Doesn't anybody else think that it was BS?
A unicorn with greater magical power than an alicorn?
And assuming it's not about magical power (although the battle pretty much gave that in with Starlight using hers to battle and fly) couldn't Twilight use a more believable way to show her point? Because that's not a vendetta you make up for in a 2 minutes speech... They could've had Twilight to modify the scroll to bring Starlight back when she did and try to reason on every world, and I didn't have to squeeze my brain to come up with it...
For the unbalance of powers and the weak plot resolving (very close to Deus Ex Machina) I'd give it a 3/10... Considering it's not an intricate show by nature, but I want my consistency!!!
I'd like to think Starlight trained hard enough to match Twilight in power level
>>25592055
Yes, I do agree. It makes no sense that a pony who was triggered by a fucking cutie mark to be better than ms nerdy princess bitch who studied for years and has already been said to have much more magical prowess than other ponies
>>25592055
Yes, Twilight levitated some small animal for a minute and became exhausted. Starlight levitated herself the whole time, maintained a cloud walking spell, moved herself with the freedom of a normal Pegasus, and spammed magic shots while being lifted the whole time. WTF?
>>25592138
It's still different I think
If so why didn't any unicorn gave twilight their magic when she had to battle Tirek, not even rarity a great friend of hers despite of the challenge... emotionally it'd had made sense but I say it's been left pretty clear that alicorns are on other plane of power, and that's only on that issue.
Also take into account that Twilight studies like babies all the time, it's like her persona
>Unicorn
>Established town in middle of nowhere
>Would have had to be powerful enough to fight off magical creatures
versus
>Alicorn
>Student of Celestia
>Never actually been in any life threatening situations until moving to Ponyville
For that matter does Twilight even fucking study magic anymore or have her studies in that regard already been fleshed out and she's just filling in the gaps with friendship and reading for leisure?
did anyone take into consideration that twilight cast a high level time spell like a dozen times before fighting while glimmer was already there?
>>25592223
We've seen her study magic, in the time traveling ep, the time they went to see rainbow dash compete, and several more so...
>>25592229
Exactly. Take into consideration all of her magic use in the timelines before the fight and her overall exhaustion, and the fact that Glimmer is at her prime and is a magical prodigy herself, and it ends up well balanced.
>>25592055
>A unicorn with greater magical power than an alicorn?
Not bullshit at all, being an alicorn doesn't make your unicorn magic stronger in any way.
>couldn't Twilight use a more believable way to show her point? Because that's not a vendetta you make up for in a 2 minutes speech...
What other way was there? Twilight showed her the future once and convinced her to try.
>For the unbalance of powers
What?
>and the weak plot resolving (very close to Deus Ex Machina)
Double what?
>>25592229
well, Starlight Glimmer also did that
>>25592265
>being an alicorn doesn't make your unicorn magic stronger in any way
Actually it literally is. Tirek had all the magic of every pony in Equestria and it was still only EQUAL to that of the 4 princesses
>>25592265
>Not bullshit at all, being an alicorn doesn't make your unicorn magic stronger in any way.
Doesn't but it would make you use magical stamina to fly and use magic in a duel.
>What other way was there? Twilight showed her the future once and convinced her to try.
something more than a 1 min pep talk, solving a deep problem like that is as retarded as expecting somebody with a deep problem to be fine by saying "oh, just lighten up".
what and double what => what I just wrote
>>25592223
Your that anon that assumes Starlight was born into some back alley, magical street fight arena yet holds a double standard for Twilight based on little facts, aren't ya?
>>25592279
It's not that simple, Twilight didn't use unicorn magic to fight Tirek. Cadance for example is fucking useless.
>>25592279
It was probably
44% Celestia
33% Luna
22% Cadance
1% Twilight
>>25592266
she only cast it once and then was there. twilight had to recast it every time she got sucked back into the present.
>>25592055
Has the show ever confirmed that Alicorn Twilight is more powerful than Unicorn Twilight outside of the episode where the other princess temporarily lend her their power?
As far as I can tell this "Twilight is super powerful now because she's an alicorn" is mainly headcanon
>>25592319
>44% Celestia
>the only one who has never defeated anything
>>25592279
What if they're already gifted with immense magical power as whatever species they are and becoming an alicorn makes it easier to control and recognize? If a unicorn already knew the scope of her power would it be much of a stretch that she could match an alicorn? Especially one who just became an alicorn?
>>25592299
>Doesn't but it would make you use magical stamina to fly and use magic in a duel.
Twilight is a shitty flier with poor stamina as we've seen many times, her being able to fly is a very minor advantage that doesn't make up for normal unicorn spells.
