How isn't Kira the main villain of Destiny? He's completely delusional and insane in his "enlightenment"
>>14035918
because fukuda self inserts as kira and wants to be perfect and innocent in every way.
Jesus Yamato always right, didn't do nothing wrong
>>14035946
Amen!
And his girl is cute. I like her
>>14035918
Most gundam protags are somewhat villainous when not looking through their eyes/their allies eyes.
Kira is just particularly offensive because he alienates his allies because he's an uncompromising extremist and never really seems to acknowledge that he kills people left and right, spouting idealistic nonsense the whole time.
Other gundam protags either at least have the realisation and have to work to move forward, or are portrayed as brutally uncompromising or extremists of sorts.
>>14035972
Looking back Kira was the only protagonist who never erally does a instrospection to see if what he is doing is really the right thing, he just keeps forcing his view on everyone he meets, at least Heero, Setsuna Flit, his son,Garrod and many others were never under any delusion that what they were doing would be bad for someone
The REAL question is why the Japanese love him so fucking much
>>14035988
I'm no nip, but he appeals to my natural sense of hierarchy.
He and Lacus are essentially genetically perfect and possess the divine mandate - right to rule - won in the only election that matters.
Something in me innately makes me want to genuflect whenever I hear their names.
Shinn could have won the divine mandate, but the strength of his justice was insufficient.
Also plot armor
>>14035972
>>14035981
Guys, the answer is right here >>14035946
>>14035981
That's because his introspection was made throughout *Seed*. Destiny mishandled him and tried to play him flat, since he had *already* gone through his intended arc. They didn't think to give him a new one because Shinn was supposed to be the main character, but he was such an annoying shit-Sue that they had to bring Kira in to save their story. And that's how you get a clusterfuck of a series, by not only mishandling *one* main character, but then mishandling your replacement for him as well (in no small part because you sort of fucked your replacement over when you tryharded propping up your new main character).
>>14035918
>How isn't Kira the main villain of Destiny?
Because he is the Jesus figure of SEED.
>>14036234
>but he was such an annoying shit-Sue that they had to bring Kira in to save their story.
The fuck are you talking about? Kira took over the show because Gunpla sold like shit and Sunrise was riding Fukuda about it. So he figured bringing back the old cast would sell more Gunpla. At least that's one of the stories but I recall it actually being sourced.
>>14035918
I've never seen Destiny, watching it now and am at episode 5.
What exactly does Kira do wrong? It just sounds like he's a wannabe Celestial Being
>>14036270
this bitch overcome Kira
Deus Ex Maxine with jesus christ's plot convenience for god's plot armor
>>14036234
But Shinn only started going retarded when Kira started appearing, before that he was just the usual gundam protag with conflicts and everything, when Kira started popping up he went full retard as a way to become "evil" and make Kira look good but they somehow fucked up even that
His(Fukuda's) wife the main writer had Brain Cancer and couldn't keep up with any dead line I doubt she could have written a decent story, Nepotism is a bitch and she fucked the entire series by not allowing Shin, Who might I add was not liked by Fukuda's wife because she didn't like Shins voice actor and threw a little hissy fit same with Cagalli's voice actor, To develop in any meaningful way. They started off good then it became shit because didnt let Shin develop. It had nothing to do with Gunpla sales which were good at the time ( The Destiny Gundam sold like no ones ever seen) The main problem was popularity(which was caused by a failure to develop characters) and the writer and Nepotism
>>14035988
Homoerotic undertones, being the perfect boyfriend for girls who self-insert as Lacus, the embodiment of "Fuck Yeah Japan" and nostalgia. SEED isn't as highly thought of over there as one would assume.
>>14036479
So, Muv Luv is a catastrophic shit as usual, why do people even like it? The badly made guro?
>>14036443
Ratings were shitty too and improved after they switched back to Kira. Pretty bad for the show they were paying even more for than SEED.
>>14036486
Waifus and harem
>>14036461
>What exactly does Kira do wrong? It just sounds like he's a wannabe Celestial Being
Keep watching you'll see the light sometime
![[Lunamaria] Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny HD Remaster - 22 [BD][720p-AAC][E4CDF445].mkv_snapshot_13.33_[2016.03.21_20.11.36].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hHSvA7m.jpg "[Lunamaria] Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny HD Remaster - 22 [BD][720p-AAC][E4CDF445].mkv_snapshot_13.33_[2016.03.21_20.11.36].jpg")
>>14036234
>Shinn
>worse than Kira
When will this meme end
>>14036461
>What exactly does Kira do wrong? It just sounds like he's a wannabe Celestial Being
He's season 1 Celestial Being and never really evolves past that. Hell, as the show continues his convictions become more powerful [to the point at the end his solution is to police the world.]
>>14036498
When people play SRW Z and L with a translated story...but thats not happening any time soon
>>14035918
Because he won.
>>14036481
>It had nothing to do with Gunpla sales which were good at the time ( The Destiny Gundam sold like no ones ever seen)
Like IBO, some sold while others flopped. There were many Japanese blog posts back when the show was airing about the Gunpla not moving and how something called Bakuseed was more popular.
>>14036503
But I think TESpoiler and some other guys actually gave the srw thread a pastebin with damn nearly everything translated?
>>14036507
>Like IBO, some sold while others flopped. There were many Japanese blog posts back when the show was airing about the Gunpla not moving and how something called Bakuseed was more popular.
