About a year ago I started watching Gundam. I really enjoyed 0079, enjoyed Zeta, and mostly enjoyed ZZ. Just now I finished CCA. Ever since 0079 I felt a decline in the quality of the shows to the point where CCA is just slightly above average. Is there any Gundam that can restore the love I had like when I was watching 0079?
I dunno Turn A is p dope
>>14411954
SDF Macross
>>14411960
This. I'd suggest you keep watching though. Although none may really match or top 0079 for you, many are still good within their own right.
>decline in quality
>improved writing
>improved episode structure including actual story arcs
>improved animation
>improves osts
>only started watching last year
Wow, way to be edgy there newfag, but you ain't fitting in. If you like stock footage abuse and monster of the week setups go watch some toku shit.
>>14411990
Gundam isn't the only mecha series in the world
>>14412039
But it is one of the few that doesn't completely shit itself beyond the halfway point for the sake of a tweeest. Looking at you Nadesico, Big O, Geass, etc.
Unicorm
CCA is actually a masterpiece. It doesn't surprise me that people don't like it though, since it's written at a higher level than other Gundam stuff.
>>14412292
Care to explain?
>>14411954
I just finished turn a and it was probably one of the best gundam related things I've seen. The ending is better than 0079s.
wing was the peak of gundam
you cannot prove me wrong
>>14412310
It has some of the best characterizations of any Gundam and the most relevant and intellectual political commentary. People get confused about Char's character, but you really can't take any part of him at face value, especially anything he says. Basically the guy is an idealist, narcissist, and misanthrope with a little bit of an Oedipus complex thrown in.
All the previous Gundams mostly drew from WW2 with Zeta diverging from that a bit, but it was the same sort of narrative of evil empire vs the good guys even if it tried to make both sides seem balanced. CCA truly draws from the post WW2 political landscape.
I made a post about it before and I'm trying to find it in the archive but I'm not even sure what board I posted it on.
>>14411990
>improved writing
>improved episode structure including actual story arcs
>improves osts
We did not watch the same Zeta Gundam
>>14411954
>Is there any Gundam that can restore the love I had like when I was watching 0079?
No. Maybe Turn-A or 0080. Everything after Turn-A has been panderbait meant to move plastic.
If you like the old anime look and tone of 0079, you can watch the old '80s Macross TV show. Be warned, though, that just like Gundam, the Macross series also have a general decline in its story telling in the later works.
>>14412314
>Turn-X separating and regrouping
muh dick.
>>14412336
Your making your rounds today, anon.
>>14411954
Watch War in the Pocket. Its arguably better than 0079.
>>14411990
>monster of the week setups
That's literally Zeta
WHICH NEW MOBILE SUIT/ARMOR WILL THE TITANS USE TO JOB AGAINST AEUG? FIND OUT NEXT WEEK ON MOBILE SUIT ZETA GUNDAM!
>>14413866
0/10
>>14413866
At least it wasn't as bad as ZZ
>>14412292
This post comes off as the height of smug pretentiousness.
> Of course people don't like it, it's just too well written for them
If you're the same anon I think you are then I doubt you mean it that way, but that is a bad way to word it.
>>14412336
I would personally disagree about it having relevant or intellectual political commentary. Referencing a political situation of any kind isn't commentary, because commentary implies saying something. And beyond saying that both sides are kind of dicks and constant warfare tends to bankrupt nations I don't think Char's Counterattack really said anything about any particular factions, real or imagined. It just mostly about Char and Amuro, sometimes through the lens of other characters to illustrate parts of their character.
>>14412316
wing is underrated
G Gundam
>>14412336
>Oedipus complex
I don't like how people keep on repeating it.
What do you mean by it? Could it be that you don't understand it's meaning or am I the one e
who doesn't understand?
>>14422380
He wants to do lewd things with Lalah and says she could have been a mother to him. Figure the rest out.
>>14422406
No, please. Explain it to me like to an idiot. I could never really understand what people are accusing Char of. Are you implying that there is something unnatural in his feelings about Lalah.
Gundam 0080 & Turn A Gundam are on par with 0079 in my opinion.I think X is great too, but I'm sure most people won't agree with me on that.
