what did evangelion "deconstruct" anyway
>>14053455
Anime.
Shinji's mum.
>>14053455
International Jewry
I mean, I'm not even talking about quality of the work, but I just wonder why people keep saying it's a deconstruction of mecha or the genre.
The doujin marketplace.
>>14053455
ur mom lol
>>14053500
Because there's that inherent belief among non-/m/ nerds that all of mecha is the same shit over and over (it's actually not that wrong an assumption, but not everything is generic) and that something daring to be dark was amazing and unexpected, and that it clearly changed anime that came after it forever.
my teen dick
It sorta successfully challenged some of the assumptions inherent to the premise and managed to be generally entertaining with a unique tone.
>>14053549
I take it those assumptions generally came from people who don't watch much mecha tho
though I agree on the tone, it doesn't really deconstruct anything by having a unique tone
Things came tumbling down.
When you deconstruct a building, debris also tumbles down.
>>14053500
It deals with how teen pilots would react to piloting mecha and facing giant monsters better than pretty much anything else out there.
>>14053554
>I take it those assumptions generally came from people who don't watch much mecha tho
Welcome to evafags.
>>14053558
>Zambot 3
>>14053558
Not really. It deals with mentally unstable teens piloting "mechs" that fuck them up when piloting.
That's a big problem I have with the realism thing, it's hard to believe "this is how it would REALLY go" because everyone in that show was a total nutcase to begin with.
>>14053575
You realize that the term "deconstruction" doesn't mean "the first person to do something," right?
>>14053455
If we wanna get ACCURATE about this shit: Evangelion did not deconstruct anything. Not because it did not do anything special, but because people on the internet do not know how deconstruction works. Deconstruction is a critique tool, by definition a work in itself cannot be a deconstruction of itself.
What Evangelion DID do was make Evangelion into a subversion, as well as an impressive character study. Its success and endurance coming more from the latter than the former, truth be told.
A lot of the subversion is surface level, such as making the Evangelions organic rather than mechanical in nature. Or making the operation and maintenance of one something that requires the effort of an international organization and its resources. It only takes 2-3 guys on the White Base to maintain the Gundam and anyone tall enough to reach the pedals can steal it (and they frequently do) whereas deploying even a single Eva is akin to NASA launching the space shuttle.
There is a handful of other stuff there in that vein, but its all cosmetic stuff. Its not even stuff that is 100% unique in that elements of it had been done before, just never in this specific combination and tone. The subversion that really matters is the one that is central to the plot: Shinji's story.
Simply put, Shinji is very clearly introduced as our young protagonist at the start of his bildungsroman arc. We have seen this story countless times before, young man undergoes internal and external conflict and comes of age into a mature adult that coincides with him beating the external conflict and (usually) saving the world in the process.
But in Evangelion, that's not how things work out. Shinji departs on the bildungsroman and FAILS. He does not get over his problems by the end in time to save the world, his internal conflict prevents him from overcoming the external conflict. And the consequences are seriously dire.
Its not often you see the hero flat out lose.
>>14053607
the guy didn't say first though
and I'd argue Zambot did do it better because it had kids which are easier to traumatize
speaking of which there should really be a Mecha Traumatized Kids Social Help
>>14053642
>>14053653
Has the Age of Fatso began?
>>14053639
Won't happen, because Japan doesn't like to admit that mental health problems exist. Its culturally frowned upon to admit you need such help, and risks embarrassing not just yourself but those close to you as well because you needing to seek a professional for grief counseling or whatever means that your friends and family did not 'do their job' and keep you happy and productive.
Its a weird collectivism thing where you are supposed to suffer in silence instead of being a big crybaby and making someone else come and clean up your mess. Which is a pretty fucked up way to treat someone who is genuinely mentally unwell and in need of treatment.
>>14053688
so that explains a lot of traumatized children in mecha
>>14053455
Evangelion is not a deconstruction. The only people who do call it a "deconstruction" don't know what the word means and apply it willy nilly.
It subverts common mecha tropes and used it create a fascinating narrative of "What would happen if literally everyone important was severely fucked in the head?"
It makes sense given the characters backgrounds that they'd all be a bit fucked in the head though.
>>14053610
underrated post
>>14053705
Pretty much, yeah.
