I've been told that if I didn't like SEED, I won't like Code Geass.
Is this true, /m/? I've been thinking about starting Geass for a while now, but lordy lord, do I hate me some SEED.
>>14196347
They are nothing alike.
That said, SEED itself really isn't as bad as people on /m/ would like to pretend.
>>14196347
Code Geass is worse than SEED, so if you can't bring yourself to enjoy SEED then stay away from CG.
>>14196347
Code Geass is very melodramatic.
You might enjoy it for the cuhrazy things unless you become that part of the fandom who genuinely think that this is some deep political story with Lelouch as strategical genius.
>>14196358
This. It's the worst circlejerk on this board, maybe even on this website. SEED has some flaws but it's nowhere as bad as how this board portrays it.
>>14196347
I like the sequel better where Lelouch is a traveling merchant.
>>14196393
I thought it was a prequel?
>>14196347
Code Geass definitely tried to mimic Destiny in an attempt to grab the attention of its audience.
>>14196393
Lawrence is too smart to be Lelouch.
>>14196389
Because the main complaints were directed at Seed Destiny. Look at the so-called circlejerks, the criticisms were about SD.
>>14196358
>>14196389
>>14196789
>SEED itself really isn't bad
I love this meme
>>14197103
>I sure love to get angry at quotes I made up!
>>14196347
They are absolutely nothing alike.
>>14196347
Seed is a shitty remake of MSG that fumbles its own themes by the end of the first series and goes full retard in the second, badly. The MC is a fucking mary sue who single-handedly disarms entire armies by firing all his guns at the same time.
Geass is a hilarious comedy about an edgelord with magic brainwashing powers who thinks he's a master tactician, who then tries to pull a V For Vendetta on the French Britannian Empire of North America. The MC's final robot fight ends with his robot flat on its face with a sword up its ass and I'm nto even kidding.
They're nothing alike.
>>14196364
On the contrary, I didn't like see but enjoyed Code Geass all the same.
>>14196377
It can be interesting without being "deep" in politics or strategy though.
>>14197124
I'd agree in the sense that SEED was too self-serious and full of itself, while Code Geass was more of a campy production, which was taking some cues from 0079 yet twisted them around and also poking fun at SEED in the process. Suzaku acts like Kira, on the surface, but rather than being reward for that the show screws over his initial personality. Instead of Euphemia dominating the proceedings like Lacus did, the show makes a cruel yet hilarious joke out of her.
>>14196762
He's an experienced merchant, so sure. That said, Lawrence is also more boring than Lelouch in terms of personality.
>>14196347
There's no inherent connection. It's possible to like SEED and not care for Code Geass as well as to do the opposite (which would be my opinion, since SEED gets old fast and Destiny was the worst thing ever), so it all depends on what you're looking for in a robot show.
>>14196762
Lawrence is a dumbass.
Code Geass isn't as much of a robot show as it is a sort of weird parody of Death Note where you have this immoral protagonist with superpowers which he uses to just as keikaku everything, except he's an incompetent fuckup and everything always goes wrong.I love it
>>14196347
What idiot said this?
They are nothing alike.
You watch SEED once, maybe, if you must.
You watch Geass once a year.
C.G. has more in common with 00 Gundam and Death Note than SEED.
Definitely recommended, and we are close to the 10 year anniversary of Geass.
>>14197396
I don't think those two things are all that separate. Code Geass has plenty of robots and mecha battles. Yes, there is some obvious Death Note influence, but arguably Lelouch owes far more to Char than to Light. I don't know how much you were kidding at the end,, but it's precisely because Lelouch isn't perfect and screws up more that he's less of a cipher. Light was too inhuman.
>>14197837
>but it's precisely because Lelouch isn't perfect and screws up more that he's less of a cipher
That's why I love it
He spends most of the first season in an absolute shit robot which gets wrecked all the time and the only time he manages to do anything is in the overpowered beamspam bot which is mostly controlled by CC anyway (all he seems to do is fire the cannons)
And that's fine. It's charming. It's entertaining.
R1 looks pretty much like Death Note
R2 recycled and mimic scenes from Seed Destiny,
Code Geass is funny, unlike Seed.