>something more than a 1 min pep talk
Like an entire timewarp scene plus a 2 minute discussion we got? Or would you prefer if the entire second half of the episode was nothing but a calm and rational discourse? Just how much precious screentime would you prefer they'd have wasted on this plotpoint?
The imagined "unbalance of powers" is all in your head, and there's nothing even close to a Deus Ex Machina in the episode.
>>25592357
le worf effect xd
>>25592055
she held back so as not to just kill glimmer, she was pulling her punches the entire time
>>25592382
she probably feigned being tired too
>>25592279
Yeah but
>Two of those alicorns have a talent for raising and lowering celestial bodies. They've also lived for countless years
>One of them has a talent for love which in the magical land of equestria is likely pretty powerful
>And the last has a talent for motherfucking magic.
>>25592055
how many times do i gotta say it twilight was nerfed for the sake of the plot and it's not like this is the first time this shit's happened. You're all overthinking and trying to rationalize it way too hard
>>25592138
>trained hard enough to beat the Element of Magic at magic
Yeah, and maybe you can outrun Usain Bolt if you just try really, really hard.
>>25592346
I'd go for that time she and Cadence had to get Discord a cure, as I'd say they were alike with Twilight even being a little superior in the fight and on the changeling story it's clear that Cadence is stronger than Twilight unicorn
>>25592427
That wasn't the only thing sacrificed at the altar of Bad Writing. Starlight's origin story was kind of an asspull, too.
"Oh, got mah cootie murk! Better go leave my best friend behind and never talk to her again!"
>>25592430
But unicorn Twilight lifted and entire Ursa Minor which seemed pretty comparable.
Also it was technically Shining armour using the power of Canada's love that took out the changelings
>>25592514
>Canada
I chuckled
>>25592138
This. Starlight's also very talented at Magic, and she could have researched and trained her ass off for this plan to even come close to succeeding. Twilight's not the only special snowflake when it comes to being gifted at it. Remember who predated her? Starswirl.
>>25592429
The element of magic isn't just magic in general, but more importantly, the magic of harmony through friendship. Its the spark that brings all the elements together...not a symbol of raw power.
>>25592514
I'd chalk that down to the inconsistencies in early episodes, they've changed a lot of things like Big Mac's cutie mark and the color of magic since then.
Or you could partially rationalize it by the fact the Ursa Minor is transparent and star-like, perhaps it's almost weightless?
Assuming the tiredness of all the running and multiply casting the time magic before the battle and w/e, still nobody can take the fact of the shit resolution of Starlight's anger, much less her resultant personality
>>25592677
Starlight is OP for sure, something they even mentioned at the end of the finale. We'll find out more about that next season I'm sure.
Personally, with all the power moves of last season like CMCs getting marks and Candyass&Shiney fucking, I wouldn't past the writers to validate the she's somehow connected to Starswirl theory. Be it descendant, reincarnation, or who the fuck knows what. Plus they've been teasing shit about him every season.
Even though she's clearly powerful, Twi still would have won the fight under normal circumstances. She was in and out of portals, casting, and trying to get out of trouble in every timeline. She was worn out.
>tl;dr
Twi was fucking tired. And Starlight isn't a normal unicorn [citation next season].
>>25592055
Hmm how can I put this.
Give a gun to a kid that never held one in his life and tell him to shoot a dime at 300 yards. And see how that goes.
My point is if a bullet was magic and all the guns are equal you can't expect everyone to know how to handle one. Twilight might be carrying a big gun being an alicorn and all but she still is quite young and not as experienced as say Celestia or Luna who already has 1000 years on her.
All we can infer for sure is that some magic is passed down hereditary, as with baby cakes. Other magic is learned through study. Just because you put a bigger magazine in your gun doesn't mean you automatically get better aim. Chances are because Starlight's friend was sent to magic school (when he got his cutie mark) she studied hard in magic possibly in hopes to join back. Though that is only speculation, Im sure there many who can still surpass twilight in power.
>>25592617
It was both, back in the day. Heavy emphasis on "was". Twilight was crazy fucking powerful. That was kind of a big feature of her character.
>>25592819
Yes, Twilight did have great potential. That doesnt mean that there cannot be others who can be talented enough (or work hard enough) to equal or surpass her. She was just fortunate to be in the proper place for "Destiny" to chose her as its representative, but she's far from being the end all of magic power then and now.
>>25592845
Hi, Starlight.
>>25592055
Starlight didn't land a single shot on Twilight other than the surprise attack
>>25592845
I think in the showverse, it does mean that. I think there's something different about Starlight. She's not a normal unicorn. It's the Twilight Sparkle show she's not going to be weaker than some unicorn.
I'm telling you, next season we'll learn actually what's up with SG.
