Battle of Loum
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You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
I have to praise this guy's work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az9Z_5QQQso
It's nice to have a well documented account of Loum in english, and by all accounts the production values are not bad in the slightest. The narration can be slightly dull at times, but the information itself is quite interesting. Kudos the the creator, I would not mind seeing more battles being covered in detail, like Jaburo or the final two attacks on Zeon at Solomon and A.Boa.Qu
>>14274804
>incoherent at start
>"Juh-buro"
Guy needs to do some vocal training.
Nice vid, thanks for sharing.
Where did they reveal this level of information about the battle? I've read the Gundam novels, but don't recall how much detail they went into as far as number of ships deployed in battle, casualties, the movements of the different divisions, etc.
Would love to see something done explaining how Operation British went down, as well as all the other major battles as well.
>>14274988
According to his own answer in the comments:
> A combination of multiple sources: Gundam Entertainment Bible, Gihren's Greed, various novels, watching MSG over and over, with a touch of the Gundam Wiki/MAHQ. There's a bit of variation between each source, so intuitive judgment is also required.
>>14274660
OP, stop shilling your shit.
>Has the Zeon side avatar is someone in a Titans uniform
Disgusting
>>14275198
Luckily Loum is one of the only battles in Gundam to not get to littered with Side Story's, allowing for the battles numbers to remain mostly consistent with accounts from sources from years back. Jaburo and Odessa both have had a bit of Side Story interference, making trying to get an accurate count much more tedious. Not to mention Solomon and especially A.Boa.Qu, which are both somewhat outdated in terms of how many units were accounted for with other materials.
>>14275204
>>Has the Zeon side avatar is someone in a Titans uniform
>literally feddies on both sides
>>14275198
>Cites every possible secondary tertiary source under the sun
>Doesn't even touch upon the one primary source that actually showed some of the battle, MS IGLOO
>Actually ignores what MS IGLOO says about the battle to boot.
Glad to know anything this guy creates is going to be unfounded garbage.
>>14275261
>trusting a low budget video they originally made to play at a cafe and sell at gift shops just because it's convenient
>>14275266
>I don't like how it was created so it doesn't count
Ha, until something else comes out saying otherwise, MS IGLOO is canon basis for Loum.Before you try and turn it around, I'm extremely consistent in my positions and if new data is put forward, I adjust accordingly to take it into account
>>14275261
any bets on whether black knight is gonna reject the origin's version of loum when it comes out?
>>14275284
you only advocate that position because of your crackpot theory
your theory still ain't canon unless it's actually stated somewhere, good luck convincing people with only assumptions and conjecture
>>14275306
>Crackpot theory
>Based off what Sunrise said
Ha
Also using that source, all the sources this lout used for his video aren't considered canon. Minus the bits from MSG.
>>14274660
This is much more effort than I would have expected it.
Subbed.
>>14275327
your theory is about what happens OFFSCREEN of MS igloo, how the fuck is that supposed to be canon?
>Also using that source, all the sources this lout used for his video aren't considered canon. Minus the bits from MSG.
no shit that's why no one accepts it
>>14275339
Because it's the best theory to explain how it happened based on the information we have you collective head of knuckle. The events that were shown to occur during MS IGLOO can't be disputed.
>no shit that's why no one accepts it
Glad to see everyone is rejecting this youtube video.
>>14275378
nigger no one is disputing the events of MS igloo, the dispute is with what you think happens offscreen
>>14275396
What's this off screen theory I keep hearing about?
>>14274660
His visuals are nice but needs a better mic and a pop filter.
>>14275417
he says after the zakus route the feddy fleet, all of the fed ships fly to loum to use the colonies as shields and zeon chases them down, willingly shooting through the colonies to finish off the feds, resulting in the destruction of several hundred colonies
>>14275427
Didn't the Feds go there and make it a battle in the first place because Zeon was headed there and intending to attack the Colonies like they had in other Sides during the One Week War? Why would they not attack the Colonies after beating the Feds if their objective was to attack the Colonies in the first place?
