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>claims he's never betrayed anyone in his life
>The Origin III proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he betrayed his friend Char Aznoble, whose family was even kind enough to take him and his sister in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_2RFJ7f1gw
Moral of the story: Don't associate with Zeon Deikun or his son ever.
Anon you didn't need Origin to confirm that Char's a liar.
>>14213734
But Char wasn't a liar! Char was an honest young man from Texas Colony! Casval's the liar!
>>14213732
Let's be straight here
Origin is a completely romanticized version of the show that's nothing alike. The cast even have crossed paths with Char in the past is an example of the different tone of Origin
>>14213732
Origin and Thunderbolt aren't in the same main UC continuity. They're AU offshoots.
i have never betrayed....oh wait garma!
>>14213732
Moral of the story: The Titans were right. Any and all spacenoids are duplicitous scum who aren't even loyal to each other.
>>14213732
I liked Char when he was just in 0079 when all we knew about him was that he had his own personal vendetta to take care of. His motives were simple back then.
Every other work after that tries to paint him as righteous and noble figure just ends up making him look like a delusional psycho and possible pedophile.
Char is really just a victim of bad writing.
>>14213882
>Every other work after that tries to paint him as righteous and noble figure just ends up making him look like a delusional psycho and possible pedophile.
That was sort of the point, at least in Zeta through Char's Counterattack. Origin and Unicorn shat him up, but those never happened, so whatever.
He was supposed to be a glorified sociopath who regularly sabotages everything around him for petty reasons while putting up a strong front. This asshole spent 13 years pursuing and arguing with a teenager over which of them made a better surrogate son to a dead Indian hooker, then tried to drop an asteroid on Earth and wipe out humanity just to get his attention.
He was supposed to be seen as pitifully shallow, at least from our perspective, and that extends all throughout CCA from how he manipulates all of Zeon just to have an honoruburu duel to how he got curbstomped by the Nu, ejected his cockpit just like his idol the honoroburu samurai, then promptly got captured by Amuro as he more or less helplessly spergs out in the cockpit.
>>14213732
He betrayed Garma Zabi if we are not counting Origin.
>>14213916
>This asshole spent 13 years pursuing and arguing with a teenager over which of them made a better surrogate son to a dead Indian hooker
>>14213732
It's showing either that A. He doesn't think he's betrayed anyone because he was never really on their side or that B. That he's a liar.
Both of which are valid and neither rely on the Origin version which came out literally decades later.
Are you all children or something? This isn't even Tominospeak.
Char is only loyal to himself. That's it. If his priorities change such that he needs to abandon Zeon, Axis, or the AEUG; then he will without even thinking twice.
>>14213732
The Casval Deikun from the Origin and the Casval Deikun from 0079 are not the same person.
>hating on the origin just because it new and you havent even read the manga
>>>/a/
I for one consider the Origin Manga to be the superior 0079 experience. Anyone that disagrees simply hasnt read it. There are no other possibilites
>>14213916
>He was supposed to be seen as pitifully shallow
I don't think that that's how the writers intended to portray the character. I'm pretty sure that they intended that the audience sympathize with Char. The audience is supposed to see him as honorable and even virtuous at the superficial level. The problem is that because of the lazy writing, if the audience were to analyze his actions Char comes off to be a self-rationalizing genocidal egomaniac.
>>14214518
I think that the authors intended for you to be able to interpret it however you want.
And shit, in CCA when Char's going on about Lala Amuro outright tells him he's pathetic.
>>14214549
Hey, they're about to die, then why don't they discuss something personal?
>>14214518
Except that's exactly what they wanted him to be. Scirocco says it best, Char is too emotional to just let things be. He's as genuinely interested in saving the earth by changing humanity as he is in wiping out earthnoids as he is in his rivalry with Amuro. Char is an intensely emotional man whose invested in too many things and it causes him to self destruct.
