Gargantia
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You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
What did /m/ think of this show?
>>14023647
Excellent although the epilogue OVA was mediocre as fuck.
>Mazuru is SRW never
>>14023647
Personally I liked it. The whole atmosphere of the show is really comfortable and fun to watch, Chamber is amazing and the show is surprisingly tightly written. Despite being a relaxed pace, it doesn't waste much time and no episode is truly filler.
I want more of it, personally. They did some nice worldbuilding but we have only seen a tiny corner of their world, and there are lots of problems that remain unsolved.
As for /m/, even tends to agree that Chamber was great but lots of people complain that the show was too slow for them. I suppose they wanted more battles, which the show almost drops entirely afterthe first couple of episodes firmly establish that there isn't anything on the planet that can realistically pose Chamber a threat.
There are other complaints as well, like people bitching about specific lines or dialog or how the twist "has been done like a thousand times", but these are generally highly exaggerated or purposely misrepresented for the sake of trolling. Its sort of a credit to the show that even the trolls have not found much of a grip on anything to complain about.
Its not very long, so if you are on the fence I would say set aside an afternoon and give it a watch. I wasn't expecting much from it and it turned into one of my favorite shows.
>>14023679
I actually just finished it and was curious to see what other people thought. Even if a lot of it wasn't new, so much of it was well done that I enjoyed it anyway. My only complaint is that I would have liked to spend more time on Kugel's fleet, the dystopian element was interesting but not explored very deeply. Also wanted more Ridget because she's fucking perfect.
>>14023647
As with every show that has themes meant for people over the age of five, /m/ seems to hate it in general.
I didn't mind it. Wasn't 10/10 best anime ever tier, but it wasn't bad.
It's pretty.
Chamber a bro.
Can be boring in some parts.
Pirate women is waifu tier.
>I wanted to meme text my post
>>14023703
Amy is a miracle of the universe. A love interest actually done right.
>>14023647
Surprisingly good.
>>14023719
In that case, you are all sorts of in luck.
There are 2 'extra episodes' which are normal length, and a 2-episode OVA.
The first extra episode is basically just a not important episode of Gargantia that explore their relationship with other fleets, and heavily features an extended Ridget flashback.
The second episode is Kugel arriving on Earth and turning the Kugel fleet from a bunch of pirates into what we saw it as under Striker.
The OVA sets up the plot of what life is like for Ledo after the series ends as he is now without Chamber.
The extra episodes sound right up your alley, and the OVAs are pretty good too... though they will leave you itching for a second season that we can only pray for at this point.
>>14023679
>There are other complaints as well, like people bitching about specific lines or dialog or how the twist "has been done like a thousand times", but these are generally highly exaggerated or purposely misrepresented for the sake of trolling.
You mean how they can't kill the murdering rapist pirates because it'll harm their reputation, but it's fine to destroy all of their weapons and humiliate them because that won't affect their reputation at all?
Also, those pirates would logically be dead anyway, right? I know show writing convenience makes showing mercy to them pay off later, but those guys made their living with armed banditry and the protagonists destroyed all of their weapons. What were the protagonists expecting the now-helpless pirates to do after that point? Starve?
>>14023755
>a second season that we can only pray for at this point.
>he doesn't know what happened to the second season
>>14023771
They were expecting Ledo to go over and scare the pirates off, not massacre them. A few deaths is one thing, but totally annihilating the pirates is something else entirely.
Besides, this was only the tip of a larger pirate fleet. The fact that Ledo could annihilate everything they dedicate to that raid and still come back later to totally overwhelm the Gargantian forces means that your entire 'destroyed aaaaaaall their weapons' argument falls really flat.
I liked it. I haven't seen Meguru Koro Haruka or whatever it's called yet, though.
>>14023784
I know they said they would release it as a LN instead of a second season, but maybe if the LN does well we will get a second season anyway. LN's get adapted to anime all the time.
Its not especially likely, but we can hope.
>>14023755
Second season was canned and turned into a LN.
