>Initial release in March 2015
THIS IS AOTY! BETTER THAN GKMC. OH SHIT 9.3 BY P4K. THOSE FUCKING BASTARDS PANNED IT FUCK THOSE WHITE SHIT HEADS!!!
>Now that its popular in the zeitgeist
TPAB IS AOTY AND ALRIGHT IS SOTY BY THOSE FUCKING KEKS. NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER FUCK THOSE FUCKING SWJ NIGGER LOVERS MEGHAN GARVEY OOGA BOOGA KILL WHITEY BIG BLACK COCK PRESERVE WHITE INDIE MUSIC!!!
What happened, /mu/?
The hate and love have been consistent since release.
That being said, give me 3 legitimate musical flaws in the record.
That's MUSICAL flaws, not political bullshit.
>>61042819
i fucking cant it's GOAT
>>61042819
1. having 2 interludes is stupid
2. "remember you was conflicted" poem is also stupid and being repeated makes it worse
3. too long
that was easy
>>61043392
>having 2 interludes is stupid
That may just be the stupidest argument I have ever read.
>>61042819
the tupac interview is a painful cringefest
it takes itself way too seriously, the poem stuck in between half the tracks are forced as fuck
the album has no subtlety; it takes it's message and spoonfeeds it to the listener, as if they're incapable of deciphering it themselves.
bonus: it brings nothing new to the table, yet it is praised as one of the greatest albums of all time (lol) and is heralded for it's political "relevancy" and message it carries rather than the music itself. oh yeah and the corny hooks
>>61043392
First isn't a flaw, others aren't musical faggot.
>>61043824
No musical flaws listed.
>>61043392
> having 2 interludes is stupid
Those interludes were done well, and brought forward the theme of the album pretty well lyrically and structurally.
>"remember you was conflicted" poem is also stupid and being repeated makes it worse
I can give you that he repeated it too much at the end of each song, but once again it really carried the overarching concept and story well. The songs had a good mix of starting either at the beggining or end of each song, and he introduced more of the poem gradually with each song. While it's done really well thematically I hate how he kind of shoves the message in your ear with that 2nd poem at the end of Mortal Man after the interview with Tupac. I would've like more room for interpretation. But the end of the album just spells all of it out for you.
>Too long
Nigga really?
This and the Garden of Delete album are really fucking good, it's been a cool year.
>>61043878
how are those not musical flaws?
are lyrics not part of the music?
>>61043878
>corny hooks
>>61043926
Garden of Delete, albeit technically impressive, was corny as fuck. Shame as everything else Daniel's done has been great.
>>61043926
>Nigga really?
Yes. He could cut out like 4 songs and get the same message across.
>>61042819
1. Annoying voice
2. Clichê boring jazz
3 Cringe appellative Tupac poem/Interview
>>61043935
Which one on TPAB
Asap Rocky and Hopsin had waaaay cornier hooks this year.
>Yeeeah shake that assss girrririrrl, make that coochie wet
>Every hook since RAW, especially the singing ones. OH FUCKING GOD the hook on ill mind 6. I just remember that shit.
>>61043824
>cringefest as a criticism
how are the hooks "corny"? can you expand on that? also several people miss the point of the album, quite a few have on /mu/, even - it's not as obvious as you imply. but even if it were it seems like kendrick was trying to get his message across to as many people as possible
>>61043978
I can admit it was corny too, but still beautiful, I love it.
"this dick aint free"
"everything gonna be alright"
>>61044075
>Shit don't change until you get up and wash yo' ass, nigga
>boo boo
>>61044052
I agree with everything but the jazz. The rapping was shit, the beats were great.
"boo boo"
"doo doo"
"kekoo kekoo"
>>61044101
this, and the people that say it's the greatest thing ever (atleast on /mu/) never say why it is, they just expect you to agree, else you're a racist, contrarian, or just don't get it.
>>61044069
>Asap Rocky and Hopsin had waaaay cornier hooks this year.
>goalposting moving
Also not >>61043824 and I love the album, but I'd agree with >>61044124.
>>61044052
>>61044118
>>61044136
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgHNtzxO0y8
>talking to somebody about this album
>say that i dont really like it because i dont like rap
>oh it wasnt meant for you anyway!
the worst part is that the person that said this doesnt even like it and she considers it her favorite album of 2015 because of its message
Kendrick Lamar fans are a joke.
>>61044052
>Annoying voice
Not inherent to the album, you just don't like his voice
>Clichê boring jazz
Legitimate critcism
>Cringe appellative Tupac poem/interview
That's more stylistic than musical
Why does everyone hate the poem that much btw? He found an unheard interview and incorporated into the album because he thought it fit. What's so offensive about it?
