Why is SDF still far and away the best Macross series?
>>14372836
Because you have a lot of nostalgia watching Robotech as a child so you overlook any flaws it may have.
>>14372836
Because Ishiguro is a much, much more competent director than Kawamori or anyone else he hired to work on the sequels.
The real question is why the hell he wasn't brought back to continue work on the series when it's been gratingly clear for a good while now that Kawamori has no fresh ideas to use anymore.
>>14372914
>This shitposter again
That's not Macross 7
>>14372996
Macross 7 is the absolute worst Macross seriesthat isn't Plus
>>14372984
>someone says the truth so he's shitposting
Anyone that thinks SDF is the best is shitposting anyway.
>>14372984
>The real question is why the hell he wasn't brought back to continue work on the series when it's been gratingly clear for a good while now that Kawamori has no fresh ideas to use anymore.
Memory serves, didn't he take up LoGH in part hoping that he wouldn't just keep getting pigeon-holed into Macross-esque series?
>>14372914
Found the Plusfag from Reddit
There is no bad Macross anon, only a few dullones.
>>14373143
This guy knows what's up. II, parts of Zero, and the early episodes of 7 are a bit dull and/or repetitive, but still manage to avoid being outright bad.
Everything else is great.
>>14372914
I only recently gotten into Macross, and I've never seen Robotech.
I think it's the best.
Checkmate. Suck my toes, worm.
>>14373143
>>14373227
>Plus
>anything but bad
Choose one.
>inb4 I choose both
Nah uh ahhh.
>>14373143
YUP...each Macross has been good.
>>14373249
Nah, fuck you. Plus was fun as fuck. Hardly the best Macross, but still excellent.
I like all of them and don't really feel a need to rank them.
What are you gonna do, faggot?
>>14373454
>Relying on Dragon Balls
>Not awakening The White Doll or IDEON, GOD OF GM'S
ayyyy
>>14373249
Provide some reasoning behind this dismissal?
>>14372836
Because all the sequels focus on elements that were pretty light in the original. SDF Macross isn't a show about music, it's about fighting giant aliens. That's what you and I want out of the show, that's what the sequels barely touch on as they shove soft rock or idol nonsense in your face.
>>14373839
There's still fighting in the sequels you ignorant faggot.
>>14373839
Um, it's been pointed out time and again that the fighting AND music were vital points that led to the end of the war, and that's what the sequels are building up on.
Unless you're talking about robotech.
>>14373995
>>14373839
>SDF was about combat
Hahaha. No. 90% of the battles were brief and glossed over. Notice how we didn't SEE the 20 enemies Max shot down on his first mission. Please cure your delusions.
>>14374002
Different strokes for different folks mate
>>14373296
>>14373474I honestly haven't seen Plus, just wanted to stir the pot.
I'm so sorry.
>>14374063
Plus is genuinely bad though. Its plot and characters are shitty daytime soap opera level. Its proponents only bring up its visuals and occasionally the music because there's nothing else that worth defending.
Macross > 7 > DYRL > Frontier > 0 > Plus > 2
I was surprised that Harmony Gold allowed the ADV dub to take place with the original Japanese VA for Minmay doing the English voice instead of the nail scratching Robotech one.
>>14373839
>SDF Macross isn't a show about music, it's about fighting giant aliens.
Really? Because the show was 70% relationship drama from what I remember.
>>14374215
nostalgia fags seem to gloss that over. It's like that part doesn't matter, but if you think about it, it's the macross that after frontier, is the one most focused on its love triangle.
>>14373143
>There is no bad Macross anon
II, 7, Zero and Frontier are bad
>>14374215
I actually like the characters and relationship stuff in Macross.
If you just want to watch cool robots there are other shows for that.
>>14372914
Stop protecting, I've never watched Robotech.
Hell I didn't even know what Robotech was untill someone on MAL mentioned it.
>>14372836
It had a semblance of balance and was more about the relationship between the ensemble cast then trying to sell you music or inserting an obligatory love triangle. After SDF Macross became moreso about its mythos then successfully blending all three aspects together to create an engaging narrative and you kinda get the feel of what the problem is with Delta checklisting all its tropes when the show can work perfectly fine without them but because this is a Macross title they have to be in them thus stripping away potential interesting characterization and development for tripe romance and singing. Even Gundam has done away with old conventions from time to time but for some reason Macross has had a firm gripe on itself stopping it from moving forward since 7.
>>14374215
You remember incorrectly. SDF was super well balanced and the novelty of the zentradi culture shock was a great plot pioint that made for some really interesting non combat segments for episodes. The relationship drama was there but never overstayed it`s welcome or felt like it was taking over the overall plot. Fights are numerous and range from quick and dirty to extended scenes or even multiple episode engagements. Splashes of idolshit that don`t really feel like pandering and actually do get the point across the Minmay is keeping morale up for all these civilians trapped in a warship in space by being a cute girl doing cute things but it's not pushed nearly as hard as in later series despite what AKB and lovelive fags would have you think.
Macross was based as shit, just finished it like a week ago
>>14374215
>From what I remember
Then you don't remember well. It was 35% giant robot fights, 35% character development/relationships and 30% music and later showing the effects of culture shock. Source: I finished it 6 months ago.
>>14375052
>7 is bad
Definitely not. Average yes but not bad. I'm at ep.18 but the first ten episodes were kinda boring and the use of stock-footage sometimes rage inducing but it gets better around episode 12 or 13 and now I'm defintely enjoying it.
>>14374082
>Plus is genuinely bad
Is this some kind of dank new meme that I'm not aware of ?
