Tomino vs Kawamori
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You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
Let's have a Kawamori and Tomino thread. What do you think of Delta and G-Reco compared to their previous Gundam and Macross? Did they lost their touch or do you still enjoy their latest shows?
Also, who is better, current Tomino or current Kawamori?
Tomino hardly pumps out new shit.
So Kawamori?
Huge Macross faggot and loving Delta.
Been getting a bit sick of Gundam, but that's more because I religiously watched all of it, then I sort of ran out of stamina with AGE. I still haven't seen G-Reco or IBO. So I honestly don't know. Doesn't G-Reco get a lot of shit here? Is it bad?
>>14383511
>Is it bad?
Nah, it's just that the retards who couldn't understand it shit on it all the time.
Kawamori is a cool guy, eh comes out to events, plays vidya and Legos and doesn't afraid of anything
I like them both. They do different things but they produce fun, thoughtful and enjoyable content.
I hate idols, so Tomino
>>14383536
Seconded.
>>14383438
Both are tired old fucks who need to stop inspiring faggots to try to be good/creative/nice/UNDERSTANDING/shit.
>>14383564
Nice try Okada
>>14383527
>autists still trying to claim Greco made sense
>>14383570
Literally who?
>>14383438
G-Reco >>>>>>>> anything Macross.
>>14383456
The last thing Kawamori was involved with was Nobunaga the Fool, wasn't he?
>>14383589
>shitposters still can't understand a kids' show
>>14383614
>this delusion
>>14383631
Sup Valverager
>>14383541
>I hate idols, so Tomino
But Tomino loves Love Live. Like a lot.
>>14383624
>Kids show that airs at like 1 AM
Come on son
>>14383637
Tomino liked Nozomi and Honkers the best, he has superb taste.
>>14383438
Loved G-Reco, loving Delta.
Fuck you for trying to create fanbase wars.
>>14383644
But Umi & Rin are the best girls.
At least he isn't a Nicofag.
>>14383653
>But Umi & Rin are the best girls.
Pfffhahahahahaha
>>14383657
Let me guess, you're a Makifag? just like any other idiot who didn't watch the anime but like the girl just for her design.
>>14383669
Since i haven't watched it, this makes me curious. Post a picture senpai
>>14383614
>G-Reco >>>>>>>> anything Macross.
lolno. Delta has been so much better than G-Reco. And this is coming from someone who enjoys Gundam more than Macross.
>>14383685
>>14383669
>you're a Makifag?
Nicofag loud and proud
>>14383527
>Strawmanning this hard
How to spot someone up their own ass in denial.
>>14383697
I see. That's a nice design. Don't judge a book by its cover, then?
>>14383511
It's got pacing issues towards the end, but I liked it.
>>14383691
>Delta has been so much better than G-Reco
Not even close
>>14383438
G-Reco was a breath of fresh air the franchise needed
Delta is continuing Macross stagnation
>>14383511
Give this thread a read, it did a good job analyzing what's wrong with G-Reco and why people disliked it.
>>14354031
>>14383653
>>14383657
>>14383669
>>14383697
Honkers, Nozomi, Eli, and Umi are best girls.
>>14383438
I could only feel apathy for both Frontier and Delta.
So Tomino wins by default.
as a director, Current Tomino.
I enjoyed G reco and King Gainer a lot, even if wings of rean was pretty bad
Kawamori as a director hasn't made anything good since SDF. Zero had cool fights but a retarded plot and Macross frontier was a bore from start to finish.
Though I'll give him this, delta's alright so far.
Kawamori as a designer is consistently top notch however, so I can't say I hate him.
>>14383763
It is better, dude. The only thing G-Reco did better than Delta is the visuals, character designs and animation. Everything else, Delta >>>>> Reco. Just compare how one dimensional and boring Aida was to Freyja, who has lots of characterization, development and is much more likable, and we still have another 12 episodes left.
>>14383752
Maki is an old tsundere type (the one that doesn't hit), music composer of the group, rich, destined to be doctor and perfect at everything else.
They tried to create the perfect waifu.
There's no shitty girl in Love Live except Nico.
>>14383798
>Freyja, who has lots of characterization, development and is much more likable
>>14383798
>Freyja
>lots of characterization
I haven't watched Reco but if Aida was boring by comparison what was he like?
Because Freyja was fucking shit.
>>14383798
>Everything else, Delta >>>>> Reco
The characters in Delta are dull and one-dimensional
Bellri > Hayate
Aida > Mirage
Raraiya > Freyja
>>14383806
>There's no shitty girl in Love Live except Nico.
Bird is garbage
And don't talk shit about best Love Live faggot
>>14383806
Nico is love.
>>14383798
G-Reco has story and characters on it over Delta as well.
