![[Kamigami] Kidou Senshi Gundam UC Unicorn - 04 [BD 1920x1080 x264 AAC(Jap,Eng) Sub(Chs,Cht,Jap,Eng,Fre,Spa)].mkv_snapshot_49.06_[2016.07.03_22.32.01].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/jwykMD7.jpg "[Kamigami] Kidou Senshi Gundam UC Unicorn - 04 [BD 1920x1080 x264 AAC(Jap,Eng) Sub(Chs,Cht,Jap,Eng,Fre,Spa)].mkv snapshot 49.06 [2016.07.03 22.32.01]")
Here's something.
The Efreet was a limited production Anti-Newtype mobile suit, right? The EXAM system is basically a prototype NT-D, right?
How did the Remnants get their hands on one? You'd think a suit this rare and powerful would be highly sought after by the Feddies.
Only Nimbus's Efreet had EXAM.
>>14451119
>The Efreet was a limited production Anti-Newtype mobile suit, right?
Only the Efreet Custom and its EXAM system count. The standard Efreet is just another prototype ground use MS that ended up being passed over in favor of the Dom.
>The EXAM system is basically a prototype NT-D, right?
Not unless you mean it's a generic anime powerup. The EXAM system forces an enslaved newtype soul to aid the pilot. The tortured soul can go berserk and move the MS by itself. It's meant to give oldtype pilots abilities that are comparable to newtypes.
NT-D is a system where the Unicorn Gundam's full specs are allowed to be used (100% performance is not available by default), the user has to be a newtype. The pilot is strapped in and can control the RX-0 completely by mental thought. However, there are later events where during NT-D the user can also operate the controls by hand. The NT-D mode puts a strain on the pilot's mind, the system also injects some drugs into the user via the seat restraints and the special RX-0 pilot suit to assist with handling the increased mental load. NT-D also has various metaphysical abilities such as overriding and controlling enemy funnels, projecting psycho-fields, and disabling enemies by merely waving its arm at them. The novel apparently also has the RX-0 capturing the essence of people dying nearby.
>How did the Remnants get their hands on one?
The unit in the Unicorn OVA is the Efreet Schneid, whose story before Unicorn is told in the Gundam Missing Link video game. They've been holding onto it and had it hidden for years after the unit was originally assigned to them in the OYW.
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/MS-08TX/S_Efreet_Schneid
>You'd think a suit this rare and powerful would be highly sought after by the Feddies.
In the Gundam 0081 game the Feds have a captured Efreet Nacht, but while rare it's not that powerful. Various Gundams already exceed its performance. The Schneid is only equal to a GM II in performance.
>>14451119
What really gets me is how those Zeek remnants were able to keep this rare, limited production Mobile Suit maintained for all those years, especially since Zeek suits are notorious for not having standardised spare parts (that was the whole point of the United Maintenance Plan).
>>14451215
Same reason how Haman raised a massive army, how Char's NZ and FF's Sleeved Zeon got their entire force custom built (including decorative trim for the Sleeved).
M'Quve had a shitton of gold for all of Zeon to share. Also AE is a war merchant of death, seeing as some remnants in 0096 are even using former Titans equipment.
>>14451215
It's not like it gets much use. Besides, AE was supplying them, hence why they got Zee Zulus.
>>14451119
The Efreet was a close-combat mobile suit, essentially Zimmad's answer to the Zeonic companies Gouf. Eventually both were superseded by the Dom.
>>14451240
There has never been any indication that Zimmad made the Efreet, most recent info seems to reinforce that.
http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16213
>>14451240
The Efreet was created by Zeon's Earth Attack Force's field engineers. It's literally a MS made by a bunch of dudes from space stuck in Afrca or some other underdeveloped shit and they decided, "Those fucktards in space didn't make the MS right..." So they made their own with whatever they got their hands on.
>I think what's happened here is that MAHQ has mixed up the back stories of the YMS-08A and Efreet, claiming that the YMS-08A was independently developed by the Earth Attack Force and that eight prototypes were made. In fact, that only applies to the Efreet; the YMS-08A was developed by Zimmad, and five units were made.
http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16213
The Efreet is a man's man's MS made by bros who actually had to suffer in the field and not some asshole elites in space who stayed in posh, A/C'd offices and labs.
I don't think it's any big surprise that the Efreet Nacht was tuned up by some guys stranded in nowhere because that's exactly how the Efreet was born.
>>14451253
So the Efreet was then a battlefield creation made by engineers from spare parts? It would make sense in the end why only 8 were made.
>>14451215
If it makes you feel any better, this Gouf that was sealed inside a castle probably broke down so it never made it to Torrington.
>>14451270
Is that the Gouf Heavy Arms Type?
>>14451273
Yes.
>>14451273
Yep, MAHQ identifies it as such. Aside from those few seconds on screen, there's nothing else though. I can't even find Unicorn lineart for it, unlike the rest of the suits that showed up in episode 4.
>>14451281
There's some artwork from MSV, but that's about it.
>>14451215
>United Maintenance Plan
The what?
>>14451119
Where'd the Marasais come from?
Did they borrow them from the Titans?
Did Neo Zeon use them? I haven't seen ZZ yet.
How do Zeon Remnants build and maintain stuff like their big mobile armour anyway? It'd be like ISIS producing brand new supertanks.
Not that I'm gonna complain about sick robots.
>>14451388
The designs for 0080 were originally retcons but then bandai realized they would make more money selling both kits so they added in some lore about the new designs being a part of a "united maintenance plan" which redesigned the Zaku and Dom so that they shared more parts making maintenance easier.
>>14451404
Neo Zeon used some Marasais, yeah. As for the Shamblo, that was a contribution by Loni's father, an industrialist who hated the Federation due top regarding it as an imperialist oppressor. So he could afford to produce a custom war machine for himself and his children (in the novel the Shamblo requires multiple pilots). But the OVA cut him out except as a mention in Loni's backstory, because his hatred of the Federation was also tied up in a lot of religious and racial issues and there was worry he'd be too controversial. So instead he died years before the Dakar attack.
>>14451407
Bandai is made up of serious geniuses.
How come the Remnant capture a Pegasus-class capital shio and use it as base ?
How come they can mobilize a large force all over the world under EF nose without no one know ? Even when the EFSF have task force like Londo Bell to hunt them ?
>>14451597
To continue the line of questions, why do they want to work for FF after Char tried to murder all of them with an asteroid? Seriously there's no way they could have evacuated if Axis fell
Why do GMs job so hard and never get an on screen kill?
>>14452025
The Gundam needs to look good to get them shekels
>>14451281
The Efreet is a sexy suit, I tell you what.
>>14451998
Because of MUH NOBLE ZEON IDEALS, of course. But yeah, Unicorn kind of ignores the fact that half of the Zeon remnants (Zabiists) should really hate the other half (Deikunists) and have them all get along like a big happy family united in hating The Evil Feddies despite the fact that that never really stopped Zeon infighting before (ZZ).
>>14451215
They explain it in Missing Link; Pilot's some ex-federation pilot from a penitent unit during the OYW that was fucked over by his superior and left to join the Zeon remnants and hides around committing raids with them in the Efreet Schneid till 0096. Said Efreet originally belonged to a Zeon pilot he respected, since the Zeon unit he led was in a similar situation as his own (think Battlefield: Bad Company and you got the right idea.)
He survives the Torrington assault and retreats with the survivors, who end up fighting each other because turns out they're not the most mentally stable bunch before being hunted down by Byarlant custom units 1 and 2.
>>14451407
Far from just the Zaku and Dom, it redesigned every Zeek MS. It's why the Z'Gok E and Hy-Gogg exist, for instance.
>>14452144
Ignore this anon. He has no idea what he's talking about.
The forces that were destroyed at Palau while Frontal and his boys made his escape are explicitly said to be comprised mostly of Zabi loyalists, and he intentionally allowed them to be culled by the Nahel Argama's assault during Operation Billiard.
They make it very clear that the Zabi and Char loyalists DON'T get along, enough that Frontal wanted them out of the picture and used the destruction of Palau to his political advantage.
>>14451998
Because he gave them the Shamblo in the OVA, and even then, they don't work for him, and instead support Zinnerman because the Unicorn held the key to destroying the Federation. In the novel, they aren't working for him at all, but rather Zinnerman to create a distraction while he rescued Mineva and Banagher.
>>14451179
The power creep gets pretty stupid in the UC timeline, Unicorn goes and takes it a step further amonsgt all the other bullshit plot twists
>>14451597
Asspulls, the only reason Zeon continues to exist in any serious fashion despite constantly getting btfo.
Also the Jap fanbase seem to really love self-inserting as Zeon, considering them the poor bullied underdog, it also helps they as a nation have much experience in ignoring horrific and extensive crimes against humanity.
>>14453171
Everything about the Unicorn and the Box and the endless retcons created by the novel are pretty lame.
>>14452032
And thats why we get series that are EVERYONE IS IN GUNDAMS!
>>14453376
Except everything after Unicorn forgets Newtypes exist until Victory and the Newtype laser.
>>14453410
Not sure what that has to do with anything in that posy, but retroactive continuity implies that they changed something previously established, and Unicorn really doesn't change a thing.
Origin's pretty retconny, though, considering they're reworking the OVA version to give it synergy with the mainstream continuity.
>>14451179
>Schneid
>Piloted by Fred Reber
Wait, the Gundam Pixie pilot became a Zeek?
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Fred_Reber?file=Fred0096.jpg
That's just maximum Zeonwank.
>>14453444
Trips are wrong I think, Iron Mask is a Cyber-Newtype, at least in the dub.
>>14453453
Wait what? Wasn't it Bork Cry who was the original Pixie Gundam pilot?
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Bork_Cry
A real man and not some turncoat faggot-ass nazi.
Was Fred created because Bork was just too damn masculine for Japan to handle?
>>14453453
-A- Gundam Pixie pilot.
There were 3.
Also, he wouldn't be the first. Thomas Kurtz, one of Zeon's top aces, is a Federation defector.
>>14453469
Yeah but all he does is pilot a tentacle machine. It's not like the extremes of Newtype power we get post-CCA, with Psychoframes and shit.
>>14453489
Iunno, I don't think any Early UC newtypes could operate that thing nearly as well as he did.
>>14451273
>>14451281
The head gives it away.
>>14453125
>>14453453
>>14453487
>Side stories are having more and more Fed defectors
>Soon UC Federation is going to be like CE Earth Alliance
>Absolutely no named characters but EVIL scheming sissies
>>14453453
To be fair, Reber got fucked over HARD working for the Federation, and was used by his superior to clean up dirty secrets left behind by internal bickering between Federation officers (usually by killing them, one time even with a Zaku weapon to hide evidence.)
