Hey /m/ how would a VF-1 stack up to the RX-78 and vice versa?
just fight in the van allen belt and let the radiation kick in
>>14428864
Neither would be effected by it though. They're both space use units that saw a lot of space action. Theyre both suited for atmospheric combat too, but can and did fight in space.
Without minovsky particles, VF otherwisestill VF.
>>14428723
with normal pilots gundam is better
anything better VF dominates
>>14429075
Considering the shit the average Macross protagonist goes through I don't find newtype pilot exploits to be that impressive anymore.
>>14428723
It's like this:
In DYRL, Roy easily perforates his own VF with his 25mm gun pod.
In the first episode of Gundam, the RX-78 is utterly impervious to the Zaku's 60mm gun pod.
To put this in human-scale terms, the Gundam laughs off .50 cal shots while the Veritech dies from .22 cal shots.
The only way the VF-1 could possibly damage the RX-78 is if you give it the FAST packs from the non-canon movie that have the beam cannon (OP's pic) or the Reaction Warheads from the end of Space War One. The standard mid-series VF-1 would be unable to scratch the 1st Episode version of the Gundam.
>>14428723
Google it, question has been asked here millions of times
>>14429621
It's like this: You're ignoring multiple factors and going purely off caliber like it's the single determining factor in penetration or firearms. Which it isn't. Something that's been pointed out multiple times in such threads.
The VF is faster. That is its only advantage.
The Gundam is bulletproof vs the VF's gunpod, it cancels radar and most other sensors systems the VF has (and is consequently not gonna be hit by its missiles), is armed with outrageously powerful beam weaponry, and on top of all that the Gundam's pilot is psychic.
The VF would be scrap in a hurry.
Now, later VFs -- like the 17 and onward -- those would be harder for an MS to handle.
>>14429740
The RX-78 cannot scatter minovsky particles.
>>14429646
>going purely off caliber like it's the single determining factor
Feel free to link me to official information about muzzle velocity, projectile composition, ballistic gel tests, or any of these other factors you're referring to.
Because the only thing we know about either weapon is the caliber.
So basically you're saying that I'm wrong because it *might* be possible for the GU-11 to be more powerful than the Zaku Machinegun and acting like this possibility makes you right without needing actual evidence.
>>14429621
You say first episode like it proves your point when it's a time tested convention of mecha to make a new robot nigh invincible in its first appearance to show how awesome it is and get you to buy the new toy or model
Unfortunately, Valkyries rarely receive such favoritism merely because they are all mostly grunts and even the super prototypes are rarely any more armed or armored than production models
>>14429740
> The VF is faster. That is its only advantage.
No, it isn't. The VF-1 is a lot more agile than the Gundam for a start, able to transform between it's different modes in about 1.5 seconds as an average, with each offering different strengths and making it capable of rapid changes of direction the Gundam can't do because of Gerwalk for instance. It's not only faster in a straight line and more agile, but has greater acceleration and is capable of withstanding a lot greater g-force too. It produces power on an order of magnitude or two beyond the Gundam as well, much of which goes to powering energy conversion armor that makes it more durable than a lot of people seem to realize, with Hikaru crashing from altitude to the ground and through several buildings without a scratch on the VF-1 during the first episode alone. He did slow his descent by changing to Gerwalk, but only at the last second and he crashed at high speed without damage, something that happens several times during the show.
>>14429859
Actually we do know one other thing noteworthy. When Zeon wanted to improve the Zaku II and other grunt physical weaponry during the original show they did so primarily by reducing the caliber of the bullets from 120mm to 90mm. Which appeared to be effective. Even the Gouf's 75mm gunhands were dangerous to Luna Titanium and Kai and Amuro avoided being hit by them several times. It's also ignoring the fact that Glaugs, Regults and other Zentradi units had beam weapons from the start of the show and Valkyries were able to avoid them most of the time. They even took hits from them without major incident on a couple of occasions, so it's not like they're an instant win in and of themselves.
