http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2016/06/11-1/anime-eyes-have-become-burdensome-to-productions-according-to-staffer
>The talk is that just drawing the eyes for a modern anime girl takes as much effort as it used to take to draw the entire bridge of the Space Battleship Yamato
>>14348997
I think the big complaint isn't just the detail, but how the animators aren't paid worth shit for the amount of time it takes to do the detailed eyes.
>>14348997
That seems unbelievable. There's not nearly as much detail in one as in the other. They might take time, but I cannot believe it's because of detail. Primarily because there just doesn't seem to be much of it.
>>14349006
It's a bad comparison, but I guess it's probably detail + movement. The Yamato's bridge is just a background scenario, after all.
I've noticed it recently with this anime. Her eyes were often off model and simplified, which is probably the type of issue they're talking about.
>>14348997
Is this an argument against anime eyes, or in favor of ship bridges?
>>14349017
I hope the former. I miss it when animes had smaller, more realistic eyes. Sayaka is cuter than >90% of modern anime girls just by virtue of not looking like a little green man alien
>>14349044
>I miss it when animes had smaller, more realistic eyes.
So, never?
>Drawing three frames featuring modern anime eyes can take two hours, while average pay for one frame is ¥200 (just under $2).
>“At this rate, animators can’t eat (;´Д｀)"
>>14349065
>My hand hurts
>The chair is cold
>Her eyes are too big
>I wish I was drawing Yamato's bridge.
>>14348997
Source of the article.
http://www.otakuusamagazine.com/LatestNews/News1/Modern-Anime-Eyes-Take-Way-Too-Long-to-Draw-Says-A-7831.aspx
>>14349075
It's not their fault she has alien parasites in her iris.
>>14349044
>when animes had smaller, more realistic eyes
Pray tell, when was this?
I can understand the argument. The creators of a lot of these series love to give their girls unique insane detail oriented eyes which are probably a bitch to animate.
>>14349157
And they have to waver, or gleam, or turn flat, and all sorts of ludicrous shit on top of tracking and whatnot.
>>14349250
And then you have them slightly different for every. Single. Character.
We need another Cabbage Memo for the industry. "Less details in the eyes (and more space bridges)."
The obvious downside is that the nerds of the future will say that eye designs have been dumbed down, and pine for the days when characters had a solar flare in their iris.
>>14349299
>Bring back the 7 later lens
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/2016-animator-dorm-project-by-animator-supporters--2#/
>Animating in Japan is such a shit job that they now have to beg Gaijin to help fund cheap dorms for animators just to live.
>>14349012
Those are considered detailed? It's literally 4 colors and a gradient. There's nothing detailed about them.
>>14349328
They're complex enough that in many scenes they completely drop the design and just painted them as standard irises.
>>14349044
>I miss it when animes had smaller, more realistic eyes
The fuck am I reading
You know the entire point of some of anime's earliest shows was how they were imitating Disney's giant eyes right?
>>14349328
Okay, try having to draw those a > 30 times, at different angles, taking in to account lighting and expression. Also, make sure everything is on model. Those details eventually get to be a burden.
Animation can be hard and tedious.
>>14349336
>they completely drop the design and just painted them as standard irises.
To be fair, that's a medium distance shot, possibly an inbetween. It would literally be impossible to draw those eyes or any amount of considerable detail on something that small on a tv budget and schedule.
>>14349044
> I miss it when animes had smaller, more realistic eyes.
It's time to bring out "that...
>>14349322
It honestly sounds like being an animator isn't sustainable. How much longer until it collapses?
Whether or not you love animating, it's not going to help ya if you can't even feed yourself, assuming you don't die of overwork.
>>14349388
In some shots they attempt to keep the design even at distance, but then in others they just give up.
>>14349511
Here's an example of them giving up.
>>14349368
>>14349146
>>14349056
I never said they weren't bigger than they would be in reality, but I think they used to be smaller on average than they are today, and they sometimes even drew pupils more accurately instead of making them be almost the entire eye
Compare this to >>14349012
>>14349491
It's the same everywhere.
Animation is a hard and demanding job which pays badly... unless you animate furry porn.
It is a passion-driven field.
>>14349511
The way I see it, in the first screenshot Chika is moving, in this one she doesn't seem to be. So it probably just depends on either the scene itself or just how much time or effort the animator(s) wanted to spend on this particular scene.
>>14349528
From left to right
>saucer eyes
>square slit eyes (most realistic of the bunch)
>megane-chara
>saucer eyes at a distance
>literal dot eyes
Why not just draw the Yamato bridge inside their eyes?
>>14349530
Sorry for using the spoiler command, but look at this one.
>>14349518
She's standing still but doesn't have the actual eye design.