Also, he doesn't defect to Zeon proper, merely joins the remnants. He participated in none of Zeon's movements post 0079, taking on more of a nomad/pirate role.
Missing Link was all kinds of retarded, but Reber's own character arc's a bit jnderstandable, considering the circumstances
>>14453501
I never noticed that before. You might be onto something, anon...
>>14453501
Thomas Kurtz is from the early 80s.
>>14453487
>joined at the start of the war because he's from Side 3
Defector my ass. You might as well not even count him as a defector since he basically joined Zeon's military the moment it was formed.
>>14453501
The Cosmic Era is the worst setting of all, simply terrible. Its just a shitty remake of UC but worse in every respect and a pair of absolute sues as its leading male and leading female characters.
>>14453516
I'm aware, but he was the start of a trend.
>>14453501
Fed Defector are also an excuse to create morally ambigious feddie protags without sullying the actual main storyline fed protags and an excuse to allow them to boozr, whore and ruthlessly kill zeeks without tarnishing people like Amuro and Uso.
>>14453569
The amount of defectors to Zeon versus defectors to the Federation are quite lopsided for Zeon
>>14453532
He wasn't really. I can count on two fingers the number of listed Federation defectors to Zeon, and both had reasons.
On the other hand, Professor Minovsky and Clust Mosses (Guy that invented EXAM) detected (or tried to, with the former) to the Federation.
>>14453580
Zeon is a brutal fascist autocracy/theoracracy where you will get a bullet if you decide to defect or has ways to properly dispose of dissidents.
Feddies has it share of hitmen, disgraced criminals who would leave in a heartbeat if given the chance. Imagine the outcry if Amuro was a white collar thief who sold his data to fund his coke habit
>>14451179
> NT-D also has various metaphysical abilities such as overriding and controlling enemy funnels, projecting psycho-fields, and disabling enemies by merely waving its arm at them.
Neither the ability to project a pyscofield or disable enemies by waving your arms are properties of the NT-D system, but of the psycoframe. The NT-D system is related to the psyco-frame presumably, but not responsible for either of those things. We know this because the Neo Zeong deployed a psycofield via it's psycoshard but had no NT-D system, nor had the Sinanju connected to it.
The psycofield in CCA activated because two psycoframes came in close proximity while in an area filled with human willpower, all concentrating on one thing. I've no idea what allowed the psycoshard to activate on on it's own, but I suppose it could be that it (or the Neo Zeong itself) counted as a second psycoframe on top of the Sinanju's one. It's stated to be an artificial means of making a psycofield though, so it may have limitations a normal one wouldn't or something. Who knows. The memories of the universe Frontal and Banagher see is a result of a different psycofield that the directors confirmed was activated by the resonance of the Neo Zeong and Unicorn though.
The arms waving thing is because of Marida's talk with Banagher and him becoming one with the universe. Again, it's directly stated this is the cause by the people making it, not anything to do with the NT-D or even a psycofield.
>>14453588
Those hardly constitute characters, and are more like footnotes. Its simple to see if they're relevant
>Are they a pilot or captain?
>Do they have a speaking line anywhere in any material?
>>14453588
There's also Cherie Allison from 0081, who was a Zeon Spy that ended up saving Hughes life betraying a fellow Zeon spy and killing her brother in the process.
Didn't she end up surviving in the manga?
>>14453569
Uso isn't a Fed.
>>14453510
Fred didin't even really defect in the normal sense; he and his team were marked for death. Compared to the rest of his team, he's kind of a spiteful brat, so instead of going into hiding, he joined the remnants.
>>14453613
I think Usso counts, since if I remember right the League Militaire gets integrated into the army proper at the end.
>>14453607
Zeon women who defect to the side of justice and slay their twisted Zeonic Siblings are pretty top tier.
>>14451179
NT-D doesnt do all that shit. That's the psychoframe. NT-D just detects newtypes and switches on the destroy mode to combat the newtype, that most of the time are better pilots. Also it has a program that hacks the opponents funnels.
>>14453596
You could probably count Marida and Zinnerman as well really. Maybe Mineva too.
>>14453638
Zinnerman's entire ship rejected Frontal's plan and defected to the Nahel Argama, but I can't really see them joining the Federation, especially given the circumstances.
>>14453607
>>14453627
Never trust whores, no matter what side they're on.
>>14453401
>Implying Japan committed any 'crimes against humanity' when in Korea and China.
>>14453627
Image unrelated
>>14453596
>these game changing players in UC are less important than some brat that left to chill with Zeon Remnants because he was falsely marked for treason anyway
>>14451270
Imagine how sad and disappointed that pilot must've been, waited like ten years for this moment only for that to happen.
"I even built a giant ass wall in front of it so it can make a really cool exit, you know how long that took!?"
>>14453486
The fuck kind of name is Bork Cry, did his parents hate him?
>>14453510
Can you explain to me what happened near the end of the feddie's storyline? With that other GM team and the random medea full of gold bars?
Who were those guys? What's with the gold? The fuck?
>>14453932
Probably more of M'Quve's gold.
>>14451407
Actually, only Izubuchi treated them like retcons to the original designs in his MS Era book. The United Maintenance plan was mentioned in the Gunpla manuals from day one, meaning according to Bandai and Sunrise, they were simply streamlined variants from the beginning.
>>14453510
You know it's funny, I once said that Missing Link was kind of like Bad Company, but played straight instead of parodying with mobile suits and with a dumb story.
Oh well. At least it had some baller ass designs.
>>14453999
>instead of parodying Military FPSs
>>14453999
slave wraith is sexy. too bad it didn't get an HG, it would have been an easy build.
>>14453695
are you implying they didnt
>>14454029
Didn't what?
>>14453519
>the moment it was formed.
The Zeon military was formed years before 0079, you retard.
They even have an OVA detailing their history, you have no excuse to not know that.
>>14453171
>Because he gave them the Shamblo in the OVA
Where does it say that?
There's the one scene where Kirks thanks FF for the Zee Zulu's but that's all I'm finding.
>>14453125
>He survives the Torrington assault
Coooooool
>>14453125
>before being hunted down by Byarlant custom units 1 and 2.
Nn-noo....
>>14453125
>He survives the Torrington assault and retreats with the survivors, who end up fighting each other because turns out they're not the most mentally stable bunch before being hunted down by Byarlant custom units 1 and 2.
Sounds like yet another typical Feddie wank that we expect from Unicorn and it's side stories.
This feels like the right thread to say that Late UC feels like an AU.
how come no one from AE was prosecuted for war crimes
char was a psychopath sure but AE are the true villains of the UC
also char was 100% right
>>14454494
This feels like the right thread to say that you're wrong and a faggot.
>>14454257
Don't worry, he lives.
Byarlant guys let them get away for some reason. I think because the 'good' remnants helped them beat the 'bad' remnants or something, from what I remember skimming through the manga.
>>14451119
>>14451179
>>14451215
http://pastebin.com/Da268nax
>>14454263
>waaah there's wank about the PROTAGONISTS of the series
is this a fucking joke?
almost every UC series paints the feddies in a positive light. even with its flaws it's still far better than ANY zeon "ideal"
>>14451119
>its an OC donut steel ninja holdover prototype Zeon MS episode
Fucking hate the Efreet so much.
>>14454720
The protagonists of Unicorn are Banagher and Mineva. Every other faction is one or two kinds of stupid.As it should be.
>>14454511
>Feds let Zeon terrorist scum go because they're impressed by Muh Noble Zeon Honor
>this despite the fact that the Remnants rampage has killed dozens of their comrades and slaughtered hundreds or thousands of civilians, some of whom could be their friends and family.
Looks pretty much like Zeon wanking to me.
>Zeon did nothing wrong guys, mass murdering civilians and bystanders is totally okay!
>>14455066
They were just letting off some steam, anon.
>>14455074
Mighty Zeonic oppressors letting off steam by killing defenseless women and babies?
>>14454511
>>14454511
yeah man its cool you slaughtered our comrades, later
>>14455086
They're not considered human if they're peripherally related to the military.
>>14454747
I hate 90% of Zeon's MS designs. Where do they even get these fucking resources in 1 fucking year? It took Hitler 7 years to get his huge variety of tanks and planes.
>>14455032
Yeah, it.. kinda did feel like Zeon Wank. I don't read moon but the gist I got from looking at the pictures was that the byarlant pilots were pretty much saying, "Hey, you guys are terrorist zeek scum but we saw you fighting other terrorist zeek scum, so that means you CAN'T be bad even though we know nothing of what was going on!"
>>14455090
That's pretty much what it was like.
I remember seeing the scans on imgur, I took it off my bookmarks a while back but keep an eye on it out there if you're curious about it.
>>14455098
t. Ghiren
>>14454761
>Every other faction is one or two kinds of stupid.
>let's release this thing that could destroy the federation and start yet another zeon war!
>>14455266
B-but Sore Demo!
>>14453595
>>14453634
Let me put it this way, NT-D isn't directly responsible for the metaphysical abilities, but because it exposes the psycoframe (and kicks in the mental control), it allows those abilities to be used. Neo Zeong also has strong metaphysical abilities because it deployed and exposed its psycoframe parts. Neither machine could perform those feats if the psycoframe material wasn't exposed and allowed to fully resonate/glow.
>>14455266
On the flip side
>Lets allow Neo Zeon to exist in spite of knowing EXACTLY where they're hiding reside because it helps fund our military industrial complex that lets us fight Zeon!
I'm pro federation but I cannot deny that they dig their own graves every opportunity they get.
>>14455115
I don't remember much from it but IIRC they broke off because the remnants just helped them fight their own allies, so they decide there's more to the situation than they realized and with merely two Byarlants, they don't have the resources to fight the rest alone anyway, so they just end up letting them go.
>>14455396
>merely two Byarlants
A single more lightly armed Byarlant Custom took out the following:
>2 Zaku Mariners
>1 Capule
>1 Z'Gok
>1 Zo'Gok
>2 Zee Zulus
>1 Desert Gelgoog
>1 Marasai
Those are the explicit on screen kills, there's a few kills off screen too (another Zee Zulu, a Galluss J, and a Zaku Cannon) considering the scene transitions.
>>14455440
Yes, and aformentioned battle, where he expends extravagant amounts of fuel and energy for his beam weapons, happens almost directly before said hunt for remnants.
You don't engage truckloads of ISIS wackjobs with two magazines each soldier. Reber's band just fucking helped them shank a bunch of their own when the odds were far against you. Sometimes, you just don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
>>14454189
>Origin
>remotely canon
baka desu senpai
>>14455639
It's animated. It's literally indisputably canon.
