>DYRL and Plus are the only good Macross
Why do I keep seeing people (or the same person multiple times) posting this? Plus was shit.
Plus wasn't shit, just okay. It's certainly not the last great Macross. But to answer your question some people think good animation and music is all that matters to enjoy something and don't care how shallow the characters and plot are.
Being this butthurt over somebody liking a Macross without the usual idolshit? Christ almighty someone is suffering from a bad case of autism.
>>14346656
Olds fags in their 40's. I think each Macross has something good to offer. The amount of goodness is up to you. But I'm not gonna rage and say Plus was the best of the best.
>>14346682
Plus's characters aren't even that shallow. they're presented well enough for a 4 episode series.
>>14346686
I think someone posting a post like that, has little room to speak to others about autism
>>14346689
They were certainly much better than Hikaru and Minmay, and much less infuriating.
Plus is somewhat overrated around these parts, but anyone who says DYRL is better than SDF is just baiting. Far from the worst Macross has to offer, but it's still an overly condensed and soulless retelling of original.
>>14346742
Fuck off, BobSamurai.
>>14346742
DYRL is great because it's a nice alternative to SDF. But of course you shouldn't watch it before the original serie.
I like 7 the best. All peace princesses and idols would be improved by being Basara clones
>>14346829
We came close.
>>14346656
>drones and ai are taking over irl
>but isamu wrecks robot face in the name of humanity
Plus is oldfaggotry incarnate, which is why it's loved by only the most cultured of chinese tapestry painting bulletin board posters.
![macross-dynamite-7-basara-cardboard-prop[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/wvkHeMP.jpg "macross-dynamite-7-basara-cardboard-prop[1].jpg")
>>14346698
>much less infuriating.
They were just less.
A cardboard cutout of Basara has more character than the entire cast of Plus.
>>14349882
Guld was the one who beat the ghost, and he had to commit suicide to do it. Isamu did beat Sharon, but she was never trying to kill him and didn't actually shoot him when she had him at his mercy. Alto did more by beating Brera than either of them did realistically.
Sharon > All other girls
She can also sing more than one song on repeat
>>14350015
> She can also sing more than one song on repeat
Bar Mylene, they all can.
>>14346656
>Plus was shit
Still better than Zero and Frontier
>>14350034
Could have fooled me Basara
>>14350042
I didn't include Basara, since he's not a she. I though it was only females being counted.
>>14346656
>DYRL and Plus are the only good Macross
That's bullshit, i'm watching every Macross series in production order right now. I'm at ep. 17 of M7 and everything is god-tier to good for the moment, except M7's first ten episode which were kindda boring.
>Plus was shit
That's also bullshit, Plus is fucking awesome, but it may not fit everyone's taste. Its only drawback is that the story is sometimes vague and not as amazing as the animation, and maybe a lackluster ending.
>>14346686
For fuck's sake stop complaining about idolshit in Macross, idols are as part of Macross as are Valks and love triangles.
>>14346698
Isamu and pals were pretty fucking infuriating.
But they somehow managed to be the fun kind of infuriating.
>>14349901
No, not really.
>>14350034
Mylene did have one or two songs besides "My Friends," but yeah, she only sang those once or twice. She also sang some of Basara's songs once or twice. I remember her singing Planet Dance solo at least once
>>14346656
Plus, DYRL and ZERO are the best macross series ever
even Macross II is better than that shit Macross 7 and Frontier
>>14346656
I automatically consider all Macross that has idols/singing shit. So far I haven't found a good one.
>>14349882
>but isamu wrecks robot face in the name of humanity
That's not even what happened.
>>14346656
Because it's true, get over it.
Frontier got really close to being good but I felt the bad guys were kinda shit.
Why does singing trigger people so much?
Every Macross is good, the fuck is wrong with you dummies?
>>14350955
>Muh mature manly space opera
II and Frontier TV aren't very good though
>>14346656
>DYRL and Plus are the only good Macross
>Why do I keep seeing people (or the same person multiple times) posting this?
Because it's true.
>>14350979
I didn't say any of it is mature or manly, but even if they aren't, they aren't not good.
That control stick he's got his right hand on looks particularly phallic.