>>14383812
Sorry to burst your bubble but most people adore Freyja, you're the minority here bud.
>>14383818
Fuck off, all Love Lives are love and equal. Its just some are more equal then others.
>>14383824
>Sorry to burst your bubble but most people adore Freyja
Just how most people adore Kira, doesn't make her a good character
>>14383816
>Bellri > Hayate
>Aida > Mirage
>Raraiya > Freyja
>>14383833
She's great though. I didn't see G-reco though so i can't compare them.
>>14383836
Great argument
>>14383833
And just because you dislike her doesn't mean she's bad.
>>14383839
She's not. In fact most of the characters in Delta is shit except for Ernest Johnson
>>14383842
Okay, have one:
The characters in G-Reco are dull and one-dimensional
Hayate > Bellri
Mirage > Aida
Freyja > Raraiya
>>14383836
What's wrong with Bellri or Rariya? Only issue with Aida is that she keeps trying to do shit and never gets anything done physically.
>>14383847
>Hayate > Bellri
Stoppred reading there
>>14383845
You're wrong.
This thread went shitposting fast
>>14383843
What a sassy post.
>>14383855
Boring, dull and one-dimensional mostly. Retarded Raraiya was fun, though.
>>14383856
Great argument
>>14383855
>What's wrong with Bellri or Rariya?
Nothing he's just a butthurt Deltafag that's upset about nobody giving a shit about his show
>>14383528
>Kawamori is a cool guy, eh comes out to events, plays vidya and Legos and doesn't afraid of anything
Weak.
>>14383847
>The characters in G-Reco are dull and one-dimensional
>Hayate > Bellri
>Mirage > Aida
>Freyja > Raraiya
>>14383859
You're new I assume.
>>14383867
>this delusion
Delta is more popular than G-Reco, have you been living under a rock?
>>14383873
>Delta is more popular than G-Reco
I love meme
>>14383876
And I love your delusion.
>>14383856
Hayate killed Bellri faggot.
>>14383881
And it was glorious.
>>14383872
If anything, it took too long.
>>14383779
I've not seen any of this shit, but Umi seems pretty top-tier.
>>14383669
/g/ likes Maki for other reasons.
>>14383881
>>14383873
>>14383879
This is the part where you post the Newtype poll
>>14383890
This is the part where
>Newtype
>>14383890
Is this the best you can come up with?
>>14383886
>>14383884
>Deltafags are blind
![[HorribleSubs] Gundam Reconguista in G - 01 [1080p].mkv_snapshot_23.02_[2014.10.03_03.06.37].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/rhQDXYk.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Gundam Reconguista in G - 01 [1080p].mkv_snapshot_23.02_[2014.10.03_03.06.37].jpg")
>>14383886
>>14383884
I came here to laugh at (You)
>>14383937
No, I'm the one laughing here, discount Meijin,
>>14383960
>discount Meijin
>implying
GBF was even worse then Delta.
Gundam is stagnant as fuck. Except Tomino is not behind the stagnation
>>14383438
I think both shows are pretty great.
As for Tomino's past Works in comparisson to Kawamori's I think Tomino has done better in terms of being fresh.
(I know that sounds weird but keep in mind this guy has done more than gundam)
While I don't necessarily dislike Kawamori he usually tends to just do love stories with mechs so it sometimes limits him to keeping a story centered around the MC and his lover without giving us much world building. However delta actually had been really good at not doing this so far.
Also another exception being Eureka seven although I'm not exactly sure how much he was involved in that.
Tomino on the other hand entertains me a bit more because his tales usually have the premise of a boy discovering the world around him.
This typically leads to tons of worldbuilding and subplots which I feel expand the scale of his world and makes them feel really immersive(it also helps that he's been at it longer than Kawamori ).
And because Tomino really likes creating extremely unique settings and fully exploring them I feel like this makes his works feel a bit more lively when placed against Kawamori.
>>14383973
>being this wrong
>>14383653
>Umi & Rin
Kill yourself.
>>14383438
G-Reco was pretentious poorly paced shit that I could barely get through 3 episodes of. Delta has been a lot of fun so far.
>>14384311
>g reco
>pretentious
It was anything but that,the fan base is pretentious but the show itself was 0079 tier in simplicity
Still too soon to say since Delta has 14 episodes to go but so far Delta is way better. G-Reco had the most flat and dull characters I've seen in a long time and the plot was pretty standard for Gundam. While Delta has a few one-dimensional characters so far like Makina and Reina they also have great characters like pic related. Most importantly it's F U N. https://a.pomf.cat/fridks.webm
>>14384257
GBF is garbage and so are you.
