ZZ was a mistake
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You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
ZZ was a mistake
But it's not anime!
Was it? I just finished Zeta, should I give it a watch?
>>14194579
You're right, following up a travesty like Zeta with such a godly series as ZZ was a mistake.
I'm at episode 3 so far, the intro sucks but other than that it doesn't seen terrible so far.
>>14194601
>the intro sucks
>>14194594
If you can get past the massive =~20 episode tone shift you should give it a shot.
>>14194594
Watch L-Gaim first.
>>14194579
Correct, Zeta Part II sounds better.
Can somebody explain to me why there is such a distinct hatred/dislike of ZZ? I watched it and found it enjoyable.
>>14194613
It's not as serious as 0079 or Zeta, for the most part. It also makes fan favorites like Bright the butt of a lot of jokes.
>>14194619
That's it? Seriously?
>>14194613
It tried to add more humor into it, like 0079. But it failed and it just felt too different from Zeta. If it wasn't a direct sequel to Zeta, or if it took time to change it's style, it would have been fine.
>>14194579
Like recognizes like.
ZZ is in a horrible and kind of unfair position, both the expectations of the Z Gundam fans and the comparison to other (better) happy Tomino series like Xabungle and Daitarn hurt it a lot. Personally I don't hate it that much even if I think it handles some characters I love very poorly. I think it's okay. It's got Elle and Roux, they're cool.
I do hate Jewdough tho.
>>14194613
>Gary Stu protagonist
>Unlikable supporting cast
>Some of the most incompetent antagonists outside of Victory
>Bringing people back from the dead because 'lol Tomino'
>Massive tone shifts
>Established characters being derailed left and right.
>Char's Counter Attack being green lit which lead to ass pulls and Moon Moon.
>Ending is not satisfying at all as the protag fucks off and Tomino hijack's Britght to apologize to the audience for wasting everyone's time.
>>14194637
>Some of the most incompetent antagonists outside of Victory
Some of the most incompetent antagonists bar none. Victory wasn't nearly that bad.
>>14194637
Yo wait what? Who the fuck did he bring back from the dead in ZZ?
>>14194645
Judau's sister. Really, it's not different from what happened to Mwu in SEED, but it's apparently forgiven because "lol that silly Tomino!".
>>14194645
I think he means Leina.
Look at Iino's hand.
>>14194649
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, that was kinda bullshit.
>>14194645
Leina I think.
>>14194649
Worst part? When Puru tried to comfort Judau, he slaps her.
>>14194649
I thought it was forgiven cause of Sayla's return.
She probably teleported into the burning hut in her Terminator form and told Leina to come with her if she wanted to live, don't worry about it.
>>14194594
>should I give it a watch?
Only if you want more background of some of the stuff that was reference in CCA and 0096. Otherwise, it's pretty skippable.
>>14194669
To be fair, Puru was trying to have Leina killed.
>>14194669
She did fuck all to comfort him. She just demanded more attention from him as a "sibling". Fucking selfish cunt, no other Gundam character has made me happier when they died.
>>14194687
And people didn't care when Beecha and Mondo tried to kill Judau multiple times. Also Puru was a kid, she didn't know any better, but at least she was trying to help.
>>14194694
Puru 2 >>> Puru
>>14194678
Is there a fan-compiled necessary episodes list or compilation movies I could watch instead of the whole show?
>>14194736
Just watch the movie trilogy for Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta and then go to Char's Counter Attack, which let's you skip ZZ and not lose much.
I also just finished Zeta, I heard that ZZ was terrible.
Then again, the last 20 episodes of Zeta were also painful to go through.
>>14194758
The last 10 were pretty great
Zeta was really a mixed bag for me, the mobile suit designs in the beginning were great but after the Zeta they just got worse. The characters were annoying at times, but also great at times. And the show was just average to me in the middle.
>>14194770
>>14194758
If you think the finale for Z was bad, the last 10 episodes are a kick in the teeth for ZZ because they spend half the time with filler and Moon Moon and wrap up the final confrontation in 3 episodes.
>>14194770
In the last half of the show there was no character I could say that I loved, most of the characters that were popping in just wanted to fuck someone or were angry because they weren't corresponded, it felt like soap opera and got me really angry.
Sad thing is, Zeta started strong, I felt that it took a dive as time went on, maybe because it's way longer than it should've been.
>>14194613
Fuck what they did to Yazan.