I liked the album the first and the second time I listened to it. I just never felt like listening to it again, I think shit doesn't have any replay value personally and it's boring.
"ghost of Nelson Mandela"
"i am the new Martin Luther King, race war aaaargh"
"12 Years a Slave" The album
"Tupac Posthumous studio albums
The Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory (1996)
R U Still Down? (Remember Me) (1997)
Until the End of Time (2001)
Better Dayz (2002)
Loyal to the Game (2004)
Pac's Life (2006)
To Pimp A Butterfly (2015)"
"Rapper-activist"
>>61044181
That sounds like a fan of any artist ever
Literally 0 replay value.
Literally polically issue.
>>61042788
/mu/ isn't one fucking entity. Conflicting opinions can be expressed on the board without any inconsistency being present
tpab is cool.
>>61042819
TPAB is such stridently political music that there's a lot of blurry ground there. Criticism of the politics could easily be incorporated into a criticism of the album's broader thematic content. Anyway:
1. The influence from jazz and soul is really half-assed. Instead of being a roadmap of black musical history, the album ends up being a pop-rap album with series of superficially incorporated ideas from entry-level black musicians.
2. The choruses are almost always out of place and awkward.
3. There's a lot of filler, and individual tracks are often too short.
>>61044181
>>say that i dont really like it because i dont like rap
>>oh it wasnt meant for you anyway!
What? She's not wrong. Your main reason for not like a hip hop album is because you don't like hip hop. That is literally what "it wasnt meant for you" means.
>>61044264
There's no filler whatsoever, what songs are you talking about?
>>61044285
she was referring to race, anon
>>61044305
Oh, well in that case, yeah she's an idiot.
>>61042819
To me, TPAB is an 8/10. I like it. I really do. But I think its inferior to GKMC and I felt that way since around May, after I had a lot of time to digest.
1. Thematically, it is not as much of a tight, well-coordinated package as GKMC. GKMC, from one song to the next, carefully moves from taking a look at one aspect of Compton's influence on Kendrick to the next, starting from how Sherane affects his behavior, to his friends, to the gangs, to the police, etc. It's very meticulous and clean-cut in its organization. The skits connected the whole album together in a non-awkward way. The way the tape cuts off and you hear it "rewinding" back to the start of the album was a cool touch. You don't get this near-autistic cleanliness with TPAB. TPAB meanders from one subject to the another, somewhat unrelated one in order to make a stupid poem work, a poem I didn't particularly care for much.
2. It doesn't reach the emotional climax of GKMC. There is nothing on TPAB that makes me give a shit as much as Sing About Me. Not King Kunta, not Blacker the Berry, not How Much A Dollar Cost. That's a negative for a hip-hop album that's lauded as different.
3. TPAB is much more hit-or-miss than GKMC. GKMC's opener was miles more captivating than Wesley's Theory (which was fun, don't get me wrong). From there, GKMC goes from one solid song to the next, with the only exception being Poetic Justice. Yes, I like Real, and I know I'm in the minority on that. TPAB on the other hand gets weird with songs like Institutionalized, These Walls (a song that's a lot like J Cole's Wet Dreamz: when I heard it the first time, I was good with it, but then I realized there is no point in listening again since I already know the story), Hood Politics, and Complexion.
>>61044290
>King Kunta
>Wesley's Theory
>Either one of the interludes
>The big fat interview at the end
could all easily be cut, and nothing of value would be lost
that's just off the top of my head.
>>61044350
>Wesley's Theory
What the fuck are you on. The interview at the end doesn't even fit the definition of filler in any imaginable way.
>>61044305
Okay and?
Either way I'd tell her "Oh okay then"
Here's some actual criticism, you juvenile fuckheads:
Kendrick reads a poem at the end of every single song. This is a musical choice because it is part of every single fucking song. This becomes overbearing after the first listen.
The poem, in itself, reads like a middle-class white high schooler going up in his AP Literature class and giving a presentation on 'race'. I honestly cannot believe people think it was a good decision to spam the poem in the album and have Kendrick read it like he was at show-n-tell.
Songs such as King Kunta, Alright, and The Blacker The Berry outshine the rest.
The metaphors, oh my lord. Lucy is a metaphor for Lucifer, stop the fucking presses.
The album isn't particularly innovative.
The blending of jazz, funk, and neo-soul has been a cliche of progressive-leaning hip-hop since the 90s. Common, Q-Tip, The Roots; each fell victim to the same plague of prizing atmosphere and abstraction over tight songwriting.