>>14384311
>>14384428
Gr8 b8 m8s
>>14384428
That looks terrible and the song is awful. Why do Macross fags push so much crap at people expecting them to eat it just because they're gullible assholes?
>>14384428
>A poorly designed character singling a bad song in poorly rendered 3DCG
This is what Macrossfags consider FUN
>>14384428
>CG shit
>Terrible pop music
What was your point again?
>>14384442
>>14384451
>>14384475
Reco fags assblasted as usual. Feels like 2014 all over again.
>>14384492
>Deltafag=A/Zfag, Angefag, TRYfag
It all makes sense now.
>>14384492
>says Valvrager 2.0
>>14384492
I'm just lurking the thread, I haven't watched Reco, just the 4 first episodes of Delta and dropped because the characters sucked so fucking much.
You posted a generic pop song with a shoddy animated cg mech on it and called it fun.
Watch Macross 7. At least the mech animation is a bit better.
>>14384513
>At least the mech animation is a bit better.
I understand liking 2D over 3D but saying 7 had better animation is a blatant lie.
>>14383438
You are now Harmony Gold
How do you fix Robotech Delta for western audiences?
>>14384541
The Walkure gets killed off in the first episode. Fregyja is just some random sick girl. Messer lives and the show is about him and White Knight. The End
Love greco, setting, characters, designs and how well the themes play through the series
Don't really care for Delta but I see why it would appeal to some people and it seems to do it well. Will probably listen to some of the songs later
>>14384614
One of the more sensible anons. Too bad we can't have more respectful posts like this.
>Top Tier
SDF, MSG
>Good Tier
Z, Victory, Turn A, 2/2 of 7, Frontier
>Okay Tier
CCA, G-Reco, DYRL, Dynamite 7, Delta
>Bad Tier
F91, Plus, Zero
>Shit Tier
ZZ, 1/2 of 7
>>14383438
I enjoy both, but like a lot of other people are saying Delta is really by the numbers while G-Reco tried something different.
Also Bellri was a pretty great MC, a pacifist douche whose hobby is dancing is never going to surpass that.
I like Tomino because he's the only mecha guy who really tries to world build post apocolyptic settings that are uniquely his.
Sure, Xabungle, Turn A, King Gainer, and G-Reco have a lot in common and share a lot of elements, but there similarities aren't stuff he's gimping from other people, which I can respect
>>14384669
>69
She's still alive damnit. They can make beam trees and refine the moonlight butterfly. they should be able to make explosion proof escape pods
>>14384661
Why are you lumping movies and specials with TV shows, you dong?
>>14384684
I'm sure she is somewherebeing used by old men
>>14384669
>I enjoy both, but like a lot of other people are saying Delta is really by the numbers while G-Reco tried something different.
G-Reco did nothing different. It was a typical Tomino Gundam.
>>14384703
Thank su cordo
>>14383438
YAY SHITPOSTING!
G-Reco had Barara and Mick, so I pick G-Reco.
>>14383438
I watch Gundam and Macross like Tomino is the father and Kawamori is the son. Don't think there a holy ghost in this picture any where.
>>14384861
Yes
>>14384861
I want mick to be like a mother to me
>>14384661
>Good Tier
>Frontier
>actually putting any part of 7 near Turn A
>>14384987
All the problems in that ranking, and you instead complain about some of the few things he got right?
>>14384997
Top Tier?
>>14383438
Tomino lost his touch after Victory Gundam, Kawamori made Aquarion and is keeping Go Nagai's throne of awesome warm. I like 'em both though.
>>14385058
>Kawamori made Aquarion
So he's worse.
>>14385082
Nope, second best in the industry after Nagai, Aquarion is a masterwork franchise for the century.
>>14383438
Does tomino smell like a gross oldman
Kawamori is a literal hack. Outside of some decent shit with Macross, he is incapable of producing anything new or original independent of it.
>>14385141
Same with Tomino.
Tomino! This is proof!
>>14385141
I liked aquarion and za fool was fun in places.
I will admit i am a tomino fanboy. Wasnt to crazy about zeta or the wings of ream
>>14385185
Only the first Aquarion was decent. Its sequels are literally awful and Nobunaga the Fool was beyond mediocre.
>>14385161
>King Gainer
>Xambungle
>>14385970
>nothing in the past 10 years
He's a hack.
>>14386107
Top b8
>>14385093
>Aquarion EVOL is a masterpiece of this century
Ft4u.
Sousei breaches new frontiers in regards to how remarkably inconsistent it is. Unfortunately, when it is consistent, it's more consistent at being shit than anything else.
>>14385093
>Aquarion is a masterwork franchise for the century
KEK!
Aquarion is one of the worst ship Kawamori has done.
Arjuna, Nobugana and Aquarion are all equally crap!
