Say something nice to our good friend casval-kun
Stop dropping rocks on us you silly bastard.
![[Kagura] Mobile Suit Gundam the Movie III [BDRip 1440x1080 x264 Hi10P FLAC].mkv_snapshot_01.27.08_[2015.02.22_15.58.17].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/tmjcPTv.jpg "[Kagura] Mobile Suit Gundam the Movie III [BDRip 1440x1080 x264 Hi10P FLAC].mkv_snapshot_01.27.08_[2015.02.22_15.58.17].jpg")
>>14447552
Good taste in clothes, women and mechs.
I wonder what would happen if Lalah would have survived 0079.
>>14447552
How's your mom doing?
>>14447556
The butterfly effect stemming from her survival would probably prevent and invalidate every major conflict until Victory Gundam.(tho Titans might still rise, depending on if or not Stardust is a thing)
>>14447552
Why didn't you fuck your sister?
You were the best of a bad bunch.
>>14447624
Zeta would definitely still happen, and Stardust isn't necessary to explain why. Even if it didn't though, Haman would still be around so there'd still be a ZZ.
>>14447624
Nah.
The economical conflict between spacenoids and earthnoids won't disappear, so the Titans and Stardust would still happen.
Since EF would hunt for any piece of information about newtype studies, Lalah and Char would have to run for Axis, since it's the only safe place.
With Lalah by his side, Char would probably try to become a supreme leader of Axis instead of Haman.
>>14447552
he makes very good speeches. he should consider going into politics.
>>14447644
> Lalah doesn't care about social standing or politics
> Char doesn't either and feels like a clown when he feels the need to play a politician in order to fulfill his legacy
> He'd try to become leader of Axis
I'm pretty sure we argued over this months back and I still find the idea he'd feel the need to run to Axis, never mind try to lead it laughable.
>>14447643
Axis led by Pre-Char Haman would be a Space Hippy UNDERSTANDING Land. So, Zeta while likely - wouldn't progress or end in the same way.
Still, She'd likely get off'ed by the more ambitious elements in her administration, so it may be irrelevant in the end.
>>14447683
Only if you take CDA as canon, which I don't personally, since manga aren't generally canon and that one is dumb anyways.
>>14447552
There should be a lolicon support group called The Aznables
>>14447692
Not the same anon but... Nah, Nigguh.
While CDA certainly dials it up to eleven, it only elaborates on what was already said in ZZ, where it comes to her.
Would trust him around my daughters and asteroids
>>14448058
I wasn't aware ZZ said that Char hated her for killing his child or that she became such a cold person solely because he wouldn't fuck her.
You could have been a contender.
![[Anime-Koi] Gundam-san - 13 [h264-720p][4A5FCD02].mkv_snapshot_01.27_[2014.09.29_02.31.34].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/XQ6P2wW.jpg "[Anime-Koi] Gundam-san - 13 [h264-720p][4A5FCD02].mkv_snapshot_01.27_[2014.09.29_02.31.34].jpg")
>>14447552
YOU BELONG TO ME
>>14447654
>Lalah doesn't care
But she may start to care later. People change under different circumstances.
>Char doesn't either
If he didn't care, he won't join AEUG
>>14448300
He joined AEUG to play pilot and had to be endlessly roped and pushed into a leadership position, and even then he only accepted when he pretty much had no other choice.
>>14448170
You're splitting hairs, Anon.
We know from Z and ZZ that she used to be quite the wide eyed idealist and that Char had a lot to do with that character shift.
Whatever nonsense CDA introduces, it merely uses what was already there.
>>14448300
> But she may start to care later
So your point is that there's nothing to indicate she does or would care now, but that anything could happen, so the likelihood is she will care later. Even though there's nothing to indicate she would care now?
> If he didn't care, he won't join AEUG
Like >>14448432 said, that's missing the point completely. Char joined AEUG because he wanted to stop the Titans by being a pilot. He turned down chances to lead AEUG or partake in the politics of running it and had to be pushed and shoved just to do the Dakar speech. Even then he ran at the first chance. He had no interest in leading, just in fighting.