CCA aside, just look at Zeta. When the Argama crew goes to meet Haman he attacks her because she's set up Mineva as the new Zabi rule of Axis Zeon. He goads Kamille at times and creates tension between them. He has an angry outburst when Dr. Hassan tells him that it's better to wait for humanity to evolve, even though he was setting himself up to have faith in humanity. Or saying stupid shit like "Have you heard of a man named Char Aznable" while trying to keep a secret identity.
Or just look at MSG. His revenge on Garma is purely for emotional satisfaction. Garma didn't even do anything wrong but Char decided having him die was worth the risk of being kicked out of the military.
Char is the perfect model of one of ZZ's biggest themes. He's such a schemer, but in the end all the plotting in the world amounts to nothing because of human nature, the failings of his personality.
He's the ultimate villain. He has a grand vision for how the world ought to be, but he's undermined because of how petty, proud, and childish he can be. If it were just another generic cartoon he'd be the recurring villain who has plans to take over the world but is undermined by his own stupidity and lack of character. But Gundam gives him strong parallels to the protagonists and frames his failings in a very pathetic and a very human, albeit to the extreme, way.
>>14214281
I think elaborating on Char's back story was a tedious mistake. The art is gorgeous, and in some respects it's a little more polished, but I prefer the story of the original series.
>>14214573
Because Chars hangup is absolutely retarded. Amuro didn't go out of his way to kill her, it was an act of war. Char's responsible for putting Lala in that situation in the first place anyway. Literally everything is Chars fault but he tries to twist it around to "I dindu nuffin it was amuro"
>>14214609
Lalah rammed into Char's Gelgoog in order to save him from eating Amuro's beam saber. Her death was her own fault; Amuro was not aiming for her at all when he started charging with the beam saber.
>>14214619
Even better.
Amuro did nothing wrong.
>>14214597
Yeah, I like most of Origin but Char didn't gained much as a character with his new backstory.
The fact that there was a guy identical to him is so convenient it ends up feeling like just a dumb plot device and little more.
Char is shit and not the natural born leader people make him out to be. Terrible leader and pilot in every regard. His glory days versus battleships were long over even by Zeta. Being 3x as fast in the past didn't matter in the new present where everybody was fucking fast and trained and with actual MS combat under their belts. As a squad leader in the OYW he was pretty much Jerid. Returns alive without accomplishing shit and losing team members. In Zeta he made a speech which went nowhere and fucked up negoiations with Axis. Then he ran away to sulk after getting curbstomped only to rise up to lead Neo-Neo Zeon where he again massively failed in both his roles. Char a shit.
>>14214631
this. I like a number of things Origin fixed but that plot device is the worst ass-pull in the entire story.
>>14214631
I found it to be too hokey as well. Wouldn't it make more sense that, considering the family he was born into, he would have enough resources and connections from daddy Deikun to forge a new identity, then insert himself into a Zeon academy?
Then again, Origin seems to be hell-bent on making most of the people in Zeon be even more evil than they were in the series. "Indirectly murdered a dude that looks just like me so I can steal his identity" fits that.
>>14214631
Honestly, the long flashback did more to flesh out Ramba Ral, Hamon, Sayla, and the other Zabis than it did Char.
Though I guess it did establish that Char had one fucked up childhood.
>>14213787
>>14214270
That makes no sense. It is in the same UC timeline as the other anime unless stated otherwise. The manga can be other story.
I bet if you people had read the Unicorn light novels before the anime you'd be caliming it's alternate UC as well. It's the exact same situation.
>>14214582
>ZZ
>themes
Pick half.
>>14213732
A thief would never admit that he's a thief
>>14214679
Not him but as far as I'm concerned Unicorn was and still is AUC.
>>14213732
maybe in some deep twisted way char truly believes he's never betrayed anyone. he thinks everyone he's fucked had it coming perhaps?
>>14214876
He doesn't feel morally obligated to anyone.Why is so hard to grasp?