>>14023647
Better than AZ
>>14023806
The "larger pirate fleet" that does come and attack them later (also with no success other than the fact that Ledo is told not to kill them this time), and later ends up enslaved by Kugel. What, to you, indicates that there were still more of them or that they were any threat? How come the big bad pirate fleet doesn't show up to save their enslaved comrades from Kugel?
>>14023845
That's an understatement.
>>14023850
He's talking about the initial pirate raid, the one that gets vaporized.
Very imaginative setting (waterworld done right), fun characters (Chamber is awesome), comfy as fuck music, and plenty of twists to keep me watching. I honestly loved the fish out of water theme the early episodes had and the slice of life episodes and I didn't even care I wouldn't see another large scale space battle again like the opening. I absolutely loved it and would definitely place it in my top 10 favorite mecha anime.
It's good, relatively short and fun. give it a try
>>14023736
Only Saaya, Ridget, Amy, and bellows were waifu tier. Fempirate and Melty were definitely slut tier.
>>14024006
Mayta was waifu status.
>>14023647
Looked good enough to make me wanna see the sequel, too bad it won't happen.
It's pretty average, The only reason why it gets some attention cause urobuchi did some writing for it.
>>14023647
>>14023647
It was fun. It had its problems and all, but it was just good fun.
Chamber is the broest of bros and Amy was fucking cute and worth fighting for.
>>14024442
nah. character designs m8.
Comfy.
I want a big plush Chamber to cuddle.
Very good if you excise the dance scene. Beautiful visuals, and well-justified and executed take on the fish-out-of-water scenario. I especially like that he had to derive the language over time.
>>14024017
>not Pinion with his hair down
Shit taste.
>>14024543
>excise the dance scene
>>14024627
Not that anon, but I agree it was dumb. Like, "we're worried there isn't enough fanservice, so the characters are going to literally jiggle their asses in your face while Ledo is trying to have an important conversation."
Would you live on the Gargantia?
I would.
For the girls/women of course.
My only lingering question of Gargantia is that is the mecha are not only capable and great at acting fully autonomously, why do they even have pilots? I mean the mecha are capable of forcefully ejecting their pilots against their will and just fighting solo.
The pilot just seems completely unnecessary and I don't understand why they're present.
>>14024938
Shh, don't think too hard or else everything falls apart.
>>14024656
It was literally the last scene before Gargantia turned into a horrible mess, and stopped being one only in the finale.
Still as ill fitting and hilariously awkward as it was, I can kinda see it as Amy trying to hit on Ledo. And it worked too, you can see from his face that he just popped his first boner and is really confused about this strange new sensation.
>>14023647
Chamber is literally the only good thing about it
>>14024938
>The pilot just seems completely unnecessary
Sounds like Hideauze thinking soldier. With how pro-human the GA are they probably stick humans in fully capable autonomous mecha only because muh humanity.
Also probably because the AI isn't that creative honestly. Chamber basically listened to whatever Ledo said, while Striker just continued what Kugel was doing before he died.
>>14024938
>why do they even have pilots?
Because they can't act properly without human guidance. Look at Striker. That was literally the point.
>>14023679
>>14023901
Mein brethren
>>14023647
liked it. better than Waterworld.
>>14024938
Because that would just make the mecha more Space Hideuze.
Well, that's the obvious reason. The real one, of course, is thatotherwise all those pictures would have no one to go to
>shit mecha designs
>closest thing to a likeable character is MC's computer
>subtext verges on propaganda
Nice tits, though.
>>14025346
Here's that reply.
>>14025377
best fanart yet
>>14025383
>>14025166
They're already on their way to Space Hideauze, as Chamber pointed out. The ranks of pilots we see in Ledo's flashbacks all look remarkably similar, and Chambers' comment about the number of hours served by Ledo indicates he was enrolled in the military at birth. Humans of the Alliance are treated as parts for a machine, not as people. It's possible humans are still needed just because of some pattern recognition abilities.The real reason is just that Chamber still can't solve a captcha.
>>14023647
>Chamber a bro
>Some of the MC's character development was pretty good.
>Potential that it didn't really do anything with.