>>14455587
Aren't those things supposed to shock the enemy MS/pilot on contact?
>>14455660
So evolve is part of the mainline UC continuity too?
>>14455383
I agree it's stupid, but remember that the 'Federation keeps Neo Zeon around' is another one of Unicorn's 'let's make the Feddies look as eveil as possible while painting Zeon as poor tragic, misunderstood victims' retcons. It really doesn't jive at all with the Federation in CCA where Paraya outright states that now that they achieved peace in our time with Char they can start disbanding the useless military.
>>14455661
In the Zeta timeline, yes. Since then electronic shielding and parts isolation has advanced to the point that only direct cockpit contact would do that. You see that the arm that wa shocked becomes useless while the other one is aokay.
Yet when Yazan used it on Kamille the Zeta Gundam got paralyzed.
>>14455695
>Yet when Yazan used it on Kamille the Zeta Gundam got paralyzed.
That's cause Yazan paralyzes people with fear.
![[OZC]Gundam Reconguista in G E16 'Bellri's War' [1080p].mkv_snapshot_18.04_[2016.07.06_00.54.47].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/xGgqyiX.jpg "[OZC]Gundam Reconguista in G E16 'Bellri's War' [1080p].mkv snapshot 18.04 [2016.07.06 00.54.47]")
>>14455702
Progression of technology
>OYW: forces MS to blow their fuses and reset their system
>Gryps Conflict: stuns the entire MS
>UC 96: stuns MS partially
>G-Reco: no effect
>>14455669
Yes. Is this a trick question?
>>14455287
Let me put it to you this way, neither the Number Gundam or the Sazabi could or had to expose their psycoframe to do anything. And neither had an NT-D. The psycoframe is also not responsible in any level for the arm waving thing at the nd - Banger himself, along with Marida is. Putting that down to the NT-D, because you think it helps the psycoframe is baseless when the psycoframe has nothing to do with it. The psycoframe grew as a result, but that was an effect of what he did, not a cause.
>>14455669
Evolve has been explicitly stated by Sunrise, alongside video game cutscenes, as questionably canon material depending on the episode in question. The episodes pepper the grey area very .
Origin, on the other hand, is 100% canon. It's endorsed by Sunrise in it's entirety, even the retcons.
>>14455694
> I agree it's stupid, but remember that the 'Federation keeps Neo Zeon around' is another one of Unicorn's 'let's make the Feddies look as eveil as possible while painting Zeon as poor tragic, misunderstood victims' retcons.
I don't recall that being stated. Care to elaborate?
>>14453627
Inb4 A.r.
>>14455694
Most Zeons are as much a victim of the Zabis as they are the Feds. Yeah sure they gassed colonies and did derp shit as a faction, but most of the regular folk just believe they are fighting for a better life outside of oppression.
>>14453999
>>14454026
Seeing a Gundam face in that helmet looks so weird. But I like it.
>>14456161
It's standard PsyOps work. The Gundam, and I mean the RX-78-2 as piloted by Amuro, has become synonymous with death to Zeons. It's only logical that you would give your best suits Gundam faces to remind any Zeeks what they're facing.
>>14453401
T. Kim Kapwhan
>>14455587
Two machines piloted by Jerid fighting each other
>>14455938
Mineva mentions the 'Evil Federation keep Zeon around as a scapegoat' conspiracy nonsense in Episode 2 when talking to Riddhe. It's also heavily implied that that's the reason why ECOAS knows so much about Palau and can infiltrate it easily.
>>14456104
If you're talking about the people of Side 3 then I agree with you. If you're talking about those shits in Palau who still worship the Zabis and are raising their kids to be the next generation of Zeon Terrorist Scum, then no, fuck them. And fuck Unicorn for trying to make those fuckers look like tragic misunderstood freedom fighters.
>>14454761
Banagher is stupid too
>>14455098
Thats not a moral justification.
>>14455694
I'm so sick of everything about Unicorn, its so stupid.
>>14451597
It's apparently a crashed Pegasus that was abandoned. Named the White Wolf or something Wolf. I assume it was just left to rot, and Remnants just decided to squat in it. Might even be an homage to how the main group squats in a Feddie ship inside a colony in F91?
>>14455103
>Where do they even get these fucking resources in 1 fucking year?
Strip mining Earth's Odessa region and elsewhere.
>It took Hitler 7 years to get his huge variety of tanks and planes.
How does the Federation do the same thing with the GM platform before the end of the OYW?
P-51 Mustang
>The prototype NA-73X airframe was rolled out on 9 September 1940, 102 days after the contract was signed and first flew on 26 October.
This was done before computers began to impact vehicle design. That both the Federation and Zeon manage it on a regular basis should be an indicator that they've got people and machinery that can work fast.
>>14453607
As far as raws go, Cherie escaped from her arrest, stole an MS or MA I forget which, betrayed a fellow Zeon spy, and turned on her former lover's family member or something (think it was the leader of the remnants who makes off with an Efreet). Before going over the cliff taking down another Zeon MS and telling her commander something like she regrets falling in love with him, as there's no place for people like her as she falls.
That was the last of the raws I ran across.
>>14455694
>retcon
Stop using that word. You have no concept of what it actually means.
>>14455926
When everything is canon, nothing is.
The Zaku II's weaponry in the first episode is proof on its own that Origin cannot coexist with the original show, and is not canon.
>>14457221
Oh please, they've been adding Mass Production-type Gundams and retconning in GM variants where they were not present before since the fucking 90's, and the thing that makes you look askew is an errant shell firing weapon and an extra pair of gatling guns?
Besides, it's not like Banrise is a stranger to taking occasional liberties if they want to sell new Gunpla. Get ready, because there's a good chance the RX-78-02 is likely going to start becoming the defacto interpretation of the Gundam, and it's cameos in various side story mangas are going to have it holding an upside down shield.
Not to mention MSD makes a pretty considerable effort to tie the Origin OVA into UC proper.
Remove RX-79s, the only mass produced Gundams should be Victory Gundams.
>>14456376
>And fuck Unicorn for trying to make those fuckers look like tragic misunderstood freedom fighters.
Is that why Banagher rejected their worldview wholesale? Marida's the one that tried to paint them as misunderstood oppressed warriors, and Banagher didn't take one word of it to heart.
The whole point of Unicorn is NOT looking towards ideals of someone else for a better future.
>>14457316
Sunrise's stance is that there are different continuities that are effectively different records of history. The MSG TV and movies are different continuities and Origin is completely different from them too. IIRC one of the studio execs likened it to history books having different records of events.
>>14457221
>When everything is canon
Welcome to Gundam, faggot, where both the series and movie trilogy can be interpreted as canon, Gundam Wing TV and EW designs are both 100% acceptable as canon and the GoL manga, for some reason, is not, and the RX-78 changes it's look every few years.
Gundam loves to change shit around for shits and giggles. Get used to it, loser. The Japanese don't even bat an eyelid at it and neither should you.
>>14457421
>Welcome to Gundam, faggot, where both the series and movie trilogy can be interpreted as canon, Gundam Wing TV and EW designs are both 100% acceptable as canon and the GoL manga, for some reason, is not, and the RX-78 changes it's look every few years.
TV and EW designs are literally a retcon. Katoki's designs take precedence over Okie's. GoL, even if it is Sunrise sanctioned, is a manga written and distributed outside of Sunrise.
Also, white, gray, and black aren't even explicit categories. The Sunrise exec who described the "official" status of certain works basically said Sunrise internally considers only their own works official but also said fans have different interpretations of history and even the creators (like Tomino) do, so who's to say what's truly official. Gray area is just permission to use headcanon with a lot of the side material like SW's EU fan canon.
>>14457416
Sunrise has never, ever given an actual stance on canon. A Sunrise has said what HE personally endorses back in the mid-2000's, but Sunrise in general, much like the Japanese, doesn't really give a shit.
Be that as it may; Origin is 100% the history of Universal Century Gundam now, whereas before it may have been a bit of a crapshoot. It goes into brutal detail about the origins of Zeon, and Casval, and the Zabis. Even if there's a cavalcade of retards from /m/ that'll scream "ALTERNATE UC," from now on, it will be the reference for the pre-OYW history of UC for everyone, internally at Sunrise and externally with the fanbase. Tying to split it into a separate continuity is a laughable effort, because it's going to be the version of events that everyone knows and remembers now.
>>14457528
>A Sunrise exec has said
>>14456313
>>14455694
That's not evil; That's just clever politics. The sleeves practically funded the entire UC project and their own assured downfall.
Besides, this is the same government that allowed Haman to drop a colony simply because would help deal with their overpopulation problem, and this is a Tomino work back from 1986. Then using The Sleeves continued presence to secure funding for the EFSF is actually one of the tamer sins the Federation has under it's belt. The idea that the Federation being run by run by mostly bad or corrupt people is an invention of Fukui or other modern Gundam writers seems to be a common misconception around here; they've been dickwads in canon since before half of you were even born.
>>14458654
The Federation used a backdoor deal to try and placate Zeon and avoid having to deal with them in CCA too. Even in Zeta, the Titans were willing to work with Axis Zeon to deal with their problems, which is just another backdoor deal at the end of the day. The Titans eventually became seperate from the Earth Federation, but they arose out of them and were essentially just a symbol of Federation corruption allowed to run rampant. It's only really in 0079 that they were really at loggerheads with Zeon, and even then they wanted to give up and negotiate peace at one point - until Revil convinced them otherwise.
>>14453528
>and a pair of absolute sues as its leading male and leading female characters.
Try getting less than 50 points in this thing. I dare you: http://marysuelitmustest.yolasite.com/
>>14453607
Are there any working DDLs or torrents for Volume 3 and Volume 4 of 0081 Gundam Senki?
Only the translated Volumes 1 and 2 still have functioning DDLs.
>>14459117
I tried to do Amuro and got like a fifth of the way down and realized that this is too autistic, even for me.
>>14459125
> I want to entrust you to support my back
What the hell shit translation is that?
>>14459203
He must have back problems
Oh boy this again.
>>14455440
>The remnants use a bunch of ancient mobile suits to take down the base defenders using the element of surprise and good coordination.
>A single mobile suit with modernized tech solos all the suits listed, who all magically forget how to coordinate attacks and how to aim.
And people still call Unicorn a Zeon wank why? I mean all the grunt on grunt battles always end with the Zeon grunts being stomped even if a few of them get the upper hand early on.
>>14457528
If the Japanese don't care about canon as you claim, why are you so adamant about having people accept your extremely flawed interpretation of what said Sunrise official said?
