So one thing I never understood from 0079 is that throughout the whole series the feddies are shown to have 0 MS' other than the cannon tank and gundam but all of a sudden at juboro and solomon they have hundreds of them. Also why is it shown that the feddies in origins have early guntanks but suddenly theyre so far behind when the one year war breaks out in suit technology
>So one thing I never understood from 0079 is that throughout the whole series the feddies are shown to have 0 MS' other than the cannon tank and gundam but all of a sudden at juboro and solomon they have hundreds of them
When you start building war machines, you don't send them one at a time to be used in battle as soon as one is finished being built, you build batches of them and arm entire groups and deploy them in numbers.
Jaburo isn't just a base, it's also a giant industrial factory zone. They were building and testing GMs, and planning to ship them out later when they were ready.
>Also why is it shown that the feddies in origins have early guntanks but suddenly theyre so far behind when the one year war breaks out in suit technology
The feds didn't put much trust in mobile suit tech because they thought they were gimmicky and that their conventional tanks and planes wouldn't have problems dealing with Zakus. The guntank barely counts as a mobile suit, it's more like a tank with shoulder and elbow joints. Building a mobile suit also means needing legs, balancing technology, articulating fingers, etc. They do some research to sorta keep up (they develop the Guncannon and Gundam) but don't bother to try and produce much until zeon starts pushing their shit in and the feds decide they need mobile suits as well. The Guncannon and Gundam are just testing models and not meant for mass production (as well as being expensive) so they needed to develop a light and cheap machine like the GM that was easy to build.
>>14210273
Because the Origin is just trying to make sense of inconsistencies in the story like what you're posting about.
The Federation doesn't have any mobile suits. Even the early-model Guntanks are technically Mobile Armors. They're so far behind in the military application of construction suit technology that Zeon is able to curbstomp them for months.
The Federation has a bunch after Jaburo and Solomon because they spend the months they're being destroyed developing a mass-production mobile suit that, while not very good, can be produced at factories around the world and in Earth orbit using local materials.
>>14210273
>all of a sudden at juboro and solomon they have hundreds of them
Project V's data didn't go to pasture when it was initially discovered; the Feddies had gotten enough data from this to begin development and production of the GM.
By the time the White Base reached Jaburo, a sizable number of GMs had been built and were rolling off the assembly lines; the only thing they really needed was Amuro's combat data for the sake of the complete rookie pilots and occasional seasoned pilot who would go on to pilot them.
At Solomon this didn't change at all, and with plenty of GMs both already in existence and still being produced there's little to be confused by. You have to remember that the EF, compared to Zeon, had a colossal base of resources and manpower to draw from, and could build and rebuild its fighting forces much more quickly than Zeon could ever hope to.
>why is it shown that the feddies in origins have early guntanks but suddenly theyre so far behind when the one year war breaks out in suit technology
The Federation never put stock into MS until they had already well shown that they could kick ass. This combined with typical EF corruption makes it easy to see why mass produced Federation MS only showed up in the latter parts of the war.
Despite all of this the Federation was not completely lacking in MS; captured Zakus, half-reverse-engineered Zannies, pre-production GMs, and some other machines formed the Federation's rather non-significant MS forces. At any rate, until the GM arrived, conventional forces (that is tanks, infantry, aircraft, etc.) held the line well against the Zeon forces, which were simultaneously inexperienced at land fighting and somewhat ill-equipped for the task. This is why the Zaku II was slated for replacement by the Gouf and later Dom, as both the Zaku and Gouf were inadequate for land combat.
>>14210273
OP are you going by The origin or MSG ?
First of all The Origin is a reboot prequel, it's not set in the actual UC, it's an alternate retelling that changes a lot of things so that they make more sense than the actual backstory of 0079, such as, for example, giving the Federation primitive MS when in the actual show the Gundam, Guncannon and Guntank were the very first ones.
Second, the Federation saw that the Gundam was a smashing success very soon after Amuro first started piloting it, and immediately began pumping out cheap, simpler versions of the Gundam, the GM, by the dozen, and had a shitload up and ready by the time the White Base arrived at Jaburo. That's how the Federation won the war, huge numbers of rookie GM pilots against Zeon's experienced but much fewer pilots, because they didn't think there was much of need for a lot Zakus given that Federation didn't have their own MS until they suddenly did. Remember Char getting scolded for losing 3 Zakus? Three whole Zakus was a huge loss.
>>14210308
>a mass-production mobile suit that, while not very good
Actually, the GM is rather decent as far as MS go. Although it isn't Luna Titanium tough, it's still tougher than a Zaku, as well as faster and ore powerful both offensively and defensively. To boot, it was stronger than the Dom/Rick Dom as soon as it had rolled off the assembly line, and by the time the Gelgoog began to appear, the gap in power and strength between the suits was closed by the now experienced GM pilots.
Of course, we don't get a lot of this because the GM is the designated jobber suit. If there were more scenes of GMs kicking ass it'd probably be looked at more favorably but the very first scene of a GM in combat involves the darn thing getting itself impaled.
>>14210323
He mentions both and is asking about what happens between the two.
>>14210330
>Of course, we don't get a lot of this because the GM is the designated jobber suit. If there were more scenes of GMs kicking ass it'd probably be looked at more favorably but the very first scene of a GM in combat involves the darn thing getting itself impaled.
that's one of those things nice about The Origin, they put a good amount of scenes in showing the GM being an actually really high end suit
>>14210326
It's not a reboot, it's a straight up alternate timeline like Thunderbolt.