>>14375195
>Average yes
No its bad. Taking 20 episodes for a show to get itself in gear is bad. But because retards like you exaggerate a few "hype" moments can say a poor looking dull show that has everyone believing that 7 was good when ut actually lead to the franchise's current creativity stagnation.
>>14375211
> Taking 20 episodes for a show to get itself in gear is bad
Of course it's bad, but if the rest of the episodes are good then I'm willing to go through them
>Retards like you exaggerate a few hype moments
Where the fuck did I talk about "hype moment ? I like the show FOR THE MOMENT because it expands on the Macross Universe, Max and Milia return, the Valk designs are cool and the soundtrack is good.
>>14374190
Not that surprising.
Harmony Gold was still getting a cut of the money from it.
That's actually been the biggest point of contention in recent years - they're sort of okay with Macross coming over, so long as they're seeing a share from it.
Big West, justifiably, doesn't wanna play that game. So we have the impasse we're at now.
>>14375211
7 is a 6/10 show just based on the number of forgettable and boring episodes, and a 5/10 because Mylene is insufferable.
>>14375190
This guy fucking gets it. I don't know where this meme of "Macross was always 100% about idols and if you don't agree then go back to robotechx.com" came from. SDF Macross was all about balance between fights, love triangle and music being used as a cultiral weapon and a moral support for the civilians, and that's why it was so fucking awesome. Also I think that the episodes after the 28th were interesting because I can't think of a show that deals with the aftermath of war and the difficulties of cultural acclimatation for the former enemies.
7>DYRL>SDF>Frontier>Plus>Zero
I haven't seen all of Frontier yet, so I may change my mind, but this is my impression so far.
7 is the best because it has my favorite characters and soundtrack in the franchise, and also because its plot was incredibly well focused. I didn't feel like a single moment was wasted. I even liked the first 20 episodes, repetitious as they could get at times. They did a fine job of setting up the story and showing why Basara came to be taken seriously. For all the shit he pulled, I'd expect it to take that long.
plus has the best music and best vfs. i also like isamu because he's not boring as fuck like hayate, alto, and hikaru. i can't remember much about shin, but i'm assuming he's boring too because i can't call up his personality. believ it or not, i don't want to listen to basara's song.
![1920_1080_20100405010300388813[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/WufcxaF.jpg "1920_1080_20100405010300388813[1].jpg")
>>14375430
Zero has the best VFs.
SDF>DYRL>Plus>Everything else>Zero
Zero was just a mess of bad ideas and terrible characters.
I don't like Frontier or what I've seen of Delta so far, but they're about even in terms of quality. Both are better still than Zero.
7 is boring as shit aside from maybe 15 total episodes. It has a memorable ending, but most of the show (not just the first 20 episodes) just put me to sleep. I also don't like most of the characters aside from Max, Milia, and Gamlin. Still better than Zero.
>>14374082
>Its plot and characters are shitty daytime soap opera level. Its proponents only bring up its visuals and occasionally the music because there's nothing else that worth defending.
I don't get it. Why would you complain about Plus and then go on to describe Frontier instead?
>>14373243
>>14375083
This is a good way to tell if somebody was born in the late 90s. I'm not arguing for Robotech, but it was pretty unavoidable if you were into Japanese animation in the 80s or early 90s.
>>14375276
That kinda makes sense. ADV aren't the creators of Macross, so any profit was good for them. Whereas Big West actually have a creative stake in Macross. It feels like money is being leeched and stolen from you.
>>14377469
Some of the same issues apply with Plus and Frontier especially with the the relationship drama
Let's be honest here do you ever see a Plus thread talking about it's plot or characters, like for real?
>>14375105
>Even Gundam has done away with old conventions from time to time but for some reason Macross has had a firm gripe on itself stopping it from moving forward since 7.
What exactly has Macross kept doing since 7 because the only thing I can think of is "music".
I thought Macross was notable because no two series are even close to being similar to each other and it does keep moving forward. Something like Delta couldn't exist before say, 7
>>14378971
Yes, a few weeks ago. It might even be in the archive.
>>14379092
It was about how shit the characters and plot were.
>>14378948
> watch anime in the 90s
> hear about Marcross years before I hear about Robotech
No, it was plenty avoidable, especially if you're not American.
>>14379094
>it was about how shit the characters were
It was mostly about how fucking retarded Plus haters are. Also, why did you think the characters were shit ? And why do you have such an autistic hateboner for Plus ?
>>14378948
>but it was pretty unavoidable if you were into Japanese animation in the 80s or early 90s.
As someone who is literally a 90s kid, I literally never heard of Robotech until I came to /m/
Macross is shit in general.
You'd better off watching love-triangles on CW.
>>14375105
>It had a semblance of balance and was more about the relationship between the ensemble cast
>successfully blending all three aspects together to create an engaging narrative
Why do you mention these as if these are positives? They are merely the direction the plot took. If that's entertaining to you, fine, but it isn't as if the other shows are worse off for having a more narrow focus. If they manage to be more entertaining because of it, then they are better shows.
>for some reason Macross has had a firm gripe on itself stopping it from moving forward since 7
Zero came after 7 and was undoubtedly the most different and out there the series has ever gotten. It was also irredeemable trash, but that's neither here nor there.
>>14378948
>it was pretty unavoidable if you were into Japanese animation in the 80s or early 90s.
I hadn't heard of Robotech until I discovered /m/. I'd been aware of Macross for far longer.
My toes. Suck them, worm.
>>14375316
This.
Also, I like the fact that even though more recent Macross shows keep getting more and more fantastical, there is a weirdly logical progression to the universe.
Basara is the sort of character that in a vacuum is totally nonsensical, but in a world where Lynn Minmay is a historical figure would inevitably exist.