>>14194792
I felt that they tried to do too much with Zeta, which is why it seemed a bit rushed. If they had 2 or 3 more episodes I feel like it could have gone much better.
Also, what happened to Amuro in ZZ? I don't remember seeing him at all.
>>14194605
It really does, compared to both of Zeta's openings
>>14194770
>the mobile suit designs in the beginning were great but after the Zeta they just got worse.
Nigger, I'll fight you. Gabthley, Gaza-C, Qubeley, Byarlant, The O and Psyco Mark II are all top tier designs.
>>14194813
Well that's because it's not Anime. So of course it sucks.
>>14194811
Funny thing is, the character motivations are lacking, even compared to Gundam 79, they try to pass them as deep as meaningful but they make no sense at all.
Can someone tell em what the fuck was up with Reccoa? I couldn't understand her motivations for the life of me.
>>14194832
I had no idea either, what I got was she didn't feel she got enough respect from the men on the Argama. Even so, it's not like the Argama was all of the AEUG.
>>14194832
She's a woman, if you're expecting a woman to be rational, you haven't met a real one.
>>14194834
She was probably pissed that Char didn't want to bone her.
Then again, she's over 18.
Anyways, will I miss anything skipping ZZ? I'm scared that it will go on soap opera territory like Z.
>>14194847
Nope, just watch the Zeta movies and move on. The only thing that is brought up from ZZ in any future series is a minor character in Unicorn, and even that isn't a big thing.
Am I not allowed to like both Zeta and ZZ?
>>14194858
Do the movies add something or do they just compile the series?
>>14194878
The movie changes the ending in a way that allows CCA to come right after Zeta, with no need of ZZ to bridge them. A certain character who originally died just "leaves" though.
However, with Unicorn now, watching only the movies might only lead to confusion, since it has more references to ZZ.
>>14194876
No
Choose motherfucker
>>14194891
The only real reference to ZZ in Unicorn is Miranda, and even then it's not something that disrupts the narrative of Unicorn.
>>14194858
>Nope, just watch the Zeta movies and move on
I wish this meme would end.
I don't even think Zeta's anything special but all the problems the show has the movies fix absolutely nothing on the contrary it commits the opposite mistakes. Segments that some people think were dragged out were so cut and hack jobbed that unless you watched the full series there is no context and you don't have a clue what the fuck is even going on.
ZETA ANT Movie 2 is the worst animated movie I have ever seen in my entire life what a disaster that one was, does Sunrise have no shame showing that garbage in the theaters?
You would think after novels,manga and so on that improved many ways over the original TV airing. Now 20 years later at the time of ANT release they would make the best version but no you just got another type of disaster.
Fucking Kitazume's Zeta Define is better than ANT yes despite his hilariously bad conversion from analog to digital art it's got more merits to it than fucking ANT.
>>14194832
>>14194834
>>14194837
She is literally an adrenaline junkie.
She sees people who are powerful and follows them because of that. That's it. She floated over to Yazan because of this, and followed Sirocco because of this, and she had originally followed the AEUG for the chance to get into even more violent action than she had in her days as a guerrilla fighter. With the exception of her first action as a guerrilla her entire deal was just being violent for the sake of it and following those who were powerful.
Kamille rightly called her on her bullshit but obviously she was flighty about the whole thing.
>>14194876
You are but /m/ will meme you to death about it if you mention it. I liked 'em both.
>all this talk of skipping ZZ
Losers, the lot of you.
Form your own opinions of things you watch. I saw ZZ knowing none of the memery surrounding it and enjoyed it. Others did the same and didn't, or did. Do it yourself and judge.
What pissed me off the most was Haman going from "Mashmyre, be kind to civilians" to "Mashmyre, drop a colony on Dublin while this other jackass keeps civilians from escaping." Makes no sense.
>>14194832
She wanted Quattro's cock and didn't get it.
>>14194832
Reccoa's not that hard to understand. She's caught between being a soldier and being a woman, and that's it really. She spent most of her life being a respected soldier via rebel activity and so on but could never find anyone to treat her as a woman because she was always busy fighting for a cause with others more concerned with the same. She hoped Char would, but he only saw her as a comrade so when Scirocco saw her as a woman she jumped ship to join him. She knew all along that he was an asshole, but she didn't care because he gave her the one thing she felt was missing in her life: validation as a woman. She joined willingly because she craved that validation so much that she was willing to join up with someone she knew was horrid and committed awful acts like colony gassing to get it, even if it ate at her conscience to do so.