There are some twisted things about Char but that's not one of them.
Who did he betray?
Garma?A hypocritical idiot that fancied himself some sort of noble benefactor while the family he was so proud of committed mass murder.
Kycilia?A too-clever-by half bitch.You can't betray someone who never even trusted you.
Haman?What was he supposed to do?Babysit her?It's not like he left her at the altar or something.
Zeon?A bunch of corrupt degenerates desperately grasping for power?I think he explicitly stated he wasn't looking for a career at the circus.
I'm not claiming that he's not a turbo asshole either.Just that he is technically right.From a certain point of view.Is it impossible to understand?
Am I the one who's autistic or is it you guys?I'm actually starting to get worried.
>>14214983
He still betrayed them. Whether or not his betrayl of Garma was immoral is irrelevant. He still betrayed Garma. From Chars perspective it's not really a betrayl anyway, since he was never truly on his side.
>>14214983
But what aboutThe real Char?
Origin Char and tv series Char are two different characters. Origin Char makes the tv version look like a well balanced and stable man.
>>14214679
>It is in the same UC timeline as the other anime unless stated otherwise.
Says who and for what reason. Why is it so hard to just see it as an adaptation of the manga?
>>14215151
>Origin Char makes the tv version look like a well balanced and stable man.
That's because the poor guy inherited all of Deikun's Crazy.
>>14214236
Quoted for basic reading comprehension.
>>14214679
>I bet if you people had read the Unicorn light novels before the anime you'd be caliming it's alternate UC as well.
The Unicorn light novels ARE technically an AU now. The animated version(s) is the one that's "canon."
>>14215191
Zeon did nothing wrong. The colony drop was Deikun's will
>>14213851
Based Titans didn't go far enough
>>14214597
It was worth it for the Ramba Ral stuff.
>>14214653
>I found it to be too hokey as well.
>hokey
so it's in the spirit of the original 0079 series?
>>14215298
You're confusing canon and official again.
>>14215191
Wasn't that the direct result of Degwin's poisoning though?
>>14215387
More like lack of sleep and an enormous amount of stress.
>>14215387
>>14215413
For all we currently know, it's possibly both or even just that Deikun liked having meth in his coffee.
He's such a bipolar sperg from what we've really seen of him that I don't doubt he was either some sort of obsessive or hyped on some uppers.
>>14214983
>Who did he betray?
He betrayed pretty much everybody you listed. It doesn't matter what his intentions were or how corrupt his allegiants are, a traitor is a traitor. Garma is probably his worst offense because Garma genuinely trusted him as a friend and spacenoids best chance at independence died along with him.
>>14215387
It was Jimba Ral who filled Char's head with the ideas of assassination. No one knows if it was actually true or not
>>14214236
I always took it as "I NEVER... REALLY... BETRAYED ANYONE... NOPE",like, as if he is in complete denial.
I think Zeta shows some genuine change of heart, but there's a big emphasis on his childish inability to accept his wrongdoings and to overcome his impatience and ambition. You get me? CCA is a direct result of these factors. He turned again because he wanted it NOW.
>>14214281
Cool but Origin is not canon to anything but itself. Fact not opinion
>>14215298
Yes. The same seems to be the case for Origin and Thunderbolt's adaptation.
Origin anime in particular is even doing only flashback material and not retelling anything from 0079. That shows Sunrise is at least avoiding creating contradictions with events already told on screen (retcons are another story), Yet people are claiming it doesn't count because of the source material.
>>14215355
And who gets to decide what is or isn't canon?You?
Was this canon/not-canon shitposting as strong when Unicorn came out or it's happening to Origin because more people knew the source material and it's contradictions to previous works beforehand?
Because every new Early UC Gundam has tons of contradictory shit yet I never see you faggots tearing yourselves apart about whether or not it's canon.
>>14217007
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out, that there are contradictions between origin and the classic UC shows, starting with haro. Personally I don't think it really matters what its status is. I enjoy it either way.