No one in Nerv is getting any Therapy because, especially in 90s Japan (it is slightly better now) there wasn't any to be had. Technically Nerv, as an international organization, should have had better psychological care but that's a result of the writing team being entirely Japanese. Realistically, Asuka at least would have had some counseling back in Germany for her obvious emotional issues and traumatic past. Being the one to find your mom's body is sort of a red flag.
A teenage boy stumbles, against his will, upon the controls of a giant warrior built by his estranged father who deems the giant's functionality above anything else. The boy uses the power of the giant to protect those he comes to care for with surprising natural talent, but absconds with the giant's power when he feels he is being used and unappreciated by his new social circle.
This backfires when the giant enemies he's been fighting against make use of his absence, and the boy decides to return to protect the friends he's come to care for during their shared hardships. There is a price, however: the boy is isolated from his peers after his return.
In time, the boy prevails against those designated by his social environment as his enemies, but the price is heavier still: he has to kill the one he feels to be the most closest to him in every way, again, against his will. In the very end he embraces the sweet nothingness of death, but the social ties he's made during his time with his adopted home brings him back to the world, giving his friends the opportunity to escape certain oblivion in the process.
Now, did I just describe the general story of Kidō Senshi Gundam, or Shin Seiki Evangelion?
>>14053610
Shinji only fails in End of Evangelin. And "coincidentally", we only got the ending where he fails after the studio received death threats from fans.
>>14053752
The correct answer is neither, as that's not a correct summation of either plot.
Because the only mecha evafags and others watched is Evangelion
>>14053610
>mechanical to organic
The EVA-units are, of course, lobotomized Ultramen and God Warriors mutilated with cybernetics and used as prosthetics for the pilots. This is not a mistake, since the utility of the piloted giant robot has been, since Mazinger Z, to project and externalize the pilot's internal struggle. This is why EVA 01:s arm breaking feels like Shinji's arm itself is breaking, even as Shinji's arm is actually fine. There is a psychological defensive distance between the action and the pilot, much like the screen between an unmanned drone blasting civilians and the operator of the drone.
This is why the dummy plug is so terrifying: it allows the Earth Federation to use the Gundam without Amuro providing a conscience in the middle, so to speak.
>>14053772
Oh, how so?
>>14053784
>A teenage boy stumbles, against his will, upon the controls of a giant warrior built by his estranged father who deems the giant's functionality above anything else.
Amuro stumbles into the Gundam but then uses it of his own free will. Shinji was lied to, dragged into danger, emotionally blackmailed and all but physically forced into the plug to pilot the Eva by his father. So your first part only describes Gundam, and your second part only describes Eva, and then you conflate the two together to create a false sense of overlap. They both truly have in common that their dads had a hand in the construction of the robot, but you undercut that with too many other inaccuracies to be a legitimate comparison.
You repeat this flaw multiple times in the rest of your post as well, which would require more time than I care to commit to pointing out each and every one.
>>14053820
Ah, you were just being a pedantic jerk. It's not 1:1 allegory, it's general imagery and thematics. Storytelling.
Amuro stumbles into the Gundam, but uses it in panic when the Zakus target it, much like Shinji tries (but ultimately fails) to defend himself against Sachiel.
Hell, Mazinger Z had the robot initially running berserk in town because Kouji couldn't control it. That's what Evangelion is calling back to, the terrible demon inside the hero giant, the terrible monster inside man and the restraint and challenge it takes to be an ethical human being.
>>14053781
>>14053820
Why do you write like this? Are you parodying the typical evageek?
>>14053890
I'm only the second of those posts. I was asked to explain why what they said was wrong, so I did as accurately as I could.
Its not hard to follow.
>>14053455
Ur moms pussy
>>14053890
Write like what?
(It's called literacy)
>>14053743
You'd think someone at NERV would get suspicious when all of the psych evals for their employees shows that several key members, of their staff, from their command staff to their pilots, have severe parental issues and almost all of them underwent at least one extremely traumatic event in their past. At the least, I'd be pushing for someone to replace the coffee machine budget with a part-time therapist.
Shit, knowing NERV, they never did psych evals on any of their staff because the budget for that went to something like making the SEELE monoliths or decorating Gendo's office with the Kabbalah instead.
>>14053976
SEELE's plan I'd to end all suffering. What's happening to us in the here and now is irrelevant
>>14053558
Not a single character was mentally sound in the show in 1st place. And the setting was grimderp too.