Even Delta, with all of its weirdness, is just the Jamming Bird project from M7 taken to its logical extreme, and pitted against protoculture technology that has been hinted at and built up upon throughout the rest of the franchise (drawing heavily on protocutlure goals and themes introduced in Frontier).
Macross keeps changing and never fights the same enemy twice, and rarely carries over characters or locations, but despite that it manages to have this bizarre but consistent and evolving setting.
I think that's pretty impressive, honestly. It would have been much easier for them to have given us like 3 shows in a row of fighting various different Zentradi factions with their own gimmicks and shit.
>>14375316
>"Macross was always 100% about idols
No one says this. They're saying it always had idols in it so complaining about idols in the newer show is incredibly stupid. Nostalgia fags only seem to have fond memories of the parts they actually liked, the mecha and zentradi, and forget about the singing aspects of the show.
>>14373243
>>14379433
Stop trying to include your foot fetish in every post you fucking weirdo.
>>14379721
I've only seen DYRL but the music is part of what I like about it, cheesy old jpop is part of its unique weirdness
>>14373143
Frontier is legitimately terrible.
>>14380005
The movies are good though
>>14380005
I'm about halfway through it right now, not quite seeing where you're coming from. It does rely a lot on older entries and focus on the love triangle a bit much, but it's got plenty of good points. Most of them coming from Sheryl. I didn't realize it was possible for a non-pilot idol singer to be so based.
>>14380045
>Most of them coming from Sheryl.
Oh so your tastes is just shit? Carry on
>>14380260
I don't give a single fuck about the character herself. I'm just getting all kinds of laughs out of watching her BTFO Ranka left and right.
>>14379222
>Why do you mention these as if these are positives?
Because there was more to like about SDF other than its music and romance. That's jack shit to like about Frontier outside its music since the characters are incredibly one-dimensional and the romance was terrible and the focal point of the series.
>Zero came after 7 and was undoubtedly the most different and out there the series has ever gotten.
Zero is just going about the foundations 7 made.
>>14378980
>What exactly has Macross kept doing since 7 because the only thing I can think of is "music".
The notion of music being a physical manifestation that has the power to move the universe itself rather than just a clever metaphor in SDF that didn't detract from the fact that battles were fought between machines and not magic. But besides that 7 started the trend of Macross being in love with its own mythos then actually doing something new making every entry since feel like the sum of its own parts that something cohesive. It takes 20 episodes for 7 to create something resembling a plot when before it was the same shit, Frontier never actually develops a plot and felt like a handful of episodes strung together under a loose theme or enemy that just so happens to create an antagonist for everyone to fight in the end so we focus more on the love triangle instead. The less said about Zero the better since it feels like a failed experiment rather than something that's different for the sake of it.
>I thought Macross was notable because no two series are even close to being similar to each other and it does keep moving forward.
That's just a meme. In actuality all Macross series are similar and follow most of the same tropes (love, music, pilots) but none of them manages to do anything interesting with those aspects after SDF juist focus on one aspect and leave the others in the dust, not really sure what Delta is trying to though since its love aspect feels rushed thus far.
>>14380348
Well with that logic, Delta is probably the best TV series after SDF
>>14380392
>Delta is probably the best TV series after SDF
Too bad it doesn't know what the fuck it wants to be. It's just been a checklist thus far with nothing to make itself standout other than having terrible character designs and art
>>14380348
How can it's love aspect feel rushed when it's barely started and hasn't yet gone anywhere?
>>14380348
>Because there was more to like about SDF other than its music and romance
And it's a good thing there was, because neither of those elements were particularly well executed.
>That's jack shit to like about Frontier outside its music
Frontier's music is awful
>since the characters are incredibly one-dimensional and the romance was terrible
No more or less than SDF, especially given how much of a Minmay clone Ranka is.
>Zero is just going about the foundations 7 made.
How do 7 and Zero have anything in common other than magical music?
>But besides that 7 started the trend of Macross being in love with its own mythos
In what fucking way? All the references 7 makes to SDF are shallow at best aside from the one scientist obsessed with Minmay.
>It takes 20 episodes for 7 to create something resembling a plot when before it was the same shit
From episode 1, 7's plot was about Basara trying to make everyone listen to his song and move the mountain. It just took 20 episodes of Mylene trying to make Fire Bomber more popular before his music actually started to matter.
>juist focus on one aspect and leave the others in the dust
And if the one aspect they focus on is well-executed enough, then that's all that matters. Execution is 90% of what makes a show worth watching. There are very few premises that cannot be made worthwhile by skilled writers even if they do not appeal to you.
>>14380507
Why didn't you watch 7 before posting about it?
>>14380475
There's no start up to it or rhyme or reason why either candidate even likes Hayate to begin with.
>>14380507
>because neither of those elements were particularly well executed.
Opinion. It has its charm though I don't see how the music is any worse than anything that came after it. The romance was badly executed but wasn't a focal point.
>Frontier's music is awful
Respectively disagree
>No more or less than SDF, especially given how much of a Minmay clone Ranka is.
Nah, with SDF they at least give you a reason to give a shit about the characters on screen. I can tell you one thing that nobody gives a shit about Luca, that asshole Sugita voiced and the bulk of the Skulls force outside Ozma, the movies showed how incredibly expendable most of the cast in Frontier were given that they removed one of them and it didn't effect the narrative at all.
>All the references 7 makes to SDF are shallow at best
You mean having TWO FUCKING CHARACTERS THAT ORIGINATED FROM SDF BE PART OF THE MAIN CAST IS CONSIDERED A SHALLOW REFERENCE?
>From episode 1, 7's plot was about Basara trying to make everyone listen to his song and move the mountain.