Is the show worth watching if you like Pizza Hut?
>>14198228
Of course.
Better if you eat Pizza Hut while watching it.
>>14197103
It's not a meme. SEED isn't good either, it's just not really that bad.
>>14198000
I can't think of a single scene that fits the description though.
>>14196393
It would of been perfect if CC's voice actor did Holo but they used Kallen's instead.
>>14197343
>It can be interesting without being "deep" in politics or strategy though
Which it is,and that's what I am trying to say.
But it can't be helped with "babby's 1st Byronic/Anti-Hero anime" crowd with whom I had the most interaction with.
Even after all these years,I never get the Death note comparisons when Lelouch was clearly a Char.
There aren't much similarities between the two shows beyond having a wealth of porn.
>>14199635
It's two shows, both coming out around the same time, both featuring somewhat autistic protagonists making morally questionable decisions and manipulating the hell out of everyone around them.
That is, of course, where the similarities end. Light was pretty much always a self-absorbed prick in it for the lulz. Lelouch always had someone else in mind and so on.
>>14198544
SEED was...mediocre. Not as horrible as people say it was but pretty bad. Much of it was due to stock footage even if we've dealt with stock footage before. There was hirai face but we've had hirai face before.
No, what really ruined SEED was the drama. SEED bet everything on the drama and it never seemed to ring true. Nobody cared when Nicol died and hardly anyone remembered who Tolle was never mind how he died.
It's not like when Lockon died or Treize died. There was genuine tragedy there but when Flay died? People were cheering.
Still, I can forgive SEED since it pioneered 00's art style. It actually looks great if you ignore all the stock footage and it's very true to the roots of gundam. If SEED was just a better anime I'd say it would be a great intro to the gundam series simply to get a handle on all the tropes and cliches involved.
Destiny, on the other hand, is the only gundam anime I walked out on. Even G didn't piss me off that much and G Gundam would have been better off not being Gundam.
>>14199635
A lot of "Just as planned!" moments between the two. I'd never really relate the two though.
>>14196762
Lawrence is anything but smart.
>>14196347
Take Gundam SEED, throw it in with Death Note, and then throw some stupid bullshit school comedy scenes in it, and you have Code Geass. It's shit.
You can't really compare the two.
SEED is melodramatic but tries to do so while staying in the realm of "reality", and by that I mean it acts like it wants to tell a serious story despite the fact that the story it's telling is shitty and hard to take seriously.
Geass ACTS like it's serious, but if you have any capability of perceiving when something is a farce, then you know that's what this is. Geass only pretends it's series when it reality it's milking the melodrama for everything it's worth.
>>14200193
it's serious*
Geass gave us something that SEED didn't.bush
>>14196347
I absolutely hate Seed but I would still wholeheartedly recommend Code Geass. At least the first season. The second season is where it completely breaks appart and does feel like the bad parts of Seed.
>>14200293
I think Code Geass S2 has its lows but ultimately wraps around to where you could plausibly see the whole thing going, with some perspective, whereas SEED/Destiny gets so much worse that it literally switches protagonists and ends up in a place you couldn't really predict (or want to see).
![aba9ed2874cc7c0316fa343325746d26[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/SWTThZK.jpg "aba9ed2874cc7c0316fa343325746d26[1].jpg")
>>14200204Indeed.
>>14200193
Geass is more complex than that. You see some animes like IBO or even Toradora and they're very well grounded. The characters feel real and the plot feels grounded.
Geass was an Arthurian Legend being played out on the World Stage. It was a story that was SO BIG than you couldn't constrain it with petty things like pacing and sensibility.
Okay, now I need to back up a bit. In theater there's this thing called Heightened Dialogue. It's when a character stops using a more natural way of speaking to speak some high quality lines. It's like why in Hamlet, Hamlet says "To Be, or Not To Be, That is the Question." rather than "Yo dawg, I was thinking of maybe go off myself." There's a hundred ways of saying you're considering suicide, Why say it like that? BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT. These characters aren't somebody you can meet. They're Larger than Life figures whose actions shake the setting to it's Core.
Pic unrelated. Mostly.