>>14422427
>"hey char who is that girl hanging around you"
>"let's say she's my sister and we'll leave it at that. Okay Lalah now let's go behind this corner and swap spit"
>not impure
bellri need not respond
Oedipus complex = romantic feelings towards your mother. Supposedly, it is usually manifested subconsciously as overprotectiveness, jealousy, wanting to bang people who are very much like your mother, Bates Motel, etc. Basically what you'd expect from someone who has to consciously deny their sexual feelings toward the target. Char does not have this. Char seems to have a boatload of issues, which are similar but mostly just leave him (a) looking for maternal aspects in other women to fill the gap left by his mother, which is why lalah could have been a mother figure to him (b) unable to form lasting relationships with women due to the way he treats them, for someone similar see Gendo Ikari tfw so great in bed that you get a mother to let her lesbian scientist daughter die (c) pathological liar, pretender; a wearer-of-masks if you will (d) lack of empathy, easy of use other people as tools for your own gain.
Char is fucked up in many different ways, the Oedipus thing is just a popular meme, kind of like him being a pedophile, but it doesn't make the joke any less funny or any less revealing of his true nature.forgot pic
>>14412336
>CCA truly draws from the post WW2 political landscape.
I'm intrigued.
Explain this to me.
>>14422638
>let's say she's my sister *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*
Yeah, because announcing to everybody that you are fucking your subordinate officers is such a great idea. Kycilia would rejoice.
>the Oedipus thing is just a popular meme
So you admit it's wrong.
>looking for maternal aspects in other women to fill the gap left by his mother
Ah, more memes.
>which is why Lalah could have been a mother figure to him
Still wrong.
>pathological liar, pretender; a wearer-of-masks if you will , lack of empathy, easy of use other people as tools for your own gain.
Those accounts have been strongly exaggerated.
>>14411954
Yeah, the movie versions.
>>14422676
Yeah, I wonder too. If anything it reminds me more of the pre WW2 situation.
>Yeah, lets give Germany those loans. What could possibly happen?
>Yeah, lets let Germany rearm. What could possibly happen?
>Yeah, lets let Germany annex Austria. What could possibly happen?
>Yeah, lets let Germany invade Czechoslovakia. They promised it's for the last time.
But then, I don't know that much about history.
>>14422685
>Yeah, because announcing to everybody that you are fucking your subordinate officers is such a great idea. Kycilia would rejoice.
That part was a joke, autismo-kun
>So you admit it's wrong.
I wasn't the one he replied to first, not to mention I literally said "Char does not have this.", so read the post before you embarrass yourself.
>Ah, more memes.
>Still wrong.
She was a women who could have been a mother to him, what more do you want him to say?
>pathological liar, pretender
Neverbetrayedanyone.jpg
Misfortuneofyourbirth.jpg
Beambazookaheadshot.jpg
>a wearer-of-masks if you will
4 names, 4 identities
>easy of use other people as tools for your own gain
Quess "Char didn't want to have to act like a father to her so he put her in a mobile armor and sent her to die and then admitted to Amuro that he used her as a tool" Paraya (fun fact: Paraya = pariah, aka someone who is hated or outcast)
>>14411954
X is really good. I haven't seen Victory but from what I know it sounds up your alley. I'll get shit for this but IBO is really engaging.
>>14422720
IBO is okay for like the first 13 episodes. But after that it gets really bad, really fast.
>>14422713
>That part was a joke
I see. Indeed, fucking your subordinates is a despicable crime that should be punished with death. Truly worse than Hitler.
>She was a woman who could have been a mother to him, what more do you want him to say?
So your entire interpretation of a character is based on a single line you don't understand? Excellent.
>Neverbetrayedanyone.jpg
>Misfortuneofyourbirth.jpg
>Beambazookaheadshot.jpg
M-muh Zabis.He wasn't even talking about them in the Neverbetrayedanyone.jpg scene.
>4 names, 4 identities
He had a hard life.
