Drummers?
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
I started out playing bass guitar, then guitar in a band as one of the main songwriters, then formally studied music with upright bass as my principle instrument and trombone as my second. I spent 10 years approx in 5 different bands playing whatever was needed at the time, usually upright bass, samples and keyboards, bit of guitar, banjo, ukulele, trombone with pedals. Very much a supportive part of any ensemble, adding layers, interest, or just holding down the bass.
Recently after a short break I decided I wanted to get back into music again, but I felt like everything was automatic, nothing creative, just producing what was asked for from quite often uncreative genre based musicians who were looking to recreate something they were familiar with rather than push any boundaries.
So I start putting together my own ensemble and I wind up played drums. I've played drums when needed, usually very simply for personal recording projects and other work, but over the last 6 months or so it was has been a bit of an obsession and I practice roughly two hours a day, my kit is growing and growing.
My issue I suppose is I feel the conflict between simply being a supporting member of a group and being an almost soloist. Pretty much most of the music I like has the drummer laying down something solid and the interest comes from elsewhere, but when I sit on that throne I play like a fucking maniac.
Any other drummers on here or musicians in general get that vibe or have an opinion? I guess it is the typical "you aren't a 'proper' musician unless you can play a few hours of standards without missing a beat or breaking a sweat" vs the desire to push "an avant-garde direction with isn't too prog".
None of the rest of the band members seem to mind 2 hour long songs consisting of continual left hand snare rolls syncopated with a breakbeat kick and various jazz ride patterns and tom fills thrown over the top of it building to the point of collapse. Audiences? Maybe not so much.
tldr
Also very aware how niche live music in general, especially live acoustic drums are these days. Also torn by a feeling that if I can't say it with a snare, kick and hihat I'm missing out on something here.
Music at the moment is like psychedelic surf shoe gaze, endless build and release and then free improvised jazz sections. Sentient pedal boards, drones on interesting sounds and samples.
Thing is though, if I had to give an example of the kind of drumming that puts a smile on my face it is definitely something like The Flaming Lips or even Zappa.
>>60731614
Have you listened to King Crimson? Michael Giles is an incredible drummer. He often plays his own wierd lines, like some kind of rythmic counterpoint to the other band members. Tight as hell too.
not really. I don't get a lot of what you're on about as I don't have any playing with people experience. The majority of my life has been alone, or a fair chunk being tortured, then really badly mentally ill.
I get the whole standards thing, but .... it's going to take my life to learn my own music, so if I'm not playing for anyone but myself, why learn a cover? Doesn't make sense.
As for going crazy, I guess it's writing a structure that's "song" but everyone can play around with.
A good drummer can make even the simplest beat sound amazing. Great drums are about groove and texture, not complexity, complexity is just a means to an end. You have to first be great at playing fairly simple beats, then you expand upon that and get more experimental. You shouldn't start by trying to make something avant-garde because unless you really understand what makes good drums, it's going to sound like complete shit.
Here's an example of someone who knows his craft very intimately:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfPTBGLkbzM
It's highly complex but still sounds great.
Also you have to adapt to the setting you're playing in. Maybe a 4-man rock band isn't the best place to flaunt your epic drumming skillz. Maybe start a two-man improvisational jazz-group where your drumming can take a bigger part of the sound without pushing out other instruments?
>>60731756
It isn't so much about learning a cover because you want to play that cover, but because some of the more iconic songs contain beats/fills/patterns and phrases which make up an easier musical vocabulary when it comes to communicating with others. There is also a certain amount of 'you've got to be able to at least play xyz in order to qualify as an actual seasoned musician'.
Bit like friends who studied fine art, but couldn't draw a fucking circle unaided let alone a bowel of fruit.
there's nothing cooler than that guy, he carried it all in his suitcase
>>60731810
I switch off a bit because I'm like "well it's like this int it?"
>>60731614
Play jazz tbhdesu
>Any other drummers on here or musicians in general get that vibe or have an opinion?
Yeah
Spent a lot of time recently to work on nuances & playing softly for that reason
>>60731650
>Also torn by a feeling that if I can't say it with a snare, kick and hihat I'm missing out on something here.