Except that's not made poignant in the first episode or the second or the third, we don't get to actually know what the hell Basara wants to do unto 10+ episodes in and before then he's really just some annoying weirdo who people puts up with for some odd reason other than the fact that he's the MC compared to Hikaru who will pretty much get everything down from the first episode Basara is largely an enigma for less than half of 7's run.
>And if the one aspect they focus on is well-executed enough, then that's all that matters.
Not really, that's like saying you deserve an A for doing 1/3 things right that's ignoring the fact that no other Macross has managed to pull off one aspect well barring Plus and that's mainly because it was all about mecha action, the love aspect of Frontier is terrible---
>>14380612
and unless you have the patience of the saint you're best bet is to just download 7's OST then to actually sit down and watch it.
>>14380612
> There's no start up to it or rhyme or reason why either candidate even likes Hayate to begin with.
That doesn't make it rushed, even if it were true. It's not hard to see why either of them likes him though. He's saved Freyja's life multiple times and while he started off poo-poo'ing her dream has said several times that he enjoys her singing, while Mirage almost certainly admires his skill and free-spirit, including his lack of concern with rules or legacy, something she can't escape.
If you don't want to like Delta that's fine, why you can't just like it for the things it does instead of making things up is beyond me though.
>>14380612
Basara is basically the perfect self insert protagonist before they became a thing. The entirety of 7 serves to suck his dick and show off the magical singing powers he's inexplicably given.
>>14380612
>wasn't a focal point.
When you have an entire arc dedicated to it, it counts as a focal point
>Nah, with SDF they at least give you a reason to give a shit about the characters on screen
Like what? The only one that made me feel a damn thing other than mild amusement was Roy
>You mean having TWO FUCKING CHARACTERS THAT ORIGINATED FROM SDF BE PART OF THE MAIN CAST IS CONSIDERED A SHALLOW REFERENCE?
It is. They matter in a completely different capacity than they did in SDF, and show much more characterization and personality in 7 than they ever did previously. Sure, there's a time or two where they step into a Valkyrie, and their relationship is a background element in 7 (and was done quite well in my opinion), but for the most part, their pasts are irrelevant.
>Except that's not made poignant in the first episode
It's not the show's fault you need everything spelled out to you. It's pretty clear that Basara wants his singing to be important in some way from the way he goes into the middle of a military conflict and starts singing.
>Not really, that's like saying you deserve an A for doing 1/3 things right
You do if 95% of the test is about the one thing you get right. Not to mention that I like 7 a lot specifically because it mostly ditches the love triangle aspects to focus on giant robots saving the day with rock and roll. I'd vastly prefer they focus on that than your usual sappy character drama.
>>14380663
Nigger, Basara put in shitloads of hours singing at space vampires before anyone gave him any magic powers. But go ahead, keep complaining that those first episodes were pointless.
>>14380640
>It's not hard to see why either of them likes him though
Yes but it helps if the show actually acknowledges this and make it a focal point in their development rather than just "whelp guess its time for them to be falling for one another" . It makes more sense for Freyja to fall for him than Mirage at this point and honestly the latter doesn't need to be involved in a love triangle at this point given there a lot more to her thus far. It's disappointing but not a detriment to the quality thus far at least they're not making the winner obvious this time around.
>>14380683
>Basara put in shitloads of hours singing at space vampires before anyone gave him any magic powers
Did you forget about how anima spiritia was a thing from the very beginning?
>>14380663
I don't know that I'd call Basara perfect. Even in universe a lot of people find his routine annoying and several people like Gamlin and the pirates in Dynamite enunciate that feeling. Gamlin got to know him, but it took time for Gamlin to get used to him and come around to liking him. He's also completely unconcerned with the sexual relationships of any kind. Several women are obviously in to him, but rather than be oblivious he just doesn't care. And women being in to a rock star pilot who saved the universe isn't really a stretch.
>>14380691
The show doesn't need to stop and have the character's say their feelings out loud to make it clear why they're doing what they're doing. The show also didn't just go "Welp time to start falling for one another now I guess". Freyja and Mirage both got to thinking about it after Makina and Reina started talking about how you shouldn't waste time in a war, with Freyja then getting jealous of Mirage spending time with Hayate a short while later. She wasn't sure what she was feeling or why and while she realized what was happening by the end of the episode it hasn't dominated the show since or anything. She just acknowledged it and is now moving on. Which is fine. That isn't out of nowhere, rushed or having no rhyme or reason.
>>14380700
Be that as it may, any singer that had Basara's passion probably could have done the same thing. The only reason Basara was chosen over anyone else is because his music in particular was shown to be effective by chance when someone left Planet Dance playing over the guy that was in a coma. That, and Basara was understandably the only singer in the entire fleet who had experience piloting a Valkyrie and could look after himself in a battle.
>>14380683
>entire arc
Yes one arc towards the end where it was pushed aside for the majority of the show's run as Hikaru's goal rather than something that was made the basis for all three characters involved doesn't make it a focal point.
>Like what?
Max? Claudia? Bruno? Seriously most of they cast in SDF are given residence to be onscreen unlike Frontier, does anyone remember Ranka's friend? Or anyone on the bridge?
> but for the most part, their pasts are irrelevant.
Yeah it just makes up the cornerstone of the characters and why they broke up to begin with and got back together. Nothing but a shallow reference.
>It's not the show's fault you need everything spelled out to you.
Just stop. There's nothing in the first few episodes that shows that's Basara's goal, you only say its obvious after you've watched it but for first time viewers he's just a kook getting in the way of conflict for a vague reason and that's Macross 7 in a nutshell, a series that's good in retrospect but painful to sit through.