>>14200676
>List supports that manly badass is best every time any where
Telling the truth like it is
>>14200676
>Geass was an Arthurian Legend being played out on the World Stage. It was a story that was SO BIG than you couldn't constrain it with petty things like pacing and sensibility.
I have listened to lots of bullshit in my life,but yours is the best so far.
>>14202687
Meh, it's a pretty fuzzy topic. The Dub never truly captured Lelouch's EPIC HAM so seeing the dub or sub can shade your experience.
If you don't buy in to the drama the action isn't going to carry you and if you don't like the speed of the action then the animation is just going to piss you off.
But I'm curious, why don't you like Code Geas? Did you watch it all the way or drop it in disgust? Another redundant question for the sake of Rule of 3?
>>14202687
I'd agree it's not all that genuinely Arthurian, aside from the use of Lancelot and a few other such names, but there is a bit of truth there. Code Geass was literally described as a "romance" in S1-era staff interviews. Which doesn't mean "romance" as in a love story, but rather in the sense of being a tale of fantasy and legend, rather than a realistic narrative.
>>14202817
>But I'm curious, why don't you like Code Geas? Did you watch it all the way or drop it in disgust? Another redundant question for the sake of Rule of 3?
Let me ask you a question instead- What made you presume any of those things?
You are talking to someone who saw Seed and Seed Destiny in it's entirety.
>>14203023
It was dramatic in the sense how things went out of hand due to unfortunate coincidences inducing irony (the Euphiemeter ,for example) with lots of homage to Gundam,if one really looks it carefully.But elevating to that of epic poems and epics of past is too much since it Code Geass does it for being "cuhrazy" istead of actually spinning a narrative like LoGH (now that's an anime that gives a sense of being tale of fantasy and legend actually).
But atleast you are closer to thruth than the rest who seriously think it was a political thriller and Lelouch being military genius.
>>14197427
>>14197427
This right here
>>14203106
Well, I certainly wouldn't say Code Geass has anything close to the historical status and high profile of classical poetry or medieval legends, let alone those that are considered literary masterpieces in the current age. But we should remember that many of those fantasy works were originally intended to be simple entertainment back in the day, whether for the masses or for the nobles, rather than works of delicate art. There's a lot of crass content and low-brow humor to be found in several of them.
Needless to say, I definitely enjoy and respect LOGH. It's quite an epic tale of warfare and politics on a truly grand scale. It's almost unique in that regard. That said, it's not exactly a "legend" in the old magical adventure/fairy tale-like sense. There is a legendary status, of sorts, to the exploits of Reinhard and his admirals as well as Yang and his crew. But the show is quite concerned with sticking to a relatively realistic backdrop and it doesn't try to go into mystical or magical territory. There are no spells, dragons, monsters or ancient swords. Those sorts of things, or at least their crazy modern equivalents, feel far more at home in something like Code Geass where you have magical eye powers, people who want to destroy "god" and immortal beings. That's closer to what I was referring to.
>>14203175
It would be more accurate to say that LOGH tells us a story about "real" events that were later remembered as a legend, while Code Geass is more like a modern myth someone made up yet has no basis in fact.
>>14203175
I don't see any point in stating the basic nature of folklore and art prior to pre-industrial revolution era in general ,when you pretty much admit that Code Geass was at the very best was just another in the line of commercial product made by a company which otherwise milks an Ip for plastic models ,supersaturating whatever themes creator tried to convey.
.
Now , your taste for Tolkienein Fantasy story is something dosen't fits Code geass that much as you describe. The whole "killing Goddo" thing is more like a homage to NGEs instrumentality and scheme of 3 character, not something any one else thought of pursue,if you actually see in point of view of anime's history rather than looking it with the glases of western literature studies.
If anything more , blatent Gundam homages and tropes makes it a very derivative show instead of some fantasy story on it;s owwn merit .
LoGH is legend in the way how great persona that came and shaped the course of history in past , causing things that we witness in present . Which is why within the show Founder of respective nations (Heinesen ,Goldenbaum) are brought up and emphasis how deed of Reinhard and Yang will be remembered in a similar fashion the generation to come. Which personally I will take it anyday over things that are responsible for D&D
>>14203353
And, to be honest Warhammer and it's 40k iteration has better potential in those elements than Code Geass has whichwas made like your typical chinese cartoon.