>>14429621
>>Implying DYRL isn't canon
>>14428723
So, how would a gundam counter a pin point barrier coated VF flying a subsonic speed at it?
>>14430121
>Do you even remember love?
>>14430142
The VF-1 isn't equipped with a Barrier.
Everyone always forgets about the VF-1's nose and head beam weapons.
>>14430173
Yea, they didn't get barriers miniaturized until the YF-19/21, which is about 4 generations down the line. I think it goes VF-1 Valkyrie, VF-4 Lightning III, VF-11 Thunderbolt (mostly for space, with the VF-5000B Star Mirage as the mainstay for atmospheric fighting) and then VF-19. Which didn't actually become mass produced like the others despite winning Project Supernova, with the VF-17 getting mass produced in it's stead. A unit that didn't include pin point barriers initially, but was retrofitted to have them at some point between 2045 and 2059 (between 7 and Frontier). Probably fairly quickly after 7 considering the VF-171 seems to be old hat by the time of Frontier I suppose.
Other units like the VF-9 Cutlass, VF-14 Vampire etc that fall between those numbers above weren't mainstays of the UN Spacy and many of them probably weren't even mass produced. Outside the VF-1 Valkyrie and YF-19/VF-19 Excalibur none of them even really appear much either, they're just background lore akin to the MSVs.
>>14428723
RX-78 dies trying to dodge 90 bajillion missiles
>>14430142
it wouldn't lol. depending on the vf those things tank anti capital weapons
>>14430224
>Which didn't actually become mass produced
technically it was if it remained M7's mainstay VF and earth continued producing them, right?
>>14430173
Yeah but I'm not talking about the VF-1 or the RX-78, but rather any VF that has a barrier against any gundam
>>14430142
>VF-31
>explodes on contact because its shit
>anything elses
smashes le gundam to pieces
>>14430291
>>>VF-31
>>explodes on contact because its shit
Why do poeple say its shit? It comes with damn nearly every other VF had to date and has the guns on both arms along with the barrier, the only trade off it has seems to be less to be about it being less energy efficient since they have to give energy to the drones the Walkure uses
>>14430282
Any VF that has a barrier would shred pretty much all of UC's gundams and would only have trouble with the high end crazy shit like Turn A or 00 Qan[T]
>>14430312
At this point I seriously think Turn A would be able to do anything, doesn't that barrier work by warping space around whatever it is protecting? And the beam weapons also shoot a space shreding beam?
Also is the captcha system shitting itself for anyone else? It diplicates the window and one of them is completely blank
>>14430276
VF-17 was 7's mainstay VF. There were 19s, but they didn't go into mass production until later in the show. The only one you saw for most of it was Basara's custom VF-19.
>>14430332
The only VFs to have that space shredding gun, which is a heavy quantum beam gun are the VF-27, the YF-29 and the YF-30. Two of which are really only one off prototypes, while the other saw very limited production. They're not normal at any point, at least so far. And Delta hasn't had them, so it would appear they were deemed unnecessary and ditched for cheaper guns.
I personally think such a gun would beat the Moonlight Butterfly given how it works though yes, since it basically crashes fundamental matter from another dimension in to our own causing the two to react violently and produce nuclear fusion plasma in a line. And I don't see the Moonlight Butterfly eating star stuff. I'm probably in the minority on that though, so it's probably not advisable to tour it as definitive or anything.
>>14430354
VF-11 was 7's mainstay. VF-17 was for Diamond Force only. VF-19 was for Emerald Force only.
>>14429621
>>14429859
http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrosstechman/tech-gunpod.html
The VF-1 gunpod is 55mm not 25 and that doesn't mean shit when you factor in muzzle veolcity and etc. Perfect example, the Guntank MP type is made of Lunar Titanium, the same kind of material the RX-78 is made out of that can supposedly shrug off 120mm rounds from a Zaku machine gun, but in 08th MS Team the Gouf Custom's 35mm machine gun was able to destroy those Guntanks with no effort. Caliber doesn't mean everything. You also have to consider VF gunpods have been shown to destroy Zentradi machines and battleships which are made out of a super space alloy that's much stronger than titanium. A VF-1 gunpod in theory should be able to dent the Gundam's armor.