>>14387018
And Garzey's Wing, ZZ Gundam, Brain Powerd, G-Reco, and King Gainer are all shit too!
>>14387018
>Arjuna, Nobugana and Aquarion are all equally crap!
Arjuna was meh while Aquarion and The Fool were pretty well constructed
>all this Aquarion hate
You can stop being jealous now, /m/.
>>14387098
This is Crossbone tier memeing.
>>14387098
>Logos
>Kawamori
Ayy
>>14383819
>G-Reco has story and characters
>G-reco
>characters
>the same interchangeable autists split into six characters
Nice bait.
>>14383614
Nobunaga the fool was so bad, a tripfag fucking quit mecha entierly, i forget his name. but holy fuck he flipped his holy fucking shit over that anime. I remember him being a big fucking Macross fan too. Wasn't he working on that Kamen rider game too? guy was all up the hiz house on /m/, well that was until nobunaga the fool.
>>14387764
It wasn't that bad, mediocre and generic, even bad maybe, but not terrible, there are worst shows out there. Gargantia, Dai Shogun, AZ, G-Reco, Comet Lucifer or Captain Earth were worse
>>14387786
>Gargantia
How in the living fuck is Gargantia worse?
not enough combat pow pow action?
it didn't have enough bang bang boom?
not enough metal on metal mayhem?
Go fuck your self faggot, you have no taste.
>>14387764
>tokushitter
>tripfag
Nothing of value was lost. Heck, I'd venture to say /m/ gained something.
>>14387798
No, i know who he is talking about. and he wasn't working on Kamen Rider. the guy he was talking about hated Tokushit. He was working on Mechamon.And at this point, i'm not going to say who, he's worse than all tripfaggots combined. if i could kill him i fucking would.
>>14387797
Not him, but Gargantia was trash. Worse, maybe not, but neither were good.
Every single person in this thread can go and choke on exhaust fumes.
Heaven forbid you let bygones be bygones, apparently bickering about cartoon preferences is the only thing that gives you a sense of worth.
>>14387761
>muh autism
Nice bait
>>14387807
HHHHUUUURRRRRR DDDUUUUURRRRR
God forbid something different than our normal fucking mecha shit.
God forbid ALL OF IT.
This show was 521% garbage because it didn't follow our standard mecha tropes.
It didn't have a fight every episode to help us get over our boredom. the Characters where WAY too developed for our liking.
I was extremely confused about the whole plot again because the character's were THAT complicated. and because of the complicated characters and lack of SUPER ROBOT ACTION. I lost patience on the ENTIRE show.
We need more of the same please! more of a doofus character with no fucking military skills, who was bored with his fucking life of peace. falls into a PLOT BOT, and then is a piloting god by episode 3. Then after he is all lel epic stronk as fuck, he gets his ass kicked by Char#1341, to only lose his Giant Robutt, and then gain a totally new one, that's more or less the same robot, BUT WITH MORE DOODADS!
Fuck this show for trying to do the OPPOSITE, where the main character is an expert soldier in a well established military, and has done extremely for his age, ends up on a planet where war isn't necessary with his robot companion that was 100% bad character mind you. He then learns that there is more to life than fighting some hentai kaiju.
Yeah, you're 500% correct anon, that show was fucking garbage. and anyone who fucking enjoyed it more than 5% deserves to be hunted down, have concrete be poured into their fucking mouths. and then tossed into the ocean, so they can make up their mistake for watching Gargantia and liking it unironically!
>>14387832
Are you okay, anon?
>>14387847
Ignore that, it's just a Gargantia fanThey dont' exist, it's just him. being delusional and liking garbage.
>>14383528
Tomino is also a nice old man and generously let you take a picture with him if you by chance encounter him near Sunrise studio.
I knew because i did that just recently.
>>14387876
>I knew because i did that just recently.
POST IT!
What was he doing at the studio? Working on G-Reco movies?
>>14387832
Aha! I like series that don't have fights every single episode.
I don't like Gargantia, though.
Checkmate!
>>14387945
>G-Reco movie
This is the best meme we have right now.
>>14387797
Different anon here. Gargantia went nowhere, it just felt mediocre. I'd honestly say Nobunaga the Fool for all its silly and inane shit, and how even the character deaths and sub drama was played out with the main characters made it more interesting then Gargantia.
>>14387857
G-Reco fans are so delusional. You fags only like the show for the waifus and the plastic robot models. There's no substance to it like most of Gundam.
>>14388344
Or maybe you're just retarded?
>>14388344
Valvrager pls
>>14384930
anno? or nagano?
>>14388542
Oh man I miss that guy
I'm not really a Gundam fan. Macross though....fucking love it.