True but it wasent bad enough for sunrise to start to get pissy
>>14036509
And how many people will get to see that while they play the game...Im gonna assume not alot
>>14036501
The only similarity he has with S1 CB is that he fights everyone, CB knew that they were terrorists and knew that the eople they were fighting weren't exactly wrong, Kira on the other hand is right every single time he says he is, even when he shot the Minerva cannon and killed a bunch of people there
>>14036514
But it was enough for Bandai. The President of Bandai at the time, Ueno, has said some things about the Cosmic Era that indicate they weren't happy.
> You are correct. First fans are male. In contrast, there are a lot of female SEED fans. Creating merchandise for the female fans will be one of our future tasks.
>Currently, female fans mainly buy the DVD releases and CD's by artists like TM Revolution. There is a need to provide other types of merchandise, which is difficult for a company like ours. We're still becoming aware of the SEED boom's present course.
>Another thing is we would like to create a 3rd fanbase. While still taking care of the current fans, it is important to capture another fanbase. I cannot reveal the exact details, but we are currently working with Sunrise on a new Gundam series targeted towards middle/high schoolers.
And one of SEED's producers, who was a board member at Bandai, said,
>A few days ago, we had company entry exams and many people came in for interviews saying they liked SEED. SEED fans are now entering the work force. Fans like them are important. However, maintaining the current status quo won't allow Gundam to survive another 10 years. We have to create new fans. The new Gundam is for that. We think we will gain new fans with a new Gundam that is neither UC nor CE. Constantly introducing new elements is what makes it Gundam.
This was after Destiny's "success"
>>14036537
Fine but my original point was that Sunrise didnt pressure Fukuda to change the story to sell more gunpla
>>14035918
he didn't kill that Heine faggot
>>14036557
> Fine but my original point was that Sunrise didnt pressure Fukuda to change the story to sell more gunpla
Except we already know that Fukuda will bend the story over for BANDAI when toys aren't selling. Remember what happened when the Buster wasn't selling?
>>14036583
AND! the story of destiny was not chaged due to Toys
>>14036537
Was GBF the series targeted towards middle schoolers they refer to?
>>14036589
We don't know that. After Destiny wrapped up Bandai mentioned it wasn't working and they planned to move onto a new series.
However as Destiny was airing they were still trying to make it the new UC that they could keep going and trying to make fans happy, and fans did not like Shinn (all the message boards and stuff were people hating Shinn for being dickish to Cagalli and Athrun and wondering when Kira was gonna pilot again) and wanted Kira to pilot. The OP1 also got people hyped for Shinn and Kira to fight, except naturally they were rooting for Kira as the good guy there.
>>14036644
GBF targeted younger, they were talking about 00.
>>14035918
Kira fights for the status quo to keep the world the way it is to hope people can get along without having to make drastic changes.
Durandal and Shinn want most powers on Earth to be taken down and for Zaft through the Destiny Plan to control everything, on the believe that people will never change and need to be forced into it for their own good.
This is literally the same argument that's been going on in Gundam since Amuro and Char. And since it's Japan where status quo is king, the "hero" side is always the one advocating that nothing drastic change. Much like how the narrative is on Amuro's side in CCA.
Sure not everyone in the audience will agree with this, much like how Zeonfags support Zeon and think that Earth should be colony dropped and everyone forced to come into space because the Federation sucks and won't ever get better. But that's them.
>>14036484
>, the embodiment of "Fuck Yeah Japan"
This is key. Orb is a Japan insert and in Destiny thanks to corrupt politicans is put in the line of fire. Kira and Cagalli refuse to forsake them, even if it causes other's trouble. Shinn and Zaft think Orb sucks deserves all the destruction it gets and the world would be better off without it.
Is it really that shocking the mostly Japanese audience prefer's the guy that's on the side of their country?
>>14036589
Are you freaking serious? Bandai owns Sunrise. Bandai makes Gunpla. If Gunpla don't sell, there's nothing stopping Bandai from demanding changes to the show because they own the studio making the show.
>>14036498
Despite being such a raging asshole most of the time, you do get the odd glimpse of Shinn being a good kid at heart. He's just very angry, and misguided to the point where that rage is directed in the wrong ways.
Had they not pushed him aside at the end of the series for FLAWLESS VICTORY, or had they ever made that CE movie, they could've redeemed him in some way. Knowing Fukuda, it would be Shinn taking a lethal blow for the Lord and Savior, but it would be something.
>>14036498
Shinn a cute. A CUTE.
>>14036744
nah, if anything, one of the freedom's blasts should have destroyed his fucking dead sister phone and take away that shitty voice message too for maximum suffering and edginess, only to get btfo
>>14036786
Me and my little brother laughed at the phone scene
It's just so fucking baffling that some refugee little girl would stop running from a battle for the sake of a mobile phone, risking her life and her families
It's even more baffling that her little bro would go out of his way to pick it up
What was on that fucking phone that was so important?
>>14036801
boyfriend's number obviously
shit, his family got killed because of that, why the fuck would you run straight where the gendums are duking it out?
>>14036770
I want to give him headpats
>>14036744
Thing is Shinn's empathy is very selective. If his family or sister issues are triggered then he'll care, but if not he gives no fucks. It's like why he works out that the two guys Stella always hangs with are also extendeds and the pilots of the other stolen Gundam's, but doesn't care and kills them anymore without a thought.
>>14036683
Destiny is a show about promoting xenophobia.
