Why hasn't Kamen Rider been as popular in the sates compared to PR?
What went wrong?
No big robots.
That's a good question. I don't really know.
Maybe the idea of a super hero team is more appealing to children?
It could be that it was simply overshadowed by Power Rangers at the time, the first adaptation for Kamen Rider in the West (U.S. Audiences at least) was branded as a Power Rangers spin-off.
The jews did this.
Quite literally.
That Masked Ri DER wasn't too popular and they couldn't just keep making more adaptations were probably factors.
Sentai has always been more appealing to westerners than rider. Before PR, sentai was huge on France, Spain, Brazil, etc. Black got a Brazilian dub as a result of sentai and MH's popularity.
>>14173817
Not positioning it in the market as "edgy, dark PR for bigger kids" at the time hurt its debut.
>>14173817
>masked rider
All characters were annoying, took footage from one show that had no inmediate next season, and didnt even make an ending. Westerns also tend to think you can only enjoy one thing in each genre, hence the made up "rivalries" like pokemon-digimon or star wars-star trek.
>power rangers
All characters were forced to be relevant.at least in their episodes, had a developing story(even if bare bones) and was the first thing like it for most people.
Also, used footage from a franchise that wasnt on hiatus.
Tl;dr they gave a shit about pr, not so much about masked rider, vr troopers and so on. And pr came first.
>>14174466
>tfw the only way that most americans knew about Metal Heroes were VR Troopers and Beetleborgs
>>14173817
Your image is what went wrong. Masked Rider was a terrible show all around and killed western interest in it for over a decade
Because America doesn't share its love for insects like the Japanese do? Honestly I thought Black looked lame compared to the Power Rangers when I was a kid with those bug eyes.
>>14174581
I was and am terrified of insects but I loved Beetleborgs when I was a kid. I know that isn't KR, but I highly doubt insects is the reason people don't like KR.
>>14174628
>>14174581
Maybe because of its altered origin? IIRC MC was an alien at the time. I think the audiences wanted a different kind of character and are already getting tired of aliens.
It's also just a problem of who would do it now. Nickelodeon? Disney XD? CW?
>>14173817
Honestly? Power Rangers was a vastly better show than Masked Rider (and Beetleborgs) and also started the American sentai boom of the 90s.
Source: kid who grew up watching all of that stuffI loved Masked Rider as a kid though, because the suit designs were great
>>14173830
>>14174466
Both of these guys summarized this pretty well. Americans seem to think that only one of something in a particular genre can exist. Case in point, look at how many people shat on Pacific Rim without watching it just because they thought is was a Power Rangers/Transformers clone. Like it or not American pop culture seems to think that every robot is either a Transformer or a Megazord and any transforming hero character is a PR knockoff.
Mishandling on the products
Writing for kids is harder than people think, especially if it is adapting another work. There is no reason a KR show that barely resembled it's original couldn't have worked in the west, at the core it is a super hero show and the west loves that. They just fucked it up twice and that was enough to not try again
>>14174748
>Americans seem to think that only one of something in a particular genre can exist.
This isn't true, people just like the rivalry nature of it and want that to exist. You liked pokemon or digimon more, marvel or dc more etc but people actually tend to consume both. It's only with stuff like video game consoles where it was expensive you saw a real divide, and even that is just play fighting as well now.
Also this is by no means an american only thing
>>14174748
>bullshit: the post
Are you schizophrenic
>>14173817
>What went wrong?
>>14173817
Saban's Masked Rider was shitty.
>>14173901
Didn't care much for that one either.
>>14175027
At last I know what this Wretched creature is from.
>>14173878
Brazil really appreciates toku. They're huge fans of Juspion.
>>14175027
Suit acted by Verne Troyer
Masked Rider was a disaster in many different ways. To differentiate from Power Rangers and VR Troopers, they made it a family sitcom. Dex was adopted into a multi-cultural family with a fat white dad, an Asian mom, and an adopted black brother. I feel that was their attempt to match Power Ranger's diversity quota and failing hard. There was wacky sitcom antics all over and it was cringey as fuck.
There was Ferbus... nuff said.
Dex sounds constipated all the time. It's particularly bad during fight scenes with his awkward kiai. They should have gotten the guy that was playing Shadow Moon to be Masked Rider, at least his voice wasn't grating.
