Viability?
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You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
So I love mechs as much as the same person but can they actually hope to compete with tanks. Is there a single actual reason I want to believe in mechs but I just can't/
>>14411129
I want /k/ to fucking leave,
>>14411140
This is literally a board about mechs.
>>14411185
what does that have to do with wanting /k/ to leave
I always want /k/ to leave, all the time
>>14411205
I'm still desperate for any justification of a large humanoid technological piece in military field.
>>14411295
Here's your (you).
>>14411140
I echo this statement.
>14411129
>14411185
>14411295
You are a faggot. You do not deserve my (you)s. Other anons should not give you (you)s. Now fuck off.
The best justification for a large humanoid technological piece in the military field is BECAUSE IT'S COOL.
>>14411129
You don't have to believe in robots anymore than you don't have to believe in warp drive or Jedi or magic to enjoy other things.
Robots are cool. They look cool doing cool things. That's all you need.
>>14411295
There is none.
Sure you can bullshit one but at the end of the day, robots are there because they look cool. End of story.
>>14411295
If they actually found a way to make them as mobile as they are in their shows? I guess the all terrain factor could be a benefit, but the bipedal locomotion/propulsion of such a large object is an extreme hindrance to any kind of efficient operation.
But outside of maybe Macross, most mecha shows have some kind of technological gimp that fucks with long range guided weapons, making way for close combat, where the mechs of their respective universes excel.
As far as battlefield feasibility, I kind of liked Full Metal Panic's portrayal, where tanks, helicopters, and aircraft still present a huge threat to the Arm Slaves, and the latter are usually reserved for operations that require a level of precision and tactics that more conventional forces can't fulfill as effectively, like Special Forces, but upscaled. It's still fantastical as hell, but it was a nice touch to see conventional forces remaining practical.
>>14411411
I guess that makes a fair amount of sense
>>14411411
>no mention of Dougram
C'mon.
>>14411411
True there but I think Gasaraki did it best, until all the magic shit later
>>14411129
No they can't.
Thankfully fiction exists to skirt past real life.
>>14412024
>literally just a tank with none of the advantages of a tank
>>14412071
You seen Dougram?
And what has the general point of this thread been, in the first place?
At any rate I just really really like Crab Gunners. Here, this Duey should be more to your taste. Dougram is very much a series in which combined arms are important.
>>14412053
Hey I liked some of the magic shit in Gasaraki, the Kugai and Kai stuff where cool at least in my opinion, different strokes dude. Gasaraki still has some of my favorite mecha designs.
Being like any other soldier while also being able to wield anti-aircraft weapons, and other guns of the like? Being able to navigate complex terrain, being able to pick things up and move them, etc.
So basically more universal usage than a tank, which is typically tied to 1-2 guns, couldn't possible travel through marshlands or climb a mountainside, etc, can't move heavy obstacles or rescue people from under them in combat zones, etc.
Now, this all only applies to 1-1 mobility and versatility to a human, just on a larger scale.
>>14411295
https://web.archive.org/web/20110831182631/http://www.major-arcana.net/zanaikin/2010/08/the-military-mecha-isnt-just-a-fantasy/
>>14411295
>I'm still desperate for any justification of a large humanoid technological piece in military field.
Why are you desperate?
Are they going to pass a budget for a mecha unit in pentagon and you are going to block it anyway?
>>14411129
>but can they actually hope to compete with tanks
>aka how to get 200+ replies on /m/ without effort
Nobody knew how flying will do any good against those giant castles.
Similarly, only time will tell.
After that , wonder on things which are real instead of getting worked up on how fictional things that have no actual physical spec (and under the territory of creator's imagination where each iteration comes up with it's own bullshit each time) with real life time tested things.
In short - pic related.
![lockheed-martin-hulc-expskeleton[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TYPRxiv.jpg "lockheed-martin-hulc-expskeleton[1].jpg")
>>14411129
Infantry power armor is probably going to happen.
![us-military-develops-robocop-armour-for-soldiers1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/K58Q5e2.jpg "us-military-develops-robocop-armour-for-soldiers1[1].jpg")
>Would you like to know more?
Growing up playing mechwarrior, I dont see why they wouldn't be viable considering they would be able to traverse terrain that a tank wouldn't be able to.
Why compete with tanks when you can compete with everything at once and beat them all.
This remember me of MGS Peace Walker, where Kojima tries really hard to give bipedal tanks a meaning.
In the end, it's about "Terrain", moving trough mountains and shit.