>>14053976
Would there even be psychiatric evaluations in a world where super-technology can accurately scan actual souls, scan the destrudo and motivation levels and ego limits and such with 100% accuracy? Where they can CAPTURE and indefinitely HOLD human souls, and plan ahead on how cataclysmic events will erode them for their advantage, like clockwork? Would anyone bother consulting with human beings when they're reduced, mind, body and soul, to mechanistic cogs in the military-industrial machine? Shit, just replace that used personnel with a spare part.
>>14054009
The setting seemed OK if you lived anywhere but Japan
>>14054015
Those crickets or whatever they were would have made me mental, man.
>>14054054
They're cicadas. We get them here too.
>>14053610
>Evangelions organic rather than mechanical in nature. Or making the operation and maintenance of one something that requires the effort of an international organization and its resources
Neither of those are subversions nor unique though.
>Its not often you see the hero flat out lose
For someone who knows as little as you do, yeah.
>>14054064
He's right though, the hero outright failing and the show ending on a giant fuck you is rare. 99% of the time it doesn't happen, because who wants to watch that? It feels like the work is spitting on the investment you had in it, coming across as the work of a nihilist.
At least when Berserk had the Eclipse, it wasn't actually the end.
>>14054115
It does happen a few times, but generally it means the show got cancelled, like Baldios.
Or that you're watching Tomino on a very bad day.
>>14054064
It doesn't matter whether they're 'unique'. There are no original stories do not steal left to tell.
As it stands, NERV operates cybernetic Ultramen that require power from centrally fed energy sources; their actions are dependent on a central command. This is a variation of Ultraman's original limited, flashing sphere energy reserve. The Eva-units become fully autonomous by severing their own energy needs from central control, making the enemy's spherical energy reserve their own.
The Eva-units, or rather the military-industrial complex that created them, is the enemy that aims to and does destroy the world. This is 03. The Angels are a false enemy projected to come from 'outside', when the true enemy is actually endemic within the system.
>>14053610
A work can be a Deconstruction by using its subversive elements to critique assumptions or tropes found in genre work. For example, by subverting the expectation that Scientist Dad Who Gives Protag Control of a Giant Robot has the protag's (or even the world's) best interests in mind, Evangelion is deconstructing the mecha genre's tendency to portray the efforts of that kind of character as noble or heroic or even merely well-intentioned. Gendo did what he did for selfish reasons, and anyone comparing his portrayal to that of other Scientist Dads would see a clear critique of the simplistic motivations of the latter.
>>14053610
Thanks for typing this, I came here to post this.
>>14054011
Because they're not actually using that knowledge to ensure the smooth running of the organization, as evidenced by how everything goes to shit at the end.
![Dai-Guard.26.(Dual.Audio).H264.[AM].mkv_snapshot_18.17_[2015.01.09_02.45.24].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6pXgcgT.jpg "Dai-Guard.26.(Dual.Audio).H264.[AM].mkv_snapshot_18.17_[2015.01.09_02.45.24].jpg")
>YFW Dai-Guard was the actual deconstruction
>YFW when it did it with love, care and not an ounce of cynicism
>YFW it showed that people can be good if given the chance and many of us want to do what is right
>YFW it showed that compromise is best and teamwork will save the day
>YFW Baaaa bababaaaa bababaaaaaaaaa bababarararara
>>14054180
How dare you badmouth us absentee super-scientist fathers! I only abandoned my wife and sons to build my giant fighting machines and train two orphan children for nothing but to fight and defend mankind against eldritch horrors from the Earth's core! Nothing else matters!
>>14054115
>He's right though
No, he's not.
>>14054180
>and anyone comparing his portrayal to that of other Scientist Dads would see a clear critique of the simplistic motivations of the latter
Except of course for all the ones that don't, though I already know that nobody in this has has the slightest idea of what the fuck they're talking about, so you thinking this and everything else isn't surprising.
>>14054217
> nobody knows anything but me
> only I am smart
> you can tell I am right, because I make sweeping generalizations and never provide examples
>>14054193
It's as if it's partially a social commentary on Japan's nigh-nonexistent mental health care and the uncaring national attitudes that lead to alienation and the sarin gas attacks of '95 instead of an attempt to realistically document a manual on how to actually IRL run the personnel of an efficient super-science military base...
>>14054240
>Not an actual argument
>>14054251
Sod off, you haven't provided anything but snide one-liners on how no one actually knows anything, with nothing to back you up.
>>14054240
>you can tell I am right, because I make sweeping generalizations and never provide examples
This is also what you're doing, so I see no issue with this.