>>14430443
The 30 was a one-of-a-kind prototype.
The 29, they made more than one, the one Alto flew(Made from VF-25 parts), the 29B flown by the guy in M30, and if the game is any more canon, Isamu getting one as well.
The 29 is more of a case of a stupidly powerful VF that is only really brought out to deal with crazy shit like the Vajra. The known variants of the 29 both keep the YF designation.
>>14429859
Zaku Machineguns use low velocity HE shells.
GU-11s use DU rounds which are piercing by design.
You know, I'm actually not sure how minovsky interference would affect early VFs.
Like, on the one hand its true that MI would fuck with radar and radio waves, so communication will be a problem and lots of their sensors will be trivialized. But early VFs used optical targeting for long distance engagements rather than radar anyway, because the Zentradi had jamming tech to.
Its true that really high MI densities can mess with light, but a single MS (even a Gundam) cannot reach those densities, and would probably have trouble causing enough MI to invalidate radar locking too.
But lets suppose it does. That brings us to the real question:
How good are Macross computers?
Because its pretty obvious that, in Gundam, Minovksy interference is still only a problem because they never advanced their computer tech for anything other than Gundam systems beyond 1970's era technology. Turrets haven't been able to hit shit for decades, and no one has any interest in solving that problem because its a mobile-suit centered show.
With better targeting computers, Minovksy becomes much less of a problem. Gundam clearly doesn't have that computing power, but that doesn't mean Macross suffers the same with its access to alien tech.
>>14432810
Considering the Macross universe has computers powerful enough to run AI programs for Ghosts I'd say they're pretty good.
>>14432810
They managed to overcome Fold Waves, use missiles proficiently and control Ghosts in them
So I guess Minovsky particles wouldn't be too much of a problem, unless of course something with a Minovsky drive appears like the V2, SV, Zanspain or the Phantom.
On a related note:
Could the G-Saviour outspeed a VF?
>>14434489
Some of the earlier VFs, maybe. I doubt it could keep up with anything from Frontier on, VF0171's excluded, since they're an earlier/cheaper design with a lot lower thrust to weight ratio. The VF-25, the basic unit of Frontier, has a dry thrust to weight ratio of 39 something. The V2 only has a max acceleration of 20Gs and while the G-Savior probably has greater acceleration, it weighs a lot more than any unit in Victory (several times more) and has less thrust than even an end game unit like the Gottrlatan. I didn't compare stats with the V2 since a lot of it's thrust comes from the Minovsky Drive and it has less measued thrust than some units because of it, while end game units can keep up with it in drive - even if using different engines.
You have to go to F91 to find anything surpassing the VF-1 though, with the Den'an Zon (basic mook unit of the Crossbone Vanguard) out-doing it's empty acceleration of 3.47 with a 3.99G acceleration. Keep in mind though, Gundam and Macross don't use equivalent acceleration units, so the numbers might not compare properly. The Nu only has an acceleration of 1.5 to compare, which is lower than the VF-1's fully weighted acceleration of 2.49.
The V2 and G-Savior could out do anything up to the YF-19 and YF-21 or VF-19 and VF-22 seen in Plus and 7, but is unlikely to be able to compete with any of the units from Frontier or Delta in terms of acceleration.
>>14434591
> The V2 and G-Savior could out do anything up to the YF-19 and YF-21 or VF-19 and VF-22 seen in Plus and 7, but is unlikely to be able to compete with any of the units from Frontier or Delta in terms of acceleration.
Indeed, it would incredibly unwise for them to attempt to do so. VF-25s and later are full of tech like the EX-Gear and and Inertial Storage Capacitor for the express purpose of keeping the pilot from getting turned to jelly by the G-forces they now move at.