>You do if 95% of the test is about the one thing you get right.
Yeah but Macross is about three things, you can't do one thing right and be considered good, the best thing is to either do away with one aspect entirely and focus on one. While 7 doesn't focus on romance there is one and its terrible, while 7 doesn't focus on mecha it has the most boring uninspired choreography in the franchise filled with nothing but stock footage. So about the only thing it gets right is the music so what you have left is an excellent soundtrack being stuck in an overall subpar show.
>>14380704
>Gamlin got to know him, but it took time for Gamlin to get used to him and come around to liking him. He's also completely unconcerned with the sexual relationships of any kind.
That's literally just generic self-insert writing. The rival comes to respect them and join their side. They're oblivious to the obvious approaches from the opposite sex.
>>14380752
If he was perfect then everyone would love him instantly. And while Basara and Fire Bomber have many fans, a lot of military guys, poachers and so on just find him annoying. He also gets his ass kicked in fights, including in for instance the first episode of Dynamite - with the poachers and cops ignoring his singing and him getting tasered and near knocked out by one of the characters to get him out of the way so they could pursue other characters.
>>14380704
>The show doesn't need to stop and have the character's say their feelings out loud to make it clear why they're doing what they're doing.
They kinda do or else its gonna feel like they came out of nowhere. I'm not saying that both characters come out and confess their love for him but actually come to the revelation themselves instead of it just happening in one episode.
>The show also didn't just go "Welp time to start falling for one another now I guess"
That's literally what happened. There was no signs of actual attraction until the 9th episode, everything else was just shipperfaggotry that could barely be considered love especially given how antagonistic Mirage was towards Hayate in the beginning and how much of a jerk he was towards Freyja as well so there's no actual rhyme or reason to why this has to be a thing other than "this is a Macross anime there has to be romance". So yes it does feel rushed and I fear it'' get overstuffed in a show trying to juggle too many things at once.
>>14380005
frontier is based
>ITT: People dumb enough to think Macross was ever good.
I'm glad Robotech butchered your shitty pop song space opera trash.
>>14378948
I was born in late 90s, and Robotech was still prevalent while I was growing up
They had Shadow chronicles, I think it was even being advertised in GameStops. The DvD rental at my grandma's stocked the original RT and I remember watching it over the summer.
>>14380777
> actually come to the revelation themselves instead of it just happening in one episode
Again, not really - because, again, viewers can look at what's happening and come to their own conclusion of why one character would find another character attractive based on observations and the characters can come to the realization that they do find that character attractive over time. Which happens in real life and has happened multiple times in this franchise alone.
> there's no rhyme or reason as to why this has to be a thing
The rhyme and reason is that Hayate stopped being a jerk and that all three got to know each other. How is him acting like a jerk towards strangers but becoming friends with them and that friendship meaning no longer being a jerk but instead becoming attraction based on respect for skills, saving life and so on either a surprise or not a reason?
So again, how is something that has barely started yet and has taken 12 episodes just to lay out basic characterization rushed?
>>14380815
Where did you live?
>>14380740
>pushed aside for the majority of the show's run as Hikaru's goal rather than something that was made the basis for all three characters involved
Then why is it so difficult for me to define any of them outside of their relationships with each other? Sure, they may have certain traits, like Minmay coming from a poor family or Misa having an old flame, but these hardly mean anything in the big picture. None of them have much of a conflict outside of who Hikaru likes more with one exception: Minmay's uncertainty over whether she should keep singing.
>Max
No point except to make a baby with Millia and bring humans and Zentraedi closer. Almost zero personality or character.
>Claudia
All she fucking did was give Misa advice
>Global
He was legitimately important, but he didn't make me give a shit about him.
>There's nothing in the first few episodes that shows that's Basara's goal
What other reason could he have for endangering himself by flying into an armed conflict just to sing?
>Yeah but Macross is about three things, you can't do one thing right and be considered good
Wrong. Macross has three things. It is not obligated to focus on all of them proportionally. I do agree that these shows would be better off not including the elements they don't focus on, but Kawamori has his fetishes. Anyway, weren't you the one arguing that SDF doesn't have romance as a focal point?
>while 7 doesn't focus on mecha
It does though. It's practically the only Macross that has a fight in almost every episode. It's also the longest Macross. I can forgive the stock footage. It was inevitable given the previous two facts. But anyway, I do think that it gets the action right when it needs to get it right. The important moments in the plot all look decent enough.
>So about the only thing it gets right is the music
And since the plot was about the importance of music, I'd say that makes for a successfully story if it did the music justice, regardless of what else happened.
>>14380836
NYS
>>14380809
>implying Roboturd had any direct effect on Macross's continuity
Stay deluded and BTFO'd you ignorant uncultured retard.
>>14380823
>viewers can look at what's happening and come to their own conclusion of why one character would find another character attractive based on observations and the characters can come to the realization that they do find that character attractive over time.
That's called shipping. You can do that with any character if you're delusional enough and if the show does nothing with it.
>The rhyme and reason is that Hayate stopped being a jerk and that all three got to know each other.
To the point where they're infatuated with him? Needless to say you can save someone's life and be grateful for it without wanting to suck their dick and as far as we've seen he hasn't done much to go beyond just being friends and while you think that's enough for a love triangle I can't say I approve.
>>14380838
>Then why is it so difficult for me to define any of them outside of their relationships with each other?