The stock footage use was bad, well, more they did a poor job trying to match the footage. Dex wore the same outfit as Kotaro, and Kotaro showed up all the time. Not to mention the footage was even older than Zyuranger and thus degraded more.
Even if the show was a success, they couldn't continue it. They blew it with the "Masked Rider Warriors" scene, and going backwards to Black would have been awkward.
If Masked Rider was trying to be wacky and goofy, Kamen Rider Dragon Knight went to the other extreme and tried to be cool and serious. Instead, it was BORING. Fight scenes in slow-motion, recaps that go on for like 5 minutes EVERY EPISODE, droning music, very little story until the final 10 episodes when it realized "Oh shit, we forgot to tell a story" and it rushes through. There's THREE clip shows, including the final episode. The show was just dumb.
Allegedly, Adness Entertainment produced the entire show before shopping it around to different networks. Even if DK was a success, that financial irresponsibility would have destroyed them. I never even saw the toys in stores, and I never see them at conventions. Plenty of PR toys, zero Dragon Knight.
Of course, the show bombed.
It's a shame really, Kamen Rider could have big potential. Maybe market it for teenagers on the CW or something? Air it alongside the Flash.
>>14175104
At least he wasn't the VA, too, so he can't share all the blame.
And playing Ferbus is still more dignified than appearing in any given Pauly Shore movie.
>>14175310
>can't share
*can't take
>>14174748
agreed
it's pretty hard to start a discussion with them when you talk about combining robots and all they spout is HEHEH VOLTRON
>>14174923
nah, the guy has a point
you have to look at enthusiasts to actually make them talk about something like robots outside of the usual
it's why you get idiots thinking all mons are Pokemon even though they function differently (and Pokemon is more of an "army" RPG than a monster sim)
>>14176142
>bullshit: the post part 2
>>14176164
you keep saying that yet you never showed proof that it's bullshit
>>14173817
What's the fourth form in the back
>>14176171
>yet you never showed proof that it's bullshit
>how does logic work
Substantiate your claims.
Saban's Masked Rider actually had some pretty good lore and world building. Edenoites evolved from insects instead of apes like humans, King Lexian was a Masked Rider at some point, Dex's whole thing about learning social graces, etc. The problem was that the show was terribly produvef.
>>14176190
how does indeed
I mean, just go to any normie discussion, show a pic of kamen rider, and watch as they say power rangers
>>14176202
Oh, and Alpha 5 was created by King Lexian.
>>14176172
Dex's evil brother, Donnie. It was going to follow the same thing the Green Ranger did but it never showed up in the end. There's also a silver guy called the Masked Rider King if I recall. Which was going to be Dex's power-up.
Again, none of this came to pass, since the show was cancelled.
>>14173817
I had toys from this show. Specifically the base RX form and the gold form. It was fun.
>>14173817
Mainly came out at a shit time here. Saban's first attempt was right in the middle of them also pumping out shows like VR Troopers along with all those god awful knock offs like Tattooed Teenage Alien Fighters from Beverly Hills probably making kids think it was just another lame knockoff.
>>14176142
Voltron wasn't the first combiner robot, hell it wasn't even the first team robot. Sentai did both first. And Spider-man before that!
americans tend to like ONE thing. If kamen rider came first, then power rangers. kamen rider would of been on top
>>14176212
I remember the setup for Masked Rider was all kinds of weird but the costumes/figures were cool
>>14176367
And those don't matter on Americans because for them the first and only thing that came into them was Voltron.
>>14173817
they chose a bad season to adapt. I think the zyu ranger designs are iconic and resonated with kids so much so that there are 30 year old PR fags to this day. Black RX costumes aren't very glam. the base form is pretty bland. Also they adapted it in the worst way possible. I.E. Ferbus
>>14176690
You're retarded, bro. Here, let me just prove your little shit theory wrong
>Superman, Batman and Spider-Man all enjoyed vast popularity
Eat shit. Pull the trigger.
>>14173817
Because children are simple minded and five characters plus a robot is instantly cooler than just one character before they even watch either show.
>>14176848
Poor comparison. You're talking about stuff from the 30s that is already ingrained in popular culture. Kids grow up seeing all three of those pretty much equally and at the same time.
Was Masked Rider truly a failure, or did it fall into the same pit Beetleborgs did where there wasn't any more modern footage to adapt? Same thing to an extent for VR Troopers; though they still had Metal Hero shows from the 90's.