>>14275396
Now, now, no reason to resort to racial slurs to make your point.
>>14275417
>>14275440
Using MS IGLOO as a basis for what happened at Loum. Zeon's objective wasn't another colony drop, but to lure the Federation Fleets that were hiding at Luna II into a decisive battle. The Colony Drop operation for Loum was false Intel leaked to the Federation. The Federation Fleet is shown going by the colonies on their way to set up a defensive line against the Zeon fleet to show that the way they took, took them through the Loum.
After the Federation forces were being routed and a general retreat was called, they Federation Fleet went the way they came, and used the colonies as shields to cover their escape. Zeon still pursued and the colonies were destroyed in the crossfire.
This has validity because Zeon's original target at the Battle of Loum, wasn't the colonies, and the Federation fleet's path of travel from Luna II to the battle took them directly through Side 5. As for the counter argument that Zeon destroyed Side 5 after the battle was over. If that were the case, they would have wiped it out along with Side 1, 2 and 4 during the One Week Battle.
>>14275443
That's not a counter argument, because they also didn't attack Side 6 during the One Week Battle and Side 6 didn't declare neutrality till after it. They may not have attacked them for the simple reason that they didn't have the time, resources or need to attack them during the first week but did in the second.
>>14275451
But it is, Side 6 was an independent nation that wasn't affiliated with either the Federation or Side 3. Why would they attack the one other Side that declared independence from the Federation? That would have been a waste of resources. Side 5 on the other hand was still under Federation control.
>>14275443
>As for the counter argument that Zeon destroyed Side 5 after the battle was over. If that were the case, they would have wiped it out along with Side 1, 2 and 4 during the One Week Battle.
There was constant fighting throughout the One Week War, perhaps the Zeon fleet just wasn't large enough to comfortably stretch to allow another detachment to attack side 5 without being too small or thin. Or maybe they just decided that carrying out operation British was a larger priority than taking out side 5 at the time.
>>14275451
Side 6 declared neutrality after the war started, but were already leaning toward Zeon because it was Zeon that helped Side 6 secure independence in UC0077. Zeon doesn't have a reason to attack side 6 in the beginning of the war.
>>14275455
Because Side 6 were still trading with the Federation, and since they were with the Federation, they were against Zeon. Which is apparently all the incentive they needed to attack the other Sides.
>>14275465
>since they were with the Federation
No they're not, they're independent.
>>14275470
I know, but they were officially still trading with and allied to the Federation despite their independence. Which Black_Knight has used before as cause for Zeon attacking Sides 1, 2 and 4. They were still trading with and talking with the Federation, therefor they were allies and therefor they were viable targets according to that logic.
That said, the central point that they may not have attacked them due to time, resources or need still stands and them not attacking during the One Week Battle doesn't dispute that they may not have wanted to or been able to for various reasons.
>>14275465
>>14275484
Side 6 was independent and was also trading with Side 3. You seem to think in absolutes that just because Side 6 still had dealings with the Federation, they were their enemies of Side 3 which is absurd. The only reason the other Sides were attacked was because they were under Federation control. That's the major difference you're refusing to see.
>>14275457
A bunch of maybes, but based on what we know. Zeon committed a blitzkrieg against the Federation and since element of surprise is a major factor the more damage you can do, the better. I'd have to find the numbers again, but based on the fact you only need one mobile suit squad to take out a colony (Destroy the garrison from the outside in and then gas it.) The only issues would be eliminating any local Feddie presences.
>>14275488
Which is funny since I'm only using your logic and pattern of debate, which is in effect calling your own arguments absolutism.
Also, your own reason for why the Feds must have used the Colonies as shields is a bunch of maybes, so you shouldn't be calling someone else's idea a bunch of maybe and less than because of it.
>>14275484
>I know, but they were officially still trading with and allied to the Federation despite their independence.
