Or do you believe they can still release good music when they're well past their "prime"
Take someone like david bowie for example, is there any real reason why he can't drop another ziggy? It just seems like he's missing something he used to have.
Or even someone a lot younger with a lot less prestige like eminem, why can't he drop another MMLP?
Why do they almost suddenly just lose their talent?
There is a big ageism problem in music and the entertainment business in general.
Paul mccranty is a legend and can still make great music and can fill a stadium but they aren't going to play his music on the radio and he isnt going to top the charts.
Of course older people can make good music but the jews want to jew teenagers out of their disposable income
How is his hair that good still
And I dunno, I think with age, everything becomes more difficult, and takes more energy. I'm sure there are exceptions of musicians creating their best work at an old age.
>>60452902
He is a higher life form than us, you'll just kill your self esteem if you sit their analyzing his talent and attributes.
>>60452902
>paul mccranty
73 and killing it
>>60452877
>you will never write one song as good as any David Bowie song
Why even live? ;w;
Guys like Gira or >>60452991 are very rare exceptions.
Vast majority of people have only so many things to say and do before it becomes nothing but their mundane everyday business.
>>60452877
I think when you're young you have to prove yourself to more effort is put into making something amazing. When you're David Bowie you literally have it all so that hunger is gone.
I honestly don't understand why the wealthy ever even leave their house. Kurt Cobain had the right idea when he wanted to take 2 years off to be a junkie
>>60453241
Rockist attitudes like these are why most highly-anticipated sophomore albums are duds whereas the great composers only got better and better as they aged.
yes, age has so many negative impacts there's no point in discussing it
>>60453259
I mean yeah of course, being a rockstar is about money and fame, not art
>>60453280
Yet another proof how badly designed humans are.
https://youtu.be/4-rF3tuLQEI?t=120
>>60453259
/thread
See the last (unfinished) works of Scriabin for further material related.
>>60453329
>the last (unfinished) works of Scriabin
You mean his meme pieces that were supposed to cause the Happening? I'd rather listen to Rimsky-Korsakov if I want to hear pre-Soviet Russian decadence. He could orchestrate.
Tom Waits
>>60453329
I understand that you agree with what he said but don't ever fucking "/thread" any of my threads ever again you pompous fucking swine.
It's an open discussion, not a pissing contest that can be won, who the fuck are you to decide when a thread ends?
Brian Wilson once said that artists run out of material at some point where they just dont have anything left to give
Bowie's still creative/talented though
meatloaf
>>60452877
who's the guy in the back?
is it OP?
>>60453379
best new meme?
>>60452877
Why do you think that the world has to continously amaze you? That says a lot about you and your childhood
Artists make art and the art is for the maker they don't have to make something the masses find perfect and it doesn't mean they lost their talent
>>60452877
its not because musicians get older its because music is a product of its time
It's because they're either out of creative ideas, not relevant anymore sonically or make rehashes of what they have done better in the past, but that's only a general rule not an objective fact.
I think it is a sex drive thing, when i got a gf i got progressively boring till the point of becoming a complete normie wageslave kuk.
Nowadays the price of gasoline and electricity excites me more than music and i used to build my own modular synths and shit like that just 3 years ago.
>>60452877
He could easily write another ziggy, he just doesn't want to; he's done with pop. He's on an art-rock binge atm by the looks of things, pretty well-earned. The Next Day was his best album since Scary Monsters over 30 years ago, especially including the bonus tracks.
And also heck, Suede's comeback has been one of the best I've ever witnessed, over a decade after the fall of Britpop and they're putting out some of the greatest material they've ever done. I think it depends entirely upon the individual and you are focusing on the examples where their recent output is weaker due to unintentional ageism.
tom waits keeps making solid albums mate
read somewhere that bowie tends to release a shit album and then one or two years later a good album. the next day didn't fly so good, so maybe this next one, is the one.