Its unfortunate that the big toku boom in the 90's happened as tv toku in Japan was on a bit of a downturn. While there was a huge backlog of shows that could've been adapted, TV footage was raising in quality and made the shift between US footage and Japanese footage nearly unusable.
As for Dragon Knight, it came out right when Saturday Morning blocks where dying, and as Disney was pulling the plug on Power rangers.
I think the future of KR in America, if there is any, lies in netflix; either as a good dub, or even as an entirely original co-production. On the whole, the majority of kids who watch cable TV don't want action shows, they want the same sort of kid sitcom and comedy cartoons they already get. Netflix is the way things are heading to for more niche stuff. IF the PR movie succeeds, I can see them trying to make their own Japanese toku style show.
>>14176205
To back you up, when I was playing one of the KR games in school on my PSP, people asked me if it was a PR game
I'm spanish, to give more context
Rider is too dependent on certain themes and its aesthetics are pretty much just that--i.e. to get Rider you must start with the first show. Meanwhile, Sentai is much more simplistic and elastic, and the concept behind it clearer and shallower.
To see this in action:
Rider = there's a dude that looks like a bug with a bike and his powers derive from a tragedy.
Sentai = there's five dudes with different colors each; they have a mech when they combine their powers.
The appeal of the second is much more readily understandable and propagable to a child, and the concept leaves room for a lot more experimentation in plot, and at the same time permits shows to be easily contrasted; add to this that the thing has 40 years of constant output and better toys.
To put it simply: Rider is harder to market, harder to sell, and harder to work on.
Lastly, there's the particular situations of the shows and of America during the nineties.
>>14176869
>moving the goalpost
There was a time when Superman, Batman and Spider-man were new, you unthinking piece of trash.
>>14177090
Fuck the thumbnail looked like Garo
Rider just got lucky with Kuuga. The franchise was a bigger clusterfuck than modern Ultraman. Unable to live for its autistic adult fanbase, unable to truly die for its autistic adult fanbase. Finally got a hit without nostalgia with Black but Toei was so scared of fucking up again that they make Tetsuo Kurata to sign for Black RX and then the franchise went back to fanboy's dominion.
>>14177455
Part of the problem is that they didn't want to franchise living just for old fans, which is why they didn't try the crossover stunt with Super-1, even though it had just worked with Skyrider.
Black RX is an odd situation. It really feels like the staff was forced to throw the old Riders there against their will, which is why they pretty much do nothing aside from rescuing RX once, in spite of appearing in 7 episodes. They don't even defeat a single named monster - not even recycled suits. Even figuring out minor things, like how there was an extra Rider or Crisis troops spying nearby fell on RX's actual secondary cast.
I think one of the biggest problems was starting with RX and not Black.
Now I'm incredibly biased because I grew up on a military base in Japan and thus watched Black as a little kid (admittedly not understanding a word), but I genuinely think that Masked Rider would work in the US if they just told the story of Black + RX. Yes, you can replace all the non-suit footage with white actors, I don't care, just keep the actual episode plots. There was nothing in Black (and certainly not RX) that was darker than anything Don Bluth made for kids in the 80s. Rename the villains Gorgon for the sake of simplicity, but keep Shadowmoon because fuck that's a cool name. SM works as a villain because every kid growing up then knew the story of Cain and Abel, even if they were never directly taught it. Plus believing your big brother is a jerk isn't hard for most boys to imagine. I can guarantee kids will be glued to the screen in the episode where Black "dies" and will make sure they don't miss the next one to find out what happens.
For RX, just call it Masked Rider Mk 2, and have characters call him Mark 2 for short.
>>14177090
>to get Rider you must start with the first show
I disagree, Japan has always treated KR like it was Marvel Comics, and as Stan Lee famously once said "every comic issue is someone's first", so they never make sure you're too lost in following along and understanding what this franchise is all about.
>>14177511
It could have been Kamen Rider Black/Kamen Rider Green (with Kamen Rider Gold and Blue forms, or even Silver if they wanted to include Shadowmoon)
>>14177517
Nah man, you gotta keep Shadowmoon's name.
Maybe get Peter Cullen to voice him transformed.
>>14177511
Even if they wanted to start with Black RX, they easily just could have used something like Black's plot for it.
Crisis captures the "chosen one" to be their emperor, but he refuses and escapes before brainwashing, becoming the Masked Rider! Then they could also set up the Shadowmoon twist and play their conflict using just the two episodes of battle footage that they had with him.