Side 6 was also speaking and trading with Zeon, were they not? Economic trade with the EFF doesn't constitute being military allies. The Jupiter Energy Fleet trades with both Zeon and EF, for example. Side 6 allowed both Zeon and EFF ships to dock at their colonies, they were in no way officially allied with the Federation.
>Which Black_Knight has used before as cause for Zeon attacking Sides 1, 2 and 4.
Oh no, that's just not true. Every side except for 3 and 6 are under Federation rule. Sides 1, 2, and 4 are Federation territory and were in no way independent.
>That said, the central point that they may not have attacked them due to time, resources or need still stands and them not attacking during the One Week Battle doesn't dispute that they may not have wanted to or been able to for various reasons.
True, but Zeon never attacked Side 6 at any time, even after the EFSF fleet was decimated and Zeon still had a space fleet while the front lines moved to Earth.
Just stop fucking replying to BlackKnight.
You know he's not going to change his mind so just stop talking to him.
>>14275502
But your logic is based off flawed methodology, and cherry picking. mine isn't.
Also if Zeon was going to destroy Side 6, why would they defend them from Federation aggression just a few years earlier after Side 6 declared independence?
>>14274660
Thanks for sharing, I liked it. It really shows that this guy has a passion for the topic.
>>14275524
I dunno, why would they declare they're fighting for Spacenoid independence and then attack a load of those same Spacenoids?
Also, your arguments aren't full of cherry picking and flawed methodology, thanks for a laugh. Your argument that the Feds must have used the Colonies as shields and that Zeon is in no way responsible for destroying them because of it since the came via the Sides and were destroyed after they retreated has several assumptions and flaws alone.
>>14275541
Because they aren't spacenoids per say since they sided with the Federation. It would be like saying Patriots were bad for attacking loyalists even though they wanted independence for the colonies. So by attacking loyalists, the patriots were attacking the colonists they were trying to free.
As for saying my information is flaws, it's a lot more than whatever you have presented. The direct they come from makes up a big factor in what way they are going back. Do you think the Fleet is going to take a roundabout way, or not try anything to delay or slow down the pursuing Zeon fleet?
>>14275556
They don't direct come from it though, because it's never shown or stated. It's just your assumption that that's the most probable and thus definite outcome. Which isn't the same. Also, when Zeon attacked and blew up every colony despite the fact all of them can't have had Federation bases on them then yea, it is a case of them attacking Spacenoids. They may have had to take out ones with Federation bases and soldiers on them (emphasis, may), but they certainly didn't have to attack and destroy civilian only ones.
>>14275556
>Because they aren't spacenoids per say since they sided with the Federation.
They never had any say in the matter, the Federation-governed sides never had the choice. Independence isn't what makes them spacenoids, it's where they live.
>>14275577
Yes they did, if you don't think if they left them alone and then went to fight the Federation elsewhere. That the Federation wouldn't immediately move in and build bases in those civilian colonies. Which they would, Zeon would have to do the whole process over again, except with a lot more Resistance.
>>14275606
If that's the case, how did the people of Side 3 and Side 6 declare Independence? They clearly had the means if they wanted to. They just wanted to stay with the Federationl
>>14274660
he looks like a nigger
>>14275617
The Federation didn't have bases there though. Just because they might if they left them alone doesn't mean they should destroy all of them just in case and scorch the Earth to prevent a maybe.
Also, the people of those sides didn't declare themselves Federation allied because an independent militia stopped them in both cases. Zeon had to step in and help Side 6 secede specifically because of this. And they were so toxic a militia Side 6 still didn't want to associate with them. They didn't have the means to fight Zeon, therefor they didn't have the means to do so if they wanted.
>>14275617
What? That's kind of silly, coming from you.
The Federation didn't have much of a presence at Side 3 in 0058, it seems. No military or fleet forces there. Side 6 had Zeon forces nearby to support their independence declaration which the Federation wasn't prepared to fight with.
Individuals wanting spacenoid independence would have traveled to side 3 already. Those staying behind trying to start up local independence movements either had no luck because the remaining colonists aren't interested, the governments aren't interested or are working against it, or the Federation probably tightened control to prevent it from happening.