>>14054217
>I R SMARTUR THAN U
Okay. As another anon said, a deconstruction doesn't have to be the first to subvert an element of a story; it just has to do so as a deliberate attempt to critique an element that is used frequently (not always) in a genre. In fact, if the element being subverted is an element that has come to define the genre to outsiders and neophytes, that makes it even more applicable to the concept. That's because deconstruction is not about critiquing specific shows, but rather, going after broad characterizations shaped by trends.
Evangelion is considered a deconstruction because it attempted to critique the genre on multiple levels. It was not just a critique of prior character and narrative conventions, but also of viewer habits and expectations.
This shit has been talked about ad nauseum for almost two decades, anon. I know you think you're being edgy by trying to subvert a long agreed-upon consensus, but it just makes you look juvenile.
>>14054305
>Evangelion is considered a deconstruction because it attempted to critique the genre on multiple levels.
Elaborate. Because it really didn't have much to say about the actual genre and was more interested in pushing rei statutes
>>14053610
>Its not often you see the hero flat out lose.
You best be joking
>>14054309
There are literally academic papers about this, anon. You should go look for them, including the ones that analyze how ironic it was that such a savage critique of mecha and otaku ended up defining mecha and NEET culture.
>>14054305
>Evangelion is considered a deconstruction because it attempted to critique the genre on multiple levels
Oh great, it's this bad joke again.
>long agreed-upon consensus
A blatantly wrong one, yes. Just like how the world being flat was a "long agreed-upon consensus".
>>14053610
good post, really putting those tvtropefags to shame
>>14054328
>Just like how the world being flat was a "long agreed-upon consensus".
But it wasn't? When people actually started investigating the nature of the world, they quickly understood that the Earth was round. I think it was a Greek mathematician that estimated the planet's circumference to within a few thousand miles.
An accepted "fact" that exists because no one has investigated it is different from an consensus that's been reached after years and years of discussion.
I don't even know why I'm here defending this. It doesn't need to be defended.
>>14054322
>There are literally academic papers about this, anon
EvaGeeks is not academia
>>14054322
there are literally academic papers about how glaciers are sexist
>>14054342
Consensus=/=fact
Just as a consensus about a fictional work being a 'deconstruction' isn't a fact, so it seems we are in agreement.
>>14053455
"Deconstruct" is a buzz word that means nothing in the context that anime fans use it.
Evangelion didn't "deconstruct" anything, that's just the retarded TV Tropes definition that people use to apply to anything that subverts some of the expectations of its genre (Eva doesn't even do a LOT of subversion, it's mostly just character work) and that doing that somehow elevates it over the other works of its genre.
I like Eva a lot, but "deconstruction" in this context doesn't mean a goddamn thing other than a fancy word used to make a work sound like it's the best thing in the world and should be wanked over at every opportunity.
![Dancouga Nova 04 (DVD) [C240DA7F].mkv_snapshot_00.46_[2015.09.01_04.13.17].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/XZIlIRe.jpg "Dancouga Nova 04 (DVD) [C240DA7F].mkv_snapshot_00.46_[2015.09.01_04.13.17].jpg")
This guy looked sinister in the opening but never did anything evil. Dancouga Nova is a deconstruction
>>14053976
I always thought that everyone didn't really have mental help becauseIt is Gendo's whole plan, I don't thing a stable Shinji would have broken the Ego Barrier, and you can say that Rei is pretty much the panic button should the crazies get our of line.
>>14054791
AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYMEN
>>14054937
EAAAAAAAAAAAAARTHUUUUUU WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILU
>>14054322
>academic papers = truth
>argument by authority
lmao kys my man
>>14053610
>Do I look smart yet?
>>14055266
intelligent response from an intelligent poster
>>14053455
Mazinger and 80's mecha in general. Zambot and Ideon did it way earlier but they didn't get nearly the exposure EVA did.
>>14053455
>what did evangelion "deconstruct" anyway
Nothing. That's just an endlessly repeated meme that people who can't actually think for themselves regurgitate.
>>14053455
>what did evangelion "deconstruct" anyway
It didn't. Unless you're using the pop culture version of the term, which means "masturbation".
>>14053455
Beats me, most mecha anime of that time was dark as fuck (Genocyber, Zeorymer, Detonator Orgun, Tekkaman Blade and MD Geist just to name a few) with weird ass protagonists who aren't your cookie cutter hot blodded young man - The claim of "deconstruct" most casuals will throw at your face.