He’s excessively complicating sub-genres that worked before — songs that felt vital because of their simplicity and directness. And for an artist who has staked his claim to the throne as the best rapper alive, Kendrick spends a curious amount of time noodling around with half-baked harmonies.
Filling an album with timely ideas and righteous fury isn’t enough when the songwriting is weak. Kendrick’s shielded himself from criticism under the cover of “experimentation” and ambition.
>>61044349
Oh and as for why I don't think it should AOTY... I like Carrie and Lowell more, but that's just me.
>>61044349
>It doesn't reach the emotional climax of GKMC. There is nothing on TPAB that makes me give a shit as much as Sing About Me. Not King Kunta, not Blacker the Berry, not How Much A Dollar Cost. That's a negative for a hip-hop album that's lauded as different.
Because you're not black. Complexion and the end of i are real heart tuggers if you've experienced what he's talking about. Also just because there's nothing as overtly emotional as Sing About Me. I feel emotion all throughout this album just from the composition.
>>61044506
And the Tupac interview.
If any other rapper pulled that out at the end of an album, they would be crucified. But this is Kendrick, so people praise it as emotional and 'insightful.'
This is far from a bad album, but it is not an amazing album.
You can take my opinions and consider them, or you can call me racist or try and pass them off like every other lover of this album.
It's your choice, folks.
>>61044489
>"Hey Darius, do you like this piece by Shostakovich?"
>"Naw that shit's wack"
>"Oh it wasn't meant for you anyway!"
>>61044506
>Songs such as King Kunta, Alright, and The Blacker The Berry outshine the rest.
Such a corny opinion. Those are far from the best songs on the album.
>>61044543
That's fair. I'm not white, but I'm not black either, so maybe you're right that I would care a bit more about those songs. Complexion is especially foreign to me because I've never experienced the light skin/dark skin beauty standard issue.
>>61044603
way to only respond to the most superficial of his claims
>>61044506
>Here's some actual criticism
I'm waiting
>>61044649
I'm not the dignitary of this thread weirdo, I just saw one thing that caught my eye. But the album not being innovative isn't a criticism either.
>>61042788
2/10 horribly produced garbage.
if you like this album you have no idea what good music sounds like.
His albums are analogous to Oscar bait films in the sense that they deal with weighty subject matter in an overly serious way, have very straightfoward narratives, beat you over the head with their lessons and themes, and bring nothing new to the table from a visual or musical standpoint.
Its all very obvious and basic and presents itself as far more important than it is.
>>61044757
But does the music sound good?
>>61042788
How about this.
Music is subjective.
>>61044754
>if you like this album you have no idea what good music sounds like.
Please humour us.
>>61044867
Uh, no. All it is is Kendrick parroting back all his influences, but there’s no synthesis.
He’s excessively complicating sub-genres that worked before — songs that felt vital because of their simplicity and directness.
And for an artist who has staked his claim to the throne as the best rapper alive, Kendrick spends a curious amount of time noodling around with half-baked harmonies. For all the genre-liquefying freakouts of Aquemini, Andre and Big Boi’s message was built into searing raps and coherent narratives.
The closest thing to a lucid narrative on To Pimp a Butterfly is a conversation with a homeless guy who turns out to be Jesus.
The sequencing kills momentum. This dick might be costly, but the “Cab Calloway goes to the Lyricist Lounge” razzmatazz ramrods the natural pacing. The intro to “For Sale” opens like a college acapella crew who just learned what G-Funk was. Then for no reason at all, Kendrick deploys Nas’ “Who Killed It“ voice. At other times, it sounds like he’s been trapped in coach on a Delta flight listening to Eminem. By employing all these thinly-sketched characters, he obscures the most powerful parts of his best work–his own thoughts, his own voice.
Filling an album with timely ideas and righteous fury isn’t enough when the songwriting is weak. Kendrick’s shielded himself from criticism under the cover of “experimentation” and ambition. If you don’t “get it,” there’s an easy refuge in saying the album is avant-garde even if that’s not entirely true. Ultimately, it has more in common with the meandering songwriting of Nas’ Untitled or Lupe after he turned into Whoopi Goldberg, than a socially conscious masterpiece like Marvin Gaye’s What’s Goin’ On. Big ideas don’t excuse flawed songwriting. Kendrick went bigger, but he didn’t go deeper. Complexity doesn’t absolve you from providing answers.
2/10
>>61043978
how the fuck is corny a real criticism? please don't use shitty hiphop buzzwords when talking about other genres
>>61044983
trite, banal, or mawkishly sentimental
>>61045015
Elaborate
>>61043824
>>61044264
>>61044349
>>61044506
>>61044554
All of these, and GKMC is one of my favorite albums ever and has made me cry more than once. TPAB was quite a disappointment, especially with the hype.