According to Fukuda, Shinn was meant to represent the youth of Japan at the time. Check this quote:
> Miss Morosawa once said that children these days are confused about the information given to them.
> Mitsuo: I have thought of that too. Because they don't understand their own situation and when they are fed with a large amount of information , they get confused and used.Also will confuse other people's wishes as their own.I think Shin is this type of character.
Basically, Shinn is the youth that has turned his back on the traditional Japanese way of thinking. Rather than falling into line with what his society expects of him, he lashes out at it and starts listening to what the leader of another country says. This results in him hurting not-Japan, and his redemption comes with him falling back into line.
And if Kira IS Fukuda's self-insert, then Destiny is basically him telling kids to listen to the adults. Not to mention, Kira's last name is Yamato after the dominate ethnicity of the Japanese.
The traditional Japanese way is championed by this work, with ORB soldiers blindly following their incompetent leaders orders because the Japanese way is to make your boss look good. And to the Japanese, their deaths come across as tragic while to American sensibilities they become moronic. This system is never challenged or called out, instead it's salvation comes with someone deemed "good" being in charge.
Never mind that Orb's idea of tolerance sounds like it practices cultural assimilation ("anyone can live here if they follow our laws and ways") as it's solution to racism.
>>14036786
Without the cellphone as a memento, Shinn has nothing to remind him every day of the loss of his family. Without that constant reminder, the rage he exhibits in Destiny doesn't manifest as strongly, he never becomes motivated enough to succeed at the ZAFT Academy, and best girl becomes the pilot of the Impulse and MC of the show.
As MC, she seduces Shinn, Athrun, Meyrin, Stella, Kuzzy, both captains, both Lacuses, Meyrin again, and ghost Flay. She shoots down the Freedom, defeats the EA and Orb on multiple occasions, and becomes known as the Pink Devil.
>>14036859
that at least sounds more interesting than what we got
>>14036846
In the end, the show tries to say that Japan's, I mean, Orb's ideals will save the world. Never mind that all of the leaders we've seen have broken said ideals whenever they could benefit from it, or how all the political power rests solely in the hands of the royal family (making it more a principality rather than a constitutional monarchy). We're never supposed to question these things because that's Fukuda's ideal version of Japan. This is one of the reasons why Destiny went over worse in America than it did in Japan.
That and it sucks.
>>14036645
I think Destiny soured people on Kira as well, if the SRW Z treatment is any indication.
>>14036846
This sounds like it's against all of Tomino Gundams core ideals. That you should question adults and their leadership.
>>14036503
In UX, Destiny's story is non-existent. So Shinn becomes the big brother of the Fafner pilots, especially Kazuki. And he did a good job of it. Kira barely do anything in the game that contributes the plot or other characters.
That's another one to the list.
>>14036895
Well there's the fact that the "good" leaders in Destiny, Cagalli and Lacus are also kids.
In fact the whole struggle with Orb is whether to stick to the traditional ideals, like Cagalli wants to, sell out to EA and reap the benefits of being in with Logos even if it means doing evil things like Yuna, or whether they should give up on the country and either be destroyed or be conquered by Zaft like Shinn and Durandal want to.
Oddly they do none of the, since Cagalli takes over but also pretty much ends their neutrality, having AA join the Orb army officially and ally with anti Durandal forces to take the war to Zaft (as opposed to Seed's 3rd party fighting all) and after that being part of whatever order they set up after the war.
Where as Cagalli getting Orb to go back to the old Uzumi ways never happens. She pretty much gives up on that after 28.
>>14036859
>Lunamaria
>shooting anything down
>>14036936
When Cagalli does send the Archangel to oppose Durandal, she monologues about how Orb's ideals have to save the world. She hasn't given up on her father's way at that point because she still wants them to guide humanity and is probably using ZAFT trying to conquer Orb as a way to say she isn't breaking said ideals.
After all, while Orb says it will not attack another nation it also says it will not allow itself to be attacked. The Destiny Plan would fit as an attack.
And IF Lacus was Morosawa's self-insert, then it defeats the purpose of her being a kid. Not to mention how much an influence Lacus was on Cagalli (just look at her "wisdom" in the hot spring. "Decide what you want to do, then do it" while showing images of their fathers both dying. And that's ignoring that Patrick Zala began the purge that killed her father because of Lacus's actions, and how Uzumi's death was a pointless sacrifice.)
>>14036480
Even before Kira showed up Shinn was unstable and flipflopping as to who he was and wasn't nice to, if the story wasn't outright ignoring him whenever there wasn't a fight for him. He'd bonded with Athrun opened up to him and then suddenly hated him again for no apparant reason next episode like 3 times before episode 23, which was when Kira started appearing in every episode.
You'd never even realize Shinn was supposed to be the lead if you didn't have ads and the OP, aside from him piloting Impulse based on the amount of story he gets even before Kira shows up.
>>14036975
>And IF Lacus was Morosawa's self-insert, then it defeats the purpose of her being a kid.
Ok....but she's still a kid though. She's not even 20 in Destiny. Acting wise beyond her years is common in anime, but as far as the story is concerned she is a kid, while the evil adult leaders are the bad guys, even though she and Durandal could be the same age for all their srs monologuing.
>>14036832
Hes one of the few trained soldiers, his job is to kill people. Most others protagonists are unwilling civilian boy thrown into gundam.
>>14036479
>>14036486
>>14036490
I'll admit, Abicion, your persistence is really admirable. If only you used it for something actually productive.