Gundam, as far as I am aware, has no equivalent tech. Late generation VFs can fly at speeds that would kill the pilot of any MS that tried to keep up, even if their MS could physical match their speed.
>>14429859
You didn't even get your caliber sizes right you moron.
>>14429859
Knowing just the caliber tells you NOTHING about a firearms effectiveness.
A .45 is much larger caliber than say something that uses 7.62 nato but only has a small fraction of the penetrating power.
Also gandems are primitive human technology vs tech from an alien race that conquered the known universe. You might as well compare muskets to p90s. But you're going to concentrate on caliber? fucking retard.
>>14430354
the 17 was extremely rare in 7. Everyone else was still using 11s.
>>14432810
>>14434489
Keep in mind that even the earliest Macross tech is from reverse-engineering technology that had millions of years of development.
>>14430463
>Perfect example, the Guntank MP type is made of Lunar Titanium
Source or bullshit, a cursory look at the wiki makes no mention of its armor.
>>14436576
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/08thmsteam/rx-75.htm
>>14434617
>Inertial Storage Capacitor for the express purpose of keeping the pilot from getting turned to jelly by the G-forces they now move at
This makes me wonder how much Gs was Alto pulling in the movies that the thing was barely able to keep up with him
>>14436612
The ISCs could take about 27.5G max, so he was probably pulling over 30Gs at that point and effectively feeling the remaining Gs after the ISC reached its max.
>>14436571
Not really. The transformation technology is completely human and even the SDF wasn't supposed to be able to transform, but given the ability to do so by human engineers. Pin point barriers are a human invention too, though a human twist using said alien technology. They didn't reverse engineer it though, because there was no indication until Delta that the Protoculture used transformation. The variable fighters didn't really use Overtechnology in their weapons either. Later inventions like EX- Gear, cyborgs, MDEs and so on appear to be human ones too. Even the ISC is based on Protculture tech found in Zentradi units, but much more effective and able to do a lot more than the tech they found.
>>14436624
He was probably pulling closer to 40 or 50G, since he was unlikely to be that effected by 3 or 4G and was acting like Isamu and Guld who were pulling around 20G at times if I recall, with no ISC to soak any up.
>>14428723
>Hey /m/ how would a VF-1 stack up to the RX-78 and vice versa?
VF-1 is late 1990s technology enhanced a little bit with reverse engineered alien technology; RX-78 is 22nd century giant combat robot with compact nuclear reactors, beam weaponry, astounding maneuvrability and psychic newtypes.
There is no contest at all. Gundam wins on all fronts.
>>14430173
It does, however, has energy a conversion armor.
>>14430291
Hayate's withstanded two full clips from a gunpod just fine.
>>14430309
Because it is a downgrade from super clusterfuck that Durandal was, performance wise. And because Keith is a hack and always goes for the weak point.
>>14430312
Late UC suit, like Formula and Victory should be able to put a decent fight even with later, non ISC equipped valkiries. And wing of light make for superb anti missile shield, as macross missile massacre tend to fly on target from one vector anyway.
>>14434489
Which one? Up to Supernova, sure, post, nah. By Frontier valk have 60 to1 thrust to weight ratio of raw acceleration. and can maneuver under those forces just fine.
>>14434591
>VF-171
Wasn't EX variant on par with VF-19?
>>14437401
>Protoculture used transformation
Zero but Birdman was found after VF went into production.
>>14437478
>Maximum Airframe Design Load: 32.5G
for Durandal. Which is kinda weird, considering how durable modern fighter planes are, if one was to exclude human factor.
>>14437543
And Macross bring to the playing field compact fusion reactors for transformable planes, functional energy based reinforce system, beam weaponry, astounding maneuverability especially in atmosphere and psychic songstresses. And Basara.
In space, Gundam has decent chance in winning, especially with beam rifle.
>>14437543
So much ignorance. The VF-1 has two thermonuclear engines, laser and beam weapons, and even higher maneuverability. The thrust to weight ratio of the RX-78 isn't even close to a VF-1's.