>>25592279
I think it might actually be that alicorn magic is of a different variety, but is not inherently more powerful. Celestia and Luna had the most since (if you take the Journal of the Two Sisters as canon) moving celestia objects gave them huge magic boosts over time. Mainly though, the nature of their magic actually allows them to move the cosmos without draining themselves and gifts them with advanced flight and magic "potential". Starswirl was arguably as powerful or moreso than an alicorn, and who knows, Starlight could be a descendant.
>>25592934
>expecting the show to fill its numerous plot holes
Ah, I remember what I was like, three years ago...
Those were better times. Simpler times.
>>25592959
Guy, that's not even a plot hole. And the finale literally set it up for SG to be around. And they actually mentioned something along the lines of, "I couldn't beat SG with my magic, wtf? We'll be her friend and figure it out."
>DYEWTFinale
>>25592934
It could just mean (due to her talent and skills,) that she's also destined for great things, and like Coloratura and others before, Starlight will eventually get her cutiemark glow once she realizes what it is that she has to do.
>>25592861QUIET!
Look at the three names.
Sunset Shimmer
Twilight Sparkle
Starlight Glimmer
Sound similar eh, well guess what - IT'S TIME TO KNOW THE TRUTH.
Upon taking Sunset Shimmer as an apprentice, Celestia was aware of her magic power and how potent it was, but Sunset's delinquent and rebellious behaviour against the tyrant Celestia had led to continous disputes between the two, until Sunset decided to leave for the EQG world.
However, Celestia was aware of Sunset's power and needed to keep it somehow, so needed a back-up plan in case Sunset rebelled (Which she did!)
After getting replicas of Sunset's DNA and genetically modifying them, two genetically similar foals (Or Non identical Twins) had been produced, one having the dominant genes that made Sunset more powerful, and the other with the recessive - After making a tragic mistake, Celestia had put the one she thought was recessive in the orphanage, and manipulated the other's life in order to turn her into the next princess.
Unfortunately, the recessive and Dominant genes were mixed up, hence why Starlight is stronger than Twilight.
Also, Celestia genetically engineered them, hence they would not resemble Shimmer, but the names are similar due to the fact that they are technically her clones.
Starlight has the more powerful magic and has her own ideals, if she were the one to receive full on alicorn powers, we'd be fucked.
TLDR TWILIGHT AND STARLIGHT ARE CLONES OF SUNSET SHIMMER
>>25592055
> all these people using Deus Ex Machina incorrectly
This was one finale that actually didn't have a Dues Ex Machina. No superpowers came out of nowhere like Canterlot Wedding or Twilight's Kingdom
Anyway, natural potential /= skill. Twilight was an academic her whole life. There is no reason to expect she is a powerful fighter.
>>25592055
I don't think it was at all. After all, Twilight just RECENTLY got alicorn status. Even if in canon alicorns are legit excessively powerfulwhich, I would agree with, that doesn't mean that she would instantly gain God status. Also >>25592229
Twilight was probably tired as well, remember the forest with timberwolves in the alternate NMM future? She was tired already, and still cast the time spell several more times
>>25592998
>show is conceived
>creator has idea to focus on extremely powerful magical prodigy out of water
>creator leaves
>new runner decides to basically copy the original idea to create a compelling villain
>twice
And people will still defend her.
>>25593013
>rationalizing
And he hits you because he loves you, you stupid bitch.
>>25593044
Believe me Anon, I wanted to enjoy this finale without overthinking it, because it's better that way, but it all goes to hell when I get in 4chan, overanalyzing stupid shit with other obsessed autists.tldrit's what we do
>>25593078
You want to be an ostrich? Go stick your head in the sand. My eyes are wide fucking open.
>>25592986
Ok, not knocking that idea, I do think it's less likely though.
I did read in another thread the idea that, SG lives in the middle of no where her whole life. And then as the leader of a town who is gifted in magic, she would be the one to defend it. Ponyville gets fucked pretty often, maybe her town did too.
So, for the majority of her life she was using and training in offensive, agility, and less known magic (like her equalizer and the time spell).
While Twi was more about theory and learning as many different types of magic she could. And her massive OP power allows her to win the majority of the time, without needing to really train, but when matched with someone that knows offensive magic her natual skill only goes so far.
>tl;dr
If Twi didn't loaf around and actually trained she would be all powerful, but since she only fights when needed when she's up against someone who is versed in offensive magic (plus being naturally talented at magic to some degree) she can't just win like usual.
>>25592998
>Les Potros Terribles
>>25592055
Didn't Celestia get solo'd by Chyrss in S2 final?
All the M6 can handle them self more or less as good as Twilight. She should've gone overdrive and activate her Rainbow Power and take out Starlight, but nope. She just had to be a retard.