>>14351095
>I didn't say any of it is mature or manly
I'm explaining the usual reasoning for not liking them
>>14350072
The problem with plusbabbies is that a lot of them have only seen Plus. Plus frames their opinion of Macross should be, just like titanfags think that all anime have to be like SnK, Bebop or OPM.
There's nothing really wrong with Plus, but as with most things, the fanbase is just shit.
>>14350979
TV Frontier is better than Movies Frontier.
AND WE
>>14352407
ROBOTECHX
>>14352378
I watched SDF first and I still think Plus is far and away the best thing to come from this series. SDF has the best characters though.
The only ones that I really don't like are the ones made this century. Time will tell if Delta ends up being better than Frontier, but so far it's about on the same level.
>>14351209
Skred
>>14352378
yes, that's the real problem, and not one you made up in your head.
Plus felt like a weird hipster art film to me
I mean animation and action wise yes, DYRL and Plus are fucking great. Everything else? No. Fuck man I have the movie version of Plus and watch it occasionally.
Its like the same people who think Gundam should always be G Gundam all the damn time.
>>14352584
plus was the most straight forward macross.
>>14346656
Considering kids nowadays literally can't watch anything that is longer than 12 episodes sure.
>>14352627
So macross quality is inversely correlated to the ammount of episodes?
>>14352431
>Time will tell if Delta ends up being better than Frontier, but so far it's about on the same level.
Personally, the lack of SEED-esque melodrama already puts Δ at a significant lead over F, though the plot and characters are still completely vapid, unfortunately.
>>14352378
For another /m/-specific example of this - people who get their first taste of UC Gundam through the OVAs and then expect it all to be SUPER SERIOUS GRUNTTASTIC MILITARY PORN
That said for this thread's purposes - DYRL is pretty enough, but I still don't have it in me to say it's superior to SDF in terms of story or characters. So much of the charm of the series is ironed out for a streamlined narrative.
Also, I mark the movies as being when the brand went from 'Culture' to 'Nah, just the music'
>>14352704
>Nah, just the music
That's never been the case, though.
SDF used music as a vehicle for culture.
Plus used music as a vehicle for subliminal brainwashing.
7 used music as a vehicle for emotion/life energy.
Frontier and Delta used music as a vehicle for fold-wave communication.
It's never truly been about the music. The newer entries all do exactly the same thing SDF did: they use music as a stand-in and representation for something broader.
>>14352714
Don't forget Zero using music for "muh superior tribal culture birdman magic"
>>14352704
>This focus on music REEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>14352722
The music in and of itself isn't the problem. It's more the disappointment that they went from an actually fairly interesting idea of overall culture shock to music becoming a narrative cure-all.
Then again, judging by your response, you're prettymuch just going to write this off anyway. Somewhat ironic given the series we're discussing, but hey.
>>14352714
SDF really didn't lean as hard on the music as you're presenting here. DYRL did that more retroactively.
Music was a factor in SDF TV, but it was one of a bunch of things. Britai's fleet turned because, by and large, they heard all the stories from the spies about how good life was on the Macross. Songs were an element, but they weren't really a huge piece in that first show. Hell, Max and Millia's baby arguably did as much to change minds in the first series as Minmay's music did.
Even in the push against Bodolza, music was only one of a few pieces of the equation - and not exactly the pleasant one a lot of later titles would present, as it was being used as a shock tactic (same with the interactions between men and women).
>>14352741
>Overall culture shock
Yes, because the big bad stopped being the zentradi you cunt.
>>14346656
>Plus was shit.
>>14352714
7 WEAPONIZED SONG ENERGY.
1000 CHIBA SONG ENERGY UNITS ARE REQUIRED TO ACTIVATE THE SOUND-BOOSTER - THEN YOU GET TO FIRE A LASER.
>>14352741
>It's more the disappointment that they went from an actually fairly interesting idea of overall culture shock to music becoming a narrative cure-all.
