Victory
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Why does Tomino hate it ?
It is easily among his most consistent, high quality works, it's like zeta but without an unlikable main cast, quite the opposite actually.
He should be proud of it really
>>14031043
I believe the Victory making period was the highest point of Tomino's depression so he doesn't have good associations with it.
>tomino
>not shitposting irl
![[EG]Victory_Gundam_BD_22_(1080p_10bit)[61B3CBD3].mkv_snapshot_15.44_[2016.03.18_21.57.42].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/OzM9VdD.jpg "[EG]Victory_Gundam_BD_22_(1080p_10bit)[61B3CBD3].mkv_snapshot_15.44_[2016.03.18_21.57.42].jpg")
>>14031043
Maybe he didn't like how wacky it came out
>>14031124
There's something perfect about how tits are drawn in Victory
>>14031043
because of the merging of sunrise and bandai? or maybe not
>>14031043
He doesn't like that period in his life and the production of the show. There were some moments in the show were he was very clearly pushing it but I have to agree with you, it's definitely in my Top 3 Gundam series.
>>14031043
I would guess that he doesn't like the end product, and he's embarrassed because it's probably not what he wanted and he thinks he could have done a lot better (hence the "do not watch this" statements). I don't know if he's a perfectionist, but he even went so far as to completely re-do Zeta Gundam's ending with the ANT movies. If possible, I don't think he wouldn't do a series of Victory Gundam movies. But he probably wouldn't want to.
>>14031181
> I would guess that he doesn't like the end product, and he's embarrassed because it's probably not what he wanted and he thinks he could have done a lot better (hence the "do not watch this" statements
This is true of Tomino and all his shows as far as I know, not just Victory. He said he wasn't happy with G-Reco for the same reason as an example.
> but he even went so far as to completely re-do Zeta Gundam's ending with the ANT movies
As far as I know he made them because Sunrise asked, not because he wanted to. He gave the movies a new ending because he no longer liked the original one or felt it appropriate. He's a work-for-hire director and as far as we know hasn't wanted to make any of the Gundam show his name is attached. And G-Reco is the only one he went to Sunrise to make. Even then, it was an original work and made a Gundam one as a stipulation from what we know.
>>14031124
Tomino fucking loves wacky though.
>>14031043
>Forced project by SunDai.
>Inserting giant motorcycles and shit.
>Tomino loses his shit and kills majority of the cast.
>>14031255
See, I always hear people saying he wasn't satisfied with G-Reco but in the two interviews I've ever seen translated he seemed pretty happy, and he even personally had a cameo, so I've gotta wonder which it is. There's obviously the whole shitstorm surrounding the show, so knowing what's true and what's bait is difficult - do you know anything more specific about it yourself?
>>14031368
>Tomino loses his shit and kills majority of the cast
Why would him losing his shit be a prerequisite for that second thing?
>>14031371
He says the show didn't live up to his expectations (outside the animation) in the Nolife interview (visible at https://nekketsunikki.wordpress.com/2015/08/16/nolifes-tomino-and-yoshida-g-reco-interview/). The word the translater used is failed, but putting that aside since I don't care whether the show failed in his or anyone else's opinion. he can still be perceived to be negative regarding his own contribution in this interview. He wanted more episodes, he wanted hand drawn, he wanted to put across stuff that isn't there and so on. Tomino doesn't like any of his shows and Victory is no exception in that regard. It's not the interview I'm thinking of, but it gets the point across.
>>14031413
Ah, I see, thanks!Tomino is too good for this world.
Victory is my top Gundam, I always laugh at how Tomino fucked toy makers with:
>dragon mobile suit
>centipede mobile suit
>tire mobile suit
>motorcycle ships
>>14031413
>he wanted hand drawn
ANd the anime is hand drawn.
>>14031043
>Why does Tomino hate it ?
He doesn't. People just take a joke he made out of context that was a reflection on how he felt while executives kept meddling with the show's production.
Like others said, I think it just brings up bad memories of that period of his life.
>>14033160
source
>>14033160
>>14033182
Thank your for your voice of reason in the wilderness, Anon. This sounds more like a certain book which asks you not to read its ending.
>>14031413
He does think that he thinks that G-Reco will be more fondly regarded in the future though.
Sounds very much like a "i get to praise it if people like it and if they don't then i can't" kind of guy.
>>14031043
>his most consistent
No one can honestly think this, can they?