Regardless, and to correct all the misinformation flowing around this thread, the Sunrise official n question talked about how there are different levels of canon. Which can be defined as black, white and gray. Black means it's not canon, White means it is canon, Gray is where it's not considered canon, but at the same time it's still recognized as existing. In this case, novels and mangas are not recognized as canon, Movies are recognize as canon (Because he specifically uses the word 'Film',where unless you want to twist things into tiny little knots, means movies.), and the gray is everything that is animated. This includes things like animated segments for video games, Evolve, Ring of Gundam, and so on. The big thing to realize is there can only be one timeline that can be considered 'canon' due to all the contradictions that occur if you try to combine everything, might work for the black hole theory for Turn A, not so much when you have multiple retelling of the same events Hence why you see the clash between the Movie and TV versions of a show and they made a specific point to say 'film' takes priority.
Trying to say Origin is part of canon, and not just officially recognized is like shoving a round peg into a square hole, to many inconsistencies with the film version of MGS for it to work.
So it boils down to if something is animated, but does not conflict with the established canon, or something isn't done where it is the new canon version. It's part of the canon timeline, if it is retconned or contradicts the canon timeline, it is not canon, however is still considered an official work.
Movie versions of events are the canon timeline, along with any animated OVA that do not contradict it.
The three other timelines are the TV versions, Origin and Thunderbolt due to the fact they all have contradictions to the movies.
Just remember, while they aren't canon, they are still considered official, and ergo exist for the sake of still selling merchandise.
Not that hard to follow.
>>14459454
>>14459472
And what does Origin contradict, exactly?
Oh right. -Nothing-.
>>14459472
I hope you're not suggesting G-Saviour is canon.
>>14459454
>>14459472
The Origin Manga is Yas UC.
The OVA is proper UC with minor retcons.
This was established LONG ago. Pay attention, you vapid cunt.
>>14459454
>If the Japanese don't care about canon as you claim, why are you so adamant about having people accept your extremely flawed interpretation of what said Sunrise official said?
I could say the exact same to you, Mr. Movie Timeline.
>>14459454
>>14459472
>It's a Black Knight tries to put in his two cents thread.
You know, if you had left your trip off, we might have taken a word of that seriously. You'd still be wrong, but we'd give it an errant thought, at least.
>>14459454
>>14459472
>rarely come to /m/
>even i know black knight is full of shit
Off yourself already.
>>14459539
>>14459546
>>14459556
>>14459563
>>14459574
I'm confused. Who is Black Knight and why is he posting with a trip?
>>14459588
He's an idiot that thinks G-Saviour would ever be considered canon. That's about all I know.
>>14459588
A faggot, that's who.
>>14459588
Someone that cherry picks out things that support his view on various matters, while drowning out evidence to the contrary. He does this for both in-universe matters and on matters of what is considered canon.
For example, IIRC, he claims CCA and Unicorn are non canon because the New Translation Zeta movies retcon them.
>>14459539
>>14459546
>>14459556
>>14459563
>>14459620
Mobile suit development, Mobile suit and ship designs, Sasro Zabi's existence, how the Battle of Loum proceeded (compared to MS IGLOO), The Zaku II weaponry where it had built in vulcan cannons and a sniper rifle (The giant heat hawk gets a pass because it was established that Dozel used one.) to start off with a few. I'm not saying G-Saviour is canon, nor was it implied it was because it fails one of the two checks, it's not considered to be animated due to the live action segments and the fact that Sunrise doesn't consider it canon, or even official, it just exists. Of course that won't stop people from trying to say I am saying that because they have nothing better to do. Yaz UC is the Origin timeline, movies are the proper UC where OVAs are also considered canon unless they contradict themLike Unicorn which funny enough did get a TV version to cement itself into the TV Timeline. I'm not the one saying Japan doesn't care about canon, if they didn't, they wouldn't have made a statement saying that anything animated is considered official with movies being the top dog on canon. And here's another lie, A New Translation only retcons ZZ and Unicorn. There is nothing in A New Translation that contradicts CCA, even after the endless amount of hair splitting people like you attempted to do.
>>14459634
>Gundam adding in things that weren't there in previous series.
This has never happened before. Never.
>>14459634
>I'm not saying G-Saviour is canon
>Movies are recognize as canon (Because he specifically uses the word 'Film'
>the gray is everything that is animated
G-Saviour is a film. You said nowhere it needed to be animated to be a film.
>>14459634
>anything animated is considered official with movies being the top dog on canon.
>movies being the top dog on canon.
This is incorrect.
Filmed works refers to an animated work produced by Sunrise. The text in question does not refer to an actual "film" format.
>>14459649
>>14459652
>>14459682
Did 08th MS Team contradict anything in MGS though more than people crying about their flawed assumption that Odessa was won with tanks and guile only? Origin doesn't work because the V Project specifically states the Federation only undertook mobile suit development after the the start of the One Year War Origin contradicts that b merit of the existence of the Guntank and Guncannon. Also if the Federation already developed mobile suits before the war, they could have also utilized the movement data from those suits and the learning computer wouldn't have been the massive game changer for Feddie Pilots that it was. It's good to know you have zero reading comprehension as well, either intentional to be dishonest, or to be incompetent. I already mentioned that being animated was one of the major parts of being considered even official. Hence, why manga versions aren't normally accepted. But please, continue to distort what I said since you don't have any meaning rebuttal. Brilliant counter argument, 'But you're wrong' when faced with solid facts.Unless you want to start nit picking about how Film doesn't mean movies and it's some mis-translation into English again, that went smashing the first 10 times that was tried.
>>14459620
>Someone that cherry picks out things that support his view on various matters, while drowning out evidence to the contrary.
This, really. Here is an example from his post: Because he specifically uses the word 'Film',where unless you want to twist things into tiny little knots, means movies. It's been pointed out multiple times in previous threads by people who actually know Japanese or who consulted with people who do that 'film' in the context of that statement referred to 'filmed' and not 'movies' (of which Japanese has its own word for). He responded by saying that machine translation is more 'accurate' and 'unbiased' (how the hell a uninvolved 3rd party could be biased against him I haven o fucking idea) and keep repeating this shit as if it were undisputable fact.
He;s really just a dishonest little shit and the best way to deal with him is to ignore him and warn newfags not to take any of the shit he spouts seriously.
>>14459698
>Hence, why manga versions aren't normally accepted.
Just show us where Sunrise said it. Oh wait, you can't, because you threw that out the window when you changed your stance from "animated = canon" (in order to use Anime Ja Nai as an excuse to consider ZZ non-canon, which you claimed the interviewers must have specifically used that wording to retroactively remove ZZ from the timeline) and then when I told you the real translation, you twisted "on film i.e. in video format = canon" to "movies = canon" because "machine translations are unbiased". I'd also like to remind you that it was a Capule in the G-Reco museum, which means ZZ is canonically recognized in the timeline. It wasn't animation error or "stylistic choice" as you claimed.
> Brilliant counter argument, 'But you're wrong' when faced with solid facts. Unless you want to start nit picking about how Film doesn't mean movies and it's some mis-translation into English again, that went smashing the first 10 times that was tried.
Repeating your lies while ignoring facts doesn't make it true, which is unfortunate for Zeon because you might've cleared them for innocence by now.
>>14459729
Quick addition: the interview in question has no bearing on actual canonicity, it was talking about which MOBILE SUITS are considered official and which are not. Nothing to do with the series or timelines themselves.
>>14459634
>Mobile suit development
Which has never actually had a concrete history till Origin, merely text blurbs in Master grade manuals and dubiously official timeline dates.
>Sasro Zabi's existence
This isn't a contradiction, he was just never mentioned before because he's been dead for a decade when the OYW started. He's a footnote in history at best.
>Mobile suit and ship designs
Actually, none of these have changed much at all. Even the Origin version of the Zaku II has reverted to it's classic appearance.
>but Char's Zaku has chest gatlings and a new rifle!
Big fucking deal. That's actually pretty tame as far as Gundam retcons go. You could even just say the chest gatlings were removed come September 0079.
>how the Battle of Loum proceeded (compared to MS IGLOO)
Actually, it happened more or less the same way. Only thing they changed was giving Char some extra weapons.
>Origin doesn't work because the V Project specifically states the Federation only undertook mobile suit development after the the start of the One Year War Origin contradicts that b merit of the existence of the Guntank and Guncannon.
The RX project and the V Project are not the same thing. One is the development of Federation mobile suits, and the other is the effort to actually make them practical on the field of battle with weapons and an assault carrier to deploy them.
To Quote Mark Simmons;
>The RX Project, which began in U.C. 0078, was rolled into Operation V one year later. The Vinson Plan refers specifically to the rebuilding of the Federation's conventional space fleet. Operation V, which was carried out in parallel to the Vinson Plan, was devoted to creating new mobile suits and carrier ships like the Pegasus class.
>>14459698
>Did 08th MS Team contradict anything in MGS
Not much other than
>RX-79[G]
>RGM-79[G]
>RGM-79[G] Sniper
>Apsalus
It just added more to the Gundam universe. Like previous series like 0080,0083 etc all the redesigns were retconned and made into variants to sell more toys.
>>14459800
There weren't any redesigns ever. Izubuchi wanted the 0080 designs to be retcons in his own art without taking the future of the series into consequence. In the show, and in all other OVAs, they have always been new designs. Shit, sometimes they show new designs next to old ones.
>>14459810
I thought they did the whole retcon thing during early 2000s where everything was a variant now.
If not. I stand corrected.
>>14459698
>Origin doesn't work because the V Project specifically states the Federation only undertook mobile suit development after the the start of the One Year War Origin contradicts that b merit of the existence of the Guntank and Guncannon.
Guntank in Origin OVA is actually a new design separate from the manga, changed to separate it from the actual RX-75.
As for the other two...
http://www.ultimatemark.com/gundam/timeline.php
>U.C. 0078.03
>The Federation Forces launch a secret mobile suit development program. Several projects are begun simultaneously as part of the RX Project.
And what do you know? Origin IV takes place in late 0078. How about that?
>>14459815
Nope. The Gunpla manuals for 0080 back when it aired specifically mention them to be newer models. Only person that has ever presented them as mere redesigns was Izubuchi in his MS Era book.
>>14459592
>>14459596
>>14459717
>>14459739
In that case, I'm glad he's getting BTFO. Posting with a trip outside of it's actual function should be a bannable offense.
>>14459834
Diff. anon here.
Origin is just a "retelling" of MGS with backstory.It does it's best to string all the pieces together with minor adjustments to the chronology of things.
Don't think too hard over it.
>>14459836
Ok.
>Only person that has ever presented them as mere redesigns was Izubuchi in his MS Era book.
Which page specifically? I've read it multiple times. I don't recall anything that explicitly or implicitly presents that.
Imma read it again, since you brought it up.