The main issue is that at the time Saban had a lot of success making up random stories based on the Japanese footage, so they didn't even attempt to look at the franchise's story, just attempting to find a way to use that footage for their own show.
When it comes down to it, Masked Rider was just a poorly made series. Power Ranges isn't exactly high art, but it was leagues above the competition.
>>14176901
>Its unfortunate that the big toku boom in the 90's happened as tv toku in Japan was on a bit of a downturn
It's a Catch-22. If the shows in Japan were popular at the time, they would have been too expensive to adapt. The 90's toku boom in America was only possible because Saban was able to get them for cheap.
>>14177090
>To put it simply: Rider is harder to market, harder to sell
(rider sell more merchandise tho)
>>14177591
It was too obvious that they did it to cash in the success of PR. I mean, Masked RI-DUHR not only used footage of RX but also from ZO and J for no apparent reason, thinking that the kids would dig it like PR. And PR had guys like Chip Lynn in its behalf.
>>14177514
Not sure cape comics would be my go to when talking about not selling based mostly on brand.
>>14177830
In Japan.
>>14177888
See you say that, but everyone knows who the X-Men are. Everyone knows who Captain America is, who Spider-Man is. And that was before the movies. It's because they had them infiltrate the common conciousness of society.
>>14177979
That doesn't make it not selling on brand. In fact, it reinforces my point: Rider needs societal recognition to be succesful, Sentai doesn't.
Lets see another example: if you saw Amazon and Wizard in a vacuum, you could most likely not tell they were the same series; the same can't be said of any Sentai, because what makes them what they are is instantly recognizable. This is also why you can almost imagine any group of three or more people as a Sentai of sorts, but to imagine someone as a Kamen Rider you need much more specific cues.
>>14173817
Westerners don't like the idea of a hero completely covered. This is why in most of their comic book movies the superheroes when in costume they will remove the mask any chance they get.
>>14173817
Fuck off power faggot
I wouldn't be surprised if we see Amazons hit the west. It would work so well over here I can't help but feel they kinda had it in mind when writing it.
>>14182093
I have to wonder why we don't have that. Maybe they're just waiting for all 13 episodes to be out as Americans prefer binge watching? Anyone have any stats on how the Japanese feel about binge watching?
Or Toei could just be batshit crazy as per usual.
>>14173817
antman will fix that
>>14181691
Iron Man? Spider-Man? Batman? etc.
>>14178106
Yeah, that is probably a problem. You see Sentai/PR, even if you don't know the specific series, you know what it is at first sight (except Battle Fever and MAYBE Gobusters). KR's "iconic" design is the big bug eyes, that's it (fancy belts aren't exactly KR exclusive), and they're not nearly as omnipresent as guys in colored spandex who pose as a team (not all Riders have them, they can get really stylized in some cases)
>>14184525
You can see Bats's face in costume, though.
>>14184538
just mouth
>>14184546
And his eyes, and the mask is shaped to fit his nose. His face is fully recognizable as a human face, unlike Iron Man/Spidey's full helmet/mask, and really that's the main point here.
>>14184559
Ahh I guess you should've been clear about that. I thought you meant exposed face.
>>14173817
like digimon (uncut) too adult for kids, too kiddy for adults
>>14184560
He's just moving the goalpost. Plus, his point is fucking retarded because you still can't see who is under the mask which is why Batman wears it in the first place. Also he never addressed Spider-man, Iron Man and every other hero that wears a mask.
I don't think american kids need an imported hero now that they have the MCU
>>14173817
They butchered Kamen Rider Black RX by making the already lighter and softer show and make EVEN MORE KID FRIENDLY.
Kamen Rider was always a darker spiritual predecessor to Super Sentai. Black RX, despite it's light-heartedness, still had its moments.
Not to mention that they replaced the cyborg part with lol alien, mixed up the names of other Kamen Riders (turned Sky Rider into Amazon), and added stupid shit like that one annoying mascot character that looked like the disowned son of Sasquatch and a tailless Platypus.
Needless to say, Shotaro Ishimori WAS NOT AMUSED.
>>14185789
>Ishimori
Who?
>>14185791
The guy who came up with Kamen Rider in the first place.
Their version of Stan Lee.
>>14185808
There is nobody named Shotaro Ishimori, though.