>>25593117
She needs her friends to do that though. Without them she's basically powerless. The entire episode she was trying to reunite with her friends to save the day.
As for the season 2 finale, it was just a show of how incredibly absurdly powerful the love power of Shining and Cadance was.
>>25593091
Well, Twilight is a bookworm and a pacifist by nature, but its kind of amusing that Starlight can basically fly like a pegasus with only levitation
>>25593117
>Rainbow power is connected to the Tree of Harmony
>Need friends to perform
>No friends
The only retard here is you
>>25593117
Friendship Magic doesn't work that way anon. They actually brought that up in the comics recently, too.albeit in a retarded way
>>25593132
>basically powerless
Nigger what show are you watching? Twilight is OP across the board. But everything is easier with friends. She knew the best chance she had was to find them, bitch thinks things out.
>>25593156
You're taking it too literally, I belive he meant in comparison to the mane6's power, she's "basically powerless" in comparison
>>25593156
Twilight has almost never solved a problem on her own. She has been strong, but even with all the power of all the alicorns she failed against Tirek. She's smart, but is not the most powerful by any metric without access to her friends.
>>25593132
>She needs her friends to do that though. Without them she's basically powerless.
Citation needed.
Seriously. Once they got their Rainbow Power they should be able to transform separately since they are now the embodiments of the element as opposed to the bearers. What the fuck was the point of getting Rainbow Power if it's as useless as the elements of Harmony?
>>25593194
Why would harmony magic ever be capable of being used individually? It's literally the magic of friendship, which means you should expect it needs friends to work in any capacity. If anything, the rainbow power is just an extension of the elements, so it works just like they did in The Return of Harmony, where missing even one element made them useless.
>>25593139
I'd imagine powerful unicorns can just do that. That being said there really aren't that many.
Twi and Trixie, as unicorns, were shown to be able to lift massive objects, that others couldn't. I'd image they could easily self levitate, Trix maybe in quick bursts.
Twilight's 'fighting' style is more based on quick teleports, or it used to be. Now that she has wings why even bother and waste the magic.
SG, might find 'flying' meshes better with her fighting style, or maybe she can't teleport and just kept practicing self levitation until she was especially proficient at it.
>>25593177
>>25593179
That's the point of the show. With friendship you can overcome anything.
And I meant the most powerful 'normal' character. Not Tirek, not Sombre and whatever black magic he's tapping into, not NMM. Just normal pones. And probably the princesses.
>>25593148
The comics take place in a completely different universe from the show, characters even have different personalities a lot of the time, and a lot of plotlines are different.
NMM's origin and nature, Sombra's nature, etc. are completely different in the comics.
>>25593214
>Why would harmony magic ever be capable of being used individually?
It seems pretty implied that since they can 'transform' they should be able to do it separately. The elements of Harmony are no longer weldable items that need to be within radius of each other. I agree that the full extent of the power would require the whole gang, but they still ought to use their 1/6 of the power on their own.
>>25593262
Until it's shown that they can access it individually I think that's just unfounded. By all accounts they have to access the power as a group or not at all.
>>25593257
The magic of friendship still needs the six of them, both in show and in that shitfest.
Three things.
One. Starlight had lots of prep time.
Two. She's established as Sunset/Twilight-tier in terms of power.
Three. Twilight casting that spell clearly is taxing. Yet she's able to keep on Starlight. She could defeat Starlight one on one. What she admits to is she can't STOP her from her plan, which is prevent the Rainboom, and flat out says Starlight can't stop her either.
>>25592934
I think she's going to be the next Starswirl (who knows, she might actually be related to him). She perfected his spell and her magical prowess is beyond what any other powerful unicorn could do. And we know Starswirl was even capable to raise the sun on his own, except it didn't take long before he lost all of his magic due to overstraining himself.
What's BS is suddenly needing a scroll to cast spells, despite Twilight usually looking at a spellbook and remembering forever.
>>25594337
because plot device
>>25592279
>>25592319
>Actually it literally is. Tirek had all the magic of every pony in Equestria and it was still only EQUAL to that of the 4 princesses
Don't forget about Discord's power. He also had that, and still was only equal to the princesses. It doesn't even make sense, seeing how Celestia couldn't stand up to Discord in RoH.
I think that perhaps Glimmer will save Equestria in the end?
Howver, since they already used Tirek, it seems quite a stretch to have some entity more powerfuyl than him that requires Glimmers powers to defeat it alog with the other 6.
And that would also imply the fucking writers have an idea of what they are doing.
>>25594354
>I think that perhaps Glimmer will save Equestria in the end?
Now that she's Shimmer 2.0, that's a given. She'll surely be the one who saves the day in the s6 opener.
>>25593103
well keked
>>25592055
>A unicorn with greater magical power than an alicorn?