>he didn't want to have to act like a father to her so he put her in a mobile armor and sent her to die and then admitted that he used her as a tool
Stop posting and go back to sleep, Amuro. But don't forget to check if Char is hiding under the bed first. The evil scheming bastard is coming to get you!
>fun fact: Paraya = pariah, aka someone who is hated or outcast
Nice trivia. Very enriching.
>>14422791
>I see. Indeed, fucking your subordinates is a despicable crime that should be punished with death. Truly worse than Hitler.
When was this suggested
>So your entire interpretation of a character is based on a single line you don't understand? Excellent.
When was my entire interpretation? And explain what it means to you, then, I'd love to hear it.
>M-muh Zabis.He wasn't even talking about them in the Neverbetrayedanyone.jpg scene.
Okay, so Zabis aren't people and all the other zeeks he killed to achieve his revenge also don't count. Good to know.
>He had a hard life.
Which gave him sociopathic tendencies, yes.
>Stop posting and go back to sleep, Amuro. But don't forget to check if Char is hiding under the bed first. The evil scheming bastard is coming to get you!
Watch the movie.
>Nice trivia. Very enriching.
thanks
>>14422909
>When was this suggested
Sorry I read it as "that's the joke". I need to go to sleep too.
>When was my entire interpretation?
I like to exaggerate stuff sometimes. But a lot of people tend to dismiss Char because of this line, just interpreting it literally (whatever that's supposed to mean) without giving it a second thought.
> So Zabis aren't people.
He had a hard life which gave him sociopathic tendencies, yes.
>Watch the movie.
You watch the movie.
>And explain what it means to you, then.
What do you expect me to explain all of Tomino's views on sex, the conflict between men and women, adulthood and family in a several sentences or a single post?
But just to cue you in. Imagine pushing 30 and still not having anything much stable and certain in your life. Hypothetically how would you feel? Getting older is not much fun especially if you are on your own. Old people are boring like that.
>>14423068
I'd like to go back to the original Japanese line and make sure it can't mean "she could have been a mother [to my kids and by proxy] to me!" just to be sure. Maybe it could bring an eventual end to the meme.
>>14422427
>No, please. Explain it to me like to an idiot. I could never really understand what people are accusing Char of. Are you implying that there is something unnatural in his feelings about Lalah.
Picture this : you're banging your girlfriend and right out of the blue you say to her "hey darling I wish your were like a mother to me". The least she would do is to look at you as some crazy dude with unresolved mommy issues.
>>14423101
Nah, he pretty literally says
"She was a woman that could have become a mother to me"
私の母上になってくれるかもしれないだった
or something.
It's just a Tominoism. Maybe if you watch some other Tomino things besides Gundam. I'm not sure what exactly. But there are a certain patterns.
Tomino has his views about women and mothers that would be a little bit absurd to explain without any introduction.
He could have made Char say "I loved her,"
or "I wanted to marry her"(though that would be kind of far fetched) but he wanted to make a broader statement than that.It's not just about Lalah either. Or just about Char. Though it's also interesting to thing about the private implications that is not the main point.
>>14423169
My interpretation was that he wanted Lalah to teach him to be a proper newtype and that because of that view of wanting her to guide him he viewed her as akin to a mother since he lost his own at a young age. He implies that he wants Quess to do that in Lalah's place during the film while having his conversation with Nanai if I recall, but he never feels the same connection to her. She's just a fill in for Lalah, and not a real replacement to him.
What makes me think it's meant to be that most though is that Quess, Gyunei and Hathaway obviously fill a triangle and mirror the Lalah, Char and Amuro triangle, with Gyunei making it explicit that he's interested in Quess specifically because he wants her to teach him to be a proper newtype. He says so plain as day when they're chatting outside the party and she think he's hitting on her because of it before he explains that fighting killed his parents and he doesn't want it to happen again so he wants to be a proper newtype who can lead people in to the future and so on.
He views Quess on the kind of level I imagine Char views Lalah, and Char's line just seems to be him expressing his desire to be able to connect with people properly and be a real newtype in a weird way - not anything to do with Tomino's views on sex or women or whatever.
The irony being that if he'd just stopped trying to kill people and instead to help them he would have had more success, as seen in Zeta. Oh well.