>>14383511
G-reco gets a lot of shit here but I enjoyed it. You do have to be a bit focused when watching it, miss a line of dialogue and you'll be wondering why they're heading somewhere, but it's pretty good otherwise.
>>14384513
Mech animation better in 7...the FUCK u smoking!?!
>>14388729
You must be 18 years or older to post here.
>>14388630
Nagano is the red headed step child everyone ignores.
>>14388703
Good /m/an
>>14388542
>muh valvrager
Much like how Tomino can't write good dialogue, G-reco babies can't write good responses.
>>14388815
Classic Valvrager post.
>>14388822
For example.
>>14388902
Nice (You)
>>14387945
>>14384513
>At least the mech animation is a bit better.
Even just putting aside how wrong that is on the over-abundance of stock footage alone, the budget for 7 is so notoriously low, that on the majority of shots in Basara's cockpit, they purposely had the fight scenes focus on Basara's upper body so you can't see him actually playing the guitar or how he even controls it outside of specific moments, like that one time he shot misses.
>>14389884
Thats awesome anon
>>14389917
>Just finish enough animation for one episode
>Reuse it two dozen times
Kawamori, the mad man.
I think when they both make good stuff, Tomino makes better ones, but when they make bad stuff, Tomino makes WAY worse.
Like holy shit. I did not believe people when they told me Garzey's Wing was bad, then I actually saw it. That shit was legitimately one of the worst thing I've ever seen. I will take watching the first half of M7 twice in a row over watching Garzey's Wing ever again.
>>14390651
>I did not believe people when they told me Garzey's Wing was bad, then I actually saw it. That shit was legitimately one of the worst thing I've ever seen. I will take watching the first half of M7 twice in a row over watching Garzey's Wing ever again.
Still better than Zero
>>14390666
No, it's seriously not. Zero is boring and has a hypocritical last couple eps, but I didn't want to use a q-tip and sharpen it into an edge to stab my jugular with.
Also, Dunbine is really bad.
Actually I should rephrase that. Dunbine when they get back to earth is really bad. I'll admit I'm tolerant of things dragging on longer than they should. I have more patience than most people on /m/. But Dunbine seriously needed like 8 episodes less than what it had. It just kept going, against all story logic and understanding of pacing. Like Tomino was dared to do it, and then the madman actually did it.
>>14390670
Zero is absolute shit, anon.
>>14390705
I acknowledge that. Garzey was still worse.
>>14390708
>Garzey was still worse.
Nope
Garzey > shit > Zero
>>14390698
>not liking Sir Todd Guinness saviour of Boston, or Galaria mugging japanese picnicers for japanese donuts
>>14390726
>better than shit
anon, you might want to get off the internet for a while. Your brain has become so poisoned by 4chan opinions that you're talking crazy.
>>14384428
Holy fuck, this song is awful.
>>14389884
>when the space autism hit u
>>14387098
>>14385058
Aquarion would have been great if the story ended with ZessicaXAmata
>>14391076
This
>>14389884
I envy you, you lucky bastard.
>dat hat
Is it new? I never seen him wearing it before.
>>14383438
G-Reco was difficult the first time, the weekly experience. On rewatch it's more enjoyable, you can tell the show is incredibly ambitious in what it aims to be yet never truly manages to pull it off properly due to insufficient runtime. Tomino wanted to challenge the viewer, get a message across to to the new generation and push for daring hand drawn animation.
Delta on the other hand is the complete opposite : it's a fat lot of nothing stretched to two cours that simply relies on otaku pandering to succeed. You can tell they brainstormed the basic ideas with shit and giggles in mind and no desire to bring any substance whatsoever.
>>14383541
>Tomino
>hating idols
The fact that Kawamori made 7 shows that if he wants to and somehow gets the money, he will make a show so polarizing that it's impossible to have a middling opinion, and he won't give a FUCK that that's the case.
Seriously, who makes a show like this for any reason other than "I want to"
>49 episodes when it could (and should) have been 30, unlike most shows that aren't long enough
>a protagonist you will either love or see as one of the most unlikeable assholes in anime history
>derailing everything that made the franchise about culture and turning it into literal magic
>making the show look like it's about passing things on to the next generation (Mylene), but fuck that, this is Basara's show
>an ending no one will believe if they haven't seen it and you described it to them
"and then I told Kawamori to have Basara's singing make the space vampire elf orgasm, and he actually did it, the absolute madman"
>>14383691
>Delta has been so much better than G-Reco
On no aspect whatsoever.
>>14391330
>>an ending no one will believe if they haven't seen it and you described it to them
I almost want to be spoiled.
>>14391351
I don't. So use the spoiler tag.
>>14391351
It's not like you'll believe meThe galaxy is about to be swallowed into a supermassive black hole being created by the villain's power going out of control.