>>14031043
>It is easily among his most consistent, high quality works, it's like zeta but without an unlikable main cast, quite the opposite actually.
Your opinion is invalidated because the subs out for it aren't accurate at all. How the fuck can you make your stance when the translated script makes is entirely off?
>>14033160
>>14033182
So what is the actual translation of this?
>>14034224
>the subs out for it aren't accurate at all. How the fuck can you make your stance when the translated script makes is entirely off
Because some of us aren't dubfags and have learned bits of Japanese over the years. Besides, the BDs have accurate subs and that's more than enough.
It was really shit
>>14034344
the big text at the top says "This isn't something that should be watched, so you shouldn't buy it!"
From what I've heard, the guy was under serious constraints when making the show and didn't have much creative freedom. There aren't many creators who look upon such works fondly.
I loved Victory Gundam but I was always slightly embarassed at admitting it since I remember the plan of Zanscare being insanely stupid and basically their motivations made little to no sense outside of "wanting to rule earth and stomp everyone"...
Years later I keep reading the subs were bad, so I'm very curious to see if one of the villains truly said that they wanted to turn people's brains retarded (actually he said infants) with the Angel Halo.
>>14034419
>the BDs have accurate subs and that's more than enough
no they don't; they are just grammatically correct, but it's mostly gueslation. They are still just cleaned up [HL] release subtitles. The entire series is full of "oh I heard a few common jp words I recognize, I'll just make up most of the translation"
The source of the subs is the same as the old ZZ subs, aka hong kong dvd subtitles. When the Daisuki subs for zz came out there, it was shown just how fucking terrible the translation was when entire scenes came out had completely different meaning because the dialogue was off.
>>14031043
It had great characters but that was it.
Low production value, sub-par mecha design, unclear and often inconsistent theme and message. The plot made some pretty strange turns.
Not Tomino's worst work by FAR, but I think F91 and Victory both need to be retconned if any more Future Universal Century work is to be created.
>>14038052
>Low production value, sub-par mecha design, unclear and often inconsistent theme and message.
I'll give you the plot one but this has to be bait. Are you claiming the production value was low based on the lack of shading? It was lower than 0079 or Zeta perhaps but it couldn't have been much different from ZZ. The mecha design was top-tier, fight me. The message was that adults are fucking stupid and always try to get kids caught in their wars (this was said specifically to the LM old men, even Katejina's betrayal counts although she seemed kind of fucked up anyway), blindly following leaders, even savior figures, leads to destruction (same shit as Seig Zeon but now with Heil Zanscare, also check out everyone following Maria while ignoring the terrible shit the group did), general war is bad shit (the grenade suicide guy, the Kaserelia guy he met in space and later fought, that couple who killed each other iirc, just to name a few), and of course, hope that mankind can change.
Stick to meme of the month. Victory is not hard to understand in the slightest.
He only really likes 0079
This is the first time I've heard that the subs aren't accurate.
>>14038105
baka yaro = these fucktards, among other things depending on what the translators were feeling like that day
>>14038066
Was not baiting. The mecha design is the second worst in UC besides ZZ Gundam. Gundam's that dock not only look stupid, but also waste my time with assembling scenes, but also make the writers feel comfortable with letting the Gundam's get absolutely clobbered and then Deus Ex Machina saves the pilots core fighter because reasons. Although I will admit, the first few times Uso flew the boots into people it was pretty hilarious. Also beam rotors are stupid and wheels in space.
In terms of production values, yes art matters, animation quality matters, sound design and quality matters. The story getting flipped around to sell more V1 Gundams, while not Tomino's fault is an issue with the show.
Theme/Message
>DAE newtypes good oldtypes bad?
Sorry gotta try harder with that one. That message is beaten over your head since 0079, but 0079 did it better than victory. Zeta, ZZ, CCA , Unicorn, F91(F91 sucks also) all have that theme in common, except those go out of their way to explore the nuance in the Old vs the New, but these series also explore the possibility of changing the word through pacifism, how that only understanding can lead to peace, coping with loss and forgiveness, being able to accept a collective even if some people are bad, and the power of the individual to affect the world.
I think that Victory did have some sort of theme, but was ultimately unable to successfully convey that theme because of the horribly muddled plot. While some characters had interesting and 'fun' developement, they didn't actually lead to any conclusions.
