Why is Char's Counterattack so bad, /m/?
Why is your taste so shit, /m/aggot?
>>14311979
It's not. You're just a nigger.
Admittedly, it would be better if it adapted more material from the novels, but a lot of the movie-only material is for the better. A lot of people don't like it, but most of them don't look at it with context. A straight watch through of all of the early-UC anime from OG to CCA and most everything is put into place.
Bad in what regards?
CCA's biggest flaw, besides some new characters, is the part where it feels really disconnected from Zeta & ZZ. Hathaway, Quess, Chan as Amuro's new girl, those are about the only other things I could see someone complaining about. Story development is pretty barebones, but welcome to animu movies.
Oh boy here we go
>>14311979
It's an adaption of a book, and it only adapts half the book. They just throw you into this situation without explaining anything.
Should have been two movies.
If it was up to me, in 1999, I would have remade MSG with new animation. It would have been split up like this:
>26 episode series
>"Encounters in Space" remake
>new movie set between encounters and CCA
>CCA: new edition. (a little longer, new scenes, etc)
>>14311979
It's not bad.
In my opinion it should have been an OVA with better connection with previous parts, better development of all the characters, better explanation of character's actions (so even an average /m/ poster could understand everything).
>>14312043
> A lot of people don't like it, but most of them don't look at it with context.
Or else they did, and just didn't like it regardless. Which is perfectly possible too, despite your assertion and perception of the film.
>>14312178
That accounts for why "most of them don't look at it with context" is there, instead of "none of them looked at it with context."
>>14313019
Except both are assumptions because you don't like that people dislike it.
>>14311979
It only excels in the area of its soundtrack. Everything else is a disaster. It doesn't look great, the action is extremely dull, the plot is just all fucked up. It gives me the feeling that they rushed the hell out of it.
>>14313142
>Everything else is a disaster.
How could you not like Sazabi and/or Nu Gundam?
>the action is extremely dull
Nu Gundam literally rips out Sazabi's throat
>>14313058
>most of them don't look at it with context
It's not an assumption. It's an informed opinion based on many statements you can read on both Japanese and western forums and hear in real life. Tomino's writing is kind of hard to understand and many people have a lot of misconceptions about the movie and the series that precede it. This is not an assumption . It's an observation.
Of course, I don't claim I understand everything either. And I don't claim that even if you understand everything you should like the movie. And then a lot of the people that like it don't necessarily understand it that well.
It's just that putting everything together sort of requires an effort and I can see why some people don't think it's worth it.
>>14313152
>How could you not like Sazabi and/or Nu Gundam?
Designs are entirely irrelevant.
>Nu Gundam literally rips out Sazabi's throat
Wow! Was that after the first time they flew after each other while firing their ranged weapons and funnels and missing, or the second?
>>14313159
>Designs are entirely irrelevant.
>Just said everything else is a disaster
I'm not the other guy but come on anon.
>>14313168
>"The soundtrack of this movie was great, but everything else, not so much"
>"How could you not like the backdrops? Come on! Bugged critic mechanics!"
It doesn't matter if the designs are good or not. It doesn't affect the actual movie.
>>14313159
>Wow! Was that after the first time they flew after each other while firing their ranged weapons and funnels and missing, or the second?
Disregarding sarcasm it was after their funnels traded with each other as well as being after the whole "Amuro boobytraps Axis" sequence
>>14313186
Yeah I was just being a sarcastic cunt, but thank you anyways. I'll keep it in mind when I rewatch CCA.
>>14313180
>It doesn't matter if the designs are good or not. It doesn't affect the actual movie.
Yet somehow /m/ still bitches about bad designs in other shows/media no matter what.
>>14313186
>"Amuro boobytraps Axis"
I still don't know why in the fuck Char didn't just blow up Nu Gundam when Amuro got out. Or why Amuro didn't blow up the Sazabi before Char could get back in.
>>14313197
> Different people like (and dislike) different things in the same shows
Holy shit! What a stunning revelation.
>>14313207
That's not what I said at all you sarcastic fucknugget. I was complaining that /m/ always finds a reason to bitch about ANYTHING.
>>14313213
The statement is still true though, because again, different people will take different things from any given media.