Because you're not trying. Misa doesn't even have anything to do with the love triangle for the most part and the bulk of the show if focused on her rise to the top and putting up with Hikaru's bullshit also he falls for her not the otherway around. Lynn is pretty much easy she's just a dumb teenage girl, her entire arc is her raise to fame and her regret afterwards its the classic rags to riches story in comparison to Ranka and Sheryl who don't work unless Alto is in the picture since their main motivation is centered around him made more obvious when Sheryl couldn't do anything without Alto as motivation and couldn't move on when she thought he had died in the last episode. The romance in SDF was just a sprinkle but it didn't encompass both characters of their own arcs to grow and to come to a mutual understanding which is something Frontier couldn't do right because drama sells.
>>14379728
Do people really think foot-licking is a punishment? I thought he was trying to seduce you.
>>14380823
Don't bother arguing with that idiot. His epic meme image he made himself just says how stubborn he is about his opinion. You can't convince him any of the sequels are good or gasp are even better than the original. His head is too far up his own ass to listen to reason.
But frontier was better.
Sheryl Nome >>>> Minmay and Misa.
>>14380883
I lived on the west coast and barely heard of Robotech in the 90s.
>>14380891
Misa had no character arc. All she cared about was wanting Hikaru's dick. And it's funny you say Delta's romance feels "rushed" when originally Misa wasn't even going to be a love interest for Hikaru. She was originally supposed to be in a relationship with Global and it was only half way through the show they decided to have her develop feelings for Hikaru. The romance is SDF was horrible. Especially with Misa falling for Kaifun because he vaguely resembles her dead "boyfriend". Funny how SDF fags like yourself tend to omit this detail.
>>14380891
> That's called shipping
No, it's not called shipping when you're just talking about stuff that happened in the show and which the show is directly developing.
> You can save someone's life and be grateful for it without wanting to suck their dick
Of course you can. That doesn't mean it's either the entire basis for the attraction or that it can't happen even if it was. Just because something doesn't happen 100% of the time doesn't mean it can't happen some of the time.
You approving of it doesn't mean it's rushed if the show is putting in the time to show that Hayate stopped being a jerk to them for several episodes or weeks (like, 7 or 8 of them) and it was just friendship, during which time they talked about other things regularly and slowly developed feelings for each other over that time, coming to that realization only in time and because of outside interference.
>>14380891
>the bulk of the show if focused on her rise to the top
What the fuck are you talking about? Misa did not have any kind of character arc about trying to advance her career. It came up a few times, but it was absolutely not something that drove her or defined her.
>in comparison to Ranka
Ranka is a Minmay clone, so she behaves accordingly. Her rise to stardom is all of her own volition; it has nothing to do with Alto. It makes sense that Sheryl wouldn't care for much other than Alto because she already has everything she wants in life except him, but even then, she expresses concern for her Macross Galaxy and sings on its behalf every now and then, and that aspect of her is completely separate from Alto.
>>14380889
It had a direct effect on making you buttblasted faggot. :^)
>>14380838
>Almost zero personality or character.
His entire character is based on his whole reputar as being The Ace i.e. to show that Hikaru wasn't the best of the best and to give him his own life rather than following him. Can't disagree about how tacked on his relationship with Millia is though.
>All she fucking did was give Misa advice
She was her wingwoman who gave Misa a dose of humanity who didn't have nothing outside of work. And her relationship with Roy and eventual loss was a turning point for both of them.
>but he didn't make me give a shit about him.
You are a lost cause if you didn't care for him, he was a scene stealer every time he appeared and the best captain in the franchise.
>What other reason could he have for endangering himself by flying into an armed conflict just to sing?
We don't any of that in the first episodes, all we get is that he's some retard butting into combat and we're just as perplexed as Gamlin.
>It is not obligated to focus on all of them proportionally
Then once again why include them when they're not needed? 7 didn't need a love triangle, Zero didn't need a love triangle and Delta doesn't either but they were included anyway because of tradition and their the weakest aspects of those series.
> It's practically the only Macross that has a fight in almost every episode.
Yep looking at the same amination again over and over and over again sure meant that mecha was a focal point and not a means to fill in time compared to Delta which actually went into the detail of the VFs being used in combat and how piloting works, 7 sure did give a shit about its mecha.
>And since the plot was about the importance of music, I'd say that makes for a successfully story if it did the music justice, regardless of what else happened.
So its just needless baggage. I don't have to watch the show at all. if 55% of it is just worthless.
>>14380923
Alto also has nothing to do with her deciding that she's going to sing even if she doesn't have Grace or fame or fortune and so on in the show's late teens. So I've no idea how someone can claim she only operates for him and him alone when it's demonstrably not true. She sings because she enjoys singing and that's it. That was literally part of her arc in the show.
>>14380913
>>14380923
>Misa had no character arc. All she cared about was wanting Hikaru's dick
This is a worse meme than the go back to robotech spamming.
>>14380838
>It does though. It's practically the only Macross that has a fight in almost every episode.
Now, I like 7 but that's a terrible argument to use for 7 considering the arguable quality of it's fights. It's a common note that you do not watch 7 for it's dogfighting
> It's also the longest Macross.
That's an even worse argument
>>14380913
>>14380923
Am I being rused here? Of course she had a character arc and it wasn't about falling for Hikaru and hell most of her characterization wasn't even focused on Hikaru until the end when the show ran out of time and budget.
>>14380923
>Ranka is a Minmay clone
Wrong, Minmay was a lot more selfish and less of a heel which was the whole point pf his characterization and why she didn't "win" as oppose to Ranka who was largely naive and lovestruck and didnt win because Sheryl was more popular not because it fit the narrative or her development.
> Her rise to stardom is all of her own volition; it has nothing to do with Alto
She literally said she wanted to rise to be closer to him.
>stuff
Yeah none of that makes sense. Her falling for him is about the least realistic aspect of this franchise other than the fact that she was conceived before him in development.