That's a lie propaged by people who wanted their drummer to shut up
Larks tongues in aspic is the ultimate counter-argument to this
>>60731614
When you play, actively think about the purpose of the part you're playing.
Is everything you're playing placed there because it definitely complements the song and needs to be there, or is it there because "hey guys check out what I can do!"?
>>60731937
>Larks tongues in aspic
Really enjoyed, thanks.
>>60731780
Also some of this dudes stuff playing with others. Right up my street.
>>60732003
For me I keep flipping it round in my head and thinking, what is the purpose of playing a place holder beat? Unless someone is actively playing a solo I might keep it going for a while, but only because the space it leaves is valuable for what comes next which is a general evolving of the part of every musician. Intensity and complexity builds, builds until you are pretty much playing a series of breaks which can't get any more complex and then phhhhhhhewwww release into a nice jazz clip.
I'm talking things like at the end of each phrase introducing a ghost note snare roll, a snare roll which becomes punctuated with some spash cymbal, accents which move around the beat depending on what the other music is doing, accents which add in harder snare hits and rimshots, light rolls around the rim of the drum with off beat kicks as a break beat which takes it into a direction where each person begins to play off of the accents. At which point it is barely a beat and more a series of fills.
>>60732104
It doesn't have to be a place holder beat, accents and ghost notes are just dandy. But if you're filling every other measure and the crowd loses the headbob, it's too much.
what if someone said "I cn't count 16 bars of this, can you let me know, you keep the time don't you? fuck off"
that's acceptable isn't it?
>>60732294
I know that conventionally drummers 'keep' the time, but each individual musician is responsible for holding individual time and reacting appropriately.
You can't always just heap it upon the drummer otherwise you'd never have any dynamically playing ahead or behind the beat, any syncopated breaks, drops or fills or any 'grooving' around with the bassist, those little points of interest which keep a song interesting.
Say I decide to play a fill built upon triplets which eventually resolves back out. I should be able to do so for a few bars without the rest of the group responding by switching into 3/4.
16 bars? At what? 1 bar of 64th notes or what?
so
Fmaj7#5 / E- (Cmaj B-) / E-6
>>60732422
>esponsible for holding individual time and reacting appropriately.
yeah as I guessed, fuck it just play
>>60732294
No, unless you're going full wank while it's not even your solo
Or i misunderstood your sentence
>>60732445
well it's the thing
"you MUST know where you are in the sheet music in your head, alone"
but I can't
then I listen to Bill and Jim, no way! they're playing, fucking counting the fucking beats.
eh?
like here's the chords and I'll keep their rythem, "human blob" sings, you do your 'drum' and when I play over it, wil, you've got to bring me back becasue I can't count it in my head unless you want a wrote melody
which is borring
>>60732427
https://youtu.be/zTpf0ZCmHw8
>>60731780
I feel like the video you posted completely discounts everything you said. I'm watching the guys other videos, and he has no tachnique, and you can ABSOLUTELY hear it. As for the one in your post, no, it doesn't sound good, it literally doesn't sound like anything. If you took away the visuals, you'd be completely 100% lost, I guarantee it.
>>60733696
> completely 100% lost
> not understanding the concepts of metrical ambiguity and meterless improvisation
> discrediting an obviously gifted player because muh 4/4
Plebs like you should not be allowed on this board. Get the fuck out of here and learn some goddamned jazz you mongoloid.
>>60733696
>no technique
I bet you don't even know what rudiments are
>>60733696
>it literally doesn't sound like anything
>no tachnique
you never go full retard
if i could understand what the fuc OP was on about i would add to the discussion, but for now i'll just add that i enjoy playing drums, i spend 2-6 hours 5 or 6 days a week playing, mostly just fucking around. i'm in a band too, i tend to underplay with them, to keep myself from losing what little bit of ability to play reasonable lines i actually have
and you haven't got the words down, well what rythem is it?
shall I transcribe it for you?
x x x x
>>60733805
>>60733970
>>60734004
You can literally watch him and see that it's bullshit. There are no rudiments, he just uses double strokes and hits stuff quick with no forethought, and there's no power behind his strokes whatsoever, you're all talking out of your ass. There's a difference between playing jazz and spewing incoherent bullshit from your limbs. I guarantee that none of you know what you're talking about. Prove me fucking wrong.
test
>>60736392
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n3ZQ2K72kVY
This is real creative, interesting drumming. You can hear everything he's doing, and he's totally unconventional and it all sounds great. So don't even come at me with this "listen to jazz" shit, you fucking faggot.