>>61045028
niga idk i just googled the word corny. I'm not the guy you were originally replying to lol
>>61045035
>has made me cry more than once.
HAHAHAHAHA NIGGA WHAT AR EYOU, 12?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAAGAHAH
>>61045069
>He never got emotional over GKMC
I bet you kiss girls on the lips, faggot.
Can we talk about the politics? Why is it that black people murder each other thousands of times every year, but one white cop does it in a POSSIBLE case of excessive force and the entire nation protests? Why do black lives only matter when white people take them?
Killing black people is like saying the N-word. They do it all the time, but get really mad when white people do it.
>>61044945
I was actually expecting a dump of what "good music" was, but thanks for the substance.
>>61045101
>one
Also, the media.
>>61045101
I think you know why. Black people haven't forgiven as easily as white people want to forget.
>>61045069
>not crying at "and if I die before your album drop I hope *bang bang bang*"
>not crying at "I'll never fade away I'll never fade away I know my fate *fade out*"
>not crying at the mother's phone call at the end
>>61045150
Shouldn't they start by forgiving themselves for the literal thousands of homicides they commit on their own race first? Hypocrites.
>>61045162
>>61045086
Yea, mhm. Definitely haven't cried over those lyrics. If you're wondering why it's because I'm not a sheltered teen who gets emotional while his parents don't show any affection towards him as his girlfriend fucks other guys.
Grow the fuck up kid.
post songs from 2015 that are better than Alright, the #1 song of 2015
i'll start
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LoeQ2WF3VI
>>61045211
>If you're wondering why it's because I'm not a sheltered teen who gets emotional while his parents don't show any affection towards him as his girlfriend fucks other guys.
Joke's on you buddy, I've never had a girlfriend. Bet your 'kek' comment isn't that clever now huh?
>>61045238
>Joke's
Oh god why did I do that.
>>61045238
Nah I guess not. But hey at least I don't cry over fucking rap lyrics.
>>61045258
Joke's = Joke is.
It's right.
>>61042788
I still like it
>>61045183
A lot of them are angry about both. Black on black violence is ultimately a result of their treatment throughout the history of this country. Black people can't change until the system does.
>>61045329
>Black on black violence is ultimately a result of their treatment throughout the history of this country.
You can't possibly believe this.
>>61045350
What do you think it is? Shit quality of life, then tossed into shit communities with other angry black people who start to tear each other down.
IMO the albums 8/10, only real flaws are all of Mortal Man (really a shit track tbqh and the interview is terrible) and the poem being constantly repeated. But whatever, he took a chance and some of it didn't work, most of the album is still great, and the politics aren't THAT hamfisted, there's some levels to it. Literary references, ironic critique, etc.
The main thing it suffers from is too much hype and a lot of blind praise
>>61045421
Subtract that score by 7 and it's pretty accurate
>>61045421
>The main thing it suffers from is too much hype and a lot of blind praise
How can an album suffer from something that has nothing to do with the music? And how is Mortal Man shit, that production is marvelous.
>>61045410
A toxic culture that tells them that these things are normal and okay.
I suppose you could blame whitey for all of this, if you admit that black people are 100% incapable of proactivity and doing anything about their problems.
>>61045487
I'm saying the reason it being good is even controversial to the point where it causes this much shitposting is that it was so hyped up, not that the hype actually detracts from the music.
>>61045069
>he never got emotional over music
Lel faggot.
>>61045498
Who do you think profits off that "culture"? It's created, marketed, and sold, by white people, for white people (a much larger sales demographic than black people in the US), because the image of edgy dangerous black people makes a lot of money.
Representations of black culture in the media have painfully little to do with reality, with a few exceptions that are often misunderstood. Young black people are often seduced by the over the top, romanticized characters based loosely on themselves, and that justifies a lifestyle they were already inclined towards by being overwhelmingly a poor people with a recently shitty history.
>>61045498
>if you admit that black people are 100% incapable of proactivity and doing anything about their problems.
What is the civil rights movement? What is the time of peace in between the end of the civil war and when the government created terrorist orginizations just to fuck with them? For about 100 years (not including slavery) the government actively made life shit for them and they persevered and fought for their rights. The damage was done though.
>>61045598
For the record, I am not one of these fags who goes "Das racist" at everything, and am not holding white people as a monolith responsible for anything. I'm only saying there are specific social reasons why blacks in the US are inclined towards violence.
>>61043981
what four songs could have been cut out?
You aint gotta lie is the only one.
>>61045598
>>61045498
The Youth in all forms are highly influenced by media. HIGHLY and all you see on media is the drama, the bad, the ugly.