>>14437543
> VF-1 is only enhanced a little bit by alien technology
> RX-78 line has a better reactor than a VF-1
> RX-78 line is more maneuverable than a VF-1
Have you even seen either show? That last one is the one that really astounds me. The RX-78 line more maneuverable than a VF? The V2 is probably the only UC Gundam more maneuverable than a VF-1 and even it isn't as maneuverable as late model VFs like the VF-25 where the transformation is functionally instantaneous and can be used to change the units profile and avoid beam weapons even when fired from point blank it's so fast.
>>14437567
> Wasn't EX variant on par with VF-19?
Nope. Not in acceleration at least. It's thrust to weight ratio is about 10, the 19's is around 15. The YF-19's in Plus is anyways. It's about 16 for the normal production model that Docker uses in 7, and about 19 for Basara's custom model. The monkey model he uses in Dynamite only has about 13 or so.
> Maximum airframe load is about 32.5 for Durandal
I imagine it's due to the light weight super materials they're using for all the components that accounts for the low load weight of the variable fighters comapred to real airframes. VFs only weigh about 10 tonnes, which is nothing compared to real air frames. I'd aslo keep in mind that the airframe can shunt about 27.5Gs in to an alternate dimension for several minutes and bleed it out over time, so even if the super light weight metals can't handle as much as a real airframe, they can handle nearly double the stated load using ISC.
>>14437567
>Because it is a downgrade from super clusterfuck that Durandal was, performance wise. And because Keith is a hack and always goes for the weak point.
Of course it was a downgrade from that, every single VF will be for a long time, that one was a one of a kind made to deal with miniature macross space bugs also that weak point exists in every VF that doesn't have a armored cockpit, the only noteworthy thing he did was use his windermerian abilities to read the battle and position himself so he could shoot straight to the cockpit.
Seriously comparing the Durandal to anything is fucking idiotic
>>14428723
Assuming no newtype nonsense, the VF would be the better combat platform. The versatility and mobility of the VF alone make any defense contractor cream their panties. The only advantage that the RX-78 had was its learning computer which we assume would make the RX-78 progressively better the more it sees combat, but as the audience we never could tell if it was the learning computer or Amuro becoming more in tune with his newtype-ism.
>>14436576
everybody knows the gundam wiki is unreliable as fuck you dumb shit trip
>>14439222
Ultimatemark lists it as having Luna Titanium armor at least, using "Mobile Suit Illustrated 2015" as a source along with the various MS Encyclopedias, though it sounds like Mobile Suit Illustrated 2015 might be a MS Encyclopedia itself.
http://www.ultimatemark.com/gundam/mscatalog.html
>>14437567
> Maximum Airframe Design Load: 32.5G for Durandal. Which is kinda weird, considering how durable modern fighter planes are, if one was to exclude human factor.
I think it's weirder still that the VF-22 Sturmvogel II has nearly twice the g-limit of both earlier and later VFs, including it's prototype, the YF-21, at +60/-45G. Every other VF bar the first few like the VF-1 Valkyrie, VF-11 Thunderbolt etc. appear to have about 30G as a limit. And the earlier ones have even lower g-limits at 7 for the VF-1 and 22 for the VF-11.
>>14439256
Mobile Suit Illustrated 2015 does indeed list Luna Titanium as the armor for the MP Guntank.
Note that it also lists Luna Titanium as the armor for all the GM variants in The 08th MS Team as well.
>>14439563
I think the higher G limit is because of that weird arm/leg purging gimmick the 21/22 series had.
>>14439584
There it is. Crix blown the fuck out again.
But can Max see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
>>14430463
>doesn't mean shit when you factor in muzzle veolcity and etc
Post them so we can take them into consideration.
Oh, wait...you can't.
So you're just going to keep insisting that the VF's gun is more powerful while ignoring the fact that you have no evidence to support this.
>>14434617
>Gundam, as far as I am aware, has no equivalent tech.
I fucking DARE you to bring your VF-25 into G-Gundam. You can fold space? Domon can ignore fundamental laws of physics.