>>14053716
>It subverts common mecha tropes and used it create a fascinating narrative of "What would happen if literally everyone important was severely fucked in the head?"
But that's pretty much 90's mecha in a nutshell, hell Anno favorite anime were kinda like that too.
Granted, for most westerners they probably think Eva was the first to do any of that stuff.
guys just because Zambot and Ideon did it first doesn't mean they did it better. they have good qualities and I won't deny their importance but it's pretty obvious that Evangelion refined and expanded upon their rough ideas.
>>14055360
Not a single of those posts were talking about quality though.
>Rough ideas
>>14053455
>what did evangelion "deconstruct" anyway
The tale of a young man meeting cruel challenges and in doing so becomes a real man. Don't believe me? Listen to the opening song.
But really, you need to look at it from the perspective of someone living in a highly structured society with enormous pressures to conform (i.e. Japan). It's about the myth of fulfilling one's duties and receiving just rewards (the status of honor). Instead of attaining this magical status, Shinji constantly struggles with self-loathing, doubt, fear, etc. Rather than becoming a "real man," Shinji almost turns bottom-gay (remember this was the 90's IN JAPAN so it was a much bigger deal).
The series is rife with subversion. Religion is a huge one with man literally fighting angels. Mankind doesn't like god's plan so they make their own (not just one, but multiple conflicting) visions of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Even a mother's love is not sacred, being manipulated and used to run giant death meat puppets.
The point is that all these rules, customs, institutions are arbitrary and bullshit when they come tumbling down. I really do love all the symbolism in this series, but an important thing to remember is that you're not supposed to find transcendental meaning in it. If you do, you're missing the point and Anno hates you. The fact is, as the movie says, what matters is that life goes on. The final line of the franchise (pre-rebuild) also subverts this by hinting that life inherently sucks (for some, anyways).
For a perspective where life has basic good (art, beauty, love, etc.) see Rah Xephon.
>>14055375
Are you implying that Zambot and Ideon aren't rough? I'm not saying they're bad, I'm just saying they take a different approach in presenting their ideas in a simpler way, like a fable. They don't really deeply explore the character's inner lives, they just take basic archetypes and thrust them into shitty situations. And I would say that it's because the genre was somewhat young at that point and more constrained by it's MotW format. They're more didactic, I guess, while Evangelion is more nuanced and atmospheric. Not saying that one approach is better than the other.
>>14055420
>while Evangelion is more nuanced and atmospheric
>Read: Still frames and cicada noises
>>14055454
those are things that are in the show, yes, good job, very observant
Oh man I know where this is going, non-stop since 1995.
Short story, semantics and personal opinions aside, is it's often credited with deconstructing both mecha as a power fantasy, and many general conventions of otaku fantasy at the time. Although you see parts of that deconstruction in the beginning, it really starts to take shape around the end of the middle of the series (aka the more "positive" part of it, where Shinji/Rei/Asuka fight a monster of the week+middle school hijinks for some episodes).
Although yes, you can say series' like Ideon did similar apocalyptic themes and analysis' of the human condition, what makes Evangelions' noteworthy is the exact time period it first aired in, where just the way it did things turned many common conventions at the time around.
That's as short, and unbiased a summary as I can type. Whether or not you think it was a good deconstruction or an intentional one, or if the series was good or not or whatever is a debate that's been raging since 1995 and will continue to rage on.
But as impartial a view as possible, that's essentially what Eva did. It was a series that did things in a particular way that happened to make the greatest stir at the time it came out.
>>14054413
A broad consensus about the meaning of a literary work is about as factual as it's going to get. Same with most scientific "facts", actually. Consensus is reached with a proof, peer review, repetition, and corroborating evidence. If you want to overturn consensus that consists of a few hundred thousand pages of internet discussion and several academic papers with a sub-2000 word 4chan post, I don't know what to tell you.Actually wait I do: "You're wrong."
>>14055385
This is the correct answer.Congratulations.
I know I'm probably using this wrong but w/e.
>>14055385
i like this post
>>14055761
That is interesting to think of Rahxephon as the thematic "opposite side of the same coin" to Evangelion. If only the series were a little more focused I really want to love it more.
>>14054200
Fucking REEEEEE man.
>>14054322
That's not an argument.
Post some strong points from those "papers" you are talking about.
We live in a world where David Duke has a doctorate in Jewish Conspiracy from some university in Ukraine.