Emma is her direct counter part in the show. Reccoa goes from the A.E.U.G. to the Titans, Emma goes the other way. Reccoa is a mess that feels incomplete without that validation while Emma doesn't care about that validation because she knows who she is and what she is and feels content in it. It's why Fa, Emma and Reccoa all question a woman's path in life and such during conversation in the show - because each of them has their own conviction on what it is thanks to different paths in life. Reccoa came to a kind of batty solution because she's had a shitty life, living as a child soldier and growing up in to a fucked up adult. It's not a good life for anyone and will almost certainly result in mental trauma of some kind, which in her manifested in her need for sexual validation and attachment to a bad cause just to get it.
>>14198217
It's not just being a woman, it's being a basic human being. Reccoa herself puts it best when says she has nothing to return to at the Argama. It's shown time and again that the people on the Argama basically don't give two shits about each other beyond a professional "muh military" way. The only person to show Reccoa and semblance of normal human care is Kamille. It's best put into perspective when Reccoa is in the medbay after being shot. Fa comes to visit her and Reccoa is actually surprised and happy to see someone came, but Fa quickly explains she only came because Kamille asked her to check up on Reccoa.
Reccoa herself acts like everyone else though. She ultimately rejects Kamille's kindness and even chastises him for being too kind. Even though she wants to have more intimate relationships she ultimately turns Kamille away.
Your interpretation of Reccoa struggling between being a soldier and a woman is right, but at the most basic level the main cast has a very impersonal relationship that isn't suitable for the individual. Which is in spite of the violence and "corrections" they show when they get out of line. It's not just a matter of Tomino's characters being funny and weird, Reccoa exists because she demonstrates the struggle between the need for basic humanity and the impersonal - for lack of a better word - autism of the characters.
>>14198266
Yea, I can see that. The terse and professional relationship and lack of emotion between much of the cast is one of the main reasons I didn't enjoy Zeta, but I never really thought to analyze it as a theme I guess.
>>14194594
I am not even the most die-hard Zeta fan, but the tone of Zeta right into ZZ is just the hardest whiplash I've ever had. It's like watching Six Feet Under and then straight into a episode of Ed, Edd, n' Eddy
30 YEARS of ZZ Gundam, kids!
CELEBRATE
>>14198419
>>14198426
>>14198433
>>14194847
ZZ is essential to make sense of the obscure UC side story side story unadapted manga.
>>14194811
Amuro was done after Zeta and never supposed to appear in ZZ, no matter what form it took from what I can tell. It's possible if ZZ had taken a different path and CCA not happened that Tomino would have done another post ZZ story with him and he'd probably have had a minor role in any theoretical ZZ like Sayla did in the one we got, but as is he's busy fighting with Karaba and doesn't appear presumably. He might be helping set up Londo Bell or something I guess.
I hated ZZ mostly because of Beecha and that other dude.
Iino should have been the lead
>>14194811
>Also, what happened to Amuro in ZZ? I don't remember seeing him at all.
When they're on Earth, it's mentioned that he had gone back to fight on space. When they go back to space, it's mentioned that he had already returned to the Earth frontlines.
>>14198171
It's not a meme, it's fact.
The movies cut a lot of the fat out, and more than some characters vanishing, there is nothing that would confuse the viewers who have not seen the Zeta TV series. Although it does make the assumption you're watching the movies in order to keep up with the narrative since there's no recap.
It also has superior OP and EDs
>Worst animated movie
Now is not the time for hyperbole that you can't back up unless you're talking about the combining of new and old animation.
>>14198462
>22 year old Elle
Muh dick has gone beyond the time.
I think ZZ is the only show I can think of that the begging is bad, the ending is bad, but the middle is fucking great.
ZZ can get fucked for making the mid-season "upgrade" obligatory/mandatory rather than the one-off thing it'd been in Z. Now every other Gundam tv series after it you're left waiting with half a season of a shit Gundam waiting to get to the good one.
>>14198419
>30 YEARS of ZZ Gundam, kids!
>CELEBRATE
ZZ movies when?
>>14199195
>left waiting with half a season of a shit Gundam waiting to get to the good one.
... Wut? The mid season upgrades are almost always awful though, the Double Zeta especially.