>>14312102
>>14312043
>>14311979
>>14312165
>>14312177
>>14313142
>>14313152
>>14313158
>>14313159
>>14313168
>>14313180
>>14313186
>>14313192
>>14313204
>>14313218
Do you guys think we'll fall for the same copypasta like holy shit
![[EG]Zeta_Gundam_15_BD[3DBE7E6A].mkv_snapshot_07.00_[2016.05.17_22.33.44].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/68QJNVe.jpg "[EG]Zeta_Gundam_15_BD[3DBE7E6A].mkv_snapshot_07.00_[2016.05.17_22.33.44].jpg")
>>14311979
>>14313225
>>14311979
>Why is Char's Counterattack so bad, /m/?
Shitty writing.
>>14313158
So what you're saying is that you think your limited experience defines reality and that everyone's experience mirrors yours? Okay then.
The most I'd be willing to say is that some don't consider it in context, since some is a vague word that can mean many or few, and your experience is definitely true of at least some people, but I can't say I'd ever be comfortable saying it was a majority thing since we're only looking to an small subset of people and the majority are silent in most matters from my experience.
Tomino is one of the worst writers in the industry, but /m/ defends him because he's good at worldbuilding.
>>14311979
Because CCA is the end of a chain of events that for some reason we never got to see and unless Bandai runs out of money we'll never see it.
Absolutely awful ending for Char and Amuro
>>14313360
>Tomino is one of the worst writers in the industry
This
>>14313360
>>14313383
Nice try Okada, I'm still not praising IBO
>>14313293
It's an objectively good movie in or out of context.
It's just not very accessible. This silent majority you are speaking of is probably silent because they don't really care that much about it.
While the movie is generally well regarded as an addition to UC it's not a secret that the usual reaction to it is mild confusion and lukewarm indifference. And for most people this means "all right".
The people that actually bother to hate it are mostly butt-blasted fanboys that were deceived
in their expectations or something in that line. I mean, why else would you even care about some cartoon this much?
Well, at least that is my "limited experience".
If yours differs I would like to know what it is and what it is based on. I am genuinely curious.
I'm not trying to start a fight.
>>14313368
We had two whole fucking shows. Why didn't they have Z or ZZ show those events?
Who cares about fucking Kamille or Judeau?
>>14313433
I don't think you know what objective means if you think a movie can be objectively good. Like, yea, it's production values can be good, but so what? People can still dislike what it does, because that animation is still subjective at the end of the day.
>>14313383
>>14313360
Forgive them Lord Tomino, they are drowned in darkness, and haven't seen the light.
Char's Counterattack?
More like Char's Character Assassination.
>>14313444
CCA was supposed to be the second half of ZZ, even Char shows up in the opening, but then the movie got green lighted.
>>14313496
So the girl in CCA would have been Judeau in ZZ?
>>14313454
Not that anon, but "objectively good" is usually just a way of saying "objectively x, y and z". Such as, "the animation is objectively fluid," or, "the story is objectively detailed," or, "the action is objectively unique." Good and bad are overall not so much subjective as liking or disliking something are.
Also, I'd like to know why you dislike CCA as well or at least why you seem to consider it bad.
>>14313454
I don't think that anyone would argue that a movie that is well-written, thought-out ,well-paced, has a well-balanced cast, attention to detail,etc.,that uses all of these things to effectively convey it's message and obviously had some effort put into it is not objectively at least above average, at least "all right".
Well, many people would deny most of these points if not all and some of them more than others. But I'm completely convinced that they exist because I've seen them.
Of course, you could still argue about their extent and if they manage to overshadow the movie's many flaws. Different people put different weight on different things and that's why their opinions vary but everyone should be able to acknowledge that these strengths and flaws do in actual fact exist.
Still, there are many people that try to pass the best parts of the movie as it's worst. That's ignorance and it's not excusable.
>>14313444
Me? Both Kamille and Judua are a million times more likeable and enjoyable to watch than Amuro. Also couldn't have cared less about his and Char's ancient rivalry. Honestly would've been cool with some new hotshot coming along and stomping Char's shit.
>>14313587
kys pleb
>kys pleb
I don't get it.