How about an unicorn with alicorn magic?
>>25592998
shitty headcanon anon.
This ain't NGE.
>>25594360
I meant, in the very end of s6, assuming that's the end of the whole ride that is.
Otherwise they are kinda becoming way too fucking OP imo.
>>25592279
by this logic.
Alicorns -> earth ponies -> Pegasi -> unicorns
>>25592915
this
and also she only did beat twilight cause of the the modified star swirl's spell that was in the scroll.
>>25592998
TL:DR solid and liquid shimmer
>>25592055
Twilight is a fledgeling alicorn, she hasn't had much time to train and master her new alicorn powers. It's always been my headcanon that Alicorn magic, rather than an instant upgrade from normal Unicorn magic is something that requires practice and time to master but ultimately offers much greater power in the long run.
I also have a sneaking suspicion that Starlight might actually be Starswirl's descendant and that is part of the reason she has so much talent (I mean just look at the names). We'll see if I'm right though because I actually think that this point is going to come up later in season 6.
>>25592427
Go back to reading books you pseudointellectual nigger. Analyzing things is fun.
>>25592998
A weapon to surpass Metal Gear.
>>25592319
Actually, since Luna has more magical power than Celestia (she beat her twice as Nightmare Moon in canon, and canon says that there are no additional entities increasing her power when she is Nightmare Moon, thereby Luna is more powerful on her own) so I would put it more like this.
45% Luna
43% Celestia
10% Cadance (she's a Neo-Alicorn like Twilight, not born with Alicorn magic but gifted it so I don't think she's that strong)
2% Twilight
>>25592265
>Not bullshit at all, being an alicorn doesn't make your unicorn magic stronger in any way.
how about her talent is to be good at MAGIC
while she is the element of MAGIC
who spent her whole life training MAGIC?
also, glimmer managed to create a thoursand timefold stronger spell than the most magical unicorn who ever lived
the powerlevel is bullshit, she was in the background of several episodes, scheming a revenge by observations, it doesn't even matter because she can outclass everything in raw power
the very first episode was "oh she has an artifact?" in the end, nothing about this, just raw power, because
>>and the weak plot resolving (very close to Deus Ex Machina)
>Double what?
oh nothing, "it's not good to be bad" then she proceed to be intantly forgiven by everyone everywhere
>>25594695
>glimmer managed to create
No, she edited an already existing spell and still needed a magical medium in form of the castle map to make it work. Twilight edited Starswirl's spell as well, and managed to change Cutie Marks. As we saw from alternative timelines, their Cutie Marks stayed the same all the time which means changing Cutie Marks is pretty powerful.
>>25592055
Twilight also had a potential for magic I see no problem other ponies having the potential for doing magic too
>>25594695
She just changed Starswirl's spell, she even said herself that Starswirl did all the hard work and that what she had to do to make her plan work was easy.
>>25594383
>alicorn magic
Thanks for reminding me how the writers completely ruined a character that already had so very little going for him.
>>25594781
How so? I think that added some depth which makes you wonder how he managed to do all that. Of course it being "Alicorn Magic" and not "Dark Magic" that Twilight had to use was a bit meh but still.
>>25592915
Actually, Starlight was a far better shot than Twilight. Twilight either narrowly avoided her attacks or had been forced to shield herself from them. Go rewatch it again.
>>25592218
What Arcana would "Studies Like Babies" be? Sounds like a Chariot Persona.
Don't forget that while Starlight still was in top shape all the time, and eager to fight, Twilight became more and more tired (since she was the same Twilight throughout), and she wasn't eager to fight at all, at least until the later attempts.
Still, she should have overpowered Starlight, but it wasn't that unbelievable.
The real villain was never Sombra, Chrysalis, NMM, Discord, Tirek or Starlight it was Sunburst all along
>>25592429
well, yes, if Usain Bolt starts to only hang out with friends instead of training, i am sure any of us could eventually outrun him
>>25592429
If he has as much raw potential in running as Starlight has in magic, he might.
>>25594994
>Starlight still was in top shape all the time
All the spell does is transport Starlight as well whenever Twilight uses it. It doesn't refresh or heal, just put Starlight where Twilight is. So no Twilight doesn't even have that.
What's even more crazy is that Starlight can teleport objects to her. She could have brought Spike's book bag to her at anytime, taken the scroll and end the fight. Twilight's "well I'll keep trying and we'll do this endless" was a pointless card.
>>25595196
But who's casting, therefore using magic, the spell all those times? Twilight. As shown it's magically draining, yet Twilight is still able to keep up.
Also, being able to shield the projectiles only proves that Starlight's magic is not strong enough to penetrate Twilight's, while on the contrary, she has to dodge Twilie's magic.