>>14203353
Effectively, the underlying point was simply to illustrate just how different Code Geass was from Legend of the Galactic Heroes in what each of them was aiming for. Not to argue that we're not talking about what are, in the end, just a bunch of cartoons.
It's not a perfect fit, but there is a reason for that comparison. The gap between a work of folklore and CG is still smaller than that between the same folklore and LOGH.
Of course, that specific "kill god" idea was taken from Evangelion. You're correct, but I wasn't analyzing the concept in complete isolation from the rest of the show. On the contrary, it's still part of the magical/mystical nature of Geass and everything related to it, such as the ancient ruins, codes of immortality, unexplained mysteries and more that are also found in works of fantasy rather than pure speculative sci-fi.
Like I originally said, the creators of Code Geass themselves have publicly used a literature-related term ("romance") to describe the show's genre. I think that's relevant to the analysis. It's not about ignoring the derivative nature of the production, which the staff also accepts in those same interviews.
That said, even folklore, legends and mythology have often been quite derivative, with plenty of similar ideas, characters and concepts being adapted or "borrowed" from older sources over the ages. There are multiple interpretations and versions of the King Arthur story, for instance, not just one perfectly crafted narrative by a singular author. So the lack of originality that you have pointed out was actually quite a common thing even back then.
Nobody should deny this anime series has a number of transparent Gundam references, as well as other less obvious ones (there's even some Escaflowne DNA too). It's entirely possible to just focus on that.
I wasn't thinking about Warhammer (or 40k), but sure. It's a rich universe. That said, Warhammer has other problems as a story due to the gaming system.
>>14203353
And like I said before, I like LOGH a lot. It's like reading a non-fiction novel or watching a documentary that chronicles a historical event. That's great in its own right and it's part of why the series stands tall among the rest of sci-fi anime. Even Gundam at its best doesn't really have that kind of ambition and scope in a consistent manner.
>>14200448
No but I mean from the character artist.
The exact world building or aspects of code geass that you are mentioning in lieu with floklore is not accurate considering the fact that the word "romance" used by the creators of Code Geass is actually more near to the stories created by Year 24 group of mangakas , who pioneered the modern genres that deals with that kind of romantic tragedies and drama such as shoujo, shoujo-ai ,shonen-ai (for example, take Terra e.. , Song of Wind and Tree, A cruel God reigns ) .
While for the point of view from western literature,one can take Code geass similar to that of tradition of memoirs of Marco Polo but for accurate analysis ,one has to take in the literature and pop-culture history of the land itself.Having CLAMP design the character make it more apparent. Have you noticed that Lelouch resembles Kamui from X/1999 ?
One can even presume why CLAMP , whose primary works are in shoujo genre were employed to do the character designs and also explains the incestuous and boy love elements in the story (which also happens to be melo dramatically tragic,like Ai no Kusabi).
It pretty solidifies the shoujo elements that the creators mentioned by using the word-romance.
Point is, finding relation with the previous works done in the country of the origin helps a lot when you realize how much homage creators had inserted (and oddly having worked as assiantent director to show like Gasaraki,it's influence is also there ) to it;s rich past that had works like Revolutionary Girl Utena, Rose of Versailles and a lifetime of work of early female mangakas who defined the way the medium is (year 24 group ) , and does justice to it apart from looking it from POV of a western fantasy literature study .
Going by your POV,it gets applied to a lot more shows than Code Geass itself,does not withstanding with the original argument of Code Geass being allusion to Western Epics and Folklore. Infact , only thing I know that actually does exploits it at it's most is the Fate Franchise
>>14203593
Meant for >>14203473
>>14203593
*Only thing I know that actually does exploits it and actually uses the those western legends (including many other from other parts of world ) at it's most is the Fate Franchise,in terms of being in anime,manga and VN medium
>>14203593
And by pointing out it's derivative nature with the mentions of obvious Gundam element is to point out that audience in Japan will find it more recognizable , apart from obvious shoujo elements (considering the amount of Fujo bait it was apart from typical Shoujo archetypes ), which is more in line with the pop culture since it's pretty well known fact that how deriving one work from other has been there since the beginning of civilization.In fact it is also one aspect of inspiration in creating a work of art.