>>14412893
like
>>14412893
I'm a bit concerned you make your decisions on what is or isn't viable based on videogames. They're more often than not unaccurate to how real life works, you know.
>>14412984
Yet you haven't pointed out why it isn't viable. tanks can't go over jagged terrain or shit with bigger dips, a mech would be able to. Just because it's from a game doesn't mean shit, it's the concept that matters.
But you're probably just shitposting so whatever.
![1350640784821[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/yu7fsW7.jpg "1350640784821[1].jpg")
Some /tg/ autist concluded that a bunch of ISIS tier trucks could overwhelm and take down a Battlemech
>>14411129
No. There's just no real point to having humanoid or bipedal mecha in real life.
The only reason the mecha genre even exists is because enough people think that giant robots are cool.
>Even wanting bipedal when you can have quadrupedal or more
>>14413616
>his Zoid only has four legs
laughinggirls.jpg
>>14411140
/k/ would just laugh at this thread.
>>14411129
Ladies and Gentlemen, it's time to sit your ass down and bear witness to a practical bipedal weapons platform for the 21'st century!
But how could it replace the tank? What about x2 law? Frontal profile ? Please people please, these questions will be answered in time.
Now! What has the speed and weapons payload of a chopper?
The main gun and terrain traversing ability of a tank?
The Vtol and Top-Down battle advantage of a Jet?
The Bipedal diversity and quick reload/resupply of Infantry?
All with the latest integrated electronics and armour of any standard vehicle?
Why it's the armoured walking gun platform mk11 HIGH-Macs or
GUNGRIFFON.
>>14414598
Gungriffon is a variable weapons platform. Ideal in any environment, it can perform the role of any number of offensive or defensive mission requirements. It is especially perfect for replacing entire standard tank and vehicle platoons with a single or paired number of units. Excelling in anti-vehicular and anti-infantry roles, A single Gungriffon can take out the average latest generation tank in just a single shot. It is typically deployed with at least one Combat Control Vehicle, though this is not necessary.
#1 WEAPONS
The typical Gungriffon has a diverse weapons payload consisting of:
1 30mm auto-cannon with variable ammunition payload of 350 rounds
2 12 round(6x2) missile launchers for standard atm/aam in armoured blow-out capable containers with controlled shutters for added protection
3 150 scatter burst shrapnel or HE grenade multi-launchers located in shoulder pylons (15x10 round tubes metal storm type electric firing chain)
4 Semi-automatic combination controlled 120mm smooth bore cannon. Externally mounted suspension system with a 90 round ammunition box. Recoil channelled through both conventional in system springs and HIGH-Macs arm pneumatics. In the event of catastrophic ammo explosion secondary panels disgorge blast away from machine and cockpit, mounted grip points ensure in the field reload capability from the comfort of the cockpit, fully utilizing the manipulators, no external personnel or equipment required.
5 Laser linked wide range support fire target designator for off-sit ordnance guiding to target can use on the fly link-in to already launched missiles or specific ordered artillery.
>>14414602
#2 ABILITIES
1 integrated night vision camera and laser designator/ optical package
2 Standard compatibility with most modern ablative and traditional armour. As well as integrated anti-missile defence (IR flairs).
3 Built in GPS/Mapping electronics package, as well as Line.Of.Sight. And radio communication and command support, for in battle information transmission to any available local units(UAV/CCV/MBT etc...)
4 Standard walking speed of 30kmh with powered skating/jet propelled movement of 145 kmh over average terrain.( Unit can switch from active powered wheels to passive engine conjunction movement automatically).
5 On site reload and resupply capabilities from support chopper or cargo drop, no complicated mechanic teams or equipment.
6 Standard vertical boost time of 0.5 to 1.5 flight ceiling for 6 seconds in air before semi powered decent( system uses leg structure and leg pneumatics for brazed quick decent) Through utilization of ground effect the german high-macs known as the JAGDPANTHER can remain air born for upwards of 30 seconds.
7 Torso flexibility means side strafing and option for movement, as well as a turreted upper body capable of movements 90* plus/minus the frontal median of 0.
8 Electricity provided by twin compact turbine rear mounted jet engines. Active thrust vectoring allows for near 360 powered movement.
9 Pressurized cockpit with atmospheric regulators ensure complete immunity to any chemical/biological attacks on pilot
>>14414613
#3 STATS
Wh: 65.5 Tons unloaded
L: 4m counting gun 9m
H: 6.2m
W: 5m
Crew: 1 Pilot/1 optional navigator
Speed 35mph walking, 145powered movement, 265 airborne
With it's advantage over typical ground, air , and water based systems the HIGH-MACS is the optimal low budget asymmetrical humanoid war frame for the 21'st century battlefield.