>Lots of slice of life, but in a setting that wasn't that interesting, with characters that weren't that compelling.
>Amy a shit
It's okay. Decent. Could have been more.
>>14023647
I liked it a lot. Fish out of water stories are always fun.
>>14024542
It was all right, although slow as fuck at some points. Nanaharu's art and Chamber being great carried it for me. The ending on the main show is great. Saaya and Ridget were eyecandy as fuck (well, all the ladies were but those two were my favorites) and so were the Pirate Ladies.
I still need to watch the OVAs.
Didn't think that much of it. It's not a show I liked, but it wasn't a show I was going to enjoy in the first place. When It was first airing I dropped it about episode 3 and then picked it up again episode 9 when Hiduzine is people episode happened. I can't call it bad, it did what it wanted to successfully enough.
>>14024938
I always assumed that the GA accidentally made Colossus. Who then thought it was a better idea to have lots of individual AI's then a true collective AI mind.
>>14026099
>I dropped it about episode 3 and then picked it up again episode 9
>now I'm going to tell about the quality of this series
>>14026147
What a retard.
>>14026147
You realized I watched the 6 episodes between 3 and 9 when I picked it back up right? Not everyone, thinks jumping in at random points is a good idea.
>>14023647
Lukkage and her slaves needed more airtime.
>>14026398
Saaya has nicehair.
Amy kills it in that episode so much though.
>>14026400
She reminded me of adiane
Are there any other characters like this?
>>14026427
Hilda from Outlaw Star.
>>14024938
If you notice, the AIs have absolutely zero initiative of their own.
If you tell Chamber to do something, he will do it. And he will keep doing it until it is done, after which there isn't anything for him to do and all he can do is ask for orders.
If he is halfway through a mission and the mission goes FUBAR, Chamber would still carry on as if nothing was wrong and still attempt to complete the mission until someone told him to retreat.
The AI's are really good at carrying out orders, but each of them still needs a baby sitter to update their commands in real time in response to the battlefield situation and changing priorities. This is likely by design, as the AIs are for pilot support, not pilot replacement.
Striker was capable of fighting without Kugel, but Striker was also incapable of accepting new information or changing her course of action without a pilot. There is nothing Ledo and Chamber could have said to make her drop Kugel's plan, because those were the last orders she was given and she was not accepting new ones. This would have eventually ended in disaster even if Ledo had not shown up and crashed her party, because I don't think Kugel gave Striker a detailed enough plan to cover what to do if Striker actually managed to succeed. After unifying all of the fleets... then what? Stand by, and await further orders?
> I mean the mecha are capable of forcefully ejecting their pilots against their will
Did he really?
> Ensign Ledo, what do you what to do?
> I want to defeat Striker, but I also want to survive and go back to Gargantia
> [PROCESSING INTENSIFIES]
Only then does Chamber bend the rules to eject Ledo and suicide attack Striker without him, accomplishing all of Ledo's stated objectives. It was bro-tier as fuck, but even then he was just following orders.
>>14023647
Boring. Great concept, but squandered by cowardice in the end. The big cop-out wasKugel being dead. He really should have been alive. When it turned out to be an AI, all moral ambiguity was utterly lost.
Also, there's really not much that's interesting about the world. In fact, the proposed idea for season 2 was 'a female pilot crashes, and meets a young man'. It was Season 1, only genderswapped!
>>14026650
That and a bit creepy.
Also the AI having THAT MUCH agency is stupid bullshit no matter what.
Chamber and the mecha should be two seperate entities, not one in the same.
Chamber being the mecha and not just his AI partners that keeps watch over him and lives on his person is a bad judgement call.
The ending where chamber chooses to sacrifices himself to fight her then die?
It was satisfying but it felt wrong somehow. Like he was never in control of anything in the series period.
>>14026663
Yeah, the idea is that Ledo should be taking control of his own life...But he isn't, really! He's acting according to what he's been dictated to live by. He doesn't even get to choose to die.
>>14026650
>He really should have been alive.