And historical events and figures do shape the folklore of a region. That's why studies of past accounts in such things in order to derive the median of truth while analyzing events of personalities in past.
Just taking the Canterbury approach is pretty narrow , IMO. But then, getting worked on Cartoon of Nippon is stupidity too.
>>14203593
Interesting response. That's one possible and valid interpretation, because both of us should be able to admit the term "romance" has multiple meanings and several of them will apply to this show. But I would add they didn't restrict the term to the more shoujo-oriented aspects. They also also mentioned how one of the elements of a "romance" also includes the presence of nobility, old-fashioned clothing, kingdoms and empires plus the lack of attention to realism. So there is also a throwback to that kind of bygone world too, even though Code Geass isn't actually set in a medieval or otherwise strictly ancient setting (in retrospect, the presence of more explicitly fantastical elements in Renya, that manga set a few hundred years before the show began, also reflects that the universe's past might not be too different from that of a JRPG).
You're absolutely right in that establishing connections and relationships to previous works can be quite informative. Not only when it comes to CLAMP and their influence, but I'd argue it also applies when discussing past works from Taniguchi himself (there's some Gasaraki, to be sure, but arguably more elements from, say, GunXSword, which was almost an unintended prototype for the show in hindsight, except with less politics and more action/adventure).
Like I've alluded to before,my point of view does not seek to ignore or avoid looking at the history of anime and its production. Nor was I trying to argue that any western fantasy literature parallels would be too specific, given the lack of direct references, rather than just reflecting a more general mindset towards how to approach the creation of the series in terms of genres. I wouldn't claim it is literally taking chunks of literature and making them part of the story in the way Fate has done (though one could say CG and F/Z ended up tangentially sharing a concern about using the right vs. wrong methods to save the world).
>>14200676
>>14203473
IRA and NatSoc chiming in,you forget that apart from Lancelot and Blacknight ,"Geass" itlsef is pretty Irish and the whole contract and witch thing refers to Faut's Gothe
>inb4 madoka magica is /m/ since thermodynamics
>>14203667
This is fair enough and you could draw a few more comparisons purely based on that angle, but I don't think it's extremely strong in the series as a whole. Yes, "Geass" is inspired by an Irish concept interpreted differently.
![[blank]Code_Geass_KON_c05_178.png](https://i.imgur.com/VwJsZh0.png "[blank]Code_Geass_KON_c05_178.png")
>>14196347
I loathe SEED/Destiny. It's offensively fucking bad; Absolutely vile. Cuckuda can go fuck a cactus. Only remotely good thing that came out of it was the Stargazer OVA.
On the other hand Code Geass is dumb and absolutely crazy fun the entire run through. I even read the alternative continuity manga that focused on Nunnally and I loved it.Can't really see myself watching the Akito OVA though, the CGI is pushing me away.
>>14196347
SEED designs are still pretty solid, given that you like gundams in the first place
CG designs are all fucking stupid because they have a fucking tumor backpack attached.
For real yo, CG would be a thousand times better if those fucking backpacks weren't there.
>>14203742
But SEED is the one with "DUDE XBOX HUEG BACKPACKS FOR EVERYONE LMAO" shtick.
>>14203646
Well,agree most of it this time.
>>14203742
CG has flight packs, but they're not too widespread for a long time and serve a single purpose.
>>14197427
>You watch Geass once a year.
jesus fucking christ
>>14203742
>>14203748
>>14203775
He's probably talking about the cockpits. Almost every Knightmare ends up with the back of the cockpit sticking out of the Knightmare's back, like a backpack.
>>14196762
Literally every problem in the entire series is caused by Lawrence overleveraging himself and he never learns from his previous experiences with the same problem. You'd think that at least once in his entire life he would just buy things with money, or at least a level of credit that won't be completely ruinous if it turns out that the deal goes south.
>>14204423
But those don't really look like backpacks to me.
>>14204659
What would you call a large tumor placed upon one's back?
>>14204412
Does the idea of someone watching something they enjoy offend you anon?
>>14204891
A hunch?