>>14199195
Zeta started the trend anon, so it should get the blame - not the one that continued or cemented it. Once It was done in Zeta, no toy company would refuse to do it again. Hell, ZZ probably got its before Zeta did, since the ZZ shows up about episode 10.
>>14199208
>Zeta started the trend anon,
Mazinger Zeta, maybe
>>14199195
>ZZ comp movies
>Takes the Zeta comp movies as canon
>ZZ still ends up being canon
Please good ol based Tomino make it happen.
The end of Zeta really left an impact on me, so the transition to ZZ didn't feel good to me.
>>14199230
>Kamille gets the Zeta stolen from him
>Has to pilot a common suit while Jewdough gets the Zeta and ZZ
>>14199208
>Zeta started the trend
Something has to be done more than once to be a trend. Z introduced the idea, while all the other ran with it. That's what makes it a trend. The trendsetter isn't at fault.
>>14199234
>Kamille just does not want to pilot anymore
>Talks about becoming a doctor on earth
>Fucks off with Fa at the time Fa leaves in ZZ
>>14199242
I don't think that Kamille would just stop piloting, at the end of Zeta he says their lives can't return to normal since he has a better understanding of his duty.
>>14199234
Camile would meet Judau in the beginning, but afterwards they'd just pull an Amuro in ZZ, especially if we're talking about a recycled footage movie, "Camille left to fight these really important off screen enemies that don't really matter at all", and then the plot would follow basically in the same way, aside from cutting all Haman scenes or replacing her with Glemmy whenever possible..
>>14199247
Nah he finds a new duty in being a doctor.
>>14199239
Now you're just making excuses to avoid pinning the blame on Zeta. Zeta started it, the trendsetter is to blame, not in all scenarios, but certainly in this one, because if it hasn't done it for no real reason (yes, I'm aware the shoe justifies it - but toys were obviously the real reason) then the rest might not have.
>>14199304
>the trendsetter is to blame, not in all scenarios
I don't want to deal in absolutions as I believe there are usually reasonable exceptions to most things like this. But why in this scenario is the trendsetter more of a badguy than the copypasta followers?
If ZZ had done it, but CCA and Victory hadn't, and it didn't show up again until the AU's, would Z still be to blame for a trend occuring long past its time?
>>14199343
CCA already didn't. Neither did F91. Probably because it's harder to fit two Gundams (i.e. not the Rgz) in to a film. Zeta still set the pattern of using two Gundams to maximise sales, because skipping one show (Victory for instance) doesn't mean otherwise.
>>14199242
>>14199247
>>14199267
The problem here is there were still a bunch of other AEUG pilots that were still alive at the end of the movie. So even if Kamille calls it quits, it's much more likely one of those unnamed pilots get a shot at the Gundam than Jewdough.
>>14194601
I take that back, the intro is great.
>>14199362
Didn't Amuro start with one suit and end up in another in CCA? Granted they weren't both Gundams. Z did something on its own and others followed. Thus the pattern starts with ZZ. If ZZ and others hadn't followed suit, would Z then be called out for trying something different and its failure to catch on?
>>14199372
>cameo appearances
>>14194832
She was a soldier(informant/spy)since she was a teen who wanted to be seen as a woman. Its mentioned in an early episode of zeta.
Char was being Char to get her to do her job.
Woman feelings get in way of job.
Woman go to pussyslayer Scirocco who basically out-Char's Char.
Woman knows she's wrong but can't go back so she says fuck it and goes full retard while trying to validate her bullshit
Two women end up dead.
Char doesnt care because much like everyone in the AEUG is a tryhard hardass because they want to be taken seriously.
A lot of minor shit with Reccoa just comes back into full swing in the 2nd half of Zeta. It's an okay-ish build up IMO but a lot of people forget it because no one expects Reccoa to be important at all.
>>14199395
You could cite Zeta if I'd didn't catch on but you liked it I suppose, yes. You'd certainly cite it over another show that aped it.
>>14194673
why is it pronounced puru and not PLEH or PLAY or some shit
>>14194637
You have inadvertently convinced me that ZZ was Tomino trying to parody Zeta and the more serious parts of 0079
>>14194792
>it felt like soap opera
This. Zeta was way too melodramatic to take seriously
>>14199699
It's why he thought it was stupid and had it retconned.
>>14194594
Absolutely. I love Zeta and ZZ was and is fantastic.
>>14194837
That was literally her excuse.
>>14194594
Yes. They are made to be watched back to back. You've literally just watched half of a show.The worse half.
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