For example, Katejina progresses as a character, starting as a sleeper megalomaniac and progressively finding herself drawn to the weak will of Chronicle. I am unable to draw and conclusions about all this crazy women symbolism. They were going for something with making Marbet pregnant and making tons of female pilots to protect Uso. Maybe it's "Love your mother" but even if it is it's stupid.
>>14038075
Well it is one of his best works.
>>14038052
Oh, boy, F91 was a piece of shit. Almost like it doomed Late UC from the onset.
I liked the mecha designs for the most part in Victory. It does have stupid shit like Doggorla, though.
>>14038183
>The mecha design is the second worst in UC besides ZZ Gundam.
ZZ still doesn't have that many bad designs. Absolute shit taste.
>Gundam's that dock not only look stupid,
Are you seriously saying Victory looks bad? You have the epitome of terrible taste.
>but also...
Welcome to 70% of Gundam. Tough shit.
>Also beam rotors are stupid and wheels in space.
Yes, it gets crazier/sillier than most UC does. That's still subjective and not really a factor of quality.
>In terms of production values, yes art matters, animation quality matters, sound design and quality matters.
Consistently on-model, barely any stock footage, beautiful musical score, and it is good quality. The shading is really more of a meme than anything, it gets better as time goes on and doesn't impact your viewing experience at all.
>The story getting flipped around to sell more V1 Gundams, while not Tomino's fault is an issue with the show.
Story didn't change much if I recall.
>Newtypes
Didn't even mention this, are you high? Victory did an alright job of it, anyway.
>changing the word through pacifism,
Which protag are you thinking of? Uso spends a lot of time on this subject. He's 13 and he is fighting a war at the age regular people start learning that war is more than "kill bad guys". He even goes as far as to say he wished he had been raised to be a dog of war so he wouldn't have to know how terrible the conflict is.
>how that only understanding can lead to peace,
This is discussed.
>coping with loss and forgiveness,
Remember that time Uso kills blind Katejina for revenge? Oh, no. And if any Gundam is about coping with loss, it's fucking Victory.
>being able to accept a collective even if some people are bad,
Holy shit it's like you didn't even watch the series. See the "war is bad" part. All of those were people from Zanscare. They were even going to rescue a Zanscare cleaning girl at one point. They had no grudge over factions.
>>14031054
How did Tomino get over his depression anyway? I want his ancient japanese secret.
>>14038288
He discovered the secret to a truly lickable anime pussy, which is also why Happy-Tomino waifus all look so fucking amazing.
We just need to get the info out of him before he dies and we'll have a new golden era of anime
>the power of the individual to affect the world.
Guess you missed Shakti's arc and everything to do with Angel Halo. And Reinforce Jr. I guess; their relatively small sacrifice was the beginning of the end for enemy forces.
>I think that Victory did have some sort of theme, but was ultimately unable to successfully convey that theme because of the horribly muddled plot.
Give me the themes of Gundam, Zeta and ZZ and tell me that Victory doesn't fit any of them.
>While some characters had interesting and 'fun' developement, they didn't actually lead to any conclusions.
>For example, Katejina progresses as a character, starting as a sleeper megalomaniac and progressively finding herself drawn to the weak will of Chronicle. I am unable to draw and conclusions about all this crazy women symbolism.
Maybe that's not symbolism, it's just her character you dumbfuck.
>They were going for something with making Marbet pregnant and making tons of female pilots to protect Uso.
Tomino wanted to make you feel like shit and show that war sucked by killing off Shrikes. Marbet's kid was a new hope for the future. Both of those developed Uso in some way. Was there an overarching "mother" theme behind it? Yeah, it practically revolves around women. Villains are mostly women, Shrikes and Marbet, Bikini Assault, the matriarchy cult that is Zanscare, Shakti, two villains acting overly motherly, Angel Halo powered by a woman returning victims to an infantile state (that one is a stretch) and so on. I want to say that the lack of any adult males (I mean, Oliver was basically the only one to have focus until they get to Gehennam) emphasizes that it's old men, kids and women (all usually civilians) fighting, which says something about the constant warfare and degradation of society at that point but I can't be absolutely sure. And you know what? It doesn't need to be. Victory shows all aspects of motherliness, the good and bad. Each of those things actually matters to the plot in their own way. It has a motherly theme. Tomino was writing a TV show, not a psychological discourse. Come back to me when you can explain ZZ's obsession with little girls.
