form
>Melody
>Harmony
>Tone color
>Texture
This is music theory 101.
>>61736509
Lyrics directly alter the timbre of the vocal instrument, so they are a determining factor of tone colour. Lyrics typically also determine the vocal rhythm, unless there is an intention to avoid doing so. They often influence the melodic line and harmonic structure; think lieder. So to say that lyrics are not an important element of vocal music is a half-baked idea.
>>61736022
>juvenile in nature
>>61735980
Because they only listen to the stuff on the radio
>>61736196
>Screaming is atonal
Dude, metal is shit but that's not how sounds work.
>>61737884
And you can judge all of those musical things, because they are musical. Lyrics are not. A person's nasal cavities also directly alter the sound of their vocals, but their nose trills are not an element of music either.
Most rap is shit like most poetry is shit, made by any but the supremely talented or cultivated artists collections of words tend to fall into trite and derivative territory. Beatmaking is a different story
>>61736216
>but this is patrician when noise does it, isn't it?
No. Not unless the artist is actually making an attempt to use other tools like timbre, dynamics, etc. to make a coherent piece with good pacing.
Most noise artists don't do this in a tasteful or meaningful way and unless you're interested in textures for textures sake, it's really uninteresting.
>>61736075
>Metal
>Discards melody, harmony and rhythm
Nigga, you listened to some high school garage Death Metal band and then just discarded the entire genre, didn't you?
>>61735980
because at best they're only familiar with trap + a few radio hits like eminem and 50 cent "in da club"
>>61738657
The problem is defining exactuly what music is though. Many people would argue that music is much more than just what >>61736509 this guy summed up. Those are music theory, yes, but they're not the only thing worth talking about in music. What about music without rhythm? What about John Cage's 4'33"? Who are you to say that's not music?
Rap is basically poetry, an artform of its own, but who's to say it can't be part of music. Hell, even song titles or album covers can influence how you perceive certain songs, and can IMO be part of music. Biggest example to me would be Tim Hecker.
>>61738717
Your perception of music is deeply limited if you want all of your music to have good pacing.
>>61738710
And to expand, the unfortunate prevalence of "rap" these days in its rolled over and totally commercialized form is what creates this general disdain for the "rap artists" of today which people are the most familiar with. When Kendrick Lamar is the most talented widely celebrated rapper of the current era then the picture is painted.
>>61738804
And by that I mean Kendrick just sucks the least.
>>61738799
I'm ok with not being able to listen to walls of texture that change gradually over the course of 10 minutes.
There's enough music with good pacing to keep me in supply of new music I enjoy for a few hundred years.
>>61735980
that may be the most cringeworthy picture of all time
>>61738776
And I disagree and I think rap is shit because of that reason. So goes the world. I don't know if the other anon thinks rap is shit, but he seems to agree on my view about lyrics.
>>61736008
b8 detected
>>61738760
>>61738530
I've listened to all the main rappers /mu/ talks about and wanted to cement my ears over by
I love hip-hop, it's probably my favorite genre because' it's so expansive. The boundaries are pretty loose, and with sampling being an accepted practice there's room for people to take old ideas and re-purpose them into something different. This is why it's so unfortunate to me that so many people choose to do the typical sixteen bar rhyme scheme over repetitive common time instrumental where there's either no samples and a bunch of generic synths/percussion or the samples are just a drum loop and a repeated phrase or something. I also hate how, at least in the mainstream, you can put so much personality into your work and we end up with maybe one or two real individuals every year and a bunch of carbon copies of the same tired trends all the time.
>>61739036
Try these hip hop albums instead.
>hiphop fans getting bootyblasted again
lol nice "genre"
>>61739084
is this all instrumental? album names pls?
to everyone saying rapping takes no skill:
if it's so easy, let's hear you spit some bars
Rap is to music
As
Fart jokes are to comedy
>>61735980
Racism honestly
>>61739127
*turntablism
Kid Koala - Your Moms Favourite DJ
DJ Flare & D-Styles - Pharoahs of Funk
DJ Craze & Klever - Scratch Nerds
Cut chemist - The Audiences Listening
Rob Swift - The Architecr
DJ Qbert - Wave Twisters
Fingerbangerz - Vi-R-uS
D-Styles - Phantazmagorea
DJ Shadow & Cut Chemist - The Hard Sell (Encore)
>>61739170
epic
>>61739188
Ooops, missed the yellow one
Ricci Rucker & Mike Boo - Sketchbook, An Introduction to Scratch Music
It might be an art form (?) But, it is NOT music!
Rap might be considered poetry. But, at least according to the definition, and my lifetime of playing melodies, it is not music. Main reason? There is no melody (or quality!)
I am so disappointed that our young people are being taken to a lower level by this.. Stuff. Nice language! So demeaning to women! Teaching people to be ... Criminals!