>>14423205
What, dude. Are people really that bad in picking up sexual subtext in Tomino's works or is it that everyone on /m/ is an autistic virgin?(no offence meant)
>Gyunei making it explicit that he's interested in Quess specifically because he wants her to teach him to be a proper newtype
What! Are you crazy? He is a hormonal teenager. He wants to fuck her. That's why he's having jealous fits about Quess liking Char more than him.
>He views Quess on the kind of level I imagine Char views Lalah
That's for sure.
>he wanted Lalah to teach him to be a proper newtype
What? When did he want to be a proper newtype? It's true he was moping around about not being one but that is because he saw it as an inherent flaw in his character.
He has some sort of Lalah quilt complex or rather "I'm so shitty to women" quilt complex that is centered on Lalah for various understandable reasons.
>he wants Quess to do that
I don't remember such a line. Help me out. I'm too lazy to check right now.
>>14423356
> What! Are you crazy? He is a hormonal teenager. He wants to fuck her. That's why he's having jealous fits about Quess liking Char more than him.
No, it isn't. He literally says that exact thing and then goes on to explain that he wants her to teach him to be a real newtype. He probably wanted both, but he was most interested in her as a newtype, not as a sex object.
> When did he want to be a real newtype.
He doesn't flat out say it. It's my interpretation based on the similarity between Quess and Lalah, on what Gyunei wants and how he mirrors Char, on the things Char does and so on.
> I don't remember such a line. Help me out.
See the attached pic.
>>14423468
You are way too naive. Do you always take the things people say at face value?
What do you expect that Gyunei would say to her?
"I like you.","Go out with me.".Something like that. He is not that alpha. He is just trying to impress her in his lame teenager way. Which is why she is so bored with him. She wants someone cool and adultlike that can appreciate her for grown independent woman she is.
>on the things Char does and so on
Like?
>>14423528
No, I don't always take people at their word. If I did, I'd take your word you don't mean to offend for a start, when your posting style is that of someone making no attempt to not offend, beyond the empty platitude of "I don't mean to offend" at least, which means nothing on it's own.
If someone's actions match their words though, I don't think there's any reason to doubt them. And Gyunei's actions did match his words, including actually going and getting cyber newtype enhancements because he wants to be a newtype to prevent things like his parent's deaths from happening to other people. With his desire to study Quess just being a furtherance of that. He also never flipped out or got crazy jealous of Char, not even showing any interest in Quess in their previous scene together. Neither is she bored of him in that scene. If anything, she flirts a little with him, then he reveals that, they have a few more lines and the scene ends with them leaving if I recall.
Why wouldn't he be honest with her though? Especially when she's just asked if he's interested in her in a very plain manner. He's a teen, but he's 19, not 15. Being so honest isn't a matter of being an alpha, especially not when you've just been that honest about your life story.
> Like?
Well for a start he calls Quess special just seconds after talking about how Lalah had found compassion in Amuro during the One Year War because such deep connections are only possible between newtypes and how he had wanted her to guide him.
>>14422427
I always assumed he meant someone who was supposed to love him unconditionally and that he could love unconditionally as well.
>>14411954
F91
>>14412314
turn x and turn a are so fucking OP.
is there a series recommendation image like they have for Rider
>>14423997
No, I don't mean to offend you. Why would I want to offend someone I don't even know. I'm just mildly irritated and too used to 4chan colloquialisms.
>I don't care about sexual themes or shit.
Maybe you should. Why would you willfully ignore something that clearly exists and the author always tries to make a point about?
In any case stop trying to force the characters fit some preconceived tropes about the "correct" character motivation. If a person is acting in an irrational way they probably don't have a sound logical explanation for this so you should stop trying to find one too. People act on their deepest subconscious desires, sometimes with the flimsiest of excuses. Even something like "his desire to be able to connect with people properly and be a real newtype in a weird way" is way too abstract to be a subconscious desire. It could be a conscious desire but I doubt Char is that stupid. He knows only too well what he is and what he is not.
Gyunei is a hormonal teenager. He has an obvious crush on Guess and throws jealous tantrums. That doesn't invalidate anything else we know about him. People are complex.