>>14054180
I don't think it's a crtitique of genre by making the archetype Good fella sinister ,when you consider the whole setting was a sinister as fuck with it's super sinister plot for whole humanity. Tell me one robot show that shows such illuminati plot something as heroic which EVA was "deconstructing".
FFS Astro boy was sold by his scientist father,and is it a coincidance that Gendo look like him? That's a fucking homage
>>14054165
>The Angels are a false enemy
They were since the beginning,m8.
Thinking like that ain't going to change the basic premise of Kaiji Vs Gin trobot drama or make it disappear when it was clearly there.
>>14053455
1. Deconstruction is a term to describe a point of view with critiquing a work. So anyone who says "Eva deconstructed" is literally using the word incorrectly.
2. Evangelion did not bring anything new to the mecha genre. This is a fact. Anything that Evangelion did can be found in previous mecha anime or even just anime. This says nothing about Evangelion's quality, that's up for you to decide. But Evangelion did not subvert or revolutionize mecha in any way, shape or form.
>>14054322
>such a savage critique of mecha
What is there to critique a genre promoting toys ?
If Anno had to,there would had been in-joke where SEELE backed toy companies selling EVE unit gunpla and EVE anime within the show as a propaganda.
There waasn't any thing that showed absurdity.It was such a grim dark setting where by design things are like that,because some big hidden plan tomeant to be execyted by the black monoliths initially. Remeber how they sabotaged an actual mecha?
Have some goddamm next idea next time when you talk about the whole"critique " of genre when anime like Dai-Guard actually do point out the absurdity of the genre than conspiracy jerks of instrumentality cyborg producers did.
>>14055385
Evangelion confirmed for Andrei Rublev of anime
>>14054054
And the train crossing signal sounds.
I still have nightmares.
>>14056860
Eva is the Persona (Bergman not vidya dweeb) of anime you fucking bleb
>>14056867
No,Evangelion is Angel's egg of mecha genre you western dick sucker pleb.
>>14056860
>>14056867
>>14056872
Evangelion is theIDEON + DEVILMANof anime.
>>14056883
Kino of the kino genre!
>>14053455
Gundam would had been considered the same if there were internet and gotten same exposure to similar level of weeabo population in west way back in 1979.
Vice Versa apply for NGE too.
>>14056891
>>14056867
>>14056865
>>/tv/
>>14056910
Gundam and Eva don't work if you flip them, because they were both successful for wildly different reasons.
Eva was successful because it was the right show at the right time to capitalize on a specific cultural zeitgeist and resulting disillusionment in 90s japan. That doesn't work if you did it earlier or later in time.
Gundam was mostly successful because it was being pushed with the force of a toy advertisement, and that toy company was willing to prop up the show and keep it going as a franchise as long as it kept selling models. Remove that backing, and Gundam gets cut short and never makes Zeta or anything after.
>Anno literally said that most of the 'deep'-sounding shit with religious connotations was stuff that he threw in because he thought it sounded cool
Let's not give it too much credit.
>>14057990
Yes, we all know this. But the story still loosely connects through the non-apocryphal use of the Dead Sea Scrolls as the premise to Human Instrumentality. After that it's just borrowed names and titles.
>>14053455
Nothing. People who refuse to admit they liked something that was from the mecha genre always claim the show they liked was a "deconstruction" or "homage".
>>14060311
>tfw facing ttgl fags
>>14055340
>MD Geist
Death Force sure but the original was just fun dumb action in a post apocalyptic setting cause that shit was cool in the 80s.
>>14055872
Xephon's choice of structure and pacing often makes it feel more like a musical composition (notably jazz and classical) than a thesis paper. RX is full of (sometimes vague) emotions whereas most people watching Eva instinctively know that it's making some sort of statement (though not what that statement may be). Watching Rah Xephon as an exercise in compare & contrast to Evangelion might make it more appealing to fans of the latter.
>>14055860
>Tfw you've read this doujin even though it hasn't been translated into english
>>14053598
>>14054009
>>14054246
Someone well-versed in management and/or the military's chain of command critiquing NERV would be funny to read.
>>14060893
I am both, but I didn't watch Evangelion. How do I approach it?
>>14054779
Most of the subersions are at the start of the show. After Shinji's first abortive attempt at leaving NERV, it's dropped pretty quickly in favor of MOTW battles, then Troubled Teenagers with Attitude getting basic therapy via giant monsters and the world ending.