>>14448502
I don't think I am actually, for the simple reason that I don't think there's anything in Zeta or ZZ to account for some of the stuff in CDA. I think CDA does what 0083 did and introduces reasons to explain something that really didn't need explanation and was already answered in the shows themselves. In Stardust's case, it's why the Titans exist. We already have reason enough from 0079, and Zeta expands on that. Stardust tries to shoehorn in a conspiracy that really has no place in the overall scheme.
CDA is the same. Char hates Haman (a) because she wants to revive the Zabis, who he hates and (b) because she's using Mineva, a child, to do it. He doesn't need any other reason. At no point during Zeta does he act like there's something as personal as a dead baby between them. If there was, this is Char, and he wouldn't just get angry. He'd kill her. He'd hide in her army and he'd kill her.
By the same token, Char not loving her isn't needed to explain her cold personality, because it's already explained in show as what she thinks is needed to lead and what she adopted to help survive on Axis, far from Earth. Being rejected is just shoveling melodrama in for no real reason. Shoving it in where it doesn't even really belong in my opinion.
>>14447552
He has never betrayed anyone in his life.
>>14447552
He has lovely hair.
>>14447552
he is a very very very loyal friend
>>14448827
>He'd kill her. He'd hide in her army and he'd kill her.
Which, hilariously enough is EXACTLY what he does in the original plan for ZZ, before CCA was greenlit and significant story revisions caused Char to became Glemmy, among other things.
He fuckin' Garma's her.
Has Nice hair
>>14448233
I BELONG TO YOU
>>14448827
Char has joined the AEUG because he cared about the political situation.
Caring about politics doesn't mean trying to become a leader.
If Char just wanted to be a pilot, then he would just be in EFSF or Titans.
Char had no interest in leading, but, again, he had no way to push his father's ideals in politics since AEUG was an ex-fed organisation, dependent on funding from other groups like Anaheim.
>So your point is that there's nothing to indicate she does or would care now, but that anything could happen, so the likelihood is she will care later. Even though there's nothing to indicate she would care now?
Yes.
>>14451470
Except the Dakar speech was all pushing his father's ideals and he had to be pushed in to doing that too.
If Char had lead the AEUG then he would have had a good deal of control over it's direction and purpose. Just like the Zabis changed the direction and purpose of Zeon once they took over, from Deikun's "We're splitting off because Earth is tired and space is the place" to Degwin's "We're splitting off and taking over Earth cause we're so great". There was even a bit of change of direction between Degwin and Gihren.
He'd also have had to change Axis' direction if he took them over, since Axis was formed as a Zeon refuge following the loss of the war, with a faint hope of reigniting it with Zabi like ideals about taking over the Earthsphere while you're putting it as him wanting to take it over and make it more in line with his father's ideals on Contolism - which implies changing it's direction.
> Yes
So basically this is less "I think this is the likely course of events should X change happen" and more "I want this to be the likely course of events should X change happen because it's more interesting/fun to me and I'll change the characters as necessary to fit the situation"? Not to even imply that's bad, because it's what a lot of writing is, and arguably what Tomino did to make CCA. It's not the likely course of events as the characters exist though in my opinion and having to rely on changes with no basis is a good example of why.
>>14451534
Man, a lot of speeches is written from day to day and only a minority of them realy means something to the speech performer and his crew.
>If Char had lead the AEUG then he would have had a good deal of control over it's direction and purpose
Nope, he would be under even greater control from Anaheim. Most of the AEUG leading men don't have any interest in Zeon ideas. The basic idea of AEUG is to remove Titans and soften the control over colonies for a small bit. All that Anti-Earth stuff is more like "we agree to keep our current relationship, but give our deputies (whose election companies are funded by companies, which are dependant on selling goods to Earth) the right to be in the EF Assembly"
Zabis had the colonial "national bourgeoisie" on their side, like Shin Matsunaga's father. They were the part of it themselves.
>
He'd also have had to change Axis' direction if he took them over, since Axis was formed as a Zeon refuge following the loss of the war, with a faint hope of reigniting it with Zabi like ideals about taking over the Earthsphere while you're putting it as him wanting to take it over and make it more in line with his father's ideals on Contolism - which implies changing it's direction.
He would. But it would be much easier than changing the AEUG
>>14451571
> Man, a lot of speeches is written from day to day and only a minority of them realy means something to the speech performer and his crew.