You didn't watch the series or you're too ADHD topay attentionand this is coming from someone who has ADD something fierce. I won't argue that the plot does some weird shit as a result of Tomino's depression and hate for Bandai but it's still a solid entry to the franchise.
>>14038075
He doesn't like any of them. Any time he's asked to say which show he liked or disliked working on or the the most in interviews he always says all of them or none. He's never given any other answer to my knowledge.
>>14038013
>no they don't; they are just grammatically correct, but it's mostly gueslation.
No it's not.
Post a few examples
>>14037999
No, that was right. Fonse Kagatie's goal was ultra genocide. He'd convinced Maria that she could use Angel Halo to make Earth's people peaceful.
The peace OF THE GRAVE
>>14038183
>They were going for something with making Marbet pregnant and making tons of female pilots to protect Uso. Maybe it's "Love your mother" but even if it is it's stupid.
Oh no that one's actually pretty simple
Every woman in Victory barring Marbet and Shakti chooses to purvey death, and therefore they die (except Katejina who just gets a BAD END). This holds true both for the heroic ones and the villainous ones.
Marbet and Shakti choose to be agents of life, not death, and therefore live. It's pretty much spelled out in the scene where Fuala is literally unable to comprehend Marbet's pregnancy because of how far down the death road she is.
Basically: life is brown.
>>14038874
>Fuala is literally unable to comprehend Marbet's pregnancy
This will never not make me laugh. Uso's "she's a woman!" followed by the Haro eye catch is just sweet.
Do you think Marbet becoming a more efficient killer because of her pregnancy muddles the message a bit?
>>14038183
>beam rotors are stupid
You invalidated your entire post in one phrase, good job.
>>14038283
>He even goes as far as to say he wished he had been raised to be a dog of war so he wouldn't have to know how terrible the conflict is.
I think this was the moment I realised Victory is my favourite gundam series..
>>14039053
>Do you think Marbet becoming a more efficient killer because of her pregnancy muddles the message a bit?
She would have butchered the entirety of Zanscare herself hopped up on pregger hormones if Usso and the others didn't keep on trying to protect her
>>14039630
I'll never understand why Victory haters always have to shit on Beam Rotors. They're incredibly useful and versatile pieces of technology:
-allows MS to enter atmosphere without the need for special equipment (e.g. ballutes)
-provides a means of flight in atmosphere that is powered directly by the MS reactor thus reducing the need for propellant
-can be used defensively (as a beam shield) or as an offensive weapon in a pinch.
Yet the first thing a Victory hater will say is some variation of 'Beam rotorz are TEH STOOPIDZ' Why? Not enough Zaku-knockoffs for them?
>>14040906
>Hizack with a beam rotor
I AM THE MIGHTIEST IN THE UNIVERSE
>>14031043
>it's like zeta but without an unlikable main cast
Compared to Zeta, i somehow felt some sorta warmth around Victory's characters (Most of the League Militaire part that is). They really felt like a bunch of good adults in contrast of Zeta's which is a bunch of pricks.
>>14040906
I don't give a fuck about beam rotors and how it works, what I care is it creates many amazing fights in early victory episodes.
>>14040920
It's probably the fact the Victory cast tried to help each other out from the outset, got on well and were friends. Zeta's cast were in a massive "us against them" situation and still hated each other and took their slightest thoughts out on each other whenever they could. The first indication of actual friendship between Kamille and much of the crew is him giving them some films they asked him for when he returns from Hong Kong. It always felt very forced and weird to me.
>>14040948
>It always felt very forced and weird to me.
One of the best things in Victory is Odelo, he appears as a hothead kid but he really grew to become one of the most likeable sidekicks I have seen in a long list of shows.
>>14035514
We should petition Rightstuff to put a translated copy of that when they release the series.
I personally like to think Victory would have fared better if it aired after Eva, but then it would have a bunch of people going on about how it "deconstructs" gundam.
>>14040948
Of course, the old men were trying to turn Uso into a soldier from the outset. There was some pretty intense grating early on but it all worked out.
>yfw Wing, of all shows, has the track "Wings of a Boy Who Killed Adolescence" when it fits Victory much better
>>14041084
>Eva
I don't care much for Eva but airing after Eva would have been an absolute death sentence for something like Victory.
Victory is very old-fashioned in its narrative structure and animation style, whereas Eva epitomizes a lot of trends that came to influence contemporary shows (for the worse, imo)