>>14313529
I don't believe I gave an opinion on CCA, only objected to the idea the majority didn't consider it in context before deciding. I don't anything CCA as an production really. It's just a movie. I could nitpick some stuff regarding it, but nitpicks is all they'd be. I don't like or dislike the movie itself, I dislike it's existence, because I prefer what I've read of Zeta: Part II and find it to be more fitting as a UC work and as a way to put a cap on Char as a character. It doesn't put a cap on Amuro to my knowledge, but then I think Zeta already put a fitting cap on him and no more was needed, so I don't mind that. I don't like that Char's Counterattack felt the need to resolve their rivalry, because I didn't find their rivalry to be all that central to 0079 in the first place and don't believe it needed to be resolved, because 0079 already did it with Zeta moving beyond it and advancing their characters in a way that was interesting. Char's Counterattack just feels like retreading the groundwork of 0079 without really adding anything.
>>14313856
It didn't resolve their rivalry as much as it resolved Char's character. Throughout the entire series, he was a seemingly self-righteous, immature person, but after he went on a revenge fest, he began to try and do right for the spacenoids but trusted them to take care of themselves. That's why he joined the AEUG. It's because he became impatient that he decided to take over Zeon and force everyone into space because muh souls weighed down by gravity. More importantly, his rivalry with Amuro basically consumed his character. By the end of the series, after Lalah died, Char was so utterly assblasted that he nearly gave up on the revenge scheme he'd been plotting his entire life to have a sword fight with Amuro. They didn't really move past it by the Gryps Conflict, either. Each of them continued to blame each other for Lalah's death and both had pretty big hangups with space. Even throughout Zeta, the only real reason he looks all that reasonable and composed is because he's mentoring fucking Kamille of all people. Amuro ulimately got over his hangups though and pretty much stopped caring about Char outside of the danger he posed. At the same time, as Char is a humongous manchild, he decided to drop an asteroid on earth and leak tech to the enemy more or less just to get Amuro's attention and have a muh honorable duel only to get completely wrecked while Amuro spends half the fight doing something totally different. Then Char died.
Kamille shoulld have come back and piloted the RE-GZ instead of Chein fucking it up
>>14311979
>Why is Char's Counterattack so bad, /m/?
>>14313922
They still blamed each other, but they had other stuff in their lives that they had to deal with and could be around each other without it consuming them because that other shit was important too. Which is a good step in moving past it. And which I found more interesting than them dueling again.
>>14313496
Doesn't explain why you get no build up for CCA at all in ZZ. Hamarn Showed up in Zeta got he backstory sorted.
>>14313527
There would have been no girl because Zeta Part II has a much, much different story to Char's Counterattack and Char wasn't even going to be a villain in it, but an anti-hero at most, and would end up being the one who killed Haman. There's no direct Quess analogue, or analogue to anything in CCA really.
>>14314011
That's right. The whole thing with CCA is that after Z and ZZ, he was totally disillusioned and decided the only way he was ever going to accomplish anything was exterminate all life on Earth. For some reason. As an extension of that, his obsession with Amuro was revived. I wouldn't really even call what that led to much of a duel, though. For the most part, Char just chased Amuro around while he blew shit up and then immediately got the Sazabi wrecked.
>>14313961
Kamille doesn't get any love.
Amuro gets limelight in Kamille's series, a movie, manga/novel sidestories, referenced in 0080 and Unicorn.
Judau gets to be a badass oldman and have adventures far into the future.
Kamille got... a brief mention in a non-canon manga.
>>14314052
Okay. I didn't find it as interesting as what I've read of Zeta Part II regardless. CCA didn't do that. It's an okay movie, but it didn't do anything for me since I just didn't find anything interesting in it.
>>14314054
That manga is as non-canon as old man Judau.
>>14314086
What all happened in Zeta Part II? Based on what I've read, it feels like he would've done the same thing as he did in CCA except with less context from 0079. Getting replaced by Glemy didn't detract much. Again, the whole point is that Char doesn't develop. For 12 years he tried to murder an entire family who generally had nothing to do with his father's death. He didn't even seem to understand himself, such as responding to the TV after Garma's death saying, "Nah, it's because he's a spoiled rich kid," or something like that. With that in mind, it's not hard to believe that he would still hold a grudge over Amuro after 13 years, dying without getting anything he wanted, not even an honest duel.
>>14314159
>"Nah, it's because he's a spoiled rich kid,
Which makes zero sense since even in 0079 he himself is a spoiled rich kid.
![[OZC]Mobile Suit Gundam F91 [2011 Release].mkv_snapshot_00.07.08_[2015.03.27_18.55.02].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/OyMiWBe.jpg "[OZC]Mobile Suit Gundam F91 [2011 Release].mkv_snapshot_00.07.08_[2015.03.27_18.55.02].jpg")
Good thing F91 came along and redeemed the Franchise.