Because they essentially took the idea of culture shock as far as they could in SDF and DYRL with the Zentraedi. After that, it's a post-Minmay universe so things aren't going to be the same in SDF. They can't just do the culture shock for every bad guy, that would be repetitive so they've treated singing in a different way each time. It's why no other series has done the same "sing until they go away" like 7 or hypnotism through singing like Plus. It has to be treated in a different way each time. Sing until they go away certainly didn't work for Frontier that's for sure
I think many forget that Macross is on a sliding timescale. This galaxy is a one where the legacy of the first great war wasn't the pilot or a robot but a singer. It's a galaxy where the next guy to attempt to be like the singer ended up being the hero. This isn't the kind of stories that are told through just war and war alone, the same way the battle isn't won through nothing but singing alone. I figure people who like SDF would see that, but they only focus on "there's cute girls now"
>>14352714
IN 7 THEY MOUNTED THE SOUND BUSTER ON THE MACROSS CANNON. MAX FIRED A GIANT BALL OF DEATH/MUSIC AT A BLACK HOLE AND WOULD HAVE KILLED IT IF THEY GOT A SECOND SHOT.
God damn you are pussy. You probably avoid targeting the cockpit like faggot fucking Kira "pussy" Yamato.
kys
Plus was one of the earliest localized series and is arguably the easiest to get into. Plus it's short, doesn't have a lot of characters and has great animated fights, so I can see why someone would say it's the best if they had it as their first entry not knowing it's pretty unindicative of the franchise.
Personally I've always thought Plus was pretty overrated and only liked it's fight scenes because those were some great fight scenes, but there isn't nearly enough of them as I thought there would be. Also, I hated every character
>>14352782
>>14352801
How is that disproving what he said? Using music as a stand-in for something broader, that's pretty much exactly what you're describing
>>14352816
Lynn Minmay stopped a war by singing. It would be pretty funny if years later a singing Military unit was formed.
No part of that is "music as a stand-in for something broader" this is not high art its robot cartoons.
>>14352844
>this is not high art
I never said it was.
>>14352847
So you admit you are wrong?
Checkmate.
King me.
I started OG Macross but am forcing my way through it. There's a lot of cool stuff there, but Minmei is such a vapid cunt that I skip through half the episode. Hayase is great, Hikaru is alright, Roy Focker is fantastic, but there's not enough of him. Also, the idea of a city in space is fun but it's dumb to waste resources on night life and beauty pagants when they're fighting against aliens that want to murder them all. I would rather we see the Macross start off fun and happy and then become more and more war economy driven as the characters get more hardened.
You know people keep on sayin Plus is the most acessible Macross. I agree but its a poor representation of the franchise that it will color their expectations of what Macross as a whole is.
>>14352862
Preserve culture is the moral of macross right. Keep morale up.
>>14352862
Noone wants your stupid fucking opinion on what you wanted the show to be. Get a blog.
>>14352862
>I would rather we see the Macross start off fun and happy and then become more and more war economy driven as the characters get more hardened.
Fuck that shit.
SDF gets as dark as it needs to especially later anyway
Minmay does suck
>>14352868
>You know people keep on sayin Plus is the most acessible Macross.
It's the most accessible. It's not the most representative.I mean, I'd arguably say the most accessible and representative ouside the original would be Frontier since that was the entire point
>>14352876
Yeah, but it's a whole city with restaurants and night clubs and all kinds of stupidity. If there were Victory Gardens or robots recycling the wasted food show, it would be more realistic.
>>14352883
I love chocolate and watermelon, but combining that stuff is pretty gross. Either go Macross Delta and have sexy planes and cute girls doing awesome stuff or commit to your serious story about war and culture.
>>14352895
>it would be more realistic.
Nobody cares what you want
>or commit to your serious story about war and culture.
How many episodes are you in? Like 7 or 8? Finish or get halfway through the series before complaining it's not doing things right
>>14352888
>SDF gets as dark as it needs to especially later anyway
Tomino dark or Okada "dark"? I want to see people breaking down.
>>14352898
15 episodes in, way beyond my usual drop point. VOTOMS has a rough start but I loved it by episode 12.
>>14352902
The earth gets fucking glassed
>>14352921
That's not really dark, though. A million deaths are a statistic. Seed has a gazillion people dying in the backstory, but it's 90 percent soap opera bullshit.
>>14352927
Roy and Kakizaki dies. It becomes so desperate and humans had no way of winning until half of the Zentradi fleer were concinced that culture was something to be protected. Minmays song scaring many Zentradi while giving awe to other to join their cause.