Basara (with help from Sivil) wakes up and sings SO HARD that he brings everyone back from the brink of death, and causes the villain to have an both an orgasm and an epiphany that he is capable of singing himself, and when he sings it creates an overflow of Spiritia and stops the formation of the black hole.
Then the space vampires all fuck off into the dark void because now that they can produce their own spiritua through song, they no longer need to feed off of others anymore.
Granted, that's not the actual finale. The real finale is in the epilouge OVAs Macross Dynamite 7.
>>14391365
So, Moleman...in space?
>>14391331
You G-Recofags are so pitiful and so deep in denial is not even funny. Anon, G-Reco is a bad show. It's okay to enjoy bad things.
>>14391753
>G-Reco
>bad show
Pick one Fukuda
>>14383438
G-reco is the most "Gundam" anime that's come out in a very, very long time. Moreso even than those shitty AUs that were just UC but with worse animation and characters.
Meanwhile I'm still salty over how ugly Delta is. Kawamori can suck my 3DCG dick.
>>14392525
>still mad about CG
It's been 14 years now, get over it fag.
>>14392318
Not even Seedfags jump over as many mental hoops as grecofags do when they to try to explain how greco is somehow not a trainwreck.
But then again there are no grecofags, just a bunch of false-flagging trolls.
>>14392557
Maybe I would if it didn't look like horseshit.
>>14392579
But it looks decent.
>>14392557
Hey, I like cg, but Delta's is some awful mid-aughts Gonzo-tier shit.
And NO, that one guy, Yukikaze does not have good cgi.
>>14383818
>>14383832
>>14383819
>>14392569
Sure thing Okada
>>14392645
Yeah, I agree. Delta's CG looks greatfor a PS2 game.
>>14392713
Classic shitpost. It's funny because the textures have better detail than PS3 models. There's already been a comparison shot of the VF-171 from Macross 30, a PS3 game, and a shot of the VF-171 from Delta and you can clearly see the textures are better.
>>14383438
Between the two, I admit I lean towards Kawamori.
Tomino made Gundam, which very quickly grew beyond his ability to control. Gundam is in a state of living death now, cranking out new series for bandai model kits, and Tominio rarely has any input now. In addition, Gundam frequently gets called out for recycling entire characters and plots for the sake of making the setting/conflict the OYW++, which left a bad taste in my mouth. I used to really like Gundam, but the more Gundam I watched the more my opinion of Gundam of a franchise went down the drain. It has some good entries, but by and large it is repetitive, derivative crap.
Kawamori, on the other hand, has raised Macross as his baby for basically everything except Macross II, which became non-canon. He has managed to avoid re-using main characters and fighting the same enemy over and over again (we never went back and fought another group of Zentradi as the primary enemy again, meanwhile Gundam can't stop fighting Zeon/Zeon spinoffs/Zeon analogues) and I feel like the culture and setting of Macross as a whole grows in a weird but consistent and believable way between shows, instead of staying locked into stasis like UC basically is.
Also, and feel free to hang me for this, but the fight choreography in Macross is so much better than Gundam its embarrassing. Mech design is different enough that it becomes a matter of taste, but fights in Gundam are almost always just Mobile suits charging/flying directly at each other to the point that Char being able to step to the side and circle-strafe makes him the most dangerous motherfucker alive for months of the OYW.
You get some better fights, but only in the OVAs that have to blow a whole bunch of their budget on these scenes. Macross, meanwhile, has better fight choreography than that in just random episodes of their shows, becoming really noticeable in Frontier and after.
On that front, at least, Kawamori is clearly the superior director.
>>14392557
That long since Zero?
>>14392739
Yep. That was 2002.
FEEL OLD
>>14392733
>but the fight choreography in Macross is so much better than Gundam
Please, you can barely understand where the Valks are supposed to be in Delta.
>>14392744
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. What are you having trouble following? Can you point to an example?
>>14392759
The fight against notBellri. You can't understand where everybody is going or supposed to be. Seriously.
>>14392744
>"I'm too stupid to follow the action on screen!"
If you can follow Tomino's shit dialogue then you can follow planes flying around screen.
>>14392765
What. Compared to Frontier the fights are a lot slower and easier to follow.
>>14392733
> fight choreography
God, the fights in IBO made me so mad.
Like this scene, which physically cannot work without at least three significant actions happening offscreen in order to flip around the battlefield and move the combatants so that this 'trick' makes sense.
The Mace is being held below the cut, which should cause the head of the mace, which is pinned against the body of the enemy machine, to just fall off and basically drop where it is. Instead, the shaft (which Mika is holding onto with both hands) gets flung with extreme force a far distance, and somehow the head of the mace also ends up far behind the Gundam as well.