Side 6's situation seems to be a bit weird, their declaration was quick and had strong support, sounds like the local government there were already advocating independence and weren't tightly controlled by the EF to begin with.
>>14275663
I don't recall Side 6 ever having a militia. In 0080, Federation forces just happened to be "nearby" to have skirmishes with Zeon inside Side 6 airspace.
>>14275670
They may not have, I've no idea. The militia that supported Riah's anti-Federation movement and helped them gain independence was Zeon, not their own one. Zeon may have helped a home-grown one fight a home-grown pro-Federation one, but Zeon helped regardless.
>>14274660
Ignoring the shit posting, I liked this video and the cool stumpy looking 3D models of Mobile Suits and Spaceships.
That dude really needs a better microphone though.
>>14275690
He is only starting out by the looks of things, with only a few videos under his belt and less than a thousand (a lot less) subscribers - so he may just be using cheap equipment as a starting thing while he gets used to it.
the Federation only sent 60 SABERFISH FIGHTERS?? even of Zeon had not develop MS they had around 400 Gattle space fighters
what the hell was the federation doing
>>14275670
Side 6 does have a militia. They're the poor saps trying to face the Kaempfer in these things until they call in the Grey Phantom for help.
>>14275696
Mmm, that Izubuchi charm. Wouldn't look out of place in Patlabor.
Wait, those fucking things had beam sabres? I don't remember them being armed at all.
I think Battle of Loum was initially documented in Entertainment Bible, but personally my first visual encounter was via G Generation and G Generation Zero back when they came out, where I saw clips of Zakus delivering point blank shots at the bridges of Federation ships.
G Generation propelled the greater lore of UC to me, introduced me to non-animated scenarios and tons of MSV.
I thank G Generation for my mecha hobby.
>>14275663
>>14275667
>>14275670
>>14275696
if Zeon left those colonies alone, you'd be a damn fool to think the moment the Federation had a chance, they wouldn't move in to build bases in the colonies that were still around. Do you have any proof of open rebellions against the Federation occurring at any Sides other than 3 and 6? They clearly had a presence at Side 3, including a military since you need to keep civil order, it's just not the overwhelming force we see always on display because they didn't start a massive military build up. But to think the Federation didn't have any sort of presences in the Sides is just a flight of fancy. Again, do you have any evidence to back up that conjecture other than 'they didn't declare themselves independent, so their revolutions must have failed'? The reason why you see Side 6 as being weird is because they were the only ones to actually declare themselves independent, the Federation tried to subdue that, but Side 3 intervened which then left the Federation no choice in the matter. Rewatch the 4th episode, you see them use them using missile launchers mounted on trucks, helicopters and the rh-35 >>14275696. I have a feeling even Type-88 tanks would give those forces a run for their money. Ha, never even made the connection with zubuchi. Nice one.
>>14278768
I'm not saying they wouldn't build bases on some of those Colonies, but that the fact they would build on a small portion of those Colonies and eventually all of them if they destroyed them all bit by bit isn't reason to destroy them all and kill billions right at the start to prevent them doing so in the future when there's nothing there currently.
>>14278788
If your main goal is to wipe out something that is threatening you and make sure they can't return. You make sure to remove any places they can take root.
It was heavy handed, but was necessary so they didn't have to fight unnecessary battles in the future.
>>14278812
If you want to support and defend that then more power to you. It's a subjective goal though, and you won't find many who echo that support. Which they're not required to, because Gihren's goals are subjective and any plans he formulates are subjective based on fulfilling those needs.
The plan definitely does fulfill those goals, but people are arguing those goals in reality, and thus any plans based on them.
>>14278847
That would be strongly dependant on what your definition of reality is, are you talking about the reality gundam takes place in, or the one we live in.
>>14278943
Not really. It's just based on people not supporting Gihren's goals here in general. They might like his character, but that is separate from supporting his goals.