>>14217032
There are contradictions and retcons all over UC though. I don't care much either, it's just annoying that any talk about it nowadays gets derailed into fighting over canon status.
>>14213732
Nigga you don't need to drag Origin into this when he fucking backstabbed Garma in 079.
>>14214518
>I don't think that that's how the writers intended to portray the character.
Did you forget the entire sword fight near the end of the original series? Char got so buttmad over Amuro that Amuro had to actually convince him to go kill the final Zabi members instead of continue fighting Amuro.
>>14213732
>needing Origin for proof
>when 0079 has him betraying Garma, and then betraying Kycilia so hard her head comes off
>then he betrays Neo Zeon by leaking plans to the enemy
>then he betrays himself by losing like a little bitch
>>14217222
It was Sayla. And even if Char wouldn't kill Kycilia, her ship could be shot down by EFSF.
>>14217203
Garma's blood betrayed him there.
>>14216147
The assassination in the original series almost certainly happened because in one of the planned plotlines they had to cut to rush the ending, White Base captures Degwin and he confesses to Sayla that he did it.
Origin changes some shit for the worse, especially when it comes to Kycillia Zabi
In the original plot's backstory:
>Sasro is killed with a car bomb by Deikunists to show that the Zabis transition to power over Zeon Deikun was not bloodless and that not all Zeon supporters sided with the Zabis
In Origin
>Kycillia kills Sasro with a car bomb because he slapped her (And Dozle almost dies too despite doing nothing to her) because Kycillia is evil
Original series
>Kycilia shoots Gihren in the head after learning that he had vaporized their father with the colony laser out of disgust
Origin
>Kycillia is so evil she's more evil than space Hitler and shoots him in the head because she wants power for herself
Also turning Dozle and Ramba Ral into cartoony goofballs was dumb.
Also I don't even get what the point of introducing this character was
>>14213732
I wish colony clusters were portrayed as actual clusters.
And why is Sayloli so sexual?
>>14217025
Part of it is that the Origin manga is very directly an alternate retelling of the original series. So when they adapt only part of it things get a little muddled.
>>14217412
I don't think that happened in the novels, which gave Tomino more than enough freedom to reimplement the original ideas, so it seems like he just scrapped the idea altogether after the show's end.
Holy shit Zeon what are you giving your girls? They're way too cute.
>>14217543
>Holy shit Zeon what are you giving your girls?
Early deaths.
>>14217554
Stop the ride. I want to get off this ride. Stop! STOP!
>>14217554
too soon
>>14217554
>>14217569
>>14217575
Death is better than the alternative.
>>14217598
Clearly she is being led away for questioning, anon
>>14217465
While I agree that making Kycillia plain evil is a poor choice, it at least makes her more internally consistent. She unreadably ambiguous in the original series, and not in a good way. Shit, I still think Dozle's the most 'pure' of the Zabi children. If he had lived to see Gihren kill their father it would have been a bloodbath.
>>14217222
What part of this is "pitifully shallow"?
>>14217501
I think they're adapting just the flashbacks precisely to stay in that muddled area. Bandai and Surise probably don't want to either invalidate 0079 or write Origins anime off as alternative UC.
By not retelling anything shown onscreen on previous animated works they can keep the contradictions to a mininum even if they're still plentiful to the scenario and con text as a whole. But that can be said about any new Early UC work.
>>14217614
>>14215332
>It was worth it for the Ramba Ral stuff.
Eh, no. We had all we needed to know about him too.
>>14217598
>>14217614
>>14218867
>They bothered to go out of their way to get a female officer to pat down the female prisoners
>obviously this means they're going to proceed to rape them immediately afterwards, because rape is one thing but cross-sex body searches are a crime against humanity
>>14217531
You're right that doesn't happen in the novels because they just straight out tell you the Zabi, especially Sasro did it.
>>14214582
>identifying underrated post
Underrated post identified.