>>14036985
>as far as the story is concerned she is a kid, while the evil adult leaders are the bad guys, even though she and Durandal could be the same age for all their srs monologuing
And just to confound matters still further, despite her age the entirety of the PLANTS population will eagerly follow what they think is her direction and ignore their own adult political leader, even when he's calling for the same thing.
>>14037039
>I-it has to be samefag
>Multiple people can't hold those opinions
>>14036936
Shinn never said anything about attacking Orb until they spent most of his "on-screen" military record surrounding him with guns and then harboring terrorists.
When he actually got to Orb, he went to visit the memorial of the people that died, instead of "man, fuck Orb and everyone on it".
THEN immediately after they leave, Orb basically sells them out to a ship-sinking mobile armor waiting to destroy them.
Then they spend a lot of time and energy trying to sink them until they get completely blown out
I don't get this series, because if we're trying to show Shinn off as wrong for disliking Orb as much as he does, then maybe they should have made his opposition of them a little less black and white. Even if he didn't hate them because of his past, he'd have no good reason to think any better of them, because they've spent most of the series trying to kill him.
And I'm not going to tell you that "Durandel was a good guy until bad writing", but Orb's certainly given ZAFT a lot of excuses to start shooting at them.
Maybe this series was sunk from the start. It's so dedicated to trying to have the old cast face off against the new one, that we don't bother developing or creating newer characters and have to make leaps and bounds to make it happen. And it doesn't help that we have the old character's importance to the series bigger than it really should be.
The second battle of Orb is a complete fucking waste of time. Lacus shows up and says "I'm the REAL Lacus. Gilbert is bad, Logos isn't solely to blame for the war. But Djibril is bad too!"
Of course, nobody answers for why he was in Orb or got away from there, but yeah!
>>14037073
>because if we're trying to show Shinn off as wrong for disliking Orb as much as he does
He shuts Cagalli down every time he invokes her failure to protect the people, so I don't think he's supposed to be in the wrong.
>>14037073
And while I'm at it, isn't Gilbert supposed to be a genius? Isn't he supposed to be pretty conniving?
Shouldn't he have had a plan ready in case the very-not-dead Lacus showed up to ruin his plans? She could have shown up and pulled the plug at any fucking moment, shit, she could have went on TV as soon as the assassination attempt was ruined.
So why is he so flabbergasted when she shows up on TV?
>>14037049
Who are you quoting?
>>14036985
And never mind that according to supplementary materials, Lacus spent her time after the war creating Terminal. Her organization actively spies on each other faction, hands out the information it obtains to other faction leaders, and steals weapons tech (including stuff banned by Treaty) for their own personal use. If anything, the espionage part of that would weaken peace within the Cosmic Era as it destroys any sense of trust between factions, and encourages military build-up.
Not to mention these spies are posing as members of each faction, committing treason in the name of Lacus. If they ever get caught, they can easily be sentenced to death through a court martial hearing. That is, if they're even given that due to being a spy during a time of war.
Granted, if the DOM Troopers are any indication Terminal is nearly cult-like in their devotion to Lacus. Death must mean nothing to them.
And who is funding all this? Orb. Orb, the nation that is supposed to be neutral is funding espionage against other nations. Not to mention, hiding the stolen Freedom and AWOL Archangel.
Terminal would help explain Andy recognizing ZAFT's newest models when he's supposed to be hiding in Orb.
>>14036443
He was at the beginning, people thought that Shinn was a little shit who needed to get the shit beaten in, and cheered whenever Athrun punched him.
>>14037149
Then Fukuda went too far with this, and Shinn became the Slaine of his day.
>>14037149
Shinn reminds me of Kamillie a lot
Rhetorical question here, why do we love Kamillie but hate Shinn?
>>14037158
Kaille got proper development.
>>14037157
At least Slain was supposed to be competent.
>>14037164
Saline got forced competence in S2 out of nowhere but he was a blithering retard on a higher scale than anyone from Seed or Destiny before it. Shinn was extremely competent at killing people.
>>14037157
Not really Slaine is the most popular character of his story to the point where Aoki and Aniplex are eternally under damage control mode about his treatment. That AZ was planned to be that way from the start. Not at all like Shinn who essentially lost his position as MC perhaps due in part to his unpopularity.
>>14037176
I wouldn't call Slaine a retard just insanely unlucky, and loyal to person who ruins his life simply by being around him (I'm not even joking before the damage control started Aoki had said that Asshime was a curse and that Slaine would actually be better off without her).
>>14036486
the pilot suits
>>14037244
Aoki wasn't calling her a curse. It was Slaine's self destructive obsession with her he was referring to. Slaine was freed from that way of living, but he wasn't manipulated or controlled by anyone to do what he does unlike other protags, he made his decisions on his own. Also, Aoki stated he likes the princess and characters like that in newtype. You know how nips are with pacifism.
>>14037149
Shinn wasn't annoying early on. The only people who thought that were made he was going against the old cast.
>>14037158
Kamille develops while Shinn arguably regresses by the end of the series.
And even Kamille's full ragetard moments (mostly concentrated at the start of the show) are much more entertaining than Shinn's.
>>14037149
Shinn was on top of the Newtype polls until they threw him under the bus.
>>14037158
Because for all of Kamille's faults, he does actualy have SOME growth.