Tomino's characters are human.The always emphasizes this. They are men and women before anything. That's what makes them interesting.
Char really believed what he was doing was the right thing. This is true no matter what. But deep inside the fear of being forever alone,the shame of being a total cuck was the most unbearable because he is a man. I don't see anything embarrassing or hard to understand. Quite the opposite.
Remember Carozzo who donned a mask because of the shame of his wife leaving him.
Remember Haruru who shot her sister in the face because she had dared find happiness as a woman with the enemy while Haruru's own lover was killed in action."Why can't I be a woman?" was her reasoning.
I mention those two characters in particular because I find them to have a lot in common with Char but most Tomino characters are like that.
>>14426006
I never said you meant to offend, only that you were taking no efforts not to offend. There is a difference.
I'm also not ignoring sex as a motivator, only saying it was neither the singular motivation or even the primary one. Which it almost never is with Tomino. It wasn't with Amuro, it wasn't with Kamille, it wasn't with Judau, it wasn't with Bright, it wasn't with any of the Zabis, it wasn't with Haman, it wasn't with Scirocco and so on. Haman was the closest and it was only a secondary motivation with her.
I don't see how I was trying to force a character to fit a correct motivation either, when I only ever gave my own interpretation, used stuff within the film to justify it and never tried to make anyone else agree with it, only explain it further since you asked. I didn't say it was a sound logical explanation for that matter. I do think that subconscious desires can be complex since you say it, but I don't think that this particular one is subconscious in the case of Char.
Gyunei isn't a particular hormonal teenager. He doesn't throw tantrums or get particularly jealous. No, not even when he says he'll surpass Char. There is definitely some jealousy there, but I wouldn't say it was a tantrum or anything given that he didn't do anything particularly violent or uncontrolled there. I never said him wanting to become a newtype invalidated anything or didn't make him complex - that's entirely your own judgement and one I disagree with.
I've no idea why you're bringing up Char believing he was doing the right thing, since I never said he was or wasn't. I wouldn't characterize him as a cuck or someone who worried about that either. That is, again, your own view on the matter and nothing I want to touch frankly.
>>14424135
Buddy, I think you might be onto something...
>>14426416
I don't even know what we are arguing about anymore.
I just wanted to point out that Char doesn't have any sort of strange, unnatural or twisted sexual or non-sexual desires either related or not related to his mom and is a perfectly normal man in that respect and that the way he feels about women and people in general is perfectly relatable and understandable in his situation and there is nothing unnatural, stupid, embarrassing or pathetic in his feelings about, interest in or actions in relation to Lalah or any other woman and that the things he actually wants are the same things any average normal person would want no matter what their situation.
Some people seem to have a problem with understanding this.
How did we even end up talking about Gyunei?
>>14428309
Gyunei would probably inject himself into random conversations about Char to try to get into Quess's panties
>>14426416
Also on a side note when I say sexual themes i am not talking about sex in itself. I am talking about the relationship between men and women which is way more complex than that.
The main focus of Tomino's work is the relationships between people and the relationships he cares about most are:
a)the conflict between adults and children
b)the conflict between men and women
If you want to you could say that wants to explore the family as the most important unit of society.
In this sense for most of these characters you listed sexual themes are very important.
Amuro, Kamille and Judau are our protagonists. We follow their maturation from children into adults. Do you not think that their relationships with women are integral to understanding that?
Bright and Mirai are interesting in that they seem to be the only mature and stable adults among the main cast.
How can you say that Scirocco is not related to sexual themes when the one of main points of his existence in Zeta is to explore the above mentioned conflict between men and women.
>it was only a secondary motivation for her
What is that even supposed to mean.Can't you see how her relationships with men formed her as a person? How is that "secondary"? Which reminds me that once I read that Sakakibara said in some interview that she once has some sort of argument with Tomino about Haman and he was like "You are voicing a virgin." Don't you think it is interesting to think about this as his concept of her character. Things like that matter to him.
I just think if you miss things like this you are missing a big chunk of the point of the story.
>>14413902
Nothing really is.