>>14060753
I can't fap when reading in Japanese for some reason.
Takes too much thought to do it.
I am fine fapping to stuff I am watching though.
>>14060904
You just watch it then report back to us
>>14053455
Constructicons are majority-green with purple bits.
Eva-1 is majority purple with green bits.
Thus it is a Deconstructicon.
>>14060946
holy fuck
>>14060753
>tfw you fapped to one of the sequels of that doujin while listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_BmnoU_ARw
>>14060931
Just Eva, or should I watch Death and rebirth and Rebuild as well?
>>14057740
I was talking about exposure and reaction in west.
I don't know if the Japanese fans engage in same faggotry Evageks does.
>>14058034
I think it serves s interesting premise.
It could had been Norse Ragonark project (code geass ahem) too where the entire humanity is on stake due to rubbing some magical shit
>>14061027
All, and don't forget End of Evangelion.
>>14060753
is it a futanari doujin,anon?
>>14061177
The dub was even more direct, but they absolutely did (and I'm sure still do).
>>14061184
Shit, totally forgot about EoE.
And how does it work even? Are the different incarnations sequels, AUs, retellings? In what order do I watch it?
>>14061216
Watch the TV, then Death & Rebirth, then End, then the Rebuilds. If you feel like reading check out the manga sometime after finishing End.
The TV series stands on its own, Death & Rebirth retell + change + add to the TV series and lead up to End, which is an alternate ending to the series (or not).
Rebuild is a AU that tells a lot of the same stuff in the first movie, but goes off the rails starting in 2.0.
The manga is its own continuity.
>>14061199
Nah, it's a trap oneKaname
>>14053455
>what did evangelion "deconstruct" anyway
Nothing at all. Stop reading ANN or Evageeks.
>>14053570
Hey, it was a post from a committed EvaGeeks guy that first alerted me to how wrong my impression of pre-Eva mecha was. He listed a bunch of events which I might think of as Eva-homages, then he wrote something like, "You know what anime that's from? Mobile Suit Gundam." (I can't remember which Gundam he was talking about, probably First or Zeta.)
I was pretty amazed when I saw the first two episodes of First Gundam mention child soldiers and show how Amuro could easily kill people when they're piloting, but not in their normal suits. I thought, "Wow, maybe this is actually a more realistic depiction of teens thrown into humanoid war machines than Eva." But I'd been prepped, even if the Gundam OP reinforced my goofy-70s-cartoon image of it.
>>14054009
>And the setting was grimderp too.
Tokyo-3 was way too cozy to be grimderp, even with the cicadas. Chilling out in Misato's apartment on a hot summer night, eating bento while looking at the skyline through a chain-link fence on the school rooftop. Sure, it's compatible with a dark show, but grimdark can't have even that much nuance.
>>14053455
it deconstructed my taste
>>14054009
>And the setting was grimderp too.
Now you know why someone thought to cross over EVA with wh40k.
Plus it also an has a fanmade RPG made by the good folks of /tg/
>>14053610
This
"Deconstruction" is a muddied term; it gets thrown around a lot because people get the general meaning but not the meaning in this context. "Subversion" would be a closer meaning. Essentially a work of subversion will re-arrange and re-examine almost every element of the genre in which it is placed.
Evangelion flipped the mechanical giant robot trope with biological monstrosity. Instead of fighting devils like in old shows like Mazinger, the Evas fight Angels. Shinji's initial reaction to the Eva suggests they have super robot shows in that universe. The show is self-aware. This is the same as Madoka, which flips magical girls into inevitable witches; the villain IS the cute mascot; Madoka herself spends 99% of the show as NOT a magical girl. I'd argue Final Fantasy VII flips classical RPGs: where classic JRPGs are set in medieval worlds, FFVII is a cyberpunk Blade Runner-esque dystopia. They took the idea of a sword and just inverted it: the Buster Sword's blade takes up the entire fucking thing, there is no guard, it cannot work as a sword any longer but the game knows that.
The common thread here is that subversive media usually hits when a genre has grown somewhat stale or lacks direction; in conjunction with new technologies and philosophies that inform the narrative. Media that hit the mark using subversion techniques almost invariable change their respective medium forever, regardless of how "good" or "bad" the work itself is because it is essentially a rallying cry for new blood and a humility of craft.