>>25595196
Starlight has never shown the ability to teleport, though.
>>25595698
Edit, I am dumb. I missed that she teleported the bag and didn't levitate it near the end.
All of you faggots seem to be forgetting the most important thing: Starlight used the map to amplify her powers. The map is connected to the Tree of Harmony, the most powerful magic in all of Equestria. Sure, Starlight was powerful already as we saw in the S4 premiere, but she would never have managed to do what she did without the help of the map. It was only with the map that she managed to go back several years into the past, while Twilight only went back a week with a similar spell. It is even likely that the map saw Starlight as a friendship problem to solve and that's why it allowed Starlight to use its magic.
That map seems to be ridiculously OP. Who knows what it's really capable of?
>>25595698
Teleport herself no. The end of the season opener wasn't a teleport.
>>25592194
Deus ex machina
How do you beat an unbeatable Mary Sue? You make another more powerful Mary Sue.
>>25592055
I can't really give a good explination, but I could shed some light, in the battle with Tirek. Twilight was completely pissed off after losing her house.
>>25592429
That is literally how Usain Bolt got to be Usain Bolt.
He tried really fucking hard over a really long period of time and had natural talent.
>>25595788
Except that was just for the time spell itself. The self levitation and blasts were her own doing given that she's self levitating with Rainbow in the last montage.
Fuck if you watched it, Twilight herself says that Starlight is the strongest unicorn she's seen in her life aside from herself.
I don't think you can apply a "dragonball powerlevel" logic in mlp.
There are many other variable in a fight aside the crude power, like strategy, reflexes, luck, perceptions and other perks and SPECIAL that Starlight may have and Twiggy not.
Remember that Twilight is a scholar and not a fighter, and the princess of friendship not of the hadokens.
>>25592319]
200% Nigga
0% Celestia
0% Luna
0% Cadance
0% Twilight
>>25595916
Why is his neck cut open?
>>25595844
No, Twilight said that she's one of the most talented ponies she's ever met, not the most talent. There's significant wiggle room in the actual statement.
>>25592055
Starlight had way more set up.
She had the home field advantage, she most likely spent time studying the landscape (cloudscape?) of the race.
Also, Twilight probably isn't very versed in combat magic, seeing how she solves most problems non violently.
50% Celestia
40% Luna
6% Cadence
4% Twilight
I do believe Celestia holds more power than Luna. Luna, on the other hand is a much better combatant. That's the reason, Celestia can't fight NM without The Elements.
I think both Cadence and Twilight are about equal in terms of power, but it's hard to tell more precise, as Cadence has only one shown feat - blast that threw Chrysalis out of Canterlot. The problem is, it was done by her and Shining armor, but it still trumps anything Twilight had shown so far. But I do believe Twilight is likely to win in a fight against Cadence.
On topic, I really doubt that Starlight is anywhere close to Twilight in terms of actual power, as Twilight had some power feats even prior to getting wings. The problem is, Twilight is a bad battle-mage. She's a scholar mage - she knows a lot of actual spells for a wide variety of stuff ranging from weak and going to an absurdly OP ones, but her primitive magic (aka simple energy beams, shields and stuff) isn't trained and polished at all. She has a lot of knowledge but not much of practice. The only combat-related thing she's really good at is blinking (teleporting) around.
And even at that fight, Starlight didn't had to actually win - she only had to endure long enough. I tend to think, if the fight went for longer, Twilight would've won.
>>25595868
Underrated post
>>25596782
>I do believe Celestia holds more power than Luna
What makes you think that? And how do you define "power" here? The only pony who comes close to matching Twilight's repertoire is Luna, and Luna does all her magic effortlessly, the only time she's looked strained was when she simultaneously created a shared dream for every inhabitant in Ponyville and entered said dream herself.
>The problem is, it was done by her and Shining armor, but it still trumps anything Twilight had shown so far.
What's the difference between the love magic Shining Armor and Cadance has, and the friendship magic Twilight and her friends have?
>>25592055
Starlight wasn't even close to twilight's level.
The ONLY reason it seemed that way is because of her persistence and ease of win conditions. All Starlight had to do was nudge events to spin the timeline off, meanwhile Twilight had to completely neutralize her or convince her to stop.
BUT TIME TRAVEL
Any wizard worth their gray hairs can read a fucking scroll.
>>25592055
> Knowing stuff =/= being good at fighting with stuff.
Twilight is basically a guy who read a ton of book about martial arts and stay hidden in his basement. It doesn't matter if you know and understand every theoretical aspect and finer details, you will get your ass kicked by whoever decided to actually train instead of just having book knowledge.