>>14459849
>Which page specifically? I've read it multiple times. I don't recall anything that explicitly or implicitly presents that.
All do them. It's pretty obvious in the ones where the MS-06FZ is seen in the early months of the OYW
>>14459844
On one hand, no snapshit or blacked_knight. On the other, no dorkly.
Is it worth the price, /m/?
>>14459844
Don't worry, he'll post a wall of text that doesn't atually rebut anything. Just wait and see. I'll check back in 16 hours or so.
>>14459844
>Posting as Black_Knight should be a bannable offense.
FTFY
>>14459950
That's legitimately a tough call
>>14459992
no it's not, I would never ban dorkly and you should be ashamed for being too pussy to deal with a couple of awful trips
>>14459950
Isn't Dorkly the guy that used to post North Korean newspaper articles with mecha images?
What ever happened to that trend.
>>14460009
He still does. Are you blind or just retarded?
>>14459844
No, you want them to post under their trips. Said trips immediately let you know whether or not to take the content of their posts seriously.
>>14460014
I guess I'm just never around for it. :(
>>14460022
there was a thread just a couple of hours ago
>>14460058
>>14460062
you guys are cool
>>14459125
>that ass
My lord, Zeon has some nice women.
>>14459698
Well then go show where in >>14459454 or >>14459472 where you said that if it has live action it can't be canon, unless you moved the goalposts like some Feddie over at >>14459634.
> Wake up and see dozens of new replies
> Cool, must be some interesting discussion
> It's just Black_Knight and the usual shit
I think I might make a Black_Knight bingo card to help make these things more fun. I wonder what I'd fill it with.
>>14451119
Zeon wank knows no logic
>>14460790
Here's some suggestions to get you started:
- Zeon did nothing wrong
- The One Week Battle is entirely justified otherwise Zeon would have to do more work
- Genocide is an acceptable form of population control
- ZZ isn't canon
- Only movies are canon
- Machine translations are true, pure and unbiased
- Thinking everyone he replies to is the same anon
- Ignore evidence that discredits his points
>>14459834
>>14459795
In addition to that, the claim that the battle with the RX-78-2 in side 7 is the first mobile suit battle in history is a claim that originated from Entertainment Bible, IIRC which is full of wonky-ass information like heavily bloated production numbers. Sunrise has always treated the Entertainment Bibles as a pick and choose your history-type of deal, where they take the parts they like and ignore the parts they'd rather portray differently (like Operation British and Loum.)
>Black_Knight butts in a thread pretending to be knowledgable.
>promptly gets BTFO by people that actually know what they're talking about.
Every time. Like clockwork.
>>14463965
To be fair, Black_Knight's not NOT knowedgable, he just uses whatever information he can from whatever sources he can muster and omits what he doesn't like to arrive at his own headcanon that he will insist is correct to anyone that tells him he's a fucking fruit loop.
>>14461931
How about these
-unnecessary spoiler tags
-he calls someone's argument dishonest or deliberately misleading
-derailing one argument into another famous shitposting topic of his
-starts replying to multiple people en masse rather than individual replies
-his Loum headcanon
>>14461931
>otherwise Zeon would have to do more work
I wouldn't call it justified, but that's not wrong. They didn't nearly have the forces to annex every other colony from the federation, so they just destroyed them.
...which I guess makes it okay.
>>14459717
>>14459729
>>14459739
>>14459795
>>14459800
>>14459834
Oh neo /m/, responses like clockwork, I would say 'just filter if you get so upset', but you clearly need me to burst your bubbles.I digress. First, you make the flawed assumption that your interpretation of how to translate is the correct one because of your personal bias. This is easily seen in your attempts to push the idea that what was said was 'filmed' which creates enough vagueness to allow you to claim that it doesn't have to mean film. Further more you claim this is backed up from some third party, which was an anonymous post on 4chan. Because if there's one legitimate source of information, it's an anonymous reply to a question to ask. You can decry the use of a machine to translate, but the one thing you can't say is that it is biased unless you want to go tin foil and say it was programmed intentionally to give bad results. Furthermore the interview went to imply that Sunrise animation studio gets to say what is and isn't official and/or canon. If you go by animated, it allows for the interpretation that Tomino saying 'it's not anime' for ZZ to be applied. Was it intentional in the long run? We won't know unless he makes a comment on it. Furthermore it was Kapool in the museum, although if the G-Reco movies get released, we'll see if that scene is even included. Finally the interview was about mobile suits originally, but pivoted to what Sunrise considers canon as a whole, so you cannot say that it applies strictly to mobile suits. So the fact you have no clear evidence to back up your claim even if you go by your version of translation. (Even before you try to counter that by putting words into my mouth by implying I'm going 'nu huh!') We now have the fact you're intentionally distorting the source article in an attempt to invalidate it by implying it was about mobile suits only.Origin contradicts the designs of the Zeon mobile suits where the MS-04 of the prime canon, is MS-03 in Origin.
You'd need a official statement similar to what sunrise did with 0080 for that inconsistency. The fact he is never mentioned, or his death used for political purposes during the build up of the war, or even mentioned by Dozel after Garma was killed since he now lost both of his brothers, while all possible, would be uncharacteristic. Similar, but not the same because of thruster placement and weaponry in terms of the Zaku I and II. That's not even getting into the the tweeking of the Zeon ships. 'big deal'? Is that how you're going to brush off blatant contradictions now? The Zaku II MS-06S having a vulcan cannons in its chest is a huge change up, let alone the sniper rifle that can destroy a Federation capital ship in one or two shots. Or the 240mm Bazooka being magazine fed with extra mags being placed on the shields. Or the question of if Zeon fielded MS-06R-A1s at the Battle of Loum when current information says they weren't rolled out until the summer. Or the date of the battle itself where it took place on the 15th of January while the Origin timeline has the battle occur on the 23rd. Also before you say otherwise, the date was marked in MS IGLOO. Speaking of which, the battle unfounded rather differently because you had the ships fighting straight upon as opposed to broadside and the Zeon fleet took much more damage. You seem to mix up the development of Feddie Mobile Suits and deployment. If Origin is part of the main timeline, they would have mentioned and more than likely used the original Guntank and Guncannons for base defenses. Due to the precedent of the Feddies using decade old technology if it still works and not caring if they were limited production models or failed models.
Oh boy, more newfags think they know how 4chan works and make demands to have poster IDs, or even more hypocritical, Poster IDs for everyone they don't like while circle jerking. Plus, you make it sound like I'll get banned. Problem there is I follow the rules. Nice try.
>>14465744
>>14465753
There he is! Thank you! I was afraid this thread would die before BK could continue being an ass.
Gonna wait for the incoming BTFO
>>14465744
Yakkity yak yak yak usual Black_Knight nonsense...gonna skip to the par that actually contributes to a debate
>Finally the interview was about mobile suits originally, but pivoted to what Sunrise considers canon as a whole, so you cannot say that it applies strictly to mobile suits.
Actually, that's not an interview, it's from a exerpt from Dengenki hobby involving Sunrise officials to discuss "original mobile suits" from vidya and manga, so yes, the original source in question DID apply to what MS Sunrise considers "Official." Said officiality applies to what is animated, since said animation is supervised by Sunrise. That means yes, Thunderbolt is canon. As is Origin. Also, the MS featured within are canon. This also means whatever MS featured in whatever previous sources before that WEREN'T in, say, Origin, are invalidated.
On another note, Sunrise is no stranger to taking artistic license from work to work if it means more Gunpla sales, which ties into the next point.
>You'd need a official statement similar to what sunrise did with 0080 for that inconsistency.
Sunrise never needed an official statement on the 0080 designs. They've ALWAYS been variations. Izubuchi just had a different idea for his own designs for his MS Era, and Sunrise didn't care.
>That's not even getting into the the tweeking of the Zeon blah blah character limit
This is Gundam. They do this shit whenever it benefits them, Endless Waltz being the most telling example. Gundam is no stranger to inconsistencies from one interpretation of a mobile suit to another depending on the work in question. In fact, this is often done to sell more Gunpla. The RX-78-2 alone has numerous versions released via Gunpla that contradict one another, but it doesn't matter; the "gundam" is considered official, and Sunrise is free to use whichever design they so choose. On that note, IIRC the Gundam has NEVER actually been referred to as the RX-78-"2" in animation, so they can do whatever they want.
>>14465759
I enjoy seeing people like BK engage in Autism rage because they are passionate fucking nerds who don't seem to want to understand that the franchise owner can do whatever the fuck they want.
>>14465753
>If Origin is part of the main timeline, they would have mentioned and more than likely used the original Guntank and Guncannons for base defenses.
There's a good chance that if the Origin OVA continues to be successful, you might actually see this happen (though the RX-77-01 Guncannon not so much; that thing was a piece of shit and it was specifically meant for Space Combat anyway)
>>14465832
>On that note, IIRC the Gundam has NEVER actually been referred to as the RX-78-"2" in animation
I don't think it'd ever actually been referred to as the "RX-78"
>>14465753
>You seem to mix up the development of Feddie Mobile Suits and deployment.
No we're not. The RX project started in early 0078. The V Project started in 0079. They are not the same thing.
This is old news.
>>14453675
Oh look its this shit again
>>14453401
>Also the Jap fanbase seem to really love self-inserting as Zeon
They seem to love them as villains, actually, in the same fashion as Sith are more popular than Jedi.
They're more fun, so they get to be cooler more often than not.
>>14465879
>They seem to love them as villains, actually
Then why do the Japs keep trying to rewrite UC history to say that they were the misunderstood good guys all along and completely justified?
>>14459950
Dorkly doesn't use a trip though.
>>14466075
They...don't? Can't think of a single series that really paints them in a positive light.
>>14466075
Because you're a retard who's been drinking to much from the coolaid of memes in /m/.
>>14466544
MS IGLOO. Unicorn and the Laplace Box. Shin Matsunaga MSV. Missing Link.
>>14466675
>MS IGLOO
Engineer trying to make it through the war alive and also serve his country even as it shits on him and group throughout the entire war.
>Unicorn and the Laplace Box
Ends with the refutation of every faction of Zeon and Late UC making the Laplace Box meaningless.
>Shin Matsunaga MSV and Missing Link
Where?
>>14458654
Except they like to avoid fighting when possible.
>>14466675
>>MS IGLOO
MS IgLoo actually did a lot to make Zeon look like a downright atrocious army to work for. Not sure what it did to make them seem righteous.
They didn't make the Federation look good in comparison, but the Federation's never been angels either. At least they've got their shit together in MS IgLoo.
>Unicorn and the Laplace Box.