My thoughts.. Rap is Crap!
I have never seen a thread on /mu/ for any other genre where someone has asked ''waaah, why don't you like my favorite genre''.
>>61739071
>I also hate how, at least in the mainstream, you can put so much personality into your work and we end up with maybe one or two real individuals every year and a bunch of carbon copies of the same tired trends all the time
Sounds almost like... every other music genre
>>61735980
They care about genres more than what they are listening to.
>>61739260
that makes no sense
>>61739235
it's not about liking it, it's about people shitting on hip hop while knowing little to nothing about it
no other genre is this accepted practice
if someone said "metal is shit" after hearing korn or disturbed on the radio in the car they'd be laughed out of the room
>>61739267
People write off genres because "All I hear is this or that" on pop radio, while they don't actively explore the genre for themselves.
The rappers who only sing about how much money they make and all the ugly hoes they fuck are trash
>>61739336
>no other genre is this accepted practice
Metal has had this since 2007 when the indie fans arrived on /mu/
>its because you didn't listen to X
fuck off, 99% of the hate is because of people listening to what rap fans on this board call the GOAT albums, lame, false excuse
>>61739368
There's bad artists in any genre.
>>61739381
tell me which albums you've listened to and why you didn't like them
>>61739403
Why do you care? I don't like rap. Get over it.
>>61739396
I read it. What's your point?
>>61739419
you didn't listen to those albums did you
>>61739428
>>61739442
and here you are, proving the point.
Just accept not everyone likes rap. Come up with all the memes and buzzwords, lame excuses and anything else you like, its not objectively good, move on, holy shit.
>>61739218
Is this copypasta of a YouTube comment or something?
I don't want to listen to some retarded cunt endlessly bragging about how much of a disgusting piece of shit he is, especially when he's dressed as a clown and waving his hands around like a spastic.
I've played in punk, hip-hop, rock, funk, and jazz bands.
One issue that may feed this misconception is that because of how the music is made (focus on lyrics and meter along with sampling) many artists don't speak the same musical language as "typical" musicians. There are successful emcees and DJs who probably couldn't make a song in a certain key if you asked them.
But none of that matters because there is no rule that says music or musicians need to fully understand everything they are doing. A producer may not know that they are sampling an A minor arpeggio but it sounds good and it makes no difference to the listener.
Jimi Hendrix couldn't read music is his music worse than any of the throwaway albums with guys who could?
Hip-hop may or may not be simplistic (just like any other genre it varies song to song) but even if it were that doesn't matter. Simplicity and song writing actually go together pretty well. As an instrumentalist I've challenged myself and have listened to plenty of "musician's musicians." These are artists who make music that typically only other musicians can listen to because it is so technical and musically inaccessible for average listeners. Mass audiences demand simplicity, this is true in all genres. Underground music of every genre has more complex songs from better artists, I can't think of a single genre where more popular stuff is more musically advanced than the underground (occasionally an artist will break through and listeners will catch up so they don't have to dumb their work down: think Beastie Boys, El-P/Run the Jewels, Beck, Tool, Prince, Radiohead).
Anyway, my theory is people talk trash because they're more than a little bit dumb and just a little bit racist. I suspect they are the same people who can sit at a computer and call a pro football player lazy. You have to be utterly clueless and musically illiterate to say either metal or hip-hop doesn't have melody (it just isn't in the vocals...).
>>61739403
>list rap albums you think are bad
>"those suck, you didn't listen to any these albums that are actually great
>list rap albums you think are good
>"you dont know anything"
>list reasons why I dont like them
>*you resort to some personal attack*
Personally I just got bored of the genre a while back, even the "good" stuff. The bad stuff is really annoying tbH.
>>61735980
Accept the fact that people don't like it and don't wanna hear it.
People say the same shit about other genres. Get over it!
Most rap fans are nerdy hipsters, wiggers, and insecure blacks.
They need to pull the tampons out of their asses, and put their big boy panties on.
>>61739542
>people listening to what rap fans on this board call the GOAT albums
But you didn't listen to them. Do you just take /mu/'s opinion as your own?
>>61736075
>Objectively, the ideas of melody and harmony are discarded.
>I've literally never listened to hip hop before
I know this is b8 but I just feel so trigger
>>61736033
ouch
>>61736290
>what is addressing a common opinion without assuming the person holds that opinion
Do you know what a strawman is?
>>61736305
They keep bitching about it because you guys speak objectively about it, when rap is objectively good. Great, even. If you guys don't like it, that's absolutely fine. If you want to shit on raptards and rap in general, go ahead. But saying its bad is annoying as shit, and I don't even like rap that much
>>61736298
>It could also be so because most rap lyrics are empty of significant content, be it because you're bragging about your material wealth or your sexual prowess, rapping about how good you rap, or other such nonsense.
>rock has the same thing