If he was it'd be the same. The OVA shows that Striker didn't twist Kugel's ideas of how to run things, he did it himself.
>It was Season 1, only genderswapped!
Actually the season two protags are from the land countries at war with each other.
>>14026663
>>14026702
Chamber was Ledo's dad. The last episode is him saying "I know you can do things by yourself now, you have a job, a girlfriend, you don't need me to do things for you anymore. Time to spread your wings son."
>>14023647
poor ecchi
sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Was the full version of this ever released?
>>14023901
>Very imaginative setting
>I absolutely loved it and would definitely place it in my top 10 favorite mecha anime.
Jesus fuck that shit taste.
>>14026747
REEEEEEEEEALY interested in this.
>>14023647
>Characters were boring/forgettable
>World is poorly explored
>Story is dull
About the only thing to get out of it is Chamber and tits, if Urobuchi's name wasn't on it people would shit on it as much as Captain Earth and only fap to the character designs.
>>14026755
So articulate. This must be a man with incredibly refined tastes. Do enlighten us anon, what should I like instead? Free me of my shit taste
>>14026763
And this is why /m/ is so shit
>>14026763
I take the opposite stance. Its a perfectly fine, if not especially exceptional, show that people pretend to hold to a higher standard so they can complain about Urobuchi.
No one who likes Gargantia ever mentions Urobuchi in relation to it, but everyone who has a bone to pick with Gargantia can't stop talking about him.
>>14026763
Same breed of retards as the grectals who worship tomino
>>14026747
Nope.
But I remember seeing a more "full" version of it. Surprisingly, it wasn't lewd at all, they're not bottomless or spreading pussy(as one would assume) or anything.
I suspect they cropped it like that on purpose. So that viewers would go "where's the full version goddamnit!?"
>>14026763
>Captain Earth
>bad
>>14027336
>captain earth
>better than mediocre
>>14027356
I'd call it around average quality for anime, even if I really enjoyed it. It had quite a few problems but the characters were likeable enough and the animation/battles were good enough to make it worth watching.
>>14027376
It had some very good moments, but overall it was all over the place, both in terms of tone and story. Animation was pretty good too, but it's bones, so no surprise here.
>>14026835
>No one who likes Gargantia ever mentions Urobuchi in relation to it, but everyone who has a bone to pick with Gargantia can't stop talking about him.
HOLY SHIT THIS A MILLION TIMES
The story was a pretty nice throwback to classic sci-fi. I came in expecting nothing and was pleasantly surprised.
>>14027472
>The story was a pretty nice throwback to classic sci-fi.
I thought this too. There was also a lot of classic mecha elements.
>>14027472
>>14027480
How, even? Or rather, in what ways?
>>14027509
It's more of the setting. It feels reminiscent of The Songs of Distant Earth in how a more advanced subset of humans makes contact with a long lost subset humans on an idyllic water world. And of course time travel culture clash is a pretty standard sci-fi trope.
>>14027569
Its not that surprising. If you look at Urobuchi's works its obvious that if he is not full westaboo then his taste is at least much closer to western tastes than the majority of anime writers. Its part of why his plots do so well over here.
Its Starship Troopers meets Water World with a dash of the Twilight Zone. And it works.
>>14027590
>Its Starship Troopers
I don't really see this.
>>14027622
It's the beginning mostly. Humans vs. intelligent bug-like army.
>>14027590
I can confirm that he is not a westaboo. I don't know about the other stuff, but that much I can confirm.
>>14027628
There's also the powered armor and earning your rights as a citizen through military service. It seems the Galactic Alliance just took those ideas and turned them up to 11.
>>14027628
damn you, Verhoeven. there are entire generations that think this is what Starship Troopers is about.
>>14027328
I got a naughty fanmade version that I can't post here.
>>14027653
Verhoeven > Heinlein, as a fact.
>>14027671
It's clearly a photoshop.
>>14027675
>there are people who actually think this
>>14027696
I haven't seen proof to the contrary, and I know I'm not getting any from someone like you.
>Defending Gargantia.
>It's like your friends who are so obsessed with a beautiful woman with a shitty personality and speaks like a retard, but they defend her anyway.