>>14411129
in reality tanks and mechs exist in different combat roles. Mechs are divided into two categories in current battlefield research: Automatons and Powersuits. both are human scale and exist as heavy infantry, not armored cavalry. unless we have something scale up over time like planes or tanks did from their original roles, don't expect giant robots realistically in combat
>be /k/ommando
>also be /m/an at the same time
I believe in mecha
I believe in realism
What do?
>>14414698
You can enjoy something being cool while still recognizing it's flaws.
t. battleshipfag
>>14414698
build the robot suit thing from Matrix 3
>>14412838
>>14414598
>>14414602
>>14414613
>>14414621
Wish the games were not dry cut.
>>14414862
Yeah and emulating them is a bitch
>>14414549
>implying that anyone is not aware of baiting by /k/ocroaches.
And I will laugh at them for not stepping up their game.
>>14414888
God bless the creator of the freeware High MACS Sim game. And also witnessed.
>>14414698
>Not mentally strong enough to believe both
Curb that weakness.
>>14411129
>>14414932
I'd watch an anime of that
>>14413616
>top jek
>>14414942
That's what Dahit Insaat videos are for.
How can mecha even compete?
>>14414915
i played the shit out of that
>>14413015
>tanks can't go over jagged terrain or shit with bigger dips, a mech would be able to
no
>>14413015
Mechs will sink into soft ground like field, marshes, forests and sand.
The problems are that a) the weight is distributed to a small foot area and b) unlike a track is actually "stomped" into the ground.
These problems amplify after an extended period of rain or shelling.
Bipeds can use mountainous terrain as cover and hiding utility in high altitude scenarios.
This was covered in (the terrible video game) METAL GEAR SOLID 5, and was the main cited advantage of Metal Gear Sahalanthropus (sp?)
>>14415223
something like the Loto only with a rotating low profile turret while in tank mode might be the more useful. basically a tank that can stand up to look over buildings in cities.
>>14413540
At equivalent C-bill cost, sure, but that's just because battletech is pants-on-head retarded with how it's ablative armor works.
>can stop a gauss rifle
>still takes damage from machine gun fire
>never gets holes in it (aside from critical hits), protects each segment of the vechile down to the last drop of armor
I'd like to see more variable-geometry tracked vehicles. Why use 12-14 dof worth of joints on robot legs when you can use 4-6 to let a tracked machine clamber over all kinds of shit.
>>14415281
Or just use reconnaissance vehicle.
Using two specialize vehicle are better than using one multipurpose vehicle.
>>14412921
If VFs ever became possible over the next couple thousands of years they'd definitely dominate.
The amount of broken "I can destroy a country" tier weaponry on the latter VFs is stupidly overpowered for a grunt
>>14413015
Alright I'll bite.
First off, Battlemechs operate on space magic, they have laser rifles and unobtainium armor. Comparing them to modern MBTs is quite unfair.
But in any case, tanks can go just fine over "jagged" terrain. That's what tracks are for, after all. Besides, most terrain where a tank couldn't go through holds no tactical value whatsoever.
Moreover, any gains on cross terrain performance would be loss in:
1. Possible total firepower, since tracked, low-profile vehicles can carry heavier weapons due to how physics work.
2. Maximum speed and acceleration: Wheels are simply much better than legs at these. Compare a human vs a human on a bike.
3. Profile: Combat vehicle designs always try to stay as low as possible to avoid sticking out, because that gets you killed. Anything over 4-5m is asking to eat ordnance from far away.
4. Survivability: Legged designs require heavier components than wheeled designs (wheels are lighter than legs), and are less efficient at carrying weight. This means that legged designs are forced to carry less armor than an equivalent wheeled one.
5. Ground pressure: This one's a classic. I'm not going to run the maths for yourself, just making sure I mention it.
6. Manufacturing cost: No need to explain this one either.
Even if legged designs were superior to tracked ones when it comes to "jagged terrain and dips", it wouldn't be worth it.
Regular vehicles are for defeating the enemy
Robots are for making the enemy respect.
>>14415515
RESPECT THE ROBOT
>>14411334
This.
>>14413015
Reminder that tanks were literally invented to cross the broken, hazardous terrain of war ravaged Europe during the first world war.
>>14415032
they can't
>>14411129
Mechs would be a godsend for construction, but in a warzone they become the proverbial broadside of a barn that anyone can hit.
>>14415969
>Mechs would be a godsend for construction
How so?