>>14439698
Does it matter? People insist it's weaker with no evidence either. They just post the caliber like it's proof while ignoring that not only is it not proof, but that the Zaku II increased the effectiveness it's machine gun by reducing caliber and that even smaller calibers have damaged lunar titanium.
>>14439711
Basara would probably go instead. Does even matter what machine he has really, since he's flown custom and simplified VF-19s and a civilian two seater VF-1 with no apparent issues. And he can ignore physics if needed too. They'd probably just have beers around a campfire though. I want to hear Domon sing.
>>14439721
So let's assume they're of equal power, then.
And a VF gets shot to shit by one while an RX-78 is impervious to it.
Problem?
>>14439698
Did you not read the link posted? It explains everything you need to know about the gunpod.
![4AiJYLLi_400x400[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/k58BLQY.jpg "4AiJYLLi_400x400[2].jpg")
Good lord, macrossfags have problems.
![orig_58652[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/smSue2Y.jpg "orig_58652[1].jpg")
>>14430312
>implying any VF stands a chance against Unicorn
>>14439810
Can the Unicorn carry weaponry that can take out half a planet?
>>14429842
it uses a minovsky reactor. what are you talking about?
>>14439815
Yes, it carries one banana.
Why is it always macrossfags getting competitive about this shit? Do they feel like the underdog because their show isn't as good or as popular or something? Because it's always, always, macrossfags starting it.
Also both of your shows are shit. VFs are dumb. MSes are dumb.
>>14439803
How do you figure
>>14439825
It's just for fun. Calm down Autismo.
>>14439815
Not only that, it can hold up its hand and go "no" to whatever weapon idolfags throw at it because psychoframe. Your only hope is to distract the pilot with pussy.
How high-quality is macross pussy?
>>14439825
Not being as popular is a blessing for macross, as it means it hasn't been done into the ground yet. Just counting the three original Tomino Gundam shows, Gundam has more content that macross.
I love both (UC gundam at least) anyway.
Also you're dumb.
>>14439847
Eh, it's idolshit so it's basically written for pedos. Solidly inferior to gundam pussy.
>>14439847
Banagher is gay though.
>>14439795
> They're equal
> But the Gundam is impervious to it while the VF isnt'
> That's equal isn't it?
>>14439859
>His entire motive is wanting to fuck Audrey
>Gay
He's not gay, just a faggot.
>>14439820
No UC MS has ever had innate ability to scatter particles for stealth and ECM simply from having a minovsky reactor. It's only the ships that ever do it, a Zaku from a non-canon manga that had a massive backpack, or the Victory Gundams which have minovsky flight and drive systems that naturally shit out a massive amount of minovsky particles. Even then, producing a lot of particles doesn't guarantee ECM/stealth effects.
>>14428723
A better question is why VFs look like such shit.
I tried, niggas, I tried to like macross. You know what ruined it for me? Two things. First, really, really stupid looking mecha dumber than the dumbest gundam designs (including shit like the Neo Zeong). Second and even worse, obnoxious underage girls singing, poorly, irritating J-Pop songs. I would love to be proven wrong. I would love to hear something good from macross, but even the new series is dudes dressed and acting like girls while girls sing and do technomagic. It's irredeemable shit and I think less of everyone who likes it.
Also fuck Minmei I hope she die canser.
>>14439847
>le psychoframe is unbeatable meme
It could barely stop a colony laser at 1000% Banana, try stopping the destruction of space itself. Or Spiritia, or Fold Wave magic.
>>14439858
While I have a personal bias towards a select few Gundam girls, Hamanfags need to go and stay go.
>>14439886
I was going to write a response telling you exactly why you're wrong, but then I saw you insult Haman-sama. As Mark Twain said, it's pointless to argue with a faggot.
>>14439858
>hamanfags having good taste
Still hasn't happened yet. Also tell me what's pedo about this idol?
>>14439885
Nobody cares what you think.