>>14185808
That's not fair, Ishinomori actually created his own mangas. To be fair, the rider we know and love has a bigger debt to Toru Hirayama than Ishinomori
>>14185837
>>14185840
Darn. Forgot the no in Ishinomori.
>>14185791
>>14185837
>>14185848
Fuck Ishimori's pretentious Ishinomori moniker. Seriously, that's so cringe worthy. Absolutely fedora tier.
>>14185945
*tips fedora*
>>14176842
>>14176842
>black rx
>bland
>>14176848
Those came out when nerd culture wasnt as developed.
>>14185965
>Those came out when nerd culture wasnt as developed.
>moving the goalpost AGAIN
Deadpool. Where are you going to take that post now?
>>14185980
It's "moving the goalpost" the only thing you can say? Sorry for not covering every possible case on every post.
The franchise rivalry is real. Heck, there's even marvel vs dc arguments. Prove it's wrong or shut up.
>deadpool
Casuals dont know about she-hulk, so it's their first fourth wall breaker, that's why it's popular.
>>14185998
>americans tend to like ONE thing
This is patently false. You are certifiably retarded.
>>14186035
>>14186035
>he takes every statement in a literal way
You are certifiably retarded.
Back to /krg/
>>14186042
Then what's your actual claim, dumbass? There are so many popular super heroes and they are all basically copy-cats of each other. You've got nothing.
>>14186075
>Then what's your actual claim, dumbass?
That in western nerd culture there's a tendency of just sticking to one franchise and making a rivalry up with the other one.
>You've got nothing.
>Star Trek/Star Wars
>Pokemon/Digimon
>Dragon Ball/Saint Seita(in some countries)
>Power Rangers/Super Sentai
>Marvel/DC
>b-but there's people that like both!
Of fucking course there are, people arent that predictable. Of course, that will go over the head of an autist like you.
>>14186314
Your entire argument hinges on a few assumptions
1. these rivalries exist in the majority of fans
2. other countries do not experience what you claim
Essentially, you're full of shit and you have no substantiation. Conclusion: you're an idiot.
>>14182517
Toei's not shackled to Bandai's leg on this one, so they can do anything they want without losing Merch revenue. So it really would not surprise me if they do end up doing an official english release on Amazon Prime.
And like another anon said, whats really stopping netflix from throwing money at toei to get existing shows subbed for the streaming service?
>>14186438
Netflix probably doesn't want to cannibalize any potential sales from the upcoming Voltron reboot.
But then again, Toei isn't really known for exploiting online distribution platforms in the West. At this stage, Tsuburaya's Ultra shows are more likely to end up there.
>>14186495
I think Crunchyroll called first dibs on Ultra.
But im sure if Netflix or even Hulu or something like VUDU threw enough money at them, Toei would listen.
>>14186406
>1. these rivalries exist in the majority of fans
They exist on a considerable amount, as anyone who ever browsed fansites knows.
>2. other countries do not experience what you claim
Countries don't matter that much given these are actual "rivalries" you see on the Internet, again, if you actually browsed any site that has discussion of these franchises, including fucking 4chan.
The pokemon/digimo arises in /a/, /v/ and /vp/.
And the Power Rangers/Super Sentai one appears on this same board.
>>14186935
>>14186960
They are on any site where fictional franchises are being discussed including the one you're posting on. Notice how you are the only one that's questioning this. But, considering you're shitposting and have never been on /m/ kindly fuck off.
>>14187058
You cannot substantiate a single one of your wild claims of these nebulous populations of americans who only like one thing and that the vast majority of them congregate on websites to have fanbase wars because they only like one thing in a genre. You're a fucking moron. Go outside sometime.
This seems as good a place as any to ask, is it true that they stated in an event that Masked Rider eventually defeated Dregon which explains there being a Masked Rider show in Time Force or is it bullshit?
>>14181691
I thought that was just the actors wanting facetime in screen
>>14184677
>Also he never addressed Spider-man, Iron Man and every other hero that wears a mask.
He did in the first place you retard
>>14181691
>This is why in most of their comic book movies the superheroes when in costume they will remove the mask any chance they get.
>>14189643
Except that generally only happens in movies, because cinema tries to promote actors. The same exact thing happens in Kamen Rider all the time. Guess what? It's a common occurrence around the world when it comes to masked characters. Because it adds impact when the hero's mask comes off. Dumb comments!