>>60452912
it's dyed and lacquered; he's a very vain man
>>60456107
That's not really true though is it?
I mean the only stuff from Bowie that really gets called "bad" is Tonight (which is mostly just forgotten about) / Never Let Me Down / Black Tie White Noise and possibly Hours and Reality for some. Mostly his main negative period was just the mid-to-late 80s.
>>60456211
Yeah but I mean he's got a head of hair to make a 20 year old envious. To say he did a ridiculous amount of cocaine, drank loads, and smoked constantly whilst eating very little in his younger days, he's aged very very well.
>>60456218
>black tie/white noise
>bad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU7aU71KWr8
do you even still having false, affected hope for the future during the opening years of the 90's?
They lose their hunger to create.
Not their ability to.
>>60452877
Trent Reznor is 50 and he's still pumping out good stuff. The secret to a successful career for older artists is experimentation and familiarity. Sound different but at the same time the same.
>>60456273
Oh I do love the title track, I can't deny, but everyone I've talked to considers it one of his glossiest, weakest albums
>>60456259
Rich people can afford hair transplants whenever they need them.
bowie could tour on his old shit and make a bunch of money.
All famous musicians can do that.
Once the mainstream stops caring for you you just tour and hope there are still some hardcore fans that still love you.
Another cliche is the whole older musicians doing a residency in las Vegas, vegas is were musicians go to die.
You play the same room every night to a bunch of random old people tourists who want to relive their youth.
The best things you can do as an older musician is collaborate with younger ones and maybe do cover songs johnny cash style.
A lot of musicians also get into acting or some other art form
>>60456495
his new stuff isnt reinventing the wheel but it isnt terrible
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NEQyJm87LY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4dzzv81X9w
>>60456549
>Dance Tonight
Top-tier song, that's for sure.
>>60456525
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxixIbONuCQ
when you're young, you're hopeful. you look to the future like it will be glorious, imagining great things.
as you age, your brain reaches maturity, you see more of the world, a sort of weariness and disillusionment begins to set in.
you see your grandparents die, your parents aging, and see yourself following their footsteps. your values change, the things that used to thrill you inexplicably lose their novelty.
if you have an active sex life, you waste all your energy and semen on your partner(s), leaving little for your creative pursuits. you are drained and wasted.
maybe after a while music loses its appeal, you start wondering what it's all for, what's the point, when everything just fades away, when you're forgotten, when the peak you reached in the past no longer stands out as such.
as a musician myself, i wonder what happened to me. when i was starting out, it was like nonstop creativity, but i was hopeful. life has worn me down, i feel like a big rock being worn away slowly but surely by the weather. to deal with life, i've toughened up, become indifferent, not so soft and sensitive, which are better qualities for making good music. indifference dulls you to everything, including the old thrills you'd get from sounds.
it feels weird to pick up your instrument and know that in the past you managed to see endless possibilities in it and seduced them from it, yet now you feel like nothing's coming from it, like all inspiration is dead.
add in drug use, failing health, the decadence of fame and fortune, and we're probably close to the reasons why a lot of the old greats became so washed up.
go completely out of the box and reinvent yourself. thats what scott walker did.
>>60457059
its interesting to see musicians take a risk like doing different genres.
I always said marylin manson should become a dj and do witch house music
>>60457272
bob dylan gave up all the hippie shit when he made Nashville skyline, it was really funny too because it came out around when mlk and jfk were killed and all the civil rights shit but dylan was like nah, im making country music now
>>60457362
Live Aid was even more shit then the relatively harmless Woodstock. It helped make Ethiopia into one of the most well armed states in Africa. Bob Geldolf is going right to hell for all the people he helped kill through his charity.
>>60453372
>Going for twenty years & can still write something as hard as 'bad as me'
how does he do it ladies and gentlemen
>>60457613
that mouth has had copious amounts of female excrement in it
>>60457764
explain
>>60457906
thank you for finding these links so that "chuck berry toilet tapes" doesnt have to be in my search history
>>60456218
Hours is so underrated.