For UC, you have 4 different timelines; the Movie version, TV version, Origin and Thunderbolt.
The more you just try and fit Origin into the UC timeline you've grown up with, the more of an unnecessary headache you'll be given.
The Jegan makes my dick hard
>>14210273
Origin is an alternate retelling of 0079. The addition of guntanks (and guncannon) pre-oyw is one of the changes it makes to its setting among other things like white bases route to Jaburo and certain design aspects of the ms.
People just get muddled by the fact that in the OVA they changed the name to the guntank "early type" in order to kind of almost make it fit alongside other animated entries in UC in a non-committal sort of way.
The ground gms though are a straight up retcon slotted in awkwardly because they wanted to show other parts of the war and had to justify ms being there at the time.
>>14210609
I loved that scene in the manga where all those zaku come pouring into Jaburo and surrounding them on ridges are GMs who proceed to just shoot the crap out of them.
Char was the only one consistently killing them throughout the whole attack.
>>14212174
>The ground gms though are a straight up retcon slotted in awkwardly
What makes you say that?
You can't always be fighting in space, so save on adding expensive thrusters with fuel systems and instead slap on a big backpack with more guns.
Okay well this all makes sense now
>>14210330
Actually Rick Dom was pretty equal with the GM, and Dom had far better mobility and both had more armor, but they lacks proper beam weapons.
On the other hand Feds MS had better weapon storage, beam weapons, the learning computer data, standardization, shields and were in general more balance than the more specialized zeonic MS.
Something that people tends to forget is the GM was exactly a Gundam without Luna Titanium and magnetic coating.
>>14210273
The production dates of mobile suits from OYW are a mess because all the dozens of sides stories and ovas tend to add a fuckton magic MS from their asses.
But well you can always think they made a lot of mobile suits when they finished the first proto gundam. Like the "pre production GM" and Ground Gundams/GM from 08ms teams, since they were made before the GM that we saw a Jaburo.
>>14212415
Because originally there were no Fed MS outside the V project. Period. They rushed GMs into production and still didn't think they had enough so they armed everything they could get their hands on. Publics were shuttles with missiles strapped to them and Balls were weaponized worker pods. They didn't even have ships that could properly carry MS - they just kind of manetized/strapped shit to the hull and flew at the Zeon. So there were no GMs at Odessa, or anywhere. By the time they had enough GMs they were already driving Zeon off the Earth and launching Star One.
However, that's all been retconned so there were tons of specialized GMs and Gundams and other things running around all over Earth. Fed-captured Zakus, Pale Rider, etc. And yes, they added entire battalions of Ground GMs and MP Guntanks to Odessa. It rather fucks up the original narrative.
>>14216814
>Something that people tends to forget is the GM was exactly a Gundam without Luna Titanium and magnetic coating.
And the core block system, and a proper beam rifle, and a second beam saber.
>>14216814
The Rick-Dom's reaction time (turning 180-degrees) was 2.1 seconds. The GM's turn time was 1.6s. It's a massive difference.
And it had far worse acceleration (0.67 thrust-mass ratio) vs. 0.93 for the GM.
The only things that are remotely comparable are reactor output and even thenthe GM wins in that regard.
The GM was a fine suit and unlike the (Rick) Dom it was equipped to power beam weaponry. The only beam weapon the Rick Dom could use was a beam bazooka that packed its own reactor. Reactor outputs are similar but clearly the GM has a much better designed power system.
>>14212101
>For UC, you have 4 different timelines; the Movie version, TV version, Origin and Thunderbolt.
5 is you count the novelization. Sunrise really needs to let the OYW go already.
>>14216841
The Ground Gundam and Ground GM are stupid in the way they're implemented, but the concept of a prototype GM would have made a ton of sense.
The Gundam isn't actually a prototype GM even though that's what the show calls it. It's so different from the GM (software and computer, armor, torso and coreblock, weight, equipment, even small things like differences in reactor and backpack, etc.). There should have been early-type GMs running around in tiny numbers to test a near-final configuration of the GM well before its first deployment in Jaburo.
To put it in another word, there should have been an engineering sample that's almost identical to the final thing in terms of hardware that's used to design the software and make fine tuning for the mass production version.
>>14216849
I know those stats, but they are always pretty inconsistent, for example: the acceleration, both have pretty equal standard weight and total thrust.
The reactor output means how many shit, systems and "physical strength" the MS have ,it doesn't affect the mobility maybe the melee but not all the pilots were super newtype with jedi skills.
The reaction time (turning 180-degrees) is weird i really don't know if 0.5 seconds really helps a normal pilot that much since MS battles works as a mix of tanks combat and planes dogfight.
I mean GM clearly is a better MS but not with much difference.
>>14212174
>addition of guntanks (and guncannon) pre-oyw
Actually the original Gundam 0079 manga had Guntanks as part of the Federation's arsenal as well. They were just even more primitive than the one you see in The Origin, basically two tank turrets stapled onto a Guntank body.
>>14216858
Japan only cares about the OYW because of all the adults who grew up watching it. Modern Otaku don't care about Gundam in enough numbers to buy AU products in the amount that Bandai wants.