Shinn is a confused mess of a character and the series tries to play off that they're going with some direction with him, but ultimately nothing really clicks together because there's really nothing underneath the hood. We run off ideas that had barely been established at various points because they're writing at the seat of their pants
Rey helped Shinn with with plan, so I guess Shinn defaults to everything Rey tells him to do now!
Gilbert is manipulating Shinn and making him an obedient dog! Outside of the generic-get-out-of-jail-free card that many other protagonists have gotten, and lying about what Athrun was up to, Shinn gets a FAITH badge and uses its status..once? To go into a fight. We never get a moment where Gilbert is filling Shinn's head with nonsense or trying to get him to abuse his FAITH status for his own gain. I don't even think they ever really interact much after that.
In this world of Kira's, Athrun's Lacus's and Cagaili's Shinn doesn't have any higher connections or some sort of higher breed of Coordinator. He's a pilot and could be replaced by anyone, really. He's not being used more so than anyone else, not on the level of being used like Meer is.
If they were trying to go with that, then they should have had scenes where they're trying to make him a symbol of ZAFT, like a Char or a Gato or something. complete with some sort of silly nickname.
>>14037225
Shinn was really popular. The writers just self inserted as Kira/Lacus.
>>14037326
Shinn the angry comet!
>>14037326
>>14037330
He wasn't Gundam forums at the time bashed his character regularly.
Also
>Newtype polls
>being an indication of anything
>>14037326
Shinn's just the badguy because Kira and Athrun need to beat someone up at the end of the series, and that's pretty much it.
Hey, ask yourselves this question. Why does Shinn believe in the Destiny Plan? How does this tie in to his personal history? Because ZAFT is doing it, and that's it really. Shouldn't Shinn feel some sort of internal struggle about a weapon that's about to blast an island of civilians and see that he's chosen wrong? Is this the same guy who went out of his way to save Stella? The same guy that saved these enslaved villagers? Shouldn't there be at some sort of conflict with himself over aiming a big laser at Orb, which would probably make more people like him?
Nah, fuck that.
Not that him and Athrun's battle dialogue is just Shinn shouting and screaming and Athrun telling him he's a dummy. There's not anything deeper than that because Athrun hardly spent any time with anyone on the Minerva in the first place, and these guys don't have any real chemistry together. Say what you will about lolTomino, but I could at least get the idea that Kamille respected Quattro on some regard, and if he got mad at him, there was something REALLY wrong.
I guess you could say that he's a misguided protagonist, but that's just retroactive bullshit. They didn't know what they were doing, and they had stock-footage of I-Justice beating up Destiny, so that's what we got. The series doesn't bother trying to justify how characters end up from A to B, they just do. That's how we go from Rey doing anything for Gilbert, to him being Rau's Ghost and Kira breaking him down enough that he'd go and shoot Gilbert (how convenient, because now Kira doesn't have to do it!) Didn't Rey say earlier in the series that he didn't care about how he was a clone of Rau? Was he lying then?
I think that there is a place for a MC like slaine in a series.
A low born nobody who is treated like shit but is still loyal till reality drop kicks him in he face and the royalty does something that proves itself unfit.
Then he connives and manipulates and BEASTMODES his way to the top of the food chain in that empire while trying to win a war against an opposing enemy who threatens their way of life/monarchy.
And the opposing side is JUSTIFIED in warring against his side and he not only knows that but knows that he can't actually oppose their treatment without ruining his own plans.
>>14037355
I like Shinn, but only the barely official fanfiction SRW version of him. In series, he's stuck between the rocks of wasted potential and a mess of a character. I always find it hilarious how now Sunrise pushes him as the main character of the series now that his voice actor is more popular than before.
I don't think he's the worst character in this series, but I can't say that he's a good one in the context of the series.
>>14037354
I was at plenty of the Gundam forums. People roughly took sides on which set of characters was better.
And I'm pretty sure that the Newtype polls show which characters are popular, or at least the ones that the the readers want to vote for, it took several years for Kira to stop showing his face on it.
And even if, "the character isn't popular!" isn't an excuse for trying to haphazardly drop a character so you can push another and try to play catch up with scripts.
Maybe they should have thought twice about putting the new character at ends with the old ones, or perhaps with better writing, they could have toned it down a little.
I mean, would Zeta Gundam REALLY have been better of the ol' White Base showed up to replace the cast of the Argama? Would ZZ Gundam really have been better if we had Kamille get his brain back and become the main character again?
I'm not saying that shows have to chase after ever plot thread and can never drop any, but can dropping major character ever result in anything other than a mess?
>>14037381
Those Shinn x Setsuko pics never stop being adorable.Even the lewd ones
>>14037354
Gundam forums are more irrelevant than nip polls.
>>14037381
Kira was banned, wasn't he? For taking top place all the time.
>>14037381
>Kira is still on the newtype polls
Fucking how? Seed is like 10 years old, kids probably haven't even seen it these days.
>>14037330
Shinn was not that popular. He wasn't quite as hated as he ended up being intially because people were willing to see what was up with him, but people still prefered Kira by far and Shinn's popularity dropped to rock bottom once it was clear he and Kira would never be allies.
Shinn then became somewhat more popular years later because Suzumura (who was a literally who when Destiny started) now is and VA popularity can instantly make a character beloved.
>>14037225
Slaine was kind of like the anti Shinn. The staff really wanted Inaho to be the popular loved character and he wasn't, so they started throwing Slaine under the bus to make Inaho look better.