The wonders of mainstream production values and character designs and how it generates subhumans at an alarming rate.
>>14027868
So this allergy of yours to people liking what you don't like, where you born with it? Or did it develop as you got older?
>>14027890
Nice counterargument.
>>14026557
this picture is inaccurate. amy doesn't wear pantsu.
>>14027966
You can't make a counterargument to something that isn't an argument.
>>14026400
>I shall chain you to my chair, but give you your own mechs.
They just had the chains for s&M Purposes didn't they?
>>14028253
Basically. If the OVAs are are indication, Lukkage prefers to find people that are so broken that they believe they have no future and then mold them into the people she wants them to be.
There may have been a time when those chains were real, but now its all just for show.
>>14024938
>My only lingering question of Gargantia is that is the mecha are not only capable and great at acting fully autonomously, why do they even have pilots?
You didn't watch the series? Chambers actually explained that - the reason is politics.
The robots exist so that the humans can remain relatively unmodified while still being able to stand up to the Hideazu and the AI's main mission as far as the nation that built them is concerned is to test and refine the quality of the human material against whatever political standards they have set for themselves.
The pilots are in there so that the polity can eventually reproduce itself with the sort of stock it deems acceptable, military service is basically a school of hard knocks in which each soldier is being indoctrianted, trained, tested and rated individually by his or her AI buddy/teacher.
>>14028342
Is that in the visual novel or something? The TV show doesn't say anything along those lines at all.
>>14027990
Just because you are too stupid not to see it doesn't mean it's not there.
>>14028417
An argument is one or more reasons given forward with the intent of changing the point of view of the other person. No such thing has been provided, just insults and bait without any bother to substantiate it. Therefore no argument exists, and a counter argument is impossible.
Its fine if you don't believe me, but that's still how it works. Sort of like how you included too many negatives in your post to say what you were trying to say.
>>14028451
For acting like a /lit/ reject, you really aren't very smart, are you?
>>14028464
You haven't refuted any points. You just made an ad hominem attack. Good job.
>>14028483
Neither have you, so that makes no difference. And there's nothing wrong with ad hominem unless you're overly sensitive.
>>14028495
Ad hominem is the last resort of someone who refuses to stop talking but has nothing worthwhile to say. If you had anything to support your point of view, you would be spending the exact same level of effort to say that instead. But you don't.
If you are going to dedicate your life to being difficult on the internet, at least be good at it bro.
>>14028495
>unless you're overly sensitive.
why are you still replying to him anon?
>>14024627
>Being a pedo
>>14028715
>where do you think you are?
>>14028728
I'm pretty tired of people using this meme to excuse being a lame person.
>>14028742
>i don't understand the difference between 2d and 3d
reddit misses you friend.
>>14028753
>he wasn't put off by my first meme, time to use another!
>>14028742
It's not a meme, though. Are you new?
>>14028753
Based on his other posts I've seen around here, if he's from anywhere, it's tumblr.
Am i the only one that wanted to do unholy things to him.
>>14028909
See >>14028715.
>>14026835
>No one who likes Gargantia ever mentions Urobuchi in relation to it
Thanks for the laugh. That's like saying anyone who likes any of his works don't bring him up.
>>14028391
He says this the episode after the hideazu reveal when Ledo is refusing to kill them because they're human.
>>14028922
i could give a shit about urobochi and i liked gargantia.
>>14029008
Exception proves the rule.
>>14029008
Cool lie bro
>>14029041
Not him but I don't even know who Urobochi is. I'm a /v/irgin so I don't know who your animu celebs are.
>>14023647
Beautifully atmospheric and idyllic setting
Very satisfying personal development story for the protag
Chamber is a bro
Better sense of comedy than the average anime
Plot and backstory struck a near-perfect balance of depth and unobtrusiveness
Really the only flaw with the series is the messy writing when dealing with the characters' interactions with Striker's fleet.
>>14029120
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gen_Urobuchi
But it's funnier to listen to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3fwyolSozs
>>14029169
Please stop trying to spread your moronic, one-dimensional memethink.