Where can I find similar thundering war drum marches/chants or even just sound effects to the ones in the booming throughout this vid?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCm19G0YmmM
Been searching for a long time, just looking for some powerful booming drums and nothing really fancy
Youtube seems to have sound effect for everything but these
if you are interested in jazz drumming, i recommend checking out bill bruford, he plays a lot of rock in his earlier years, but his earthworks project is really good
what's a pick up neat?
Do I need to learn drums as well? merciless. Where?
>>60732586
It sounds like you're talking about taking a solo in time and coming out of it at after an appropriate length, and the only real method I know for this is to always be kind of singing the melody in your head, or even humming it to yourself.
>>60737040
It's when I try to blow over a song, improvise AND count 16 bars AND know the chord I've landed up on.
"normally you would have a backing that aren't trying to murder you"
that's the thing, see I keep saying.
But, I was taught by people that told me "you have to know all of this" and it's a lot. My Dad managed it, I think it took about 7 years, no longer actually.
and then, I play over the backing track and it is very hard as I'm then playing to an anti-social degree.
Or, if you want to record your own backing , I can't record it properly.
It's like my personality, everything is either really good or die.
nothing works pleasantly
count my foot taps and be imaginative?
come on, if you're not copy pasta OP you know the solution.
>>60737040
>singing the melody in your head, or even humming it to yourself.
ok
>>60731614
Listen to some meal drumming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDhy9WGufgk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4Cro2yxRjw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjX2AzMVh_A
Or
It's
E-6 / F maj7 #5
Cmaj / B- / A- (Abmaj7 / Abm(maj))
how the fuck are people so bad at counting?
half of my band doesn't even know what a bar is it makes me really frustrated sometimes
three, lots of four
>>60736450
You're acting the exact same way as someone who listens to a free-jazz saxophonist and thinks "there's no technique, they're just fiddling around on the keys and blowing really hard!"
The drummer in the link you posted is good, no doubt, but we're talking about drummers who are a bit more experimental. But really, there's no point arguing because you have made up your mind that this isn't music, it's just noise and drums should follow a strict, coherent structure and anythong outside of your little box is made by people who don't know what they're doing.
Play to fit the song. Sometimes it'll be more boring than you want it to be, but there's nothing worse than someone fucking wanking on their instrument and leaving their other bandmates in the dust, excepting solos.
It really helps if you can actually feel the song. I have a huge amount of difficulty getting down some very simple songs because I just don't feel the melody or what have you. However, that's not a cue to play more, just to play differently.
A lot of really great drummers are overlooked because they don't show off, they just fit perfectly into the song.
btw, we don't discuss drumming/drums enough on /mu/
>>60737790
A- .....................................................uplifts
>>60740385
E-6 / Fmaj 7 #'5 *3
C11 /A-6/ F#m(maj)7
Does anyone know any examples of people using Anvils for percussion? I've heard of tuned anvils, but I've never heard them used before.
>>60731614
drummer here
it really depends on the music you are playing, in music where the other musicians have a rythm you can't really take off without fucking the song up, but when the other ones are layering shit without an implied rythm, or the groove is loose, the rythm is on you and you can do whatever the fuck you want
i dislike straightrythm+fills as a general rule doe, laziest shit ever
>>60738863
the point of experimental music is developing personal techniques for the instrument doe, so he is right even if you are too
>>60734004
What's wrong with 4/4?
>>60742907
It's pleb
>>60741359
https://youtu.be/jztCRbC2G-M
more compliacted,
mmmmm
>>60743320
So what it is a patrician time signature?
>>60744465
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzFAR6aN20g
yeah I know, 4/4 strumming is really boring
but if I'm going to compose something,
5 chord changes in one beat
or
>>60744465
changes in it
>>60744465
not having one
>>60744465
The ones Conlon Nancarrow uses in his player piano pieces.