>>14352927
In the movie, there are no survivors. Every single living being on Earth dies and a significant part of the movie is just Hikaru and Misa wandering the Earth in a Valkyrie looking for some form of life. Literally anything, even just a tree or something, and falling further and further into despair at their repeated failures to do so and the fact that with only the scant resources from their Valkyrie keeping them going, they'll probably die before long
>>14346656
I think Plus is brilliant and OP has no taste.
>>14352927
Anyone have a gif of where the soldier tries to protect the girl as they both get vaporized?
>>14346656
>Why do I keep seeing people (or the same person multiple times) posting this? Plus was shit.
Don't worry mate, I see plenty of threads where Macross Zero is heralded as a great Macross entry. Every once in a while you even get someone that says that Macross 7 is the pinnacle of the Macross franchise. So don't lose your health over it.
>>14346772
>DYRL is great because it's a nice alternative to SDF. But of course you shouldn't watch it before the original serie.
DYRL's only redeeming grace is the gorgeous animation and somewhat nice (but not all) songs.
That is it. In terms of characters and story it is absolute garbage. But this is nothing new, compilation movies are like that. DYRL wasn't the first and certainly wasn't the last compilation movie ever made.
>>14353068
DYRL wasn't even a compilation movie; it made a number of changes to the plot, including
>Roy getting a better death
>Kaifun being thankfully absent (for the most part)
>Hikaru not really ever showing attraction to Minmay. Also, the bitch slap
>Max not having anywhere near as much presence
>Minmay being kidnapped by the Zentraedi and thus being out of the plot for a fair bit of the movie
These are all positives in my opinion. DYRL did lack some of the cooler scenes from SDF though. I was hoping I'd see the Daedalus attack or the barrier meltdown, but no.
>>14353103
You list a bunch of major plot differences for DYRL, yet fail to include the fact that zentradi men and women are at open war with each other?
>>14353153
I didn't think the Meltrandi had much significance in either SDF or DYRL. Their sole purpose seemed to be so Max could have a baby with one of them
>>14352378
I've seen everything up to M7 episode 16, and I still consider Plus the best entry. But
you made a good point:
>Plus frames their opinion of Macross should be
>>14352809
>>14352868
>Plus is unindicative/poor representation of the franchise
That's wrong, because one of the franchise's main characteristics is that every entry is really different from the other in terms of atmosphere, characters and fights/love triangle/music balance. You go from SDF where the tone is 70%serious and 30% goofy with the 3 elements found in equal parts to DYRL which is roughly the same thing with maybe a bit more focus on music.
Then, we have Plus, which is darker imho than SDF and focused on plane and mecha fights, and less emphasis for the love triangle, but music is still important to the plot.
And then we have 7, which is apparently Plus's polar opposite.
Delta is kinda between Plus and Seven for the moment,and I haven't watched Zero and Frontier yet.
That's why no Macross is really representative of the series at a whole, and people should really watch everything in production order. Sorry for the rant.
>>14346682
>some people think good animation and music is all that matters to enjoy something and don't care how shallow the characters and plot are.
i openly admit this. Visuals are no substitution of good writing, but it's still very welcome most significantly so for mecha and other action genres. For short format animations like OVAs and especially for movies where the story moves at such brisk or erratic pace anyway the visuals remain unaffected and can still shine which can make a piece of work more memorable than others.
As for Macross Plus in the specific, no one who talks about how good it is ever really mentions anything about the characters or plot. While there are certainly themes present, they aren't handled in any artful way which is why Plus is remembered for its visuals and why people consider it as one of the better entries to the Macross franchise.
>>14353242
>As for Macross Plus in the specific, no one who talks about how good it is ever really mentions anything about the characters or plot. While there are certainly themes present, they aren't handled in any artful way which is why Plus is remembered for its visuals and why people consider it as one of the better entries to the Macross franchise.
I could not disagree more. Plus is basically ENTIRELY about the themes it explores. It's only ostensibly about the rivalry between Isamu/Guld, the 19 vs 21 project, and the love triangl. The real meat of Plus are the soundtrack itself and the dynamic between Isamu/Myung/Sharon which are used to make a statement about the intersection between technology and human perception/experience.
Isamu is a man who finds a life-affirming experience in taking to the sky. He loves flying and chases the horizon in search of a feeling of transcendence which is always just out of reach. Myung loves to sing and it gives her a similar feeling of fulfillment and purpose. She also loves Isamu and knows that both her love of music and Isamu's affections for her pale in comparison to his love of flying. Sharon Apple becomes the way in which Myung tries to give Isamu the transcendence that he seeks which neither her love for him nor the sky seem able to provide.