>>14349552
Again, context. I'm guessing having to draw 6 characters at a medium - close range means they can't draw everything in detail. Haru's eyes are more detailed than the others because he's closer.
>>14349528
Holy shit is that poorly drawn and off-model.. then again it's Toei after all.
Will anime shift towards having simple eyes again?
>>14349530
>>14349569
Yes, that's the reason in some scenes it's simplified like that, but the only reason it needs all that simplification is because the design is so complex in the first place compared to the other eyes even in that show itself. The simplified form ends up with even a different eyecolor than the full one since it's a mix of colors and a gradient.
>>14349569
Every designer provides a guide a for "eye at closeup, eye, eye at distance" so it's not that they can't but they shouldn't even be allowed.
>>14349518 looks obviously better so it's probably the right way.
>>14349528
There are way better examples you can use to illustrate your point, but even then you'd still be incorrect. Anime eyes have always been huge things, it's one of the most distinct features of the art style. Even in your own image you have the same sort of saucer eyes as what you're arguing against.
The big difference between your picture, and the other you link to, is that I have this mental image of the girl with the super gleaming sparking eye shooting laser beams out of them.
I cannot be the only person seeing these girls having eye lasers.
>>14349581
Depends on the designer. You'll usually see it a lot more if it's from someone like Kogawa. Then again, I think simple-looking eyes tend to enhance character designs a bit imo.
>>14349596
>>14349322
Jesus.
And it's not as if life in Japan is cheap. Rent in the cities is high, groceries ain't free. You can't marry or start a family like that.
>>14349729
Solution: Animation studios should move out to the country. They should hire workers to maintain farms in order to feed the staff. Essentially, anime studios should become self-sustaining country communities. They can even export their produce for profit and run a local inn!
>>14350174
You know, running a kibbutz might help the writers and artists creatively. If you don't have an idea yet, just go work in the fields and chew on it until inspiration strikes.
>>14349328
>number of colors = difficultly
Are you actually retarded? Do you think Turn X is easier to draw than Turn A?
>>14350174
>all anime comes from isolated monasteries way up innamountains
>free blueberry hooch with your BD purchase
>>14350220
>animator: this thing is difficult
>some talentless nobody (You): no it isn't! git gud!!1
>>14350242
Except I never implyed the later. Learn to follow a conversation you dumb fuck.
>>14350242
Considering the post he's replying to is saying "that's not hard" I'm pretty sure he's arguing against that. Maybe saying, "it's not the colors that are the problem, it's the detail in the eye" or something along those lines.
>>14349729
Exactly. The next time /m/ starts bitching about what is "killing anime" remember this. It's a complicated thing with a lot of different factors
When you're animating a whole production, little things like that can really add up. Like in Samurai Pizza Cats, half of the characters had big snouts and beaks. Might not seem like a big deal at first, but when it comes time to animate that means they can't cheap out on the mouth flaps like most anime do. They had to constantly redraw most of the character's face for every frame of talking.
>>14349065
They get payed by the frame rather than hourly ?
That's just a recipe for poor quality.
>>14348997
So that's why Atra shape shifts into a happy face.
>>14350221
>robot anime made by /m/onks
Why hasn't this happened yet?
>>14349542
The trick it seems is to animate a steady stream of fetish furry porn and use the money from that to fund the cell-animated masterpieces.
>>14350174
You're saying that animators should become peasants.
Also, small hiccup: sustenance farming takes a shit ton of time and energy. When they're ploughing a field or harvesting crops, they're not animating.
>>14353458
So you're saying that you cannot read.
>They should hire workers to maintain farms in order to feed the staff.
Small hiccup: learn English
>>14353476
Why would an animation studio, that cannot afford to pay their staff money, be able to pay farmers to produce enough food for their animation staff?
>>14353516
It was a joke post, but since you want to be a smartass autist then let me explain how it could work seeing you're pretty dumb.
1. Vastly reduced living prices when not in city means less money spent for continue studio operation
2. Invest in initial farming operation startup to generate profits before actually moving the production company
3. Merging with an existing farm is an option
4. Farm, once operational, will generate profit from selling extra produce and services
>>14353458
Farming is super intensive in Spring/Early Summer, and Fall; but you do literally fuck all during mid-late Summer and Winter besides maintaining live stock.
Particularly Japanese farms, in which the community spends Spring planting from Sun-up to Sun-down but the Summers and Winters they do almost literally nothing.
It would be totally plausible for a company of animators to farm in season and then work on animation for long hours out of season.
t. Worked on Multiple farms
>>14349017
is it too much to hope for both
All modern anime eyes are so divorced from even stylized reality that its obnoxious.
Like what the fuck are these things. There's no pupil. It's just more insane colors all the way down
delete moeshit
>>14353787
Or you could just buy a bunch of Cambodian slaves for the price of a red bean bun.