So either the head of the mace teleported behind Mika offscreen, or Mika (without a weapon) managed to push the battle a solid 20 meters forward just so that he could leap backwards dramatically and conveniently land next to the head of the mace for a surprise attack. No matter the actual explanation for it, the onscreen events of the fight do no add up with applying headcanon fanfiction to describe how the fuck we went from A to B so that the fight could end 'as planned'.
Thats some really bad scene composition editing that basically depends on the viewer being too caught up in the moment to realize it doesn't fucking work. Like a 6 shot revolver firing 8 shots, one of which was a shotgun shell.
>>14392790
I like how the ejection seat fails to get him clear of the explosion because it was clearly designed for being used in-atmosphere, where the presumed speed of the plane and air resistance would impose a safe distance.
Seems like the sort of technical oversight that I would expect from a people who are only on their second war involving VFs, and the first war to take place beyond their planet.
>>14392808
>it was clearly designed for being used in-atmosphere
Was it?
The seat seems to slow, so that means they accounted for the lack of air resistance in the design, otherwise he would just keep going and going in space.
Also having an ejection system that send you dashing is not a good idea, because later people will have to make one hell of an effort to find you in the middle of nowhere. That is, if didn't happen to find something in your way and broke your neck with the impact.
>>14383564
All hail our new leader!! After he retires from all that diarrhea
>>14390651
>but when they make bad stuff, Tomino makes WAY worse.
I don't man. Arujuna was pretty fucking bad. Garzey's Wing you can laugh at because Tomino admitted that he really didn't want to do it but Kawamori put everything in to this garbage and on top of being preachy as hell it was an absolute trainwreck in every regard. Nice visuals though
>>14392797
>one of which was a shotgun shell
There are revolvers that fire shotgun shells though.
>>14392731
And if you compare it to an actually good-looking game, like Ace Combat?
>>14392733
>Also, and feel free to hang me for this, but the fight choreography in Macross is so much better than Gundam its embarrassing.
Hey look an old FMV from the PSONE!
>>14392733
>. He has managed to avoid re-using main characters and fighting the same enemy over and over again
He's also avoid making every new installment be as compelling as the first
> and I feel like the culture and setting of Macross as a whole grows in a weird but consistent and believable way between shows, instead of staying locked into stasis like UC basically is.
How did we go from ailens with culture shock to fighting an AI idol controlling a city to space elf vampires who feed off music to space bugs to whatever the fuck Zero was.
>Also, and feel free to hang me for this, but the fight choreography in Macross is so much better than Gundam its embarrassing.
Let me prepar the noose because that is complete and utter HORSESHIT. Macross has literally deteriorated in quality from character designs to animation since the move to CG and Delta is among the worse looking installments in the franchise while G-Reco is some of the best looking visuals we've gotten from a TV Gundam anime since Turn A. Now make no mistake I think 3DCG has improved a lot since the 00s so I'm not knocking Macross for switiching to 3DCG I'm knocking it for not improving when everyone else has. Watching Delta after Fafner Exodus you see a vast difference in quality.
>>14392921
>Macross has literally deteriorated in quality from character designs to animation
It actually hasn't. Delta has some really smooth character animation.
>>14392921
>Bellri just punches shit with half the action taken up by moving cockpit shots, with the only neat visual trick being the curtain of water at the start
Even Gundam has better than that.
>>14392946
>Delta has some really smooth character animation.
And some really shitty designs. Like holy shit, those faces are haunting.
>>14392951
Those are 2D punches, and there is more detail in those cuts than in all Delta CG models put together.
> the only neat visual trick being the curtain of water at the start
And Delta has never had something as neat as that.
>>14392946
>It actually hasn't.
It has. Delta has some of the worst character designs in the franchise.
> Delta has some really smooth character animation.
Cool horseshit bro
>>14392955
You just have terrible taste.
>>14392964
Okay fag.
>>14392955
>>14392965
ugly moeblobs literally
>>14392965
Too bad that is not how Mirage really looks in the show or magazines.
>>14392733
>Also, and feel free to hang me for this, but the fight choreography in Macross is so much better than Gundam its embarrassing.
Why do Macrossfags do this to yourselves? You fucking know some anon is going to bring up 7 or how the CG looks like an early PS2 game so why fight a battle you know you can't win?
>>14392968
To contrast between character animation and background is so fucking bad. Who was in charge of blending the things?
>>14392974
You said the character design is bad but you keep posting images of art from magazines and not the actual show. Why don't you actually show us a screencap of how she actually looks then?
>>14392968
What's wrong with her faaaaaaaccccceeeeee?!
>>14392963
So because it;s 2D I'm supposed to think it's great?