The whole point of the Box was to illustrate how radicals will rally behind whatever they feel like to justify their involvement in atrocities. Mineva's whole speech while revealing it was about how Zeon and the Federation should stop being a bunch of assholes and try to build a better future.
>Shin Matsunaga MSV. Missing Link.
Those two definitely count, but aren't really animated and thus their status as canon is considered questionable, especially in comparison to modern interpretations of things like Loum, where the Federation is never seen hiding behind colonies. Shin Matsunaga alone has a couple different portrayals of his story, much like Ridden.
>>14466996
Avoid fighting, sure, but that doesn't mean they're above letting an enemy live if it increased their defense budget.
>>14451404
After the Gryps war when the Feddies basically disowned the Titans, many were absorbed by Neo Zeon during the first Neo Zeon war. Haman comments on getting a bunch of them to defect from the base at Kilimanjaro in ZZ when she takes Dakar.
That's why you have some of those Titan suits in both the Remnants and the Sleeves forces.
Ironic that a bunch of guys from an organization made to hunt zeeks went zeek. But obviously it was done to have all the badguys fold back into a single group.
>>14470047
That means there's a high likelihood that the Marasai vs Byalant Custom fight at Torrington was between two former Titans. That's kind of sad in a way.
Personally I liked the Efreet, it felt weird and strange like a weapon Zeon would design near the end of the war in a last ditch effort to create a Gundam tier suit, I didn't care about the silliness of the Zeon remnants having working suits this long after the OYW I felt that Unicorn was a celebration of all things UC, it made for a great conclusion of UC when I watched it after binging the rest of the series. Anyways I digress lets go back to arguing with a tripfag over shit that really doesn't matter
>>14455396
that's weird considering byarlant 1s kill count and byarlant 2 was even better
>>14467004
Season 1 of MS Igloo focused on Zeon, though they were shat on by the higher-ups.
Season 2 of MS Igloo was much more anti-Federation.
>>14467004
>They didn't make the Federation look good in comparison
This is an understatement.
>GMs start evil laughter when ceasefire is called
>>14471934
The Feddies in MS IGLOO are basically how they would act if they were made up of /m/en.
>REMEMBER SYDNEY!
>THE ONLY GOOD ZEEK IS A DEAD ZEEK!
>>14471934
Don't forget in episode 2 those Balls gleefully blowing up the stranded escape pods that couldn't fight back at all.
>>14474423
Basically this.
>Zeon wipes out half of humanity
>Literally HALF OF HUMANITY
>indiscriminately kills your family in the process in the name spacenoid superiority (You and your family were spacenoids, by the way.)
>They've been wrecking your comrades you've developed bonds with all day in the current battle and throughout the war
>armistice is signed.
>"It's okay now guys! Time to stop fighting!"
Yeah, I don't think so. You don't come out of that moment of adrenaline-fueled vengeful rage with an off-switch. You'd to want Zeon blood, too. Not everyone entered that war like Amuro; no investment in the happenings up until then, and if Thunderbolt's any indication, there's a good chance there are plenty of Federation units comprised of people from the same homelands. It's possible the Feds in MS IgLoo were among those units.
>>14474491
Pretty sure that was episode 3, and those were HLVs with active troops aboard.
Troops that were fighting back, at that.
>>14455694
It makes a lot more sense than the Federation being unable to crush Neo Zeon after multiple wars. It doesn't paint Zeon as victims, it paints Zeon as fanatics.
>>14474494
why did zeon think dropping and gassing colonies was a good idea again?
>>14474501
Firing at HLVs would be the equivalent of firing at a fleeing truck full of soldiers, I think.
Some of the HLVs were open and troops were firing back, but not all.
>>14474556
They have a much smaller and more limited industrial base and military, so they tried to blitz the Feds into an early surrender by hitting as hard as possible. They can't last in a long war, so they tried to win it in the short term.
Both were meant to be demoralizing, but dropping the colony was meant to knock out EFF HQ and gassing colonies was meant to deprive the federation of forward bases and manpower to recruit from.
>>14474556
>gassing colonies.
They didn't, for the most part. They only gassed Iffish because they needed it for the colony drop. Every other colony was destroyed by Musai cannon fire or an occasional nuke.
>dropping colonies.
Gotta admit...dropping a literal fucking CITY on top of the Federation's central HQ is a pretty effective way to fuck them up in lieu of manpower. If they didn't fuck it up the first time, they would have won for sure.
Zeon's whole schtick in the opening months of the war "Win by all means necessary and fuck everyone that isn't us" until the Antarctic treaty, when they finally start -almost- behaving like human beings.
>>14474556
They were up against a force that was probably 100s of times their size and controlled every part of the world and space that wasn't Side 3. It's like France declaring war on the rest of the world, they'd need to have means to even the odds.
>>14474703
>Zeon's whole schtick in the opening months of the war "Win by all means necessary and fuck everyone that isn't us" until the Antarctic treaty, when they finally start -almost- behaving like human beings.
Part of me likes to imagine that the majority of the nutjobs were killed in the opening months of the war during the chaos of shit like Loum, and past that are newer recruits from Side 3, which would explain why Zeon only seems half as fucknuts as they were back in january.
>>14474556
The gassing of a colony was the fastest way possible to get to dropping said colony (they can't afford the time and effort and resources it takes to forcibly relocate the people in it).
The dropping of the colony is required because it's one of the most powerful weapons possible (it fucking wreaks havoc on the earth to the point it causes irreparable environmental damage each time) and available to Zeon which has no ability to either combat the Federation in prolonged war or actually hold too much territory without being understaffed.
In canon, the colony drops were the only thing that was both available and reliably able to damage Jaburo had they been able to get it to hit South America instead of Australia the first go-round.
Every other colony drop after that was sort of just for shits and giggles and because it became something of a Zeon (meta)symbol.
>SIEG ZEON
>how are we going to proclaim our independence from the Federation?
>alright, lets drop another colony on the earth
Why would the Zeeks bother with anti newtype suits?
The EFSF and Londo Bell barely even acknowledge newtypes exist. Even then, only Nu Gundam was a newtype suit. That needed a newtype to use. The Gundam, Alex, Zeta, and ZZ could all be used by oldtypes to satisfactory effectiveness.
>>14474494
That would require modern Gundam to actually acknowledge that Zeon did bad shit to Spacenoids rather than continually pushing thw narrative of Zeon being 'tragic misunderstood freedom fighters' or the 'Light of Hope for all Spacenoids'. Just look at how IGLOO completely glossed over how Iffish was gassed before being dropped, or Unicorn ignoring how Zeon gassed
colonies and nuked whole Sides.
>>14474796
08th MS and 0083
>>14474796
Wasn't there some bullshit where a Zeek chick thought they were using sleep gas on the colony, but it turned out to be the shit you see here? >>14474812
I forget where I remember this from, so it may not have happened at all.
>>14474826
You're thinking of Cima Garahau from Gundam 0083.
>>14474755
Can I get a list of post antartic treaty warcrimes?
Something that undermines 0079 a little for me is that all of Zeons big warcrimes happen in the first episodes intro. After that all I can think of is
>McQuaves nuke
>Gihren incinerating his own forces
>>14474827
Oh shit, I can't believe I forgot that detail. She was even the one that gassed Shiro's colony IIRC.
>>14474755
Antarctic Treaty was a trap though.
Nukes were the only thing the Feddies had to possibly even the playing field. Once they were off the table. Zeon was able to invade Earth and capture most of it.
>>14474796
>Just look at how IGLOO completely glossed over how Iffish was gassed before being dropped, or Unicorn ignoring how Zeon gassed
IgLoo has the excuse of the characters in question not being aware of the actual methods Zeon used to depopulate the colony. It's actually the first Gundam to actually establish that the Zeon forces as a whole were not really in the know about a lot of what happened during that operation, and many were disturbed by it's implications.
As for Unicorn, it's kind of redundant to specifically mention the gassing, considering they showed the iconic drop itself. Besides, outside of 08th MS Team and Origin, most Gundam stories don't even bother to mention it.
I don't know what it is with you retards and the gassing part. That's actually the least of Zeon's war crimes. Because it's painful? Shit, people were sucked out into space with incredible force and many more were incinerated/demolished by debris and flying objects with the rest of the colonies. Besides, the Titans did the same thing, MORE TIMES than Zeon, even. I never see you sperglords mention that shit.
>>14474862
>I don't know what it is with you retards and the gassing part. That's actually the least of Zeon's war crimes. Because it's painful? Shit, people were sucked out into space with incredible force and many more were incinerated/demolished by debris and flying objects with the rest of the colonies. Besides, the Titans did the same thing, MORE TIMES than Zeon, even. I never see you sperglords mention that shit.
The entire populations of Sides 1, 2, and 4 were annihilated, civilian death counts were in the billions. The Titans only gassed a single colony (maximum dead of a couple million) and then attempted to gas another one and drop a colony, both of which were thwarted by the AEUG.
>>14474862
>>14474862
>IgLoo has the excuse of the characters in question not being aware of the actual methods Zeon used to depopulate the colony.
This. Also, if Oliver may is any indication, anyone not directly involved didn't even know it was happening at all. He flips his shit when he finds out.
>>14474870
I meant the gassing part, specifically. Like somehow, THAT one incident sticks out to you, and not the other colonies that they just straight up shot to pieces with everyone inside.
>>14474871
and they blame it all on Cima and her Marines.
Making them the bastards of Zeon. Denied safe haven in Axis after the war. while many of the real perpetrators got to go to axis.
>>14474870
They destroyed a colony with a colony laser, too. Don't forget that.
They destroyed a colony with another colony.
>>14474883
Colony Laser is made from Cima's home colony. Just to further add insult onto her injured life.
>>14474871
God, old CGI does not age well.
>>14474703
> They only gassed Iffish because they needed it for the colony drop.
I can't say as I really believe that part myself. They designed a gas deployment weapon for the Zaku, which you don't do for a single attack. At least, not when it's only going to be one or two Zaku using it during that attack, and making it a simple canister with no gun is just as effective for a once off.
Besides, I'm pretty sure Amuro sees another gassed colony during 0079. And that Iffish wasn't Shiro's home colony.
>>14475313
>Besides, I'm pretty sure Amuro sees another gassed colony during 0079
You must be thinking of Texas colony. It was empty, but not because it was gassed. The colony mirrors were damaged during the war, making it impossible to control the amount of light that goes into the colony. Since the rest of Side 5 was destroyed and it would have been difficult to get repairs done, it was abandoned. Amuro didn't find any dead people in there, anyway.
http://web.archive.org/web/20111126153013/http://www.gundamofficial.com/worlds/uc/background/glossary_locations.html#texascolony
>>14454503
>how come no one from AE was prosecuted for war crimes
>>14459539
Where Haro came from.