>>14064007
>I'd argue Final Fantasy VII flips classical RPGs: where classic JRPGs are set in medieval worlds, FFVII is a cyberpunk Blade Runner-esque dystopia. They took the idea of a sword and just inverted it: the Buster Sword's blade takes up the entire fucking thing, there is no guard, it cannot work as a sword any longer but the game knows that.
You had me until this one. If this is still somehow serious then you're fucking retarded but if not then good job.
I blame tvtropes
>>14064007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0
>>14053455
Gendo did nothing wrong
>>14057990
Anno is known for underplaying stuff in his works.
>>14064052
It's like some people think JRPGs were only Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy till VII.
Besides, VII is just a continuation of the direction the series was going. Literally the first characters you see in VI are riding around in magitek armor.
>>14060946
kek
>>14061216
EoE takes place during the end of the TV show. The TV show ending is internal while the EoE is external. Both are the same events.
Rebuild is a sequel to EoE because of 3.0
>>14061230
What the fuck? Just watch the platinum version or the blu-ray collection which adds the extra scenes from Death & Rebirth into the show.
>>14064007
Teh difference is that those themes run a lot deeper in Eva than just a surface level subversion.
Once you realize
Once you realize
Once you realize
Once you realize
You will face great troubles
But then you must hide your wrath
(I swear by a hundred thunders)
Be the man running a high temperature
The man running a high temperature
The man running a high temperature
And then you will never feel cold
>>14065361
>watch a revisionist version of the show
Really though I haven't seen the blu-ray version of the show, so I didn't know there was any difference.
>>14066644
>revisionist
Da fuck? The Blu-ray and Platinum versions just put the extra footage from Death & rebirth into the episodes they're suppose to happen in
I agree that subversion is more appropriate than deconstruction, considering that Derrida's definition is pure word salad, and tvtropes kinda poisoned the well.
But if there is something interesting in Eva is how much it challenges any definition of authority.
The stoic imposing 'manly' Gendo is a hollow wreck, with not even the ashes of any drive or passion left in him.
The well meaning scarifical mother Yui did it all for her own desires and used both her husband and child for her self-righteous dreams.
Misato, who's the smiling face that's meant to humanize the organization, is not nearly as good of a person as she postures to be, and is just as guilty of manipulating the children as everyone else.
All the good Kaji ever managed to do was not trough being some wannabe Bond, but by being a father and a gardener, and running away to his spy life ruined all his chances of ever being happy
The teachers are a sham, the government are all puppets, the nwo is to powerful and too out there to even be addressed through common means, all competence is sabotaged, all alternatives are dismantled.
The only way Shinji could have ever broken free from this would have been to realize that life isn't a straight line, and that one can change directions without running away. Eva isn't, and never had to be his fate and future, but he got shanghaied into it anyways but all the aforementioned figured.
>>14053455
The super robot genre of kids' fathers giving them giant robots and them going FUCK YEAH ROCKET PUNCH BREAST FIRE at monsters saving the world
Probably the only real "deconstructions" are Dai Guard (on super robots) and the Muv Luv VNs (on "real" robots)
>>14053455
ur mum's pussy
I'd deconstruct Asuka
>>14053500
Because they're idiots and think Anno is some form of god when in reality he's just a hack.
>>14053464
>>14053510
You called.
>>14071540
>>14053524
12 year olds, leave.
>>14053557
But when it comes crashing down and it hurts inside, ya' gotta take a stand, it don't help to hide,
>>14053500
Its because those faggots haven't watched fucking Zambot
Does anyone have that shitty picture with "mecha pilots before NGE and after"?
>>14054322
Anyone, literally anyone can publish academic papers on literally anything that exists and that doesn't exist
>>14055860
Where is the girl in the pic from? I think I recognize the face or is it a doujin artis with too much sameface?
>>14073247
Yeah, but why would you want to? It doesn't have a lot to recommend it over other mecha shows other than being older.
When it comes to critical analysis, its totally valid for a work that did something 'first' to age out of the public consciousness and no longer be relevant to the discussion. If no one involved remembers it, it might as well not exist.
>>14073023
I'd deconstruct your face with buckshot.
>>14073593
I think it's because many say "it's (Evangelion) the first to do it!" as some form of validity.
>>14073150
Stupid sexy dead Eva soul mom.
>>14073848
Anybody got a list of what Eva did first if anything?
>>14074279
This guy gets it.
>>14053598
>everyone in that show was a total nutcase to begin with
So, just like regular people?
>>14075323
*TIPS INTESIFYING*