Also, people seem to forget WHERE the fight was happening : in the middle of a city, with a lot of foals around. Starlight probably didn't care much about collateral damage while TS had to severely limit her spells and power in case she miss her target too much.
>>25597037
Mostly, because she's older and is capable of moving both the Sun and the Moon. Also, she's bigger.
"Repertoire" is a part of combat ability. Celestia isn't a warrior. She holds a massive amount of power, but she doesn't use it in a destructive manner. I'm also pretty sure, Celestia could've obliterated even love-powered Chrysalis if she went all out. But she either didn't do it because there could've been casualties and massive destruction, or because she simply has big problems with unleashing power in a destructive manner and doesn't know how to do it efficiently.
Luna, and especially NM not only knows how to fight - she's best battle-mage in the show so far. The only reason she lost to mane 6 is that even NM is actually pretty soft and didn't simply murder them right away (kid's show, I know).
Also, remembering lazor beams Twilight was firing in Season 4 finale:
Cadence is nowhere near the level of Luna. Twilight is at best on the same level with Cadence. And we've seen how Luna's magic attacks look like - they were nowhere close to being even 1/4 of what Twilight used. And Twilight is worse than NM in shooting lazor beams.
That power had to come from somewhere, and my bet is Celestia.
About Shining Armor, I didn't mean the "love" magic. It's simply two horses instead of one. And given Shining actually covered the whole Canterlot with a barrier for several days, he is pretty powerful magician. So it's hard to tell how much of a factor was Cadence in their nuke.
>>25597332
>Mostly, because she's older and is capable of moving both the Sun and the Moon. Also, she's bigger.
I doubt size matters all that much, unless you're talking physical power.
The age difference between Luna and Celestia can't be that large, either. At least it's probably not several thousand years as it'd need to be for age to be a relevant factor.
Against moving the sun and moon, we have the intro to the pilot, where Luna refused to lower the moon. Celestia was incapable of wrestling it from her, weaker than Luna in that sense.
>That power had to come from somewhere, and my bet is Celestia.
Or it scales multiplicatively instead of additive, that makes just as much if not more sense. The various friendship feats the mane6 perform are also far greater than the sum of their individual contributions.
>>25597532
That what makes me "think" it is the way I think. It makes sense for me, it fits into the show so far, so I'll stick with it until it will be either proven wrong or confirmed.
>not several thousand years
Well, not several. Their actual age difference + one thousand years during which Celestia have been ruling Equestria and Luna was a modern art.
Here's my theory:
Yes, Twilight is very gifted, and yes, she knows quite a few spells. However, these spells are useless unless you have the strength, focus, and energy to use them. When she became an alicorn, it gave her the ability to better control the flow of this energy, making her magic more efficient. However, it didn't make her "stronger" the only thing that makes you stronger is practice.
Look at it this way: the more pull ups you do, the stronger your muscles get, and the more you can do later. Same with magic. The more you use it, the bigger your pool of energy will become. The more powerful the spell, the faster this happens.
Glimmer has a bigger pool of magic,mostly because of her usage of the cutie mark removal spell. That is a high level spell that she cast countless times, and each time, got better at it. Because she had more magic to cast it with. Twilight doesn't use as many powerful spells like that, so her power just stopped where it was. Sure, she has more control, but she still has a small energy pool. Also, the other anon's make a good point. Twilight had already used a good portion of her magic with the time spells, so by the end, she was exhausted.
All in all, it just came down to power vs. Control. Glimmer had more power, but not enough stamina to keep up with Twilight, and Twilight didn't have the strength to overpower Glimmer.
>>25598083
twilight is a burger-guzzling fatass who can't fly properly, that's why they tied
>>25595788
I remember now that Meghan said the map allowing powerfull unicorns to do some pretty crazy things.
>>25592194
Twilight had stunted magic as a filly; she was good at theory, but not practice. This changed on the day of the Sonic Rainboom, but she was never able to match that level again until she unlocked the Element of Magic. That's why she and Spike were cataloging her new spells in the first season's Trixie episode. She hadn't been able to do them until then. She'd learned the theory behind them all, though. Imagine Hermione Granger unlocking Harry Potter's sheer magical ability.
Her defeats of The Ursa and of Trixie were from stacked spells working in harmony and from tricks, not vast reserves of mana. Even as a princess alicorn, she exhausted her magic in only an hour or so of battling.
>>25598083
>Twilight had already used a good portion of her magic with the time spells, so by the end, she was exhausted
This desu.
Assuming Glimmer is generally weaker than Twilight, Twilight spent time fighting in each alternate past, while Glimmer just chilled and waited for her return.
The time spell automatically pulled Glimmer back, so really all Glimmer had to do was dodge some lasers and wait for Twilight to tire.