>>14415772
You mean to cross the muddy swampy fields of France and Belgium. Tanks are still pretty useless in jagged, rocky terrain.
>>14416018
>jagged, rocky terrain.
Bipedal robot wouldn't fare much better.
>>14411129
Sure.
All we need is material hundreds of times lighter than carbon fiber, hundreds of times stronger than steel, a movement system more reliable than motors, a furnace at the fraction of the size of current reactors with the efficiency thousands of times greater than current engines, an environment that requires such a ridiculous construct and an enemy hellbent on fighting us there that threatens our very way of existence.
>>14416018
>Tanks are still pretty useless in jagged, rocky terrain.
Who the fuck told you that?
>>14416018
>Tanks are still pretty useless in jagged, rocky terrain.
>>14413540
>Some /tg/ autist
Stopped reading there.
>>14415263
Tanks can use low walls, depressions in the ground, buildings, etc. Much easier to take cover when you're not the size of a sky scraper
>>14413630
>Centipede land battleship Zoid
fuck I never knew I wanted this
>tanks can't transform into planes, tanks, cars, jets, animals, or boomboxes
>tanks can't shoot heat beams, rust winds, or use sound attacks
>tanks need oil to run instead of radiation, black holes, bravery, or the ghosts of girlfriends past
>tanks can't talk and help you do homework, or find the perfect parents for you as an infant
>tanks can't fight space monsters
>tanks don't have mustaches
>tanks can't jump
What exactly can a tanks do that a robot can't now?
>>14417921
Exist.
>>14417947
semantics
>>14417921
Bring friends.
>>14417953
how butthurt do you have to be to make this comic
>>14411129
>I want to believe in mechs but I just can't
Then you don't want to believe. You're a cold-blooded fool with no guts and an empty soul. If you can't figure out the problem yourself, there's no hope for you.
>>14416018
>Tanks are still pretty useless in jagged, rocky terrain.
Tell that to the Italians.
>>14418905
Not that guy, but do you know how fucking often we get these threads? I'm saving the fuck out of that comic.
>>14411411
Patlabor uses its mechs in perhaps the most realistic fashion, as a method of both reconnaissance and infantry support, in essence most military labor units are basically IFVs and Armored Cars and while more vulnerable they have a better field of vision than traditional armored vehicles due to their increased height.
>Terrain
Small, slightly-upsized-powered-armor-like type robots would most probably be very useful in urban places, where tanks are not that good at with all the spots to shoot down at the relatively shit roof armor of tanks. It could be just an expansion pack for the normal powered-armor regular troops have and they use it to carry bigger/more guns into the fight as infantry support.
>>14415458
We'll never have planes that transform into robots. Fortunately enough though, the F-35 is leading us into a very good alternative. :)
>>14411129
Here you go
http://www.nationalmecha.org/about.html
/k/ockmonglers BTFO
>>14417953
>>14418905
Manned Submersibles have all sorts of crazy one-off prototypes, variations, lots of /m/ish things.
>>14417953
>>14420526
I fucking love SMBC.
Rekt
>>14412473
I mean, he didn't say it was shit. He just said it did realism the best until the magic stuff
>>14411129
i can only see one way mechs could be viable and its pretty complicated:
humans develop a "mindreader" steering system allowing a person direct control of mechanical appendages by reading/intercepting brainwaves. like superadvanced versions of current prosthetic limbs.
humans then create nanite-regenerative man made muscles, probably some kind of carbon nanotube bullshit.
then you need some kind of mental implant to speed up perception/data organzitaion/reaction times
THEN you need AI's that cun run fast humanoid motion to turn out to be cost prohibititive so you can just strap a human into your mech.
and they would still not be much more than a couple of times larger than a regular human
>notto disu shittu again
>>14420526
Fuck this is actually accurate
Why tanks had been treated like cannon fodder in most anime and video games anyway?
They are not agile like mecha and can't jump or dance around, but they are fast and mobile.
Their armor is not a single plate but layers of different materials and is very thick.
Their main gun can fire accurately at long distance and APFSDS rounds can penetrate thick steel easily.
They are also very cheap compared to mecha so they have number on their side as well.
Tank should be treat with more respect as an actual threat to the mecha, not as cannon fodder.
>>14419328
>We'll never have planes that transform into robots
I'd like to believe in a few thousand years a descendant of our will find /m/ and build one for shits and giggles
>>14419328
>We'll never have planes that transform into robots.
Joke's on you, we already have planes that are robots the WHOLE TIME.