Tin machine was too little too late.
>>60457906
"You can smell my fart" - Chuckles Berry
>>60452902
my favrite beetles are paul mccranty and jon lemon
idk. some people don't lose it. i'm thinking of michael gira now
>>60452877
David Bowie turned marketing into the essence of his art. All great phenomena of popular music, from Elvis Presley to the Beatles, had been, first and foremost, marketing phenomena, however, Bowie turned that into an art of its own. With Bowie the science of marketing becomes art; art and marketing become one. There were intellectuals who had proclaimed this theory in rebellious terms. Bowie was, in many ways, the heir, no matter how perverted, of Andy Warhol's pop art and of the underground culture of the 1960s. He adopted some of the most blaspheme issues and turned them upside down to make them precisely what they had been designed to fight: a commodity. Bowie was a protagonist of his times, although a poor musician: to say that Bowie is a musician is like saying that Nero was a harp player (a fact that is technically true, but misleading). Bowie embodies the quintessence of artificial art, raises futulity to paradigm, focuses on the phenomenon rather than the content, makes irrelevant the relevant, and, thus, is the epitome of everything that went wrong with rock music. Each element of his art is the emblem of a true artistic movement however, the ensemble of those emblems constitutes no more than a puzzle, no matter how intriguing, of symbols, a roll of incoherent images projected against the wall at twice the speed, a dictionary of terms rather than a poem, and, in the best of hypotheses, a documentary of the cultural fads of his era. Reading the chronicles of his times, it is clear that what caused sensation was the show, not the music. The show that Bowie set up was undoubtedly in sync with the avantgarde, as it fused theater, mime, cinema, visual art, literature and music. However, Bowie merely recycled what had been going on for years in the British underground, in particular what had been popularized by the psychedelic bands of 1967. And he turned it into a commodity: whichever way you look at his oeuvre, this is the real merit of it.
>>60452912
good hair genes. like wtf do u expect all men to go bald eventually?
>>60457510
I think the difference with Waits is that his musical styling suits being an old man so well. Punk rock sounds bizarre coming from an older group, but you can do the reflective, grizzled singer/songwriter thing quite well at an advanced age.
>>60455954
ditto on suede comeback. and when i think of it also primus comeback was good. i also liked what sonic youth did in their later years.
>>60456372
this too. there are just so maby examples that prove op wrong
I don't think it's them suddenly loosing their talent as much as it's them loosing the motivation to go through the effort of exploring and extracting that talent and pouring it out onto paper.
>>60460126
I don't disagree with that, but Waits has aged a lot more gracefully (gracelessly?) than Dylan, so I can half understand Dylan fans who only care about the old stuff. Waits doesn't have as many 'canon hits' either, so his audiences are more receptive to change.
maybe also some people get into such comfy celeb lives there's nothing to write about
>>60452877
Bowie released a great single last year. So. Yeah. Also, nice dubs.
>>60460084
>>60458813
>>60460221
Probably.
Vat? A quarter of the thread went up in smoke.
![Joseph_Haydn[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/DLlweZx.jpg "Joseph_Haydn[1].jpg")
Some guys just kept getting better until they died
>>60452877
An album isn't made just from talent, but also inspiration, which varies based on context. Some artists get more inspired than they're older, some are inspired by different things/in different ways and some just stop being so imaginative.
Besides, Eminem and David Bowie didn't lose their talent. You wouldn't be able to make anything like their recent albums, they're just not as good as their own older albums.
Another thing is that in a lot of cases an artist's first album may have been years in the making, whereas subsequent albums may be given less time in an effort to maintain relevance.
>>60456372
I think Trent is only still around is because he changed up what he was focusing on. I wasn't really into NIN but I loved the Gone Girl soundtrack so fucking much.