>>14439847
It can't actually. Not without outside interference lending it excess power. In the OVA it was Marida that helped him and in CCA it was the close proximity of two pyscoframes (Nu and Sazabi) gathering human will in the area all concentrating on one thing. The guys making it said so, and it's not hard to tell from the OVA itself that was the intent.
>>14439886
>>14439897
What wrong with Haman? She is significantly sane, I mean at least for a zeek shes sane, that's why shes significant. I mean jesus remember char calling her a warmonger and then proceeding to try and blow up the entirety of earth?
>>14439918
She really didn't do anything noteworthy for me. All I remember is her being salty still over Char not wanting to fuck her and her betraying both the AEUG and the Titans. I dropped ZZ after 7 episodes so maybe she actually does something there but I didn't care enough to find out.
>>14439918
Remember Audrey criticizing Full Frontal because his plan to ensure spacenoid dominance wasn't insane enough and didn't destroy Earth?
What a bitch.
![enhanced-17291-1428958788-8[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/amyuz4e.jpg "enhanced-17291-1428958788-8[1].jpg")
>>14439897
She looks like she's fourteen. Is there something you would like to tell us?
>>14439940
I don't actually. I do remember saying that his plan being insane was proof he wasn't Char and that his plan was wrong specifically because it meant Earth would get screwed and there'd probably be another war in a few generations with Earth as the new Zeon though. Is that what you mean?
>>14439896
Never said anything about Haman, it's just that Hamanfags are cancerous. So explain to me how psychoframe is instant win conditions all the time every time, fag, or don't bother replying.
>>14439946
>Gundamfags arguing against pedophilia
Nice try Char.
>>14439946
>Makina looks 14
Are you retarded?
>>14439948
She also later ensured that there would be another war a few generations down the line by revealing the contents of Laplace's box as though the additional line of the original Feddy constitution would ever have a meaningful impact.
>>14439865
The GU-11 is shown to shred a VF-1.
The Zaku Machinegun harmlessly bounces off the Gundam.
If the guns are equal, then the Gundam's armor is vastly superior. The only way to argue that the armor is even roughly equal is to insist, without evidence, that the GU-11 is far more powerful.
>>14439973
Which macrossfags will do, without fail, because it is their nature.
>>14439973
>If the guns are equal, then the Gundam's armor is vastly superior. The only way to argue that the armor is even roughly equal is to insist, without evidence, that the GU-11 is far more powerful.
See http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrosstechman/tech-gunpod.html
>>14439960
Thirteen maybe. Girls mature faster than boys.
>>14439986
Your level of thinking is about that age so I guess you'd know.
>>14439973
If the Gouf Custom's 35mm gun can destroy a Luna Titanium armored Guntank than the VF-1's 55mm gunpod should be able to destroy the Gundam's armor.
>>14439967
Revealing the box had no impact and didn't contribute to any war though.
>>14439973
Again, Zeon improved the Zaku II's machine gun by reducing the caliber from 120mm to 90mm(though the Dom and other units used them too if I recall) and a 35mm gun was capable of damaging Luna Titanium as well. So let's assume that the caliber doesn't really mean squat instead. Problems?
>>14439885
The purpose of this thread is not to complain about Macross or gundam, but rather to discuss powerlevel shit.
I get that you don't like idolshit, but other people do. Macross isn't bad, it's just not for you.
>fuck Minmei
Yeah I'll give you that one. She's a shit.
>>14440010
Don't bother. He probably thinks machine guns and gatling cannons are the same thing.
I just realized some VF's list a cruising speed, so we actually know an approximate top speed for some of them. Which is interesting. The VF-1 is mach 2.71 at 10,000m and mach 3.87 at 30,000m+. Which works out to about 2000m/ph in atmosphere and about 3000m/ph in space.