The also basically wrote Asshime out of the story as a character in her own right instead making her a comatose plot device until the show was almost over, again so Inaho would get more focus.
>>14037427
Remasters were aired on TV, iirc. My guess is that he has some really desperate fans who want Sunrise to know they still are hoping for that movie.
>>14037453
>they still are hoping for that movie.
Never ever gonna happen lol
>>14037415
But they are a snap shot of viewer reaction to the series.
Newtype is irrelevant because it's popularity polls aren't a good indication of anything because they're broken.
>>14037381
I was on several forums and he wasn't, people were just annoyed with him, even Shinn apologists did so under the belief that he'd change.
>>14037428
Asseylum had to be written out in order for Slaine to have his machiavellian development, not for Inaho's sake. With the way they wrote him, he'd never go down that road if she were alive and well. Same reason Cruhteo had to die just as he accepted him and was about to work with earth forces to rescue the princess with him.
At what point did people start turning against Kira anyway?
>>14037428
Well it's true that Slaine is an anti-Shinn, in that they wanted his actions to seem bad, but when you take everything into account he was actually pretty damn reasonable, and the reasoning behind his actions not involving Asshime made sense.
Asshime was planned to win with very little effort from the start, and for a s small period they attempted to depict her as the truest heroine who made hard choices up until the Nips viewers started portraying her as a villain. So yeah in a sense it is like a reverse GSD, the staff wanted Asshime and Eggs to be the new Kira and Lacus, or at least Relena and Heero, but they failed to be relevant in the minds of viewers.
>>14037529
I don't think they were trying to make Ass/Egg THE main pair ala Kira/Lacus. They were just shifting around teasing Ass/Slaine as well, which ended up being far more popular but the writers never settled on one and just admitted she only saw them in a platonic way near the end.
From lurking 2ch threads for this (male) otaku were fervently supporting/shipping Inaho and Ass up until the NTR happened to their self insert and Aoki joked about it. Seriously, there was a LOT of NTR pains in the threads there and they even still happen a whole year later. There was actually a lot of bashing/joking on Slaine there before the final NTR not unlike the divide in western fanbase. And then they got sympathetic to him once they were in the same boat. Fujoshi/female fandom on twitter was a different story, though. I still see a lot of love for Inaho/Ass in those circles. But no character was without criticism leveled at them, really.
>>14037515
Most of the western fanbase never liked him from start, even when he was undeniably the good guy in Seed.
They hate him even more because for a short while it seemed like Shinn, who was everything Kira wasn't was gonna take over and prove Kira's ideals wrong, only for Kira to hijack the show.
But really, either you hated Kira since Seed, and hate him more in Destiny (or you were meh about him in Seed and hate him in Destiny) or you loved Kira from the start and are fine with him in Destiny.
That's how most fans are. I can't really think of any that really liked Kira in Seed but started hating him in Destiny.
>>14037468
Well, we can either agree to disagree, or we can play opposite day and talk about the forums we went to being more true than the others.
I went on the Gamefaqs Gundam Boards to argue about this shit almost everyday, and yeah, he had fans, not apologists.
>>14036519
>even when he shot the Minerva cannon and killed a bunch of people there
Correction he shot the cannon and killed a bucnh of the Minerva's crew because they dared to defend themselves from Orb/EA forces attacking them with an entire fleet.
God forbid Orb face any consequences when you can just murder other people so they can keep on being self righteous douchenozzles.
>>14037653
They never intended to tease Ass/Slaine they only did it because it was popular.
Something to understand is that Nip reaction =! Western reaction, the Slaine bashing was solely just a western thing, Nips on a whole though loved him not just the fujos. It was to the point that even Inaho's voice actor lamented about his character's lack of popularity, case in point Inaho never received his own solo spread, hell Asshime and Inaho only have one spread together, Inaho himself got zero solo spreads promoting the show and neither got figurines until very late, while Slaine had released during the first cour. So yeah Asshime and Inaho both together and apart aren't popular.
At the end of A/Z people often depicted Asshime as a villain, still do actually. And the staff also had to go full damage control mode, to the point where had an entire event where they had to assure viewers that the ending wasn't so bad for him.
>>14036683
The funny thing about the Japan instert is that the Japan in CE gets absolutely buttfucked before the series starts.
Volcanoes and earthquakes galore and all the rich people fucked off and left the rest to rot so they could make Galts Gulch "Island Edition
>>14035918
I don't remember this happening.
>>14037728
>Gamefaqs
There's your problem. I was on the actual Gundam Seed Forum, as well as a general mecha, and Gundam forum. So yeah I'm not joking when I call them apologists.
>>14037039
>Abicion
Who is Abicion? I have started hating Muvluv since that earlier adaptation and when I actually played the game and saw that it wasn't as great as everyone kept saying it was
>>14037145
>Terminal would help explain Andy recognizing ZAFT's newest models when he's supposed to be hiding in Orb.
Also how he got Gaia to to customize so he could pilot it
>>14037099
>Cagalli is crying
>>14035972
Bellri did nothing wrong.
>>14037748
The only "blight" upon SEED's Team Genetic Übermensch is that Kira and Cagalli's biological parents were just ordinary civilians and they were not actually fathered by Uzumi Nara Atha, and thus they're not actually royalty from Orb.
Otherwise the Second Battle of Orb would be even more like pottery than it already is.
>>14037653
>SureAse 1194 results on pixiv
>InaAse 363 results
>I still see a lot of love for Inaho/Ass in those circles.