The biggest thing that can slow an artist down is the feeling of being culturally obsolete like happened to most 60s guys like the Stones and The Who once the 80s began. Their tone and message just wasn't relevant anymore.
>>60461159
They were obsolete from the moment the Sex Pistols broke.
>>60461199
Supposedly the Pistols once stumbled across Pete Townshend laying drunk on the sidewalk outside a pub and bawling "It's all over! The Who are washed up!" and of course they were stunned and horrified because nobody likes to hear one of their musical heroes saying that.
because people normally run out of ideas after a while
it's not like they just spontaneously sit down and "write music", the reason they get into music in the first place is because they have something in particular they want to do/get across
past that it's just about selling records = uninspired music
Whenever an artist complains that the fans don't want new music, that's usually just an excuse for why the new stuff sucks, most of the time because it's a paint-by-numbers rehash of their old classics.
>>60461338
Well...Tea & Theatre from Endless Wire has become a semi-regular feature of Who shows so apparently the fans were cool with it.
>>60456372
if I had a time machine I would go back to 1989 when Pretty Hate Machine was just released and tell people that this guy would have an oscar in the future
>>60461338
Albums like Bon Jovi's What About Now or Madonna's Rebel Heart were really just advertisements for a tour more than anything. They put out these slapped-together-in-five-minutes recordings so they can have an excuse to tour without looking like a Greatest Hits act even though that's all their setlist is going to include anyway.
If JBJ wanted to release new stuff, he should do it as a solo thing and just accept that Bon Jovi represents his 80s-early 90s output and that's what fans expect to hear so long as he's performing with the band.
most rock/pop artists have no technique nor any knowledge about musical composition; they barely experiment with form and make most of their careers out of one or two baisc, instinctive ideas. This works as long as you're young because this kind of music relies 98% on emotional impact and it is easier to communicate to your peers. As most rock musicians age, they lose this ability to speak to young people because, well, that's how nature goes. ANd once this happens, they have no craftmanship or actual artistic maturity/established aesthetic/desire to break the boundaries to compensate with. Note that this phenomenon of musicians who "age badly" is almost exclusively a pop/rock thing, whereas in classical ("art") music it is usually the opposite.
>>60461106
I haven't got into the Gone Girl one yet, but the Social Network soundtrack is fantastic
>>60461703
That's what I bloody said in >>60456872!
>>60461703
Any music primarily based on youth and sexuality isn't going to work past a certain point. Goes without saying that Motley Crue are a bunch of 50 year old trailer park bums with huge beer guts still singing about teenage girls and...yeah.
>>60461703
sad, but true. there are a certainly some popular musicians who continually change and do well (scott walker, michael gira, van dyke parks behind the scenes, nick cave, etc). these guys usually are especially talented/knowledgable in some area, whether its composition, production, orchestration, lyricism, concpetualism, etc.
Art music is certainly different because formal style usually matures and develops as the composer becomes more and more experienced, and there are countless examples of this occuring. Hell, Carter released great music after being 100 years old.
I think there are still some exceptions, where it was entirely the pop artist's choice to fall off. Take Bob Dylan as an example. He doesn't care now, and never did. I'm sure he could write and perform great songs still, but it doesn't matter to him at all. Why continue then?
>>60461430
Hopefully he'll go for an EGOT. He's already has Grammy and Oscar under his belt.
>>60462616
Trent scoring a Broadway musical would be really strange but I'm interested
>>60461106
>not into Nine Inch Nails but into his composer work
Understandable. You should try Ghosts I-IV. Purely composer work. It's a prelude to his work on Gone Girl/Dragon Tattoo and Social Network.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6rtjUMJDxA
>>60462684
Fight Club musical incoming.
http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/07/trent-reznor-and-david-fincher-are-working-on-a-fight-club-rock-opera/
>>60456725
Naming the rare exception isn't the point of the thread, you're delusional if you genuinely think it's not the case.