You must be kind of crazy if you really think Char making a speech on Contolism, his father's belief and decrying the Titans, the people he joined AEUG to fight was just a thing he said and had no commitment or attachment to.
> he would be under even greater control from Anaheim
You mean the people that helped him drop a rock on Lhasa and were unconcerned with Earth experiencing a nuclear winter. Yea, I'm sure they'd be really upset if he pushed AEUG more towards Contolism than fighting the Titans.
> All that Anti-Earth stuff is more like "we agree to keep our current relationship, but give our deputies (whose election companies are funded by companies, which are dependant on selling goods to Earth) the right to be in the EF Assembly"
Not really. Hayato, who is the leader of sister group Karaba, congratulates Char on the Dakar speech and says it's elicited more excitement in the cause than ever directly after Char talks about people have to leave Earth behind. Amuro and him share a drink while musing about how trying to get people in to space is a hard task. AEUG was always about getting people in to space, fighting the Titans was just their first priority.
> Zabis had the colonial "national bourgeoisie" on their side, like Shin Matsunaga's father. They were the part of it themselves.
And Char would have had the Spacenoid populace on his side if he'd wanted to do anything, a fact he later exploited, knowingly, in CCA.
> He would. But it would be much easier than changing the AEUG
Given the AEUG was already looking to get people in to space, not really.
>>14453089
Char is not the supreme leader of AEUG, even though he believed in what he was talking about, he had to do what the rest of the group leaders say.
>You mean the people that helped him drop a rock on Lhasa and were unconcerned with Earth experiencing a nuclear winter. Yea, I'm sure they'd be really upset if he pushed AEUG more towards Contolism than fighting the Titans.
Anaheim supports AEUG and NZ only to have more military orders. AEUG and NZ are weaker. If they loose, then Anaheim would just count the profits. If they win, Anaheim can ask for some kind of bonus.
>AEUG was always about getting people in to space,
Yeah, and did nothing to move people into space after the victory over Haman and Titans.
>And Char would have had the Spacenoid populace on his side
If his influence wouldn't get any damage from some counter-measures of media and government.
>Given the AEUG was already looking to get people in to space, not really.
They were looking as hard as Indian National Congress was looking for independence.
>>14456550
> Char is not the supreme leader of AEUG, even though he believed in what he was talking about, he had to do what the rest of the group leaders say.
He is actually. He has to deal with people like Wong and AE still, but he's the leader of AEUG regardless. Any dealing with those people is a negotiation, not orders. He's free to lead it in any direction he chooses if he chooses. He might lose support, but that's only a maybe and he can negotiate support in such cases. The leader of Karaba also fully agrees with his speech, so it's not like he's alone in it.
> Anaheim supports AEUG and NZ only to have more military orders
So? As long as AE keeps making money whey don't care whether people leave Earth or not, and any effort to get people off Earth will almost certainly involve conflict. Which is why they helped him in CCA despite his aim being to make Earth uninhabitale and him dropping a rock on Lhasa as proof of concept.
> Yea, and did nothing to move people in to space after the victory over Haman and Titans.
Because by the time Haman was defeated there essentially was no AEUG. Everyone was dead or gone. Even Bright had left. How were they supposed to enact that ideal with no people, resources or leadership? Bright and Amuro signed up to start Londo Bell instead, but most of the AEUG died in either Zeta or ZZ.
> If his influence wouldn't get any damage from some counter-measures of media or government
He didn't seem to worry about that in CCA, why would he worry about it in a not!Zeta show?
>>14457710
> He's free to lead it in any direction he chooses if he chooses.
And if he won't satisfy AE investors, then he could say goodbye to the supplies.
>As long as AE keeps making money whey don't care whether people leave Earth or not
Yes. What's the problem?
>Because by the time Haman was defeated there essentially was no AEUG. Everyone was dead or gone. Even Bright had left
But you're wrong. The whole LondoBell is made of AEUG veterans.
>He didn't seem to worry about that in CCA, why would he worry about it in a not!Zeta show?
Probably, because he has established a well-working propaganda and recruiting network between Zeta and CCA. What I wanted to say is that Char needed other funding sources to make the movement free from his sponsor's influence.
>>14457978
Yeah. VETERANS. THAT LEFT.