>>14353480
>cont.
Sharon's music is basically an AI (using Myung's vocals and emotions) which reverse engineers sound from desired neurotransmitter stimulation. In other words, it's composing music based on how it affects the brain's pleasure center. The music is literally a highly engineered drug and is totally capable of giving the listener the kind of illusory transcendent experience Isamu seeks. It's why the very ambient/aural electro score Yoko composed for Sharon works so well. The music is supposed to be hypnotic.
It resonates with me because I think the soundtrack really is effective in creating that experience and because music has always had a strong escapist utility for me. It does take me to another place mentally and I’m often very aware of how powerful the effect is. And if you’re inclined towards more scientific explanations of such experiences (e.g. “oh, I must have increased levels of serotonin or dopamine or whatever” as opposed to “omg I just feel so at one with EVERYTHING!!”) then I think Plus does a good job of exploring the authenticity of pleasure when it can be so easily induced and boiled down to chemical cocktails in the brain. This is all especially clear in the movie version.
I don’t think anyone evaluating Plus on plot/characters is doing a proper job of taking it on its own terms.
>>14353169
I meant the fact that
>series: allied but segregated forces of the same army
>movie: women are the foe the zentradi (all male) are fighting. It's an obvious simplification and alteration that doesn't make sense in the grander scope of the setting.
>>14353487
Wow, I never put "music as a drug" together. that is what was happening. I totally agree that the music of Plus is what really captures me. Yoko Kanno (ALL HAIL THE KANO!) really puts the soul into the show and without her sound I don't think I would have loved Plus as much as I do. There are few movies/shows that really meld the music with the visuals directly. Transpotting was a movie that did this well and when I listen to it's sound track I see the movie in my mind. The same with Plus. I have these albums on my iphone and when Santi-u, voices, idol talk, etc. come up on rotation I see Isamu, I see Sharon. I am in the YF-19 and I am shoring through the sky next to Guld.
Very few soundtracks do this to me. Ghost in the Shell, SAC does, but that Kanno too BTW!
>>14353527
Santi-U is pretty great.
>>14353480
>>14353487
Because all of that shit is irrelevant in the face of how entertaining the story manages to be, which hinges largely on how invested you are in the characters and their conflict, as you've made clear. Isamu is repeatedly shown to be rude, impulsive and self-centered, Myung is shown to be a gutless, mopey bore of a woman who can't let go of something that happened almost a decade ago, and of course, Sharon is crazy and Guld attempts murder several times. There are very few scenes where any of them display any positive personal qualities with the notable exceptions of Isamu going to rescue Myung and Guld recognizing his wrongs once he got his memory back. Still, for me, that wasn't enough to suddenly make me like them after everything I had seen before.
Furthermore, Plus isn't long enough to actually play out the themes you're discussing or explore their meaning with any real depth. There's a lot you could make out of a completely AI controlled military or a singer capable of what is basically mind control, but it just uses these things as setups for the action scenes in the finale. And as far as being all about these themes, you're going to have to explain why Guld was such a prominent part of the story if the story had nothing to do with him.
I also thought the music was garbage, so Plus really only worked for me in terms of visuals.
>>14353531
Pulse is the one that does it for me.
>>14353480
>>14353487
Nice explanation.
>>14346656
>Plus was shit.
Now listen up, you decultured dipshit.
Plus has Isamu, the pinnacle of Kawamori's Valk aesthetic which is YF-19 and After in the Dark, those three elements alone far outmatch anything the whole franchise has to offer.
>>14353543
I think Guld is largely there to serve as a foil to Isamu's brand of sensory, "comfortable in his skin," naturally attuned to the world around him, pleasure seeking. Macross has always been about the importance of music in human culture and in Plus it focuses on the physiological roots of that sensory experience and how it defines something about our humanity. Guld is a perfunctory, overly-logical, largely unfeeling alien who is sort of emotionally stunted and doesn't get music or love the way people normally do. It's an important counterpoint imo.
And frankly, if the OST just flat out doesn't do it for you, then Plus is not going to resonate with you and you're never going to see the merit in it. Which is fine.