Basara's Custom Fire Valkyrie kind of blows my mind a little because it can reach 19,200mp/h+ in space (it's listed as +, so that may be only a lower limit depending on acceleration since space has nothing to slow him down or something), and can accelerate at at least 68,000m/min - which would be covering 23 football pitches a second. It could be higher, but I'm just going off maximum rate of climb, and that might not be a real indication of acceleration since climbing to exit velocity would mean combating gravity and other things acceleration doesn't account for in space. It means it could reach from New York to Paris in under an hour, and in space could reach the Moon in under 13 hours. It takes a rocket about 3 days to make that trip in real life. And the VF-25, VF-27, YF-29 and VF-31 are all presumably faster again, though they have no listed crusing speed for 30,000m+ that I can find to say how fast.
I've no idea how you'd really calculate proper acceleration for them though, since most of them don't list a maximum rate of climb and converting thrust to weight in to real acceleration is beyond me. Someone might be able to do it though. Putting aside the dickwaving contest between the two franchises however, I think this is kind of fun just to learn something about at least one franchise I like and marvel at the made up numbers.
>>14440850
I tried looking for some speeds for several Gundams for comparison out of curiosity and couldn't find anything substantial. There was a decade old thread on the Mechatalk forums that listed some speeds, but it was only off memory and had no source. There was also conflicting info provided on at least one suit (The Zeta's waverider form attaining either Mach 27 or Mach 40). It was apparently going off a Gundam Fact File, but I can't find anything on it to corroborate it, so there's really no way to say how true it is.
Still, fun fuel for the fire I suppose and someone else may be able to find more info on either set.
>>14440850
30,000m+ does not equal "in space" which is generally considered to be about 100,000m.
>>14440979
That's why it's 30000+, because it can use its full speed above that height and while it includes some atmosphere, it's thin and also includes space. So it's reasonable to take that as it's in space mode.
>>14440991
In space a valk or gundam top speed is only limited by exhaust velocity. Even with our IRL primitive rocket technology we accelerate sattelites up to 27,000kph to get them into orbit.
The top speed of a valkyrie is likely hundreds of thousands of miles per hour if not higher since the propulsion is nuclear.
>>14441026
The propulsion is nuclear fusion from what I understand, but even rockets that accelerate to that kind of speed to reach escape velocity don't maintain it. Which is why trips to the Moon take days, not hours. You only need to pass 31km (31,000m) to have gone past 99% of Earth's atmosphere. The rest is so thin as to be negligible.
>>14439981
This pretty much shows that the vf-1 55mm gunpod is far more advanced than gundam projectile weaponry. Gundam weapons seem to max out around 2000m/s while the gu-11 packs a whopping 6000m/s
on the vf-25g the 55mm gun can further boost this to 7500m/s magnetically.
>>14440850
>converting thrust to weight in to real acceleration is beyond me
Thrust to weight ratios are literally acceleration, one Newton of thrust accelerates a one kg object at one m/s^2 and you divide that by the mass of the plane to get m/s^2 only. The empty figure is given as the absolute maximum acceleration of the plane with no fuel or weapons. I generally just assume the mass of the valk is doubled when fully loaded for typical acceleration figures.
>>14439973
Have you considered that the Zaku machine gun is just really, really shitty?
I mean, the Gundam was almost destroyed by a couple of land mines strapped onto it by a bunch of Zeon guys in their pickup. This was treated as a narrowly averted Gundam-destroying event.
Its hard to imagine that being a threat to the Gundam, but not Zaku machine guns, unless the shells that the guns use are just really crappy.
>>14441181
You also need to consider gunpods are three to five barreled cannons while most machine guns in Gundam tend to be single barreled. There's quite a big difference in fire rate there.
>>14441227
Isn't the Gunpod technically a rapid-fire railgun array, as opposed to a machine gun? Or am I thinking of a later generation Macross weapon?
>>14441258
That one and the gu-11 are chemically propelled. Even michaels 55mm sniper rifle uses chemically propelled bullets with optional linear acceleration. 6200m/s chemical only , 7500m/s boosted apparently
>>14441258
I know the VF-25 gunpod is mentioned having railgun properties. The VF-1 gunpod does have the firing speed far surpassing modern weapons so it's practically in the railgun category.