>>14457978
> What's the problem?
There isn't one. Except Char himself. Which is the point. AE don't care what he does, so long as they make money. AEUG are already lined up to do what he wants, though the Titans take greater priority, since they're an active threat. Char could theoretically have taken command from the start if he'd wanted to, and Blex and others did want him to. He didn't want to though, so he had to be pushed and shoved in to the role despite not wanting it and took the first chance to ditch it. He could have though. Saying he would take command of Axis is ignoring that in Zeta he could have taken command of the AEUG from the get go and didn't.
> Londo Bell is made of AEUG veterans.
And how do you actually know that? One of the few other named Londo Bell forces, Kayra, isn't a known AEUG pilot at all. She isn't specified to have any connection to them. Only Bright, Amuro and Astoniage are noted survivors of AEUG. And I forgot about Astoniage. AEUG were so desperate for personnel at the start of ZZ that Bright had to basically beg Judau to help him. And that was before fighting the first Neo Zeon war, which further fucked them in terms of personnel and resources.
> because he has established a well working propoganda and recruiting network between Zeta and CCA.
Entirely supposition on your part. Which is ignoring that even if he got it such a thing up and running he almost certainly did it after taking power. And that he could get any such network while in command of AEUG too, not just Zeon.
> What I wanted to say is that Char needed other funding sources to make the movement free from his sponsor's influence.
Again, entirely supposition on your part. And again, it's ignoring that he almost definitely had command of Neo Zeon before getting any such support if he did get it. And that he could do the same with AEUG.
>>14458073
>AEUG are already lined up to do what he wants
They're not. Only Char, dead Blex and maybe Hayato. AE is satisfied with building MS for the Federation and would press on AEUG to act in the more pro-EF way.
>And how do you actually know that?
Gundam Wiki. Yep, that's pretty unreliable source sometimes, but I suppiose I can use it.
>Entirely supposition on your part. Which is ignoring that even if he got it such a thing up and running he almost certainly did it after taking power. And that he could get any such network while in command of AEUG too, not just Zeon.
Look. Char survives Zeta and arranges some things during ZZ. By the moment he left AEUG, it suffers great casualties and can be hardly considered a power. During ZZ he finds some people from old Zeon, some people from Axis, some young kids being unsatisfied with the situation they're in and establishes a group - his own Neo Zeon. He doesn't have to pay attention to anyone, who can be loyal to EF to some degree (unlike AEUG, where the majority of members were either ex-EFSF soldiers or OYW partisans like Reccoa).
Right now I'm trying to make analogies between the fictional group and the way real organisations have became powerful. And that's fucking hard, especially when I try to translate my thoughts into english.
>>14458263
> They're not. Only Char, dead Blex and maybe Hayato.
Amuro too, but that's besides the point. The point is that Char and Hayato lead AEUG and Karaba between them so saying "only" they support the idea is kind of toothless when they're the actual leaders. There's no support for the idea AE would want them to act in a more EF friendly manner. So long as AEUG still needs suits there's no indication they care what AEUG does.
> Gundam Wiki
> Using it as a source AEUG still had people to make up Londo Bell in the same post you say that AEUG suffered great casualties and could hardly be considered a power.
> he doesn't have to pay attention to anyone
If he wants suits from AE he does. And if he wants to sit around and build support from the public and private investors before contacting them he could literally do the same with AEUG.
Members having pro-EF leanings doesn't matter when Contolism isn't going against the EF, and AEUG already supported Contolism, with him making a speech urging for it as one of their biggest moments in the show. A speech he gets a lot of support for.
Saying that Char would choose to lead Axis is a pointless thing when the entire point of Zeta is that he doesn't want to lead and even in CCA he talks about how he hates doing it and feels like a clown, with several lines suggesting he has no intention of sticking around even if he's successful in dropping Axis. Like him asking the people of Sweetwater to take care of things afterwards. He could lead Axis, just like he could lead AEUG. He just doesn't want to and it takes a lot to make him do so. Even then, he runs at the first opportunity. Pointing out that he could get independent financing, ignoring that that's true of AEUG too, is missing the point, since it's still not addressing what would make him want to take power in the first place.
>>14447552
hes a true texan
>>14447552
Determined