>>14199839
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWjfbUfcJUM
>>14204891
It had to be there since the mecha in CG are small and not bulky. Had to place the cockpit somewhere. If anything it looks like a hunch but it's still better than millions of literal exchangeable backpacks in SEED.
>>14199839
Who the fuck is Tolle.
I got a bit worked up by Mwu dying. I really liked Mwu.
>>14196347
I still have this on my HDD. I think I won't watch it now after reading this thread.
>>14207442
it's okay he got better
>>14207442
>Who the fuck is Tolle.
EXACTLY. His death and Nicol's set up the confrontation between Athrun and Kira that led to them both loosing their gundams. But he's not even important enough to remember his name. Hell, I had to go look it up.
>>14196347
Just watch it, faggot.
>>14209718
Valvrave wasn't fun in the second part. It was just suffering. At least CG still had fun parts in R2 like the Rounds going to school. Hell, most of R2 from what I remember were fun parts.
CG also didn't have future bits that ultimately don't get used.
>>14209845
>>14209718
>Formula used in SEED was used to create Code Geass whose success led to creation of Valvrave.
You say that, but watching SEED gives me a very different impression from either series (which also have their own further differences).
The show sticks way too close to the 0079 mold and the pacing is almost glacial at times. Nothing really crazy or over-the-top happens for a long time. So calling SEED an example of the same "formula" sounds like a huge leap in my opinion. They do have some elements in common, but each equation is separate once you actually inspect them.
>>14209718
It's actually very incorrect. There's SEED fans who would never stand watching Valvrave and vice versa. Even just in terms of sheer popularity there are some pretty large gaps between them.
>>14196347
Code Geass S1 > Gundam SEED > Geass R2 > Valvrave S1 > Gundam SEED Destiny > Valvrave S2
Bunnysuit Kallen is a miracle of the universe.
>>14196347
I loved CG and thought Seed was absolute dogshit.
Does CC's hymen regenerate every time she comes back to life?
>>14209801
R2 just proves that people will look past writing quality if they get their stupid retarded "fun" shit.
Also first season had the Mao arc.
The Mao arc is the most banal bullshit.
>>14209908
of course the equation is different from each iteration but that osen't changes the fact that they have derived by the one precided them to get a money winning solution.
>>14210480
Even pilot suit Kallen is sex incarnate
>>14211178
Are you going to shitpost this meme some more or are you finally going to cough up some evidence to corroborate your """"""""point""""""""?
Also you forgot to mention how Seed is a modern retelling of Dragonar while you're at it.
>>14211184
What, you think those suits were there to protect them?
>>14211584
>defending the Mao arc
>>14211640
>reading into things that aren't there
>>14211649
Don't get bothered, it's a common shitposting tactic. They make the post 99% bullshit or bait and add one note of truth (or sometimes just the most commonly accepted opinion) so that when someone attacks them they can shift focus onto that one piece of truth. It's just a way to get one more reply out of you. Don't bite the bait.
>>14196393
I miss the days when some anon would claim LELOUCH IS ALIVE, ALL HAIL LELOUCH and have a shopped image of Lulu being the guy in the cart that CC was on.
>>14211649
>>14211660
>replying to yourself
>>14211688
Look, if all you've got is green text we're just going to ignore you.
>>14196347
I don't like SEED at all, but I loved Geass. Geass was fun from start to finish.
>>14211672
>implying Lelouch didn't get revived
>>14211727
Let it go.
>>14204412
>>14205117
>He doesn't give yearly tribute to his Emperor and Savior
>>14210480
Literally every girl in Geass is extremely fuckable. Thus is the power of Kimura.
>>14212014
Indeed.
>>14211160
Literally the entire mecha genre is proof of that. You think people started watching giant robots because of writing quality?
>>14212756
Speak for yourself, these days the only people who value "fun" as the only relevant enjoyment metric for anime are the trainwreck culture looking to get their jollies every season.
>>14196347
Are there any archives of forums or imageboards from when SEED Destiny was airing? I wanna see how people reacted to that piece of shit as it aired.
>>14211735
Maybe he did, maybe he didn't
>>14212767
"Fun" goes way beyond that as a relevant metric. Lots of Super Robot shows lived on that.
>>14212850
There was an official statement that he's dead for good anon. Your husbando is worm food.