>>14314186
woah it's like Char's a hypocrite and an asshole or something
>>14314159
http://pastebin.com/0SkxGTUt
I find Judau and Roux's situation more interesting there than what was in ZZ or CCA, I find the storys resolution with Judau inspiring people to finally give up Earth more interesting than CCA, because it finally gives some resolution to early to mid UC and moves the setting firmly beyond the conflicts in those shows since those conflicts would be near impossible in the future given what it does and I find Char's role as a tutor/rival to Judau interesting. I like the fact that he's just Char and would presumably have to deal with finding out who he is as part of it, along with helping resolve that period of UC and it's conflicts. I like that he's stripped of Amuro and other disguises, since Char is basically who he is at that point anyways, having played him for so long.
>>14314054
Kamille got a peaceful life with best girl.
>>14311979
Simple. Tomino can't do short and contained.
>B-but Ideon Be Invoked
Sequel to the TV series and had that to play off on.
He needs space to play around unfortunately too much time and he waffles a bit. 30 to 40 episodes is probably his sweet spot. CCA was trying to smash too much stuff together in too short a time.
>>14311979
Basically this:
>>14312102
It feels like 0079's extra limb. Characters from Zeta and ZZ are absent entirely and the events only get a passing reference. (Teetons) The shows had zero bearing on the events of CCA. You could honestly just go straight from 0079 to CCA and you will not have missed any context.
>>14311979
Because you have bad taste.
>>14315506
CCA straight up feels like it was written for people whose last encounter with Gundam was seeing Encounters in Space half a decade before, probably smart business but sure didnt' do the plot favors.
>>14315506
>>14315547
Zeta and ZZ were mistakes that CCA corrected.
>>14314209
But F91 was worse than CCA, thanks to Sunrise.
>Zeta happens and ZZ is green lit
>ZZ happens and Tomino intends to wrap up Char's arc.
>CCA is green lit which makes ZZ completely pointless now
>Tomino has to create an expy Char to end ZZ and every character fucks off
>CCA happens
>Zeta movies are green lit and Tomino retcons ZZ
>>14315633
ZZ was greenlit at the same time as Zeta. They were planned to be two halves of a whole. We've no idea when CCA was greenlit, though people tend to think it was during Zeta at some point.
CCA would have 1000% better if they had used the remaining cast from Z and ZZ.
>>14315633
>>ZZ happens and Tomino intends to wrap up Char's arc.
The Char dickriding is the problem with early UC in general. He wasn't an interesting or compelling character in 0079 and CCA sure didn't help. Basing a franchise around "Starscream" was not a good idea.
>>14315670
so what you're saying is that Char is basically the Lightning of UC Gundam
>>14313204
For Char, muh honor, muh Newtype duel. Remember that a few minutes later, he tells Amuro that he ordered Anaheim to leak the psychoframe data to Londo Bell.
For Amuro, probably didn't have enough time after getting back into the Nu. Did the Nu lose some weapons prior to that scene?
>>14315670
>>14315685
I wouldn't say Char is like Starscream, the latter is driven by a lust for power, the former is driven by a lust for revenge. Otherwise he would have done a power play to control Axis Zeon and the AEUG instead of just playing the normal officer.
Rewatching CCA right now, fuck all y'all
>>14314209
F91 was real trash.
It could have been pretty good as a series, and you can see the potential, but it doesn't work as a movie at all.
The instant skip from "Hi I'm new on this ship" to "We're best friends now and talk like we've known each other forever" was too jarring.
because all gundam is bad and the only reason people here try to salvage any value out of it is to justify their model toys
YOU BELONG TO ME
>>14318567
SAYONARA IENAKUTE
>>14318573
ITSUMADE MO DAKISHIMETA KATTA
>>14318610
I BELONG TO YOU
>>14319033
WEEBS BELONG TO ME
>>14313360
I'm starting to feel like I agree. I like Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta Gundam a lot, but they aren't really well written. Their quality is somewhat of a happy accident, I suppose. One that didn't repeat for any of his other shows.
>>14313360
He's a mixed bag for me. I like some of his shows, but some are real stinkers.
Tomino spent all his movie talent on Be Invoked.