>>14421849
>>14421925
So trying to do everything but not good at anything while being expensive?
>>14421925
The trouble is, there is only one kind of rough terrain that can't be effectively enough dealt with by conventional vehicles, helicopters, or drones. And that's urban. And to really dominate at urban terrain, you need to be able to go inside buildings. Anything that doesn't fit in through a regular door, with a 10' ceiling is just going to wind up doing the same thing as conventional vehicles: supporting infantry by locking down streets with armored firepower, while praying that nobody gets past their supporting infantry and ambushes from a flank.
>>14418905
>erase 2 words
>write 3 characters
I'm absolutely fucking devastated, thanks for asking.
>>14420559recently it's been very hit and miss but the old shit is still great
A bipedal mech will be controlled by ai, they will do our wars and they may able to do all the superhuman things you dream of, because they wont have humans driving it.
This will be the only reason to build bipedal war machines.
More than likely our war ai might just be wheeled or flying quad drones with guns.
>>14417953
The funniest part is car-boats actually exist nowadays.
>>14421609
The last time tanks weren't treated as cannon fodder we got the Tiger Ace campaign in Company of Heroes Tales of Valor.
>>14424580
>Terminator
>>14412560
So does anyone have an explanation for Halo Wars's Cyclops?
>>14426117
>Halo Wars's Cyclops
Forerunners.png
>>14424580
But Piloting the robot is half the fun
>>14421609
Tank justice warriors are not allowed here.
Back to tanklr with your "cool at every size" and your shitty photoshop to make realistic mechs there.
>>14416012
Construction sites typically have solid foundations so their high ground pressure is not an issue. They can easily move heavy loads between multiple floors (assuming the average builder bot is 2 stories high). Speed and armor is not an issue. They can direct more lifting power to any particular spot other than a team of men (who might get hurt by their loads). A bot can serve as bracing for overhead objects while concrete cures. A bot can carry heavy crew served equipment that takes multiple people to operate and operate it more safely than a human operator.
Basically they are the ultimate expression of Man as builder.
>>14420526
Fantasy doesn't pretend to be realistic.
>>14421609
In Heavy Gear, tanks are pretty much the kings of anywhere they can fit. The Gears in question are landmates that have to abuse their smaller size and agility to survive on any battlefield with tanks on it.Attack helos eat them both for breakfast.
>>14411129
i honestly don't give a shit
>>14411339
/thread
>>14420725
every mecha always end up like that
>>14426407
And landships just fuck everything up.
The Terra Novan food chain is a wondrous thing.
>>14421609
Tanks demand respect!
>>14427618
TJW have ruined tanks for me.
>>14427729
TJW?
>>14419014
>>14430470
>toblerone obstacles
You'd have a better point if those things ever did a damn thing to slow the allies.
it turns out you can just break them a little and drive through.
>>14417953
Those exist, actually. I took a tour on one when I was a kid. It was amazing.
>>14428064
Tank Justice warriors, as described here >>14426251
>>14426985
Landships even function like battlestars in that most of them are basically gear/tank carriers with naval-grade weapons for support fire. It's fucking bootiful.
>All these shitposters comparing mechs with tanks.
>Showing off tanks as some sort of ultimate end-all weapon.
>The reality of the situation is that tanks are an outdated concept which is already being abolished in the military.
Tanks have no future just like the cavalry they so often associate with.
Mechs do have potential future, even if they probably won't look the same as in anime, which is simply stuff made for entertainment.
>>14433925
>Germany, France to Develop New Battle Tank to Catch Up With Russia’s Armata
Yeah, tank sure have no future.
>>14433925
>The reality of the situation is that tanks are an outdated concept which is already being abolished in the military.
How does it feel knowing that by the start of next year, your opinion will have officially been wrong for 100 years. As a child I remember Sec Def. Donald "exit strategy" Rumsfeld talking about making the army a lighter fighting force.
You are as wrong as Donald Rumsfeld.
The ultimate end-all weapon is, of course, the high-end multirole fighter, which is itself shat upon by the high end dedicated air superiority fighter.
>>14434177
>With Russia’s Armata
You are more delusional than the people who think Evangelion is the end-all of mecha anime.
Both Germany and France are selling their tanks left and right because they are continually cutting budgets and are getting rid of anything "unusable" in modern theaters.
Armata itself was just a sorry attempt to make something tank-ish from what is nothing more than a multi-role chassis for APCs, IFVs, SPGs and such.
the company that made the modification has already went bankrupt.
>>14434398
This isn't the place to argue about this.
Shall we go to /k/?