>>14353570
>the pinnacle of Kawamori's Valk aesthetic which is YF-19
It isn't, not with that Gerwalk mode.
>>14353572
>Guld is a perfunctory, overly-logical, largely unfeeling alien who is sort of emotionally stunted and doesn't get music or love the way people normally do. It's an important counterpoint imo.
Not to mention he literally flies a plane that lets a computer do much of the thinking for him, versus Isamu who's relies solely on remarkable instinctive piloting. It's yet another way in which Plus explores the question of how well defined the border between mind and machine is, and how well defined should it be.
>>14346656
People substitute visuals for good writing. DYRL is a decent film but the actual plot of Plus is nothing to write home about. Not even the music was that great, Information High is the only noteworthy song IMO.
Those that are abrasive to idolshit should just give up on the franchise IMO. They're more annoying than the "gritty realism" fags in Gundam fanbase. In fact, I wouldnt be surprised if there's a massive overlap.
>>14353589
>It isn't, not with that Gerwalk mode.
Fite me fgt.
>>14353613
>People substitute visuals for good writing.
And people here substitute "writing I don't like" for bad writing.
Plus was fine, it had good themes, nice characters and decent narrative, nothing extraordinary by any means, but it was much better than the schizophrenic, nonsensical but otherwise gorgeus II, Monster of the week 7 and Frontier's cringeworthy waifu fanservice.
If you don't like characters because you can't deal with them being petty like>>14353543 says it's alright, that doesn't mean they're badly written or that the plot is bad, it just mean that you don't like them as people, which is arguably one of the effects of good writing.
You want to see what happens when AI get a hold of military equipment? Go watch GITS, that's not the focus of PLUS.
You want to see serious mind control stuff? Too bad, it's all stupid pop culture bullshit to begin with.
You want to see a nice, no bullshit short story about the life of a gifted pilot and his fucked up friendship and love story with some occasional moving moments, great action and some not so cliched food for thoughts? Watch PLUS.
>>14353657
> Monster of the week 7
Confirmed for not having watched 7. It's hilarious that you talk about "writing that I don't like" and then go to imply that monster of the week is a bad thing.
>that doesn't mean they're badly written or that the plot is bad, it just mean that you don't like them as people, which is arguably one of the effects of good writing.
It does. The plot is literally all about characters which it goes out of its way to paint as unlikable. If you don't like the characters, what part of Plus's plot works? How are you supposed to give a shit whether Isamu or Guld wins when you don't like either of them? Why should you care about Isamu going after Myung if both of them are insufferable? This isn't just about them being petty, it's about them not working for the roles they're assigned. If you have a character that puts a hobby of his above everything else and only really sees his job and others as a means to enable that hobby of his to the point of not caring who they are as people, this guy doesn't work well as a main hero. And that's exactly the kind of guy Plus cast as the hero. Myung was even worse. I didn't believe she mattered much to Isamu at any point and I failed to see why Guld wanted anything to do with her, I didn't understand what she saw in Isamu or why she still carried a torch for him after so long, her convictions were proven weak with the way she saw Sharon and she definitely treated her friends poorly. Not a good love interest, but that's what she was.
You can make a character conflict out of flawed people, but you can't make one out of people that have almost nothing but flaws.
>>14353657
Plus had pretty awful characters man. It's supposed to be character, not caricature. Which is what Isamu and Guld are.
>>14353713
I really like Isamu and Myung. Sounds more like your hang up rather than a problem with Plus.
>>14353736
Well good for you, but I have no idea why you like them. There's just not much to like going from what I saw. That's what I think the problem is. Plus really doesn't give these characters any positive moments to counterbalance their negative ones.
Maybe the movie was better about that, I don't know. I only bothered watching the OVA.
>>14353746
I admire Isamu's innate piloting ability as opposed to Guld's "strictly by the book" robot-man style and I like that he knew what his passion was and didn't let anything get in the way of it. I relate to his tireless pursuit of a feeling of contentment which perpetually eludes him.
I sympathize with Myung giving up her passion once it got tangled up in painful memories and like that at the end of the day she was still trying to move people with her music, even if she didn't realize how dishonest she was being with herself by taking a backseat to Sharon.
They're not perfect, but they're human in ways I understand.