This tripfag seems fucking dumb as hell, but it did change some shit.
>>14470720
The Byarlant Custom pilot was a former Titans pilot who was working as a mechanic, Robin Diaz.
>>14474703
>until the Antarctic treaty, when they finally start -almost- behaving like human beings.
It's an insult to human dignity to call Zekes human.
>>14475420
Because it's not a war crime to design, build or sell weapons. You'd be better off putting the people who started the wars on trial for war crimes, though they're all die if I recall, so it's moot. AE only sold the weapons, they didn't ferment war really. And no "but selling weapons to both sides" doesn't actually count as fermentation, since neither side has to use them and it was their governments that decided to do so.
There's also the fact that any trial would probably end up putting a nobody in the box for designing or selling the weapons, or maybe heading a division, when it was their boss' boss' boss that decided to sell to both sides and had no further part in the whole thing beyond that decision and spending the profits. Which isn't a war crime either. It's immoral and shady as hell, but not actually a war crime.
>>14474862
My problem with Unicorn is how it goes out of its way to legitimise Zeon. We're repeatedly beaten iver the head about how noble and righteous Zeon's cause is, how they're the 'Light of Hope for all Spacenoids' and how Spacenoids love Zeon so much that they'll jump at the chance to join Frintal's Co-prosperity Sphere scheme. Not once is it pointed out how shit Zeon have been TO Spacenoids, like how the righteous liberators of Spacenoids wiped out three whole Sides or how the 'freedom' they're bringing is to live under the rule of a bunch of power mad dictators. The best argument Banana comes up with against Zeon is some half assed 'but killing is wrong!' nonsense.
>>14475671
If anything spacenoids should hate Zeon more than Earthers, that is true.
>>14475671
The problem with that is the applies to just about any Zeon show, not just Unicorn. No Spacenoid is shown wanting to join the Co-Prosperity Sphere from what I recall, just Frontal saying it was his plan. Palau would presumably want to, but there's no indication any Side actually even knows about it. Add to that that the Spacenoids jumped at the chance to help Char and Char's Counterattack and I don't think Unicorn is doing anything new in that regard. Sweetwater, where Char was based, was a colony made up of One Year War survivors and refugees who'd been given it as a home. And they fell over themselves for Char. The Federation was so afraid of popular Spacenoid support for Char they wouldn't let their own forces act against him and Londo Bell had to do so alone and against orders. Even then, when they were doing nothing, there's a civilian attack against an EF base during the film if I recall.
Zeon's cause isn't explained because it's trying to make the whole faction sympathetic, it's given cause because if anyone's going to support it past the first movie (and they did in Z, ZZ and CCA), then they must have a reason to do so. And it has to be a good reason. Something they obviously view as worthwhile. Just because they see it as justification doesn't mean we're supposed to though. The issue is that some people see internal justification as external justification when you can't present a characters reason for sympathizing with a cause without making it sympathetic in the first place.
It's the simple question: Why was Ramba Ral a Zeon officer despite him being a decent person when they're full of horrible shit? Obviously he must have had some reason. 0079 itself never answers the question, but further shows attempt to give some cause to it and as to why people like him stuck with Zeon despite the horrible shit.
>>14475748
Nationalism can do terrible things to otherwise decent men, still doesn't count as a just motivation.
>>14475763
Nationalism doesn't explain anything past 0079, since they were no longer part of that nation. Hell, Char wasn't even attempting to be. And the public still loved him and were in full support of him even after he dropped Luna II on Lhasa. Some of them people made homeless by the One Year War.
>>14475770
Shit writing is the only explanation for most of the stuff in Gundam, moreso as time passes and newer additions to the canon were added.
>>14474789
To kill the White Devil.
>>14475671
>My problem with Unicorn is how it goes out of its way to legitimise Zeon.
If you are brain dead enough to take something like that away from a show that very non-subtley beats you over the head with the idea that icons like Zeon and the Federation are for losers and the real potential for a better future lies with the individual, along with the constant reminder that Zeon CANNOT be allowED to rise again, then I have nothing for you. The only thing legitimized around here is your mental retardation.
>>14475770
Spacenoids are a bunch of crazy, murderous assholes, thus proving that the Titans were right.
Looks like a Rx-79 EZ with a GM head, desu.
Another reason this anime is shit. Just copies.
>>14476101
I'm sorry you somehow watched Unicorn yet missed those numerous and lengthy scenes praising Zeon as the Light of Hope and that awesome new system for people in space. Or how its outright stated that the Federation keeps the Box sealed precisely BECAUSE it will legitimise Zeon.
>>14476623
>I'm sorry you somehow watched Unicorn yet missed those numerous and lengthy scenes praising Zeon as the Light of Hope and that awesome new system for people in space.
You do realize the only people you hear this from are AFFILIATED with Zeon, right? Banagher immediately rejects that worldview because it's narrow minded and constitutes a small picture within the large scheme of the world, and the diner owner on Earth provides pretty telling counterpoints that the Zeon view on spacenoids is extremely selfish and incredibly dangerous.
>Or how its outright stated that the Federation keeps the Box sealed precisely BECAUSE it will legitimise Zeon.
Yes, Zeon DEIKUN, NOT the Principality. They're afraid that the idea of an adapted human being equated with Zeon Deikun's heavily flawed newtype theory, resulting in violent maniacs going "SEE! SEE! WE WE'RE RIGHT ALL ALONG!" in spite of the fact that Newtypes have absolutely nothing to do with any sort of superiority or improvement humanity. That's why Did she shit his pants when he found out the truth about the box; he knew the first thing that would happen is the Zeon worshippers would try to start another war.
Basically, Deikun ruined things for spacenoids, especially actual newtypes, with his spaceman ubermensch theory.
THAT'S the point Unicorn was trying to make. People will cling to whatever icon or ideology that they think will give their violence a legitimate place in the world, and that tendency is exactly what ruined things in the Universal Century.
How Unicorn managed to be some clumsily, almost cringeingly heavy-handed with all of this, to the point where the actual show suffered for it, and have it STILL go over the heads of retards like you is simply flabbergasting, but I've yet come to accept that /m/ isn't exactly full of bright young lads.
>>14476741
>That's why Did she shit his pants
Riddhe
I hate this phone
>>14476765
>>14476741
Because Riddhe is a Federation soldier? He would be naturally opposed to anything that gives Zeon power.
>>14476595
Nah, the chest is different.
>>14476775
Laplace's box had nothing to do with Zeon.
He was scared of what Zeon might do if they found out about it.
>>14476776
Liar
>>14476623
>numerous and lengthy scenes praising Zeon as the Light of Hope and that awesome new system for people in space.
>A Zeon saying nice things about Zeon
YA DON'T FUCKING SAY
>>14476840
And said character leaves Zeon weeks later.
TOTAL ZEON WANK.
>>14476623
The single main fucking plot point of the show is that the Box is a 'wow it's fucking nothing' as long as retarded zealots don't sensationalize it and you still managed to not catch or understand it. Bra-fucking-vo.
In the end, it means Unicorn is a yet another in long line of massive Feddie Wanks.
When are we going to get another Zeon centric series showing them kick Feddie butt for the fatherland? Crossbone Gundam can eat a dick, where's a Zeonic Front anime?
>>14476859
Unicorn was Newtype wank.
>>14477579
Newtypes are shit, bunch of autistic fucks with superpowers, 'next step in human evolution' my ass.
>>14477592
>'next step in human evolution' my ass.
Congratulations, that is the entire point of Newtypes and Unicorn's endgame stance about them.
Newtypes are not inherently superhuman and they aren't a step in evolution. Leave them alone.
>>14476623
I honestly cannot imagine being this retarded, this willing to take things at face value. It boggles the mind how someone like this manages to function in everyday society without blowing their life savings on things they see in advertisements.
>>14474840
Without the Antarctic Treaty the Federation would still have won, but there would have been a lot more colony-shaped holes in the earth.
>>14478319
>I honestly cannot imagine being this retarded, this willing to take things at face value. It boggles the mind how someone like this manages to function in everyday society without blowing their life savings on things they see in advertisements.
You ever look outside? They're trying that right now.
>>14475313
It is definitely not clear how many colonies were gassed and how many were destroyed as a result of collateral damage. The fact that most Gundam shows downplay the gassings and play up the colony drop could be considered evidence that the gassings were not particularly widespread, or could be considered evidence that you can't talk about gassing people in kids' shows but you can talk about the so-far-fictional war crime of dropping a space station on people.
>>14478337
I'm not sure what that has to do with my post, but Melissa McCarthy was great in Gilmore Girls.
>>14478339
They were widespread enough that the first thing that Kamille said when he heard about the Titans gassing a colony was how it sounded like something Zeon would do.
>>14478417
It is something Zeon would do. Obviously; they fucking did it.
The issue is that colony gassing don't usually happen unless there is a practical reason to do so. In the case of Zeon; they wanted to drop the colony. In the case of the Titans; outright destroying the colony would result in spacenoid revolt, whereas they wanted to cover it up.
And then the Titans lost the Federation's support, and they went ahead and publicly gassed a colony to spread fear because they had to somehow manage to be even more dickish than Zeon.
New Desides is Titans-esque ideology done right (or at least less wrong.) At least they actually had some officers that presented actual LOGIC behind their beliefs in the earth's right to rule. (they were wrong in the end, but at least they had fucking REASONS that weren't purely power hungry.)
>>14478339
>It is definitely not clear how many colonies were gassed and how many were destroyed as a result of collateral damage
>>14476741 here.
There was NO real collateral damage. The Origin manga makes it very clear that Zeon intentionally destroyed those colonies to deny the Federation forward bases and potential allies in space (not to mention the implication that Gihren wanted it as an extreme form of population control, to make way for the Zabi family to rule over the remainder of humanity.) Dozle even boasts about it, which goes to show how bought into the Zabi nutshow he is come 0079 compared to his 0068 goofball self.
Matsunaga's MSV-R entry can fuck itself sideways
>>14475770
Were you even paying attention during the movie, he used FIFTH Luna not Luna II.
>>14476595
Its called the GM Semi Striker, its also a fucking GM II basically so yeah
>>14478868
Explain why Zeon gassed, shot up, and nuked a couple dozen colonies then, aside from Gihren's 4th reich sperging there was no point to it.
>>14479096
>gassing colonies was meant to deprive the federation of forward bases and manpower to recruit from
>>14479130
>Instead it galvanized resistance against Zeon because Gihren was too self-centered to believe it would backfire
>>14479151
Well it didn't exactly backfire, he did basically ruin all of the EFF's infrastructure in space. All the EFSF had left was Luna II. When the EFF pushes back out into space, they have to conquer Zeon bases like Solomon for themselves to use as footholds during the final pushes of the war.