>>25592365
Don't forget the princess diary book. In it, Canterlot was the city of the Alicorns before the three tribes of ponies ever reached Equestria. And then they left. I wonder if natural Alicorns are more powerful by an order of magnitude then ascended Alicorns?
>Make Twilight powerful
MARY SUE! Writers are hacks!
>Make Twilight less powerful
INCONSISTENT! Writers are hacks!
I guess you can't please everyone.
>>25592458
I had a best friend who moved away. It was his parents who moved him. It's not like he wanted to.
Later in life, trying to get that kind of golden beautiful best friend friendship again, I made friends with abusive people. So yeah, friends moving away can rip open a child's life.
>>25599091
Pretty sure you're agreeing with me, but I'm not sure... Either way, you're right as well.
>>25592950
The word star is in both their names…
>>25592357
Saint Princess Celestia Almighty (pbuh) has fought for centuries and centuries long time before your ancestors were even formed!
also let's keep in mind that part where Twi can't fight her and decide to make her as a friend is only one single absurd alternate timeline, there could be others, one where let's say Glimmer kills Twilight. One where Twilight succeed to kill Glimmer, with the help of Filly RD, making her a martyr maybe, and leading to a revolt against alicorns.
and many where nothing at all happened.
>>25594781
He's an Umbrum pony, not a true unicorn. Imbued with the dark powers of his imprisoned race, destined to raise them and scour the planet.
>>25594337
In some RPGs, you need to have the scroll to cast it. In the Elder Scrolls, anyone can cast from a scroll.
>>25594337
>>25594338
You need to learn some magic lore. Casting from or with the aid of a scroll is nothing new.
>>25593221
Don't forget, twilight knows gravity spells which, if toggled quickly, could result in a flying effect. I play a fan game where the gravity spells can also go sideways.
>>25597082
This nigger knows.
Regardless, SG is OP for a unicorn. Probably around the same level Twi was (as a unicorn).
While Twi was focused on learning as much as she could, Starlight obviously focused on levitation (self and otherwise) and those cutting lasers. That's about it, we never saw her cast ANYTHING else. Besides using powerful arcane objects, like the table, to full crazy high level spells.
That's not power, a pleb can cast from a scroll, that shows massive knowledge about magic.
Butknowledge is power.
>>25599144
I am agreeing.
Plus, we have seen that Twilight can have problems with her magic when she is stressful situation or not confident (Like the "I didn't even know it was going to happen" teleport in ticket master).
It's not inconceivable to believe that Twilight being taken by surprise here effects her magic ability.
>>25599144
I just realized... I got trip-dubs!
>>25599476
She still had to make her own alterations to Starswirl's spell, so its not like she just picked it up and just played with it.
She's clearly planned and tested this thoroughly in prepping for that plan. She might not be as all around well-versed as Twilight (who's had lots of privilege being Celestia's student), but she knew how to make what she worked with extremely effective.
>>25599599
Alterations to a spell on a scroll is mostly written, that's why the spell was useless without the scroll.
>she knew how to make what she worked with extremely effective
Right, exactly what I'm saying. She knows a LOT about magic and power sources, more than anyone I'd imagine. But she's doesn't have the magic to just pull off that spell. She needed the scroll.
>>25592223
I agree with you, its like i know lets say... the basic and advanced moves of boxing, but yet i dont know how to use them as i've never fought with anyone (Twilight)
meanwhile, someone who knows these movements aand how to use them would beat the shit out of me (Starlight)
>>25592055
>>25597082
>>25592194
>being much of a twifag
>1000+1000+10+5
shiggy diggy
>>25592223
>>25592229
>>25598083
>>25599121
>>25592265
my niggas
>>25592055
>A unicorn with greater magical power than an alicorn?
Sombra for $500.
>>25599783
I think OPs point was that SG is a normal unicorn. Sombra has dark/alicorn magic.
>>25592055
Twi have a great talent in UNDERSTANDING of magic. Never was told that she is a strongest one. And she isn't a natural born alicorn, even creators she isn't as cool as Tia and Luna.
Only one unicorn who was able to fuck Sisters - Star Swirl. But he is in Valhalla now.
>>25599823
This maybe the /trash/yest post I've seen.
>>25599946
Eeyup.
>>25592055
They ware evenly matched because the plot demanded it. Literally all the magic hornwaving fights in this show go one way or another because the plot demands it.
>>25599946
Twifag, pls.
Because the writers were sitting down and went "Wait, shit, Twilight's entire shtick is being really good at magic. How is she going to lose this? Eh, fuck it, let's just say that she's somehow less powerful even though that makes little sense."
This was presumably in the same meaning where they said "Shit, not enough time to actually wrap up this story in a satisfying way, somebody call Ingram to write a song or something."