>>14353713
>I didn't believe she mattered much to Isamu at any point and I didn't understand what she saw in Isamu or why she still carried a torch for him after so long
Come on man. Do I really need to explain the dynamics of why someone (especially a woman) is particularly interested in someone that acts like they have better things to do?
>>14353782
I get that part, but Isamu had to express at least a little interest for this to make sense. A girl can follow a guy around all she wants, but if he not once gives any acknowledgement of her, she'll eventually wise up and move on to someone who does.
If Isamu ever showed any feelings for Myung, they were so subtle that they flew under my radar.
>>14353789
The three of them were close friends as teenagers. He was affectionate to Myung in a platonic capacity at the very least, and she held a flame for him. Remember, the story is picking up long after the falling out over Guld catching Myung kissing Isamu. There's tension and they don't really wanna talk about the past. Of course their interactions are strained.
>>14353713
>and then go to imply that monster of the week is a bad thing.
I never implied that, I grew up on Mazinger so I'm quite fond of the monster of the week formula.
And yes, Macross 7 becomes literally monster of the week tripe by the time the Protodeviln show up.
>The plot is literally all about characters which it goes out of its way to paint as unlikable.
Opinions, I'm pretty fond of the main trio, I like Isamu because he's a jerk, I like Guld because he is a nice guy at heart and I like Myung being a useless moron, I find them more human than any character in 7.
>this guy doesn't work well as a main hero.
Isamu is not a hero, just a gifted pilot, if you thought he was going to be some kind of Hikaru or Max then you're just deluded.
> I didn't believe she mattered much to Isamu at any point and I failed to see why Guld wanted anything to do with her
Not my problem if you're shortsighted and can't see further than your own nose.
It's pretty evident that Isamu cared about her deep down, same thing for her, the entire Sharon Apple incident wouldn't have existed if that wasn't the case.
>I didn't understand what she saw in Isamu or why she still carried a torch for him after so long
Again, your problem.
>>14353727
>Which is what Isamu and Guld are.
If Isamu and Guld are caricature than the entire casts of Macross 7 and Frontier are less than jokes.
Damn, you guys really can't read between the lines uh?
You complain about PLUS' characters being too flawed or even caricature but don't say anything like that for people like Max, Basara, Alto, Minmay or Klan who're arguably much, much worse and are walking cliches.
Again, just because you can't relate to characters who act like actual people instead of dull anime stereotypes doesn't mean they're badly written, Isamu alone has much more character and is much more human than people like Max or Basara.
>>14353771
This guy knows what's up
Honestly people, I tried getting into Macross and wanted to like it so much, but the pure shitness of SDF, DYRL and Plus just made hate this damn franchise like I've never hated any mech series.
It pains me to my fucking bones to see Star Trek-esque science fiction to be grounded down to the fucking "muh love drama" bullshit.
It's simply insufferable.
Are we supposed to take all that "love is power" thing seriously?
Is this a fucking mahou shoujo? Or a comedy?
Because it takes itself like a pretty serious sci-fi.
I'll try to watch other Macross, but holy shit these three I've already watched were pretty bad.
Still artstyle and music of Plus were great.
>>14353795
I know. It's just difficult for me to believe they hadn't put the past behind them as long as it had been, but I guess there wouldn't have been a conflict otherwise.
>>14353796
>And yes, Macross 7 becomes literally monster of the week tripe by the time the Protodeviln show up.
>monster of the week
>tripe
Not making a good case for yourself. And besides, those last two Protodevlin are really the only ones that came out of nowhere and had little screentime. The others were there for like 20 episodes.
>I find them more human than any character in 7.
>Flaws=Totally realistic!
Oh you.
>Isamu is not a hero
He's the closest thing Plus has to one, what with him and his dashing rescue of Myung with the entire SDF-1 bearing down on him. I was not in any way expecting him to be Hikaru or Max (and I'd argue Hikaru is even less heroic than Isamu) on account of there not being any war going on, but I was expecting him to have at least something to make him likable or relatable with his role as protagonist. There just wasn't
>You complain about PLUS' characters being too flawed or even caricature but don't say anything like that for people like Max, Basara, Alto, Minmay or Klan who're arguably much, much worse and are walking cliches.
