What criticisms can you make against this album?
>tfw you've listened to Judgement and Compulsion but not this one
>>60484843
it's not as good as compulsion
>>60484873
Well then post some criticisms of one of Compulsion.
>>60484843
Sometimes it feels like Out to Lunch v2.
I prefer Compulsion, but point of departure is still good.
I don't really like Joe Henderson.
Andrew Hill, Richard Davis and Eric Dolphy are good players though.
>>60484908
>Sometimes it feels like Out to Lunch v2.
Point of Departure was recorded several months before Out to Lunch.
>>60484905
P good record, I like the free but lethargic rhythms and fast drums. Sounds like Sun Ra at parts to be honest
Sorry for being a newbie at jazz
For jazz fans in this thread, a honest question:
>Do you find yourself remembering the notes and "movements" in jazz albums?
I mean, i'm starting to get into jazz, and apart from some Spirutual/Cool/Modal titles, I find albums in general (specially post-bop and hard bop albums) to be easily forgotten. Am I missing something? It probably requires several listenings, right? Don't bully
>>60485063
>It probably requires several listenings, right?
This. You're probably not really listening as closely a you want to be.
>>60485063
>Do you find yourself remembering the notes and "movements" in jazz albums?
Yes, even in free jazz, that's one of the best parts of listening to it.
>Am I missing something? It probably requires several listenings, right?
It probably requires some time until you get used to more Jazz,if you are of the Avant kind. at first I only liked Avant-Garde and Free, but then after nearly two years I started liking Hard Bop, Bebop, Cool, Post-Bop and various others too.
>>60484895
What keeps it from being as good as compulsion?
>>60485063
nah, at least for me. I always remember small particular moments I find particularly great or interesting, and the general "feel" to it.
For example the fucked up dissonant chord fanfare at the beginning of "Free Jazz" by Coleman, that shit makes me listen to the whole album in a trance.
>>60484908
What don't you like about Joe Henderson? Do you mean in general or just on this album?
It's been a while since I've listened to this but I enjoy him on a lot of the other things I've heard him on.
sloppy drumming
>>60485132
Do you think you listen to free jazz differently or understand it more after listening to more bebop and stuff or is that just a myth?
>>60485169
I don't like his composition or improvisation skills, his playing of other's composition are good until he gets to do his own thing.
>free jazz
>>60485262
>he thinks point of departure is free jazz
>>60485215
>is that just a myth?
I'd say it's true, not only Bebop, but all kinds of jazz before and after it.
When I first got into jazz I would only listen to the most popular albums, while I did like them, I didn't like them nearly as much as I do now. What I did was listen to jazz relases chronologically by record date since the early begginings of jazz, that way you can appreciate its innovation and influence.
The time I listen to Pithecanthropus Erectus by Charles Mingus again after listening to many jazz before it helped me appreciate it more than before, for example.
>>60484843
There's not a lot to criticize there. The compositions are pretty much perfect. Using three horns, especially the different woodwinds Dolphy plays gives the compositions a different dimension that not many had really explored yet. Sure you can say Freddie Hubbard might have been a better choice for trumpet but Kenny holds his own and pulls things back into the bop world a little more than the others. Apparently Hill tried not to listen to much jazz for a year leading up to this recording in an effort to develop a unique sound.
>>60484873
As Bird said, "Now's the Time"
>>60485063
It's kind of tough to answer. You know jazz is good when you want to re-listen to it often. But obviously the more you listen to something, the more specific details you will remember of it. It's better to listen deep than wide.
>>60485243
What don't you like about his improvisation?
How do I into free jazz mu?
They kind of lose me with the flutes.
"It took a long time until I finally got Point of Departure. I had to order it three times, because the first two shops couldn't deliver it for some reason. That's why the most famous Andrew Hill album is the last one I collected so far, even though I was most curious to listen to it for sure. Now that I have it, it seems it's taking a long time until I'm getting it once again. But that's no surprise at all, since it's like that with almost every splendid avantgarde jazz album around, and actually it's what I love those albums for, the challenge of crossing borders of comfort and long-term practised listening habits.
It's a kind of spiritual practise in my opinion, denying the ego's longing for catchiness and foreseeability. Listening to whatever feels comfortable and familiar is for wimps, challenging music is for yogis. In the beginning this practise might evoke some vigorous resistance, but once one manages to stop struggling, and start opening up to whatever musical weirdness touches one's mind, the reward is bigger than any listening pleasure one was able to experience before.
Having said that, I must admit that there are bigger challenges available than Point of Departure for sure, but for my part the balance between challenge and points of reference should be kept, in order to assure a basic fun in practise (because it's more effective and practicable to involve the ego in its own decomposition than to fight it fortrightly) and that's what makes albums like Point of Departure a real Point of Departure on a journey beyond your musical ego. If you think I was writing bullshit here, go on listening to power metal or indie rock."
lol. Post more terrible RYM reviews of jazz.
>>60484843
the rae sremmurd cover album was better
>>60486187
Wow I can smell the fedora
>>60486187
>>60486473
Jesus
It's extra funny when the album is actually good but they have no idea why
>>60486530
If it's more perfect than his favorite album, then why isn't it his favorite album?
>>60485745
Can you rec me some good latin jazz?
RYM review for Out to Lunch:
"If song titles were personal feelings:
1. Gives me flashbacks of Pink Panther.
2. Somehow too non-serious and small scaled for such a "legendary" jazz album. Piccolo jazz.
3. Right now it sounds a lot like my breakfast.
4. And now it sounds as if Nighthawks became a strip club.
5. Zappa's having breakfast there."
>>60486583
not the same guy, but I've found Descarga by Cachao y su Ritmo Caliente a pretty good listen
>>60485290
>he thinks there's an actual disctintion between avant-garde and free jazz
>>60485063
It takes longer than typical songs in other genres, but yes. You remember what you listen to most often, especially the main licks.
>>60486758
>>60486473
>>60486187
How about some where they don't like the album?
>>60486583
There's a lot of good Brazilian stuff that everybody knows about so besides that stuff-
Machito and Charlie Parker- The Latin Bird
Chucho Valdes- Jazz Bata
Eddie Palmieri- Sueño
Ray Barretto- Acid
Ralph Irizarry and Timbalaye- all their albums
Brian Lynch- ConClave 1 and 2
Yosvany Terry- Today's Opinion
>>60486772
also good. A bit more to the traditional Cuban side of things than jazz though.
>>60485063
Did you listen to Blakey - Moanin yet?
>>60484843
>What criticisms can you make against this album?
It's vastly inferior to almost any Western Art Music you could name.
>>60487055
Give an analysis on this album.
>>60487085
lol he hasn't heard it of course
>>60487055
How do you feel about Himdemith? Did you know Andrew Hill privately studied composition with Hindemith for a number of years?
>>60484843
It's one of my favorite jazz albums (if not my favorite), so there's little I can say against it
It's unpredictable without being gimmicky IMO. It just works.
>>60487254
What albums are unpredictable and also gimmicky?
>>60486926
Yes, senpai. He's not a good example of what I was trying to say. In other hand, pic related.
>>60487254
Nice new trip code senpai
>>60487282
Well, maybe I should rephrase that
It doesn't resort to abrupt transitions in dynamics and style simply for the sake of having abrupt transitions; you can never predict what'll happen next, but the album overall is still coherent and bears certain motifs that enhance the music as a whole
tl;dr: It doesn't rely on being unpredictable
:)
>>60484843
Never heard it. What's it like?
>>60487055
How so?