>>14392977
Is pedophilia a running theme in Victory, or just one character's gimmick?
>>14392955
>>14392964
>>14392973
>>14392974
>>14392983
>>14393000
None of you can even describe why it looks bad without using buzzwords like "moeblob".
>>14392996
> and not the actual show
Because the actual show looks worse than that.
>>14392996
>and not the actual show.
Happy?
>>14393006
I can say the eyes are WAAAAAY to big and the dot-for-nose doesn't make her face look any better.
>>14393008
It really doesn't. You're just saying whatever you can to defend your shit taste in liking G-Reco. I'm sure that movie will happen someday, anon. Maybe it'll be on Kickstarter!
>>14392996
Sure.
>>14392921
> How did we go from ailens with culture shock to fighting an AI idol controlling a city to space elf vampires who feed off music to space bugs to whatever the fuck Zero was.
Zero was a prequel, but look at this progression:
> SDF: Aliens have no non-military culture of any kind, culture shock is used as a weapon against them with the definitive moment being using music to turn the tide of the final battle as it throws the enemy into chaos. Nothing magical about any of this, just cultural.
> Plus: Music is used as a tool of the antagonist by using computer-generated music to hack the brain of those that hear it and affect brain chemistry directly. Used as a drug, and eventually a crude form of mind control manipulation. Fantastical effects with some semblance of science behind them.
> Macross 7: Establish that psychic vampires are a thing, draining the mental energy out of people and turning them into vegetables using specifically designed harvesting tech. Basara, meanwhile, is on a personal mission to apply the example that Minmay set at the end of Space War One (using music to end the war) as a universal solution instead of a one-time miracle. Over the the course of the series, what starts out as space magic is slowly turned into a reliably used principal to the point that Doctor Chiba can build machines that interact with and amplify song energy, making magic into science even though they don't know all of the details yet. Music is both the tool of resistance against the Protodevlin by Basara, and the key to Glepelnitches plan to create a self-replenishing energy farm, making it used for good and for evil at the same time.
> Frontier: Song Energy has been reclassified as the first detectable kind of Fold wave, which becomes the basis of FTL communications experiments that accidentally aggro the fuck out of the Vajra, who communicate exclusively using that medium. A fact exploited by Grace to attempt to hijack their entire network.
>>14393006
>poorly designed
>Everyone looks like putty for some odd reason
>>14393003
It's not really a running theme, but it's not just one character either.
>>14393022
So 7 ruined it.
>>14393025
Did somebody molest Tomino?
>>14393022
>no fantastical elements
>other than super advanced hologram technology and the fact that Macross City can be rebuilt in a week
>>14393022
By the time we get to Delta, using people capable of generating fold waves/song energy to change the brain chemistry of people that are suffering some kind of space rabies and calm them the fuck down (which, in turn, turns out to be the effect of an protoculture FTL communication device repurposed into a mind control weapon) is actually pretty damn logical. It only seems insane because it depends on taking for granted this in-universe escalation that has been going on within the Macross franchise for decades.
>>14393006
Booty blasted Macrossfag, go back to Robotech.com
>>14393044
>implying Robotech fags give a shit about Macross sequels
You can't even sling insults correctly.
>>14393011
>>14393018
Bloody awful. It looks more like she's trying to squeeze her eyes out their socket than anything. This animator seriously does not know how to draw squinting?
I don't really speak in any terms about the quality of the shows as really I just ignore that and watch what I like regardless. So understand that I'm basing this purely on "I like this" or "I don't like this" and am not saying anything about whether these shows are actually good or bad.
All I know is while I haven't watched any of Delta yet, I quit watching G-Reco as it aired around episode 5 because I was bored and didn't want to have to wait a week for each new epsisode of a show that wasn't interesting to me. At least old shows I can marathon through the boring parts and then keep going. 7 is my favorite macross series, but I probably would've dropped it too if I wasn't able to just crank through 8-9 episodes in a row to get past the slow first half.
As for their work in general, I like both. I like most things.
>>14393058
It's amazing how /m/ never ragged on the show's artstyle until this VS thread popped up. Anything to defend that G-Reco delusion.
>>14393076
You should try marathoning G-Reco now. I dropped it while it was airing too but thought it was pretty enjoyable when I marathoned it.
>>14393089
>/m/ never ragged on the show's artstyle
You must be new here
>>14393051
The joke went over your head totally, you eternal autist.
>>14393089
The artstyle in Delta has been its biggest critcism since its first images were released. It didn't just pop out of nowhere. What you think /m/ was okay with Walkure and how Mikumo has literal shit on her head?
>>14393089
t. Valvrager
>>14393102
/m/ only raged about the first shots of Delta because "REEEE idols". I didn't see any complaints about the actual art.