Also wrong, I see much more Slaine/Ass shippers on twitter.
Interestingly, in the original outline of the story Inaho and the princess fall in love and Slaine doesn't really care much about her. I find Shimura's bias towards her ship funny, you can see it in her art, she shipped InahoxInko and SlainexAsseylum and was really disappointed.
In any case, the NTR was planned from the very beginning and Aoki went the route of "everything is up to your own interpretation" to give shippers more room.
>>14037756
You're literally doing the "my board is more legitimate thing than yours!" thing I was talking about.
>>14036503
There's a near translated Let's Play on Something Awful.
Anyone else really enjoy the early episodes of Destiny?
When does it get bad? The episodes surrounding the Julius 7 drop are actually pretty fun, and showing Shinn and Athrun working together clearly demonstrates that initially the writers were planning on developing Shinn.
>>14037488
>Same reason Cruhteo had to die just as he accepted him and was about to work with earth forces to rescue the princess with him.
Nice fanfiction
>>14038436
The early episodes is why everyone is usually riled up about how the series ended up in the first place.
I mean, if those early episodes were just trash, would anyone have cared about GSD all that much? I mean, fuck go look at those episodes again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAFWsKDt98E
They make the Zaku Warrior look like a goddamn beast. Shit, even Lunamaria gets shit done, until they made her a mobile turret and then forgot that she could pilot at all.
It's a nonsensical shame how this series ended up so awful
>>14037428
>The staff really wanted Inaho to be the popular loved character and he wasn't, so they started throwing Slaine under the bus to make Inaho look better.
Anyone who watched the show can tell you this is bullshit
>>14038447
>that part where Athrun trashes a Gundam in just a zaku
Glorious
>>14038488
Before that, he shoots out the sword of a GINN while aiming from behind the ZAKU he's piloting.
Wasn't that supposed to be original intention of Destiny?
Because Durandal points at death laser at earth while all Kira does is point a disabling laser at Durandal, well and a gun too at the end but we know he can only throw those.
>>14037728
>I went on the Gamefaqs Gundam Boards to argue about this shit almost everyday, and yeah, he had fans, not apologists.
The TSA lives on even now.
>>14037515The moment people self-inserted into Sai.
>>14038617
sick burn.
>>14038436
Once they decend to earth is when the fights start going to shit, Shinn begins his eternal loop of starting to develop, then instantly reverting next ep, and is when the plot stops really doing anything significant for a long time.
You really can tell they didn't have a clue what to do when the middle of the series is pretty much Minerva traveling from Zaft base to Zaft base, for no real apparant reason, just so EA can attack them over the ocean and Kira can join in.
>>14037099
For all his rage he never really has much of an arguement beyond "You weren't strong enough to resist an EA invasion and I hate you for getting invaded."
Any good points he could make like Orb's double dealing with EA, he never does, and can't because he doesn't know about it, and with surrender not really being a safe option for Shinn's family either, given that Azrael wanted all Coordinators dead, and Orb's actions ending up saving the world from being blown up, and he comes off as an irrational asshole who's just lashing at whoever he can because can't deal with the fact that his family was doomed from the start.
It doesn't help that he doesn't care when Athrun points out all them lost family and friends too, his insignificant in the grand scheme of things, especially when Shinn is supposed to be Japanese and putting the good of the system and society above the individual is what they're all about.
He's like the people blaming the US government for 9/11 (not the conspiricy ones that they they did it, but that they should have caught it and stopped it) because they can't deal with the fact that family died on their own soil which was supposed to be completely and totally safe.
>>14037745
There was a divide in nip fanbase, I know what I'm talking about based on what I observed while it was airing. Western fanbase isn't unique. For example, if you think Rei/Asuka wars in the west are bad, you should see how venomous it gets on 2ch. Same thing with AZ despite the relatively small fanbase. Nothing is really exempt from criticism with nips, especially on 2ch.
>>14038133
I didn't mean the pair, I mean the characters and their ships with Slaine, sorry it was unclear. It seems like compared to the main three everything else is ignored. Slaine/Asseylum is indeed more popular than her with Inaho.
>>14039140
>I didn't mean the pair, I mean the characters and their ships with Slaine
Oh yes, you are absolutely right in that case. I've seen the same on those sites.
>>14038440
But he's right.
>>14036479
>>14036486
>>14037039
>>14036490
>>14037285
>>14037049
>>14037839
Alright, let's tear into Watanabe yet again:
https://type94.wordpress.com/2016/03/24/anime-anime-tetsuya-watanabe/
Watanabe: Of course I have to mention the battle scenes. But I don’t want that to be the whole story. As the novels progress, the memorable story of “Lise’s way of life” starts to come out, so I hoped to portray that well. I also wanted to show Iris and Theodor’s growth. >I wanted to portray Iris, the perfect woman, and Theodor, who looks up to her and tries to catch up to her. Coming up, there’s a scene that is kind of like a love scene between two robots.
>I wanted to portray Iris, the perfect woman.
Iris confirmed as OP-Mary-Sue/Self-Irsert/Wish-Fulfilment.
>>14039983
>>14039460
>>14039140
>>14038133
>>14037745
>>14037653
>>14037529
>>14037488
>>14037428
This is sadder than SEEDfags still crying over Destiny.