>>14380939
>Alto also has nothing to do with her deciding that she's going to sing
Try watching Frontier at some point.
>>14380965
>Wrong
Not him but Ranka and Sheryl were explicitly stated to be SDF Minmay and DYRL Minmay respectively by Kawamori
>>14380974
Try making an argument at some point.
>>14380983
>explicitly stated to be SDF Minmay and DYRL Minmay
>Both are completely different and go through different character arcs
But I'm guessing if you're stupid enough to believe anything Kawamori says you'll believe in anything.
>>14380965
>because Sheryl was more popular not because it fit the narrative or her development
Rankafags are still this delusional? Even in the TV version - hell, even early on in the TV version - it's clear that Ranka never stood a chance. Alto just doesn't ever see her in anything resembling a romantic light.
>>14380936
>His entire character is based on his whole reputar as being The Ace i.e. to show that Hikaru wasn't the best of the best
Thanks for confirming what I said. Whether or not Hikaru was a good pilot wasn't a plot point.
>gave Misa a dose of humanity who didn't have nothing outside of work. And her relationship with Roy and eventual loss was a turning point for both of them.
As with Max, you are defining her entirely in relation to other characters rather than what she does on her own.
>he was a scene stealer every time he appeared
I will not deny this; I enjoyed Captain Global greatly. I just didn't think he was much of a character. Kinda like Taiga in GGG. He was good for pointing at the monitor and yelling "UTTTTEEEE," not so much at being interesting on his own. Max in 7 was much better in that regard.
>Then once again why include them when they're not needed?
And once again, I agree with you. However, I'm not going to act like a show is majorly flawed for having a flawed component that it doesn't really focus on. I'd also argue that Zero didn't have a love triangle; I could not detect any feelings between Shin and Mao, only playful teasing from the latter.
>Yep looking at the same amination again over and over and over again sure meant that mecha was a focal point
If you define "focusing on the mecha" as going into the specifics of how combat works and how the machines operate, SDF did not have any focus on it whatsoever, and neither did any other series in the franchise aside from Plus, and I guess Delta (haven't watched it yet). But if you define it as showing off the abilities of the machines without explanation, 7 obviously had more of it than any other series. I like how they had Sound Force specific units and other Valkyries assigned to guard them. Battle 7 also got a surprising amount of time in the spotlight.
>if 55% of it is just worthless.
The music makes up a bit more than 45%, if you ask me. Multiple songs in every episode and whatnot.
>>14380965
>Of course she had a character arc and it wasn't about falling for Hikaru
Then what was it about?
>She literally said she wanted to rise to be closer to him.
Yeah, except that you're ignoring that her being an idol only sends her farther away from him because she has a much busier schedule. It wouldn't make any sense for her to become an idol to get closer to Alto. She did it because she wanted to for herself.
>>14380996
>He was good for pointing at the monitor and yelling "UTTTTEEEE,"
And even in that area, he has some pretty stiff competition from Jeffrey.
>>14380996
Global's key thing wasn't about being captain and giving out orders, it was how he fostered peace with the enemy.
>>14380996
>Thanks for confirming what I said
I didn't confirm anything you said just that there was more to his character than what your argument entails.
>Whether or not Hikaru was a good pilot wasn't a plot point.
It was. Go actually watch SDF at some point
>As with Max, you are defining her entirely in relation to other characters rather than what she does on her own.
No? Her character was that she was an emotional pillar for both of them and had to pick herself up when Roy died. There's nothing wrong with a character being defined by their relationship because SDF was all about its relationship drama it becomes a problem when a character only exists to get the dick and nothing else.
> I'm not going to act like a show is majorly flawed for having a flawed component that it doesn't really focus on.
Then why have it to being with?
> I'd also argue that Zero didn't have a love triangle
It was there, it was just poorly handled much like every aspect of it.
>SDF did not have any focus on it whatsoever
There's literally a section of the show dedicated to showcasing the Valkyries in comparison to the opposition and also prolong focus on combat that isn't interrupted every damn episode.
>But if you define it as showing off the abilities of the machines without explanation, 7 obviously had more of it than any other series
It didn't because almost everything amounted to "its just magic I don't have to explain shit"
>>14380993
>Alto just doesn't ever see her in anything resembling a romantic light.
Its still cute that people truly believe her loss had anything to do with the narrative and nothing to do with her lack of popularity. Not even a Rankafag since I hated Frontier but don't be delusional, Japan is pretty out and open about this shit and the reason why Delta doesn't have this happening is because its not nearly as popular.
>>14381054
If Japan is out and open about it, then they'll have discussed it at some point and you'll be able to provide a link backing that wild assertion up.
>>14381054
Her loss was made clear early enough in the series that
>Delta
>not hugely popular
Oh, you're just making shit up. That explains it.
>>14381054
>Japan is pretty out and open about this shit and the reason why Delta doesn't have this happening is because its not nearly as popular.
Talking out of your ass I see.
>>14381085
>>14381073
>Her loss was made clear early enough in the series that
Cool story bro. And I'm guessing Shinn lost to Kira and Athrun because the narrative demanded it as well.
>Delta
>hughely popular
This is the part where you post the Newtpe Rankings, and we all know how relaiable those are I mean IBO ranked first and we all know how popular that show is
>>14381085
>Newtype Rankings
'>>14381091
>Month old Amazon Rankings
>someone mentions popularity
>thread gets filled with autist shitposters from both sides
Fucking A
>>14373039
>still shitposting
Give it up faggot, no one is going to bite.
>>14381043
>I didn't confirm anything you said
You did. Skills have nothing to do with character if they do not have an accompanying explanation. Otherwise I could say that Basara's a good character because he's good at singing.