>>14428309
I don't know either considering I never said a word about Char having sexual desires of any kind, natural or otherwise. Nor do I believe he has unnatural ones.
> Do you not think that their relationships with women are integral to understanding that?
I don't think they're the greatest contributing factor to them maturing or their greatest goal. I think those things certainly exist, are important and worthy of discussion - I just don't think they're as important to them during the show as their desire to end the war they're in, to improve things, even if only a little for themselves and their friends and so on.
> How can you say that Scirocco is not related to sexual themes when the one of main points of his existence in Zeta is to explore the above mentioned conflict between men and women.
I never said he wasn't related to sexual themes, only that it wasn't his primary motivation. Which it isn't. That's power. It's the primary motivation of most Gundam villains, Haman included. She wanted Char, and later Judau. Not as much as she wanted to lead a new Zabi regime though. She chose that over them every time it came up, and with Char it was never even a question or struggle on her part. That's why I said it was secondary to her. Because it's literally secondary in her goals and things that drive her/motivations.
> I just think if you miss things like this
I think you need to realize that I've said several times I've said that I'm not dismissing sex or sexuality as a factor in the actions of any given character and that I've only ever said it wasn't their singular or even primary motivation. There's a massive difference between saying someone isn't motivated by or looking for sex/sexuality and that they're not only or not primarily motivated by it.
>>14428423
Except Victory...
CCA is an odd movie, because it seems awkward at first but takes a second/third watch and/or absorption of other side materials to fully appreciate. I think tomino's writing just isn't suited for the briefness a movie has.
>>14429590
Take your shit taste with you when you leave
>>14429687
>Unironically liking that shitshow.
Pls KYS
>>14429713
>unironically having shit taste
>unironically using kys
>>14429567
At this point I am not even talking about sex or sexual themes anymore but the way you describe things sounds like you think people are motivated by some sort of abstract ideas. You need to look at things at a lower level. Wanting something like to "lead a new Zabi regime" is just an abstract idea, not a natural drive.
What you identify as a "primary motivation" is an abstract idea that the subject pursues in order to preserve their integrity. This idea is a compound of their natural inclinations, their background, formative experiences and the influence that other people have had over them. Your "primary motivation" is just an idea the subject consciously identifies with. It exists only on superficial level.
When this "primary motivation" and the actual desires are at odds people tend to act irrationally.
I am not an expert on psychology so I wont argue with you any longer for fear of making myself look even more stupid than I already did but if you refuse to accept this level of reasoning you are going to miss a lot of things about MSG and Zeta and completely fail to understand CCA.
It just bothers me when people do that. It's just a matter of changing your point of view.
>>14429879
I'd just like to point out that you've yet to actually point out anything I've missed beyond your own interpretation of events from the different entries. Maybe you should change your point of view from worrying that other people might miss something and accepting that other people find different things when viewing the same stimuli?
A desire for power, especially power to protect yourself, to command others and to rule is not abstract. Nor is it somehow less shameful than a desire to fuck, so that you'd cloak one in the other simply to hide it not only from yourself but from others. People like to have power. It is and always has been a natural drive, often derived from a desire to protect yourself due to experiences in your post, but natural all the same.
>>14429879
>>14430041
You guys have been arguing for 2 days now. There comes a point where you need to know when to stop.
>>14413866
That's retarded
Are you implying every episode is just a fight with a new mobile suit on a blank white canvas?
>>14430656
Not him, but it sure feels like a good solid 1/4 of the show is episodes where everybody sorties out into empty space/ocean/wilderness, the Titans show up in a new fancy mobile suit, and then everybody fights until a named character on either side gets hit, and then everyone goes home.
>>14411954
Jump ship and watch Patlabor.
>>14422638
>(a) looking for maternal aspects in other women to fill the gap left by his mother
That's pretty close to the lacanian version of the oedipus complex tho.
>>14430789
Fot that matter when did he look for maternal aspects in any woman?
>>14430041
Maybe what I am talking about is the difference between realism and naturalism. Tomino's outlook is closer to the naturalistic.
Arguing about something like that in general terms on a children's image board is useless though.
>>14430784
Movies or TV?