Look, I haven't seen Frontier yet, but this assertion is patently ridiculous for everyone except SDF Max, but even he got better come 7. What makes it especially silly is that Isamu and Basara are basically the same goddamn character. Both are incredibly stubborn, hotheaded people who relentlessly pursue their passion while ignoring a woman who admires them and have a rival that comes to like them and both have ideas that are eventually accepted by the military. But there's a big difference between the other Macross series and Plus. Other Macross series don't rely near as much on characters to tell their stories, especially so with SDF because it was about the interaction of cultures as a whole as compared to a few specific individuals
>>14353830
>It's just difficult for me to believe they hadn't put the past behind them as long as it had been, but I guess there wouldn't have been a conflict otherwise.
It wasn't THAT long ago. They're young adults (like late 20s or early 30s) and the fact is their lives haven't changed in the kind of way that makes what happened in high school seem like another lifetime. It's not like they've gotten married and had kids. They've gone off and fulfilled the very dreams they all dreamt together. It's literally like going to your high school reunion and people trying to show off how much they've changed since HS, but they really haven't. Not sure how old you are, but it makes more sense if you're in a similar age range or if you just have any kind of long term lingering regrets.
IF WE GET THE TRANSIENT FACTS
>>14352741
Putting a unique spin on music every entry was a very good idea. If every Macross sequel was about inducing culture shock to a new alien race every series, it'd get stale real fast. I felt they did everything they could with culture shock in the first Macross.
>>14353480
I didn't say that there are not ANY themes in Plus. What I was saying is that the themes that are part of the story telling are poorly handled or left unexplored. This leaves the audience having to fill in the gaps themselves or worse by just leaving certain plot points and character motivations unexlained and keeping the audience in the dark.
I'm watching Plus now (last episode to go) and while it doesn't have as big a heart as SDF, can we all agree that the concert scene in episode 2 was fucking amazing?
>>14354145
https://a.pomf.cat/uxnnvp.webm
Macross always has great concerts. (except for SDF's)
>>14354172
>Macross always has great concerts.
>picture of 7
>>14354145
The music killed it for me
>>14354182
Hey that opening concert in Dynamite was pretty cool.
>>14354186
You have garbage taste. The music was fucking phenomenal.
>>14354145
There's an even better concert scene later.
>the average Plusfag
Why do fat manchildren love Plus?
>>14354182
7 had the best concerts, man. Are you seriously telling me you wouldn't love to go to one of Fire Bomber's concerts, watch Basara parachute his way in, and then listen to them party onstage for awhile before they jump in some nearby giant robots to go sing to space vampires while you watch them on the screen, then arrive back for an encore?
Granted, 7 did have the worst concerts as the ones where Basara didn't even show up, but still
>>14353657
I literally never called Plus' writing bad but go off
I'm fairly ambivalent on Plus, and I think a large part of the reason I didn't connect with it is that the main conflict between Isamu and Guld resolves in too simple and quick a fashion. The OVA spends three episodes building up some kind of history between them that's caused a split in friendship and then it's resolved because Guld remembers that it was actually him, and not Isamu that tried to rape Myung and it's essentially instantly forgiven and forgotten. Which just feels too fast and simple for something that affecting. Isamu and him just laughing it off by listing off petty you-owe-mes before talking about getting beer isn't really a resolution to something that's split them for years and caused such negative emotion, especially something so heavy as attempted rape.
The show has other problems, but the convenient melodrama of "Oh shit, I was the rapist all along - oh well, what's a little rape between friends?" is probably the worst of them and just makes the entire conflict between the two of them, conflict that really drives and defines the entire production, rather dull and lifeless. Plus has some nice planes and fights and presents the whole package well (and I love the 19's panoramic cockpit), but I think it falls down on execution of the story and never really catches my attention because of it. I don't dislike it, I just don't find anything captivating in it either so I rank it pretty low as Macross shows go because I like some elements of other things like SDF, DYRL, 7 and yes, even Frontier better.
>>14352607
this.
No bait - like idk how anyone can stand Delta. I couldn't even finish first ep. To see female spacenoid rips offs sit on top of VFs while singing is about as bad G-reco wanting to be "muh gundam".
Macross Plus > Macross 7 > Delta
>>14354786
Nice bait. Maybe you should watch more of the show before you talk shit about it you short attention spanned name fagging retard.