>>61045598
>black people are not responsible for their actions
>it is the media's fault that thousands of blacks murder thousands of other blacks each year
well that settles that
>>61045277
>Nah I guess not. But hey at least I don't cry over fucking rap lyrics.
I guess it's easy to not get emotional about art when you have gone through life unscathed.
Art has the power to force tears out of people if they can relate to the emotional aspects of the song.
Most of the times I've been emotional to music have been the instrumentals.
>god speed
>takemitsu's requiem for strings
>last donut of the night
>turn soonest to sea
>extra kings
>poisonville kids no win
for godspeed it's the combination of the vocal sample in the instrumental, topic about not wanting to let your family down and/or hurt them indirectly due to your irresponsiblity, and mac's emotional delivery.
For poison ville kids no win it's the complete lack of hopeless throughout the song in el-p's voice and lyrics combined with the stark melancholy of the beat. It choked me up, but he finally showed emotion in his final lyric and that really got me.
>you're in the same barrel all us other crabs are caught
And if I have to live, you have to live; whether you like this shit or not
It also forced a new perspective on me.
Getting emotional to lyrics can be extremely cathartic.
>>61046029
I mean trying to justify your lack of mental fortitude is pretty cute.
Dress it up however you want. You're a bitch.
>>61044210
This. I really liked it the first couple listens but haven't returned to it since May. Once you grasp the overall message of the album, it's kinda boring.
>>61045410
>implying all black people are ghetto hood rats
>implying theyre all useless and lack ambition to better themselves
stop romanticizing and patronizing that shit
its up to the individual to do something with their lives not bitch about muh reparations
>>61042819
"the fake crying on u"
"the lack of a good hook or a fresh sentiment on the second half of the record"
"kendrick's disgusting abuse of Tupac as a mouthpiece and his holier-than-thou attitude"
>>61047068
Bitch the other person was doing that not me. Did you even read the conversation retard?
>>61044489
>"Oh okay then"
LITERAL
C U C K
BETA MALE
>>61045101
>Black person kills Black person
Personal problems, a robbery, whatever.
>White cop kills Black kid
There must be hate behind the killing, it's an attack on the entire community.
Not saying that the victims of thise shootings are innocent or guilty, just saying it how it is that Black people view these issues.
This isn't hard to answer btw, just try thinking about it. Honestly such a stupid question, and it's made so often
>>61044506
>“experimentation”
i hate that people use this to describe TPAB, there is nothing experimental about this album.
>inb4 MUH POEM
>>61044670
he gave you plenty, you just disagree with his opinion so you refuse to recognize it.
>second song is an interlude
>>61047491
> just try thinking about it. Honestly such a stupid question, and it's made so often
are you black?
>>61042819
1. uninspired jazz
2. standard beats
3. awkward pacing
>>61045211
>Grow the fuck up kid.
The projection from this sentence whenever someone says it is always classic
>>61048369
What's an example of inspired jazz? Within hip hop preferably
>>61043392
The second two are okay arguments, but the first one is fucking awful
Darkie here. My favorite song is Momma. It's the most pivotal narrative turning point and it makes me long for Africa. If that song doesn't make you feel jubilation, you don't fully understand the album.
>>61042819
1. Too much filler, should have about 10 minutes shaved off.
2. Aimless and pointless overuse of instrumentation on some tracks. Lel so jazzy m I rite????
3. Kendrick's voice is just plain fatiguing, he doesn't give many breaks for the listener. He's basically got a lot to say with only a handful of points to make
I'll go with p4k on this one because it's not better than GKMC
>>61048407
Not him but jazz sucks and is inherently uninspired imo. Genre literally just spawned from nightly wank fests at bars
Literally "DUDE WHITE PEOPLE STINK LMAO" the album
>>61044506
>The metaphors, oh my lord. Lucy is a metaphor for Lucifer, stop the fucking presses.
lern hew to English Literature
Metaphor: a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.
"lucy' isn't a metaphor, he's talking literally about satan, it's a truncation of Lucifer
I agree with you though, it is stupid
>>61048407
There is none within hip-hop. Once Jazz get's reappropriated and/or composed into beats it loses the inspiration of the improv and soloing of the artists. At that point it stops being jazz and becomes soulless, noodly backround noise,
>>61049801
honestly, how on earth do you even get to a point of ignorance where this is your opinion? By not listening to the album and just looking at the cover? How?
>>61043392
lmao that was so nontechnical I hope you haven't taken any technical discourse classes
>>61050159
>a point of ignorance where this is your opinion?
To be honest bro, I'm pretty drunk and just felt like trolling. That's how
I actually really like the album