>>14479167
Zeon made a lot of fuckups, not simplifying their productions lines, not holding off on the turf wars amongst the Zabis and their cronies and KYCILLA TRUSTING CHAR WHEN SHE KNEW HE WAS THE SON OF ZEON DEIKUM were the biggest ones
>>14479096
>gassed
One. Singular. The idea that Zeon gassed multiple colonies is an outdated facet of Tomino's old setting notes that mentioned multiple colony drops (about 40,) and reused for his MSG novelization, so I wouldn't really use it as a source for in-continuity affairs. Gundam Century, on the other hand, doesn't mention gassings at all, and that's more or less the most widely used source for Gundam's lore by Sunrise, but Origin (manga) and 08th MS Team definitely show that Iffish, the colony that was dropped, was gassed, so the most accurate take on the One Week Battle is that Zeon gassed a single colony and just blew up the rest.
>nuked.
I actually can't recall a single instance of this being a thing since the old Entertainment Bibles and the Gihren's Greed games, both of which Sunrise just kind of treats like a "pick and choose" deal with Gundam OYW lore. They take what they think fits and use it and kind of just omit everything else.
Though the antarctic treaty made the use of nukes illegal on the battlefield so I guess they were probably at least used in some capacity?
>shot up
This seems like most of what Zeon did. They had the fleets and resources to do it, and the Origin manga seems to coincide with this implication. Seeing as Origin OVA just got greenlit for the Loum arc recently, it's a good chance that colonies getting destroyed en masse by Musai cannon fire is going to be the most accurate depiction of colony destruction during the OYW.
Which I guess to the "ZEON WANK" whiners means some kind of apologist rhetoric, as if anyone's trying to imply that's somehow better for some reason. In which case, you asinine cock-smokers should really shut the fuck up for being asinine cock-smokers.
>>14479243
>Implying Origin OVA won't omit the colony gassing or use the 'Evil Feddies used colonies as shields!' excuse
Imanishi's already showing his bias by changing the random asteroid hitting the agricultural module to it being caused by a Salamis just to make the Federation look bad. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go full 'Zeon did nothing wrong' for the Loum Arc.
>>14479269
>the battle of loum was a great patriotic defensive victory where the shield of zeon selflessly stopped the federation from hijacking a colony and attempting a colony drop!
>>14479243
> 08th MS Team definitely show that Iffish, the colony that was dropped, was gassed
I don't see how the colony Shiro was on could be Iffish since immediately after gassing that was hijacked to be moved in to position and dropped, yet he managed to leave his.
>>14479513
The 08th MS Team director did a tie-in manga that confirmed it, if Mark Simmons is to be believed.
>>14477948
And yet it shows them as almost literal gods in the end
>>14479243
Zeon literally had a design of Zaku II that was armed with a nuclear bazooka and greater shielding to protect the pilot, it wasn't a one-off.
You seem to be going way too far in the other direction in that you are trying to even say nuclear missiles weren't a thing used by ship and mobile suit before the treaty
>>14479674
You're thinking of the MS-06C, and the idea of them using nuclear warheads in their 289mm bazooka was from Gihren's Greed, IIRC, which probably got the idea from the Entertainment Bibles.
Supposedly, after the outset of the war, Zeon redesigned the MS-06C into the MS-06F.
On the other hand, the MG Zaku II manual seems to imply the MS-06F was in production since September of 0078, so like I said, so there's conflicting sources.
Either way, as I said, the Antarctic treaty banned the use of nukes, so there's a good chance they were used. Either that, or it was a condition Zeon put forth in fear of the Federation's vast supply of them.
Honestly, the Zeon needed the Antarctic treaty far more than the Federation did. The Feds could have easily wiped the floor with what remained of the Zeon Fleet with their arsenal after Loum.
>>14479269
>Imanishi's already showing his bias by changing the random asteroid hitting the agricultural module to it being caused by a Salamis just to make the Federation look bad.
I actually kind of liked that. The issue with the rogue meteor is extremely dull and shows more of an issue of neglect on the Federation's part. The tension it created felt really forced. It even felt a bit cartoonishly comedic, especially with Dozle's reaction.
The Salamis crashing into the agricultural block felt a lot more thematically in line with the growing power clash between the Federation military and the Zeon's internal hierarchy. What's more, it wasn't even a case of neglect; the Federation had a priority one mission, and the transport was moving out under standard traffic laws. Each was operating under their own internal protocols, which happened to clash and resulted in a disaster.
>>14479269
Actually, Imanishi seems like he's making Degwin and the rest of the Zabis even more snakelike in their political maneuvering.
For example; in the manga, Degwin wants nothing to do with a war against the Federation. He actually cares about the long term well-being of the Republic of Zeon, but Gihren slowly ursurps out power from under him. In the OVA, Degwin is only worried about the idea of war with the Federation because of the fact that Garma is stationed at the Banchi barracks, and he'd be the first person to bite the dust if the Federation has to actually reclaim the colony from an uprising. The two versions are similar, almost identical, but the lines that make it clear that Degwin sincerely doesn't want to fight the Federation are omitted.
Imanishi seems like he's trying to escalate the brutality and indifference of both sides for the sake of drama. Otherwise, the OVA wouldn't have the weight it currently does. I doubt he'll downplay the Zeon war crimes during Loum. In fact, he'll probably be a lot more graphic than the novel was.
>>14482147
What did Origin do with Loum out of interest? I have the first two volumes on my shelf, I should really read them at some point and get in to Origin.
>>14455066
those pilots were muslims just sayin
>>14474703
>that fucking faggot in 0083 could have ruined the federation by dropping the colony on jaburo but he dropped it on fucking Iowa instead to ruin the federations food production
>in the end they just took food from spacenoids and then made the titans
>>14482189
It's told that Char leds an attack on the spaceports while Garma led a force within the colonies to hunt down the population.
If you want more details, you can read this thread; http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16559
>>14479419
That better have been fucking sarcastic
Totally forgot about this thread
>>14465832
>>14465842
>>14465873
First off, what they said goes beyond just mobile suits since it affects the series themselves because of a mobile suit is considered a canon form, what does that make any series that has an off shot of it, but not it? Also you seem to again mistake official and canon. Thunderbolt and Origin cannot coexist in the main timeline just like A New Translation and ZZ cannot coexist with each other because of the contradictions either in tech/design or events. You can say 'lol it's animated so canon!' but that doesn't change the fact you have inconsistencies which until Sunrise addresses them like they did with 0800 and the United Maintenance Plan to explain why the variations exists, you've got a contradiction. Thunderbolt is dealing with the same issue that 0080 did, especially since the mobile suits in Thunderbolt are not given specific designations which implies they are the main line suits for that Timeline. Endless Waltz is either it's own thing or retcons the designs of Wing, really nothing else to say there. That applies to everything else. If they continue the Origin timeline, we will see how that pan out. But considering the deviations between Tomino and Yas's story for MSG, you'd have to be silly to think they can coexist. Same with Thunderbolt. In regards to the RX project, it was something on the drawing boards but since the Feddies were so far behind in MS R&D, they weren't able to make much progress until the war began and their spies started gather information on Zeon's mobile suit and they captured Zakus for testing to fill in the gaps. Again, I point to Amuro's pilot data and how it was a game changer for Feddie pilots, if they had other mobile suit pilots they would have been able to incorporate that as well into later models, but that's never mentioned.
Nice that it's still around really so i can respond.
>>14474501
>>14474556
>>14474833
They were only fighting back after they came under attack and their ships which had no means of defending themselves were being destroyed. Also the only units they had were ground forces like the MS-06J which couldn't function in space properly and the soldiers didn't have space suits to assist so if the ship/HLV was blown up, they'd die regardless.
Because you're declaring war on against a government that is everything but you and all the Sides (minus Side 6), even after years of talks decided to back the Federation. If the Sides were allowed to remain, they would support the Federation's war effort economically and militarily by feeding it manpower, equipment, resources and the colonies themselves as staging points. The destruction of the enemy aligned sides was a necessity if Zeon had any hope of winning the war. The Colony Drop was devised for two reasons. 1st, Zeon didn't know the exact location of Jaburo, 2nd it was built deep under the bedrock so even if Zeon conducted a conventional bombing campaign they wouldn't damage it. So they turned a colony into a giant kinetic weapon because as was said before, if they destroyed Jaburo, the war would be over not just because of consequences to the chain of command but how demoralizing the action would have been.
>War crimes
You keep using that word, they were violations of the treaty, and the only violation was M'Quve launching the nuke in the TV timeline. Killing would have been justified in nuking Side 6 because they broke their neutrality by housing the Alex which meant they forfeited the protection of the treaty. Also the construction of GP-02 could be see as a violation of the treaty by the federation.
>>14474877
>>14481286
>>14482227
Ah Cima the Tragic Sue who was a willing patsy. Remember that after the operation, she got a multi-rank promotion to Lieutenant Colonel, her own fleet and a cushy home defense gig for the rest of the war. If Zeon had won, she'd be doing fine, but since it fell apart, she was put into the role of fall guy. You think she moved up on her ugly looks alone? Also, let's turn her home colony into a weapon just to shit on her some more! And then have her stab the one person who genuinely wants to help give her guidance and sees her as a good person and not just a pirate with no honor. Oh and then kill herself with her own gun. Brilliant! The MS-06C is an oddball, it was meant of lobbing nukes and had extra armor to protect itself, but because it looked exactly the same as the MS-06F, you can't tell which is what and what type of Zaku II was used at Loum. (More probably a mix.) In regards to nukes in general. It's more likely the reason why Zeon couldn't have attacked Luna II after they routed the Federation Fleets at Loum, because the Federation could use their nuclear stockpile defensively to launch them at any attack fleet since they would know the range and when to detonate them by either proximity or timer giving them a a big advantage. Also the risk of the Federation scraping together all their remaining ships and doing an all or nothing attack on Side 3. But since we don't know what the manpower for both sides was after Loum, we can only speculate since the Antarctic Treaty was originally a peace treaty to end the war until Revil mucked things up
[JABURO HAS BEEN DESTROYED]
<Gato! You can't do that! The future will change! You'll create a time paradox!>
>>14484068
>Totally forgot about this thread
I can't tell you how disappointed I am that you remembered
>>14482273
>>14482147
You're both thinking about the One Week Battle when they attacked the colonies at the outset of the war.
At Loum, it's implied that the colonies were damaged in the chaos, and finished off after the fact. They left Texas colony intact.
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/I2NREeC.jpg "maxresdefault[1]")
![1266108167079[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/R92JsWa.jpg "1266108167079[1]")