>>14040107
Why? People are having a pretty civilized discussion about both anime, why is that sad? Its far better than just flinging shit like chimps
I mean Kira wasn't shown to always be flawless and right. The show seemed to toss the idea that maybe Kira intervening wasn't a good thing at first.
In 23 it's just like Seed with Kira heroically disabling everyone and Meteor playing, and then Heine dies and the music cuts and we see everyone's pissed at him.
In 28, Kira gets no heroic music this time and quite a few shots make him and Freedom look sinister in them. And then right afterwards Kira and Murrue discuss that maybe they're going about it the wrong way, which is why they deploy to Berlin to try to save Zaft.
The problem is Morosawa and Fukuda thought they were trying to be clever and seemed to have a "is Durandal evil or legit?" running for most of the show until finally going "Nope he was evil all along".
Problem is it was obvious to anyone watching that Kira would never be wrong at the end (it would be popularity suicide) just like how nobody watching actually believed Kira died in 34.
Fukuda doesn't seem to realize how genre savvy audiences are. With his tweet about the most important thing being the sudden survival of a character and not how they did it because the shock of a character being alive is the important part, except for the fact that nobody with a brain will ever expect the main character to die before the end of the show so it's not surprising at all.
>>14037355
>The series doesn't bother trying to justify how characters end up from A to B, they just do.
Isn't this more or less how Fukada writes shows? I mean look at that Cross Ange interview about how he described this exact process word for word and acted like it was something he should be doing on all of his works. I'm pretty sure half the staff was pissed about this too boot but he got away with it anyway. Really I've come to expect this on anything he writes because he LIKES doing this for some inane reason.
There's no understanding why he does things like this, even here, because he doesn't WANT to be understood, he just wants to jingle keys in peoples faces and expects them to be OK with it.
>>14040199
Now that his wife has passed away I wonder if anyone will even care to hire him anymore
>>14036486
Muv-luvfags are just the highest tier of waifufags.
>>14036503
>"when people accept my headcanon about him"
Get over it. Shinn's a piece of shit character.
>>14040946
That's more like official fanfiction.
Now speaking of bad/good protags, what made Heero better then Mika? I know why Mika as a whole sucked, but I'm going tobingewatch Gundam Wing.
>>14041770
Heero was a total robot like Mika, but he at least grew and developed the ability to emote rather than become even worse. Oh, and he was a complete autistic fucking sperg, too. He crash lands on Earth after getting tackled by a grunt suit piloted by Char, washes up on shore, and one random teenage girl that happened to find him on the beach sees his face, so he then immediately flips out and hides it, then attempts to commit suicide but was stopped by his suit being shorted out by the ocean. Then he breaks into the girl's school for no apparent reason other than to dramatically tear her confession in half and say he's going to kill her, shoves a broken rapier through some random asshole's mask, then break into a military base with the ambulance he stole from two random doctors he beat up, and proceed to blow it and the Wing up for no apparent reason only to get thwarted by Duo with a handgun. He then wakes up in a military hospital and jumps out of the 50th floor window, falls asleep, and opens the parachute at the last second, breaking his leg. Which he casually snaps back into place shortly after. And that's just the first few episodes.
Mika was just a boring unlikeable little shit. He's basically Reccoa, but pretending to be Heero badly.
The difference between the two is like Kamille and Shinn or something like that.
>>14042207
Heero knows when he fucks up and regrets it.
>>14042212
Mika doesn't understand the concept of fucking up.
>>14042207
man i need to watch wing again. sounds more crazy when you describe it
>>14042207
You said Wing was bad /m/
This sounds fucking awesome
>>14035918
You retarded bro? History is written by the winner.
Is this an actual game of pool? Where all the balls are one colour? Is there a rule set I'm unaware of or something?I know, >kissanime. GSD isn't worthy of my hard drive space though
>>14042372
Yes there is. That gentleman is playing a game of snooker.
>>14042425
Huh, I thought pool and snooker were the same game
Thanks anon, learn something new every day
>>14042207
I agree with most of what you said, but his suicide bomb shorted out because Dr. J didn't want him to kill himself.
![[EG]Gundam_Wing_BD_40(720p_10bit)[313F386E].webm](https://i.imgur.com/nUfsFRs.jpg "[EG]Gundam_Wing_BD_40(720p_10bit)[313F386E].webm")
>>14042207
Heero's just Jotaro, he never says anything because he spends the entire time thinking up shitty one liners only he and Trowa could possibly find funny or cool. Like his "here's your receipt" scene there, or the bit where he hijacks the white fang shuttle to break into their base and pretends to have been attacked, then when the operator asks him to confirm how many survivors there are he just replies "there are none" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpjKS35WZkI starts playing and he crashes it right into the base making the entire plan pointless. I always assumed Zero puts him up to it and that's why him and the desperately chuuni Zechs are the only ones that can properly use it.
Even in EXVS he has them for half the cast, to the point he's more of a 00 character than Setsuna is, like when he beats Ribbons he says something to the effect of "I don't believe God needs to exist, so if you say you are God, then I don't believe you do either" or having more banter with Nena about why he's talking to his gundam and not her than even Kira and Athrun have with each other.
>>14042498
>Heero just wants to look cool
This is the best theory.
>>14042207
Wing was so entertaining.
I think what this thread has been getting at indirectly is that the reason SEED is bad is that it is literal Japanese propaganda that states only conformity and blind obedience is acceptable, while questioning the perfection of Japan is dissident and a byproduct of the foolishness of youth.