>It was
Then please refresh my memory as to what happened and why it mattered in the grand scheme of things, although I doubt it does matter, because if it did, I'd remember.
>There's nothing wrong with a character being defined by their relationship
There isn't, but I'm not about to give a shit about a character who has no story of her own.
>Then why have it to being with?
Once again, because it's something Kawamori likes.
>a section of the show dedicated to showcasing the Valkyries in comparison to the opposition
At what point? The SDF-1 itself got some pretty good focus with its transformation and how the main gun wouldn't work, and the difficulties with the pinpoint barrier system, but I can't recall the Valkyries getting any kind of focus. I don't think the Regults were even mentioned by name.
>It didn't because almost everything amounted to "its just magic I don't have to explain shit"
Thanks for missing the point; I specifically said "showing off the abilities of the machines without explanation." Which I guess I could have put more simply as "showing the mechs doing things." 7 has more robots doing things than all other Macross shows. Of course, the way it accomplished this was questionable, but it still led to some pretty cool moments every now and then. Pic related.
>>14380993
>even early on in the TV version - it's clear that Ranka never stood a chance
It's called an underdog story you moron, it's a theme that is common in almost every single macross.
>>14381147
Yea, cause I mean the underdog obviously won in 7. And Plus. And Zero. The only Macross the underdog won in was SDF.
>>14381100
>we all know how reliable those are I mean IBO ranked first and we all know how popular that show is
But they are reliable newfag. The fact that IBO is getting a second season is proof that it is popular. It's just the West especially /m/ really has shit taste in comparison. Don't tell me you'll give the whole Kadokawa publishing owns them conspiracy bullshit.
>>14381155
>Yea, cause I mean the underdog obviously won in 7
No one really "won" in 7, and the theme of the underdog was more about Fire Bomber, who started as an irrelevant no name no label band that maybe 5 people would show up to watch.
>And Plus
Guld definitely lost, but there was another underdog story there: pilots prevailing against AI taking all their jobs and freedom away.
>And Zero
The underdog in Zero was the island culture. It didn't win.
>The only Macross the underdog won in was SDF
Minmay may have led Hikaru's personal waifu wars for quite awhile, but she started off as a poor gal working a Chinese restaurant that got separated from her family. The underdog story was her rise to fame. There was also yet another one in SDF: the survival of the human race in general. They should have been utterly fucked by all accounts, they came through with some masterful psychological warfare.
>>14381167
>The fact that IBO is getting a second season is proof that it is popular.
No its getting a second season because it was planned from the get go
>>14381194
So your point is that the underdog story that won out in all of those had nothing to do with the romance? Which you're using as examples that the romantic underdog in Frontier should have won. Have I got that right? Because I was clearly speaking only to the romance stories in those series, not anything else and assuming you meant the same given that you were using those shows having underdog tales as precedent to why it should have happened in Frontier.
If none of the rest of those shows had underdogs win, bar SDF, why should Frontier have had to do it? An underdog story is only one possible story, and having that element in the setup doesn't require that you follow through by having the underdog win in romance. Especially since Ranka did still have an underdog win by becoming the top idol, above even Sheryl. So she still had an underdog element, just not the one you want. Just like pretty much every other Macross.
>>14372984
Kawamori is only the executive producer.
>>14381214
>Which you're using as examples that the romantic underdog in Frontier should have won
No. I'm not even the original guy you were replying to. I was just expanding on how it was a common theme.
>There are seriously people who thought Ranka could win after episode 5
>>14381226
Okay, so it's still a theme in Frontier then. Ranka beat Sheryl by taking her producer and spot as number one idol. Humanity beat the Vajra who were much more numerous and could become impervious to anything. Alto became the SMS ace despite starting out as it's whipping boy. And so on. If it doesn't matter about how the theme is applied, then the theme is still there - just not in the one sense he was asking for. Same as it wasn't a theme in that sense in most other Macross series.
>>14381054
At what point did Alto show that he saw Ranka in a romantic light? Compared to Sheryl who he turned into a consistent blustering fool around, had sex with and were literally living together at a point
>>14379721
yes they do
the complaints are never that idols exist, nobody is stupid enough to act like it was never in the show, try actually reading the posts you are replying to. The point is the amount of it. The idolshit has blown way out of proportion from the earlier entries and is far more obnoxious than before.
>>14381257
>yes they do
Nobody ever says "macross was always about idols". What people do say is that "macross always had idolshit in it" which is true
>The idolshit has blown way out of proportion from the earlier entries and is far more obnoxious than before.
In a universe where 7 happened and Minmay is the legacy of the original Space War more than anything, obviously that is going to become more important over time. It's not like the franchise suddenly became "idols are the only main characters now". It's not like they stopped having VF fights or utilizing culture, hell the entire conflict of Delta hinges on a bunch of aliens trying to force their culture on everyone else.
>>14381257
It's only obnoxious if seeing cute girls sing triggers you hard. Go watch Shadow Chronicles if you don't like idols.
>>14381272
>Nobody ever says "macross was always about idols". What people do say is that "macross always had idolshit in it" which is true
It's technically true but misleading since the definition of "idolshit" has changed significantly from SDF (Minmay singing and being a teenage girl) to Delta (AKB-style idol harem projecting physical weaponry using their voices)
>>14381485
>Delta (AKB-style idol harem projecting physical weaponry using their voices)
>Walkure projecting physical weaponry using their voices
>harem
Wow, and just like that you made it obvious you didn't watch the fucking show because NONE of that happens. Fucking idiot. Get the fuck out of this thread.
>>14381247
The later episodes.
>>14380904
huh
East coast best coast, by the way