>>14029185
Memes are the only thing of any value you can get out of anime and the like, though.
>>14026400
Thanks for this pic, its a unicorn for my piece...
I thought the show was pretty ok. What I kept noticing is that in the modern day anime shading and lighting style, where shiny, glistened, full-depth-attention-ed tits are rampant, this show made a point of turning the shade and shine up to 11 when it came to girl shoulders and cheeks.
>>14030165
I always thought it was light sunburn.
>>14026400
She also needed to not suddenly want that guy's dick when she showed up again near the end.
>>14028753
The only legitimate love for 2d lolis is that which doesn't sully their purity.
>>14030587
>amy and co
>lolis
retard.
>>14030211
who doesn't want the p-d?
>>14030165
Sun-toasted and seasoned with sea salt on the winds, anon.
Very natural.
>>14030669
>Not knowing the definition of lolicon
They're 14, they're lolis.
>>14031546
Loli has to do with the body, not age. For example, 1000 year old beings being lolis is a pretty common thing.
>>14023647
I want to fuck bellows, ridget, and saaya. I liked chamber and the story was actually decent with a good message about humanity and a different way of living. Definitely one of urobutcher's better stories.
>>14028391
That's the tweeest episode where Chamber babbles about how hideauze has long since abandon humanity. This was the high point of this show for me, I like it when the AI isn't just hurr evil fuck you humans.
Too bad the antagonist is exactly that.
>>14034179
>Too bad the antagonist is exactly that.
Not really. They were attempting to break free of human limits, but ended up just being non-human beasts living just like the animals they are.
>>14034198
I think he means Striker.
But even Striker wasn't evil, it just was following orders that Ledo didn't agree with.
>>14034198
No, they weren't evil. Just different.
It honestly devolved into an ideological slapfight between two entities that evolved from humanit and become something far less.
The hideauze became so connected to their biotech that it became one with it,
The other guys slowly lost anything resembling humanity as they all became soulless organic components to omnipresent AI.
>>14034921
Those orders were evil and no amount of logic, or reason, or appeal to emotion would change it's thinking.
Thus, striker was evil.
>>14034934
If I grab a knife and just wander around stabbing random passerby, does that make the knife evil?
Striker wasn't acting on its own initiative. It was simply a tool. It's rather silly to refer to a tool as "good" or "evil", when the person using the tool is really the one responsible for any moral questions that may arise.
>>14034957
And to be honest, Kugel's plan was cruel but it wasn't evil.
Kugel is right in that humanity on Earth is dangerously fractured and unable to defend itself. This could be forgiven if they were alone and safe, but the Hideazue are right beneath their feet.
Even Ledo, both before and after the Kugel fleet, admits that the humans on Earth are in tremendous danger for which they are indescribably unprepared. If the Hideazue on Earth decide that the humans are a threat, the humans in their current state are dead without Chamber/Striker. But those are at least fairly docile. If even a single space Hideazue were to make ti to earth, it would systematically hunt down and kill every single living human on the planet and destroy them, and there is nothing they could do to stop it.
Kugel's plan was to use apply the doctrines of the Alliance to turn Earth into a force that could conceivably defend itself. Its a dangerous galaxy, and the enemy is already here. The Earth humans are mostly only alive out of luck, at this point.
It would have destroyed their way of life and cost immense sacrifices, but he thought he was saving them.
>>14034957
A tool with it's own will and can make decisions is no longer just a simple tool.
More accurately, if the knife belonged to an asshole who went around randomly stabbing people and it continued to go around stabbing people of it's own accord, and no amount of talk or reason will make it not do it, then it is evil.
The show spent too much time building the AI into being sentient conscious entities that can make their own decisions.
Chamber does evil as well, but it can be reasoned with and thust it is not evil just misguided.
Striker does evil things and can be reasoned with but it does not listen to reason nor emotional pleas, thus it has made a conscious decision to do and thus be evil.
>>14035003
See, you're basing your whole argument on the idea that Striker has free will. It doesn't. It's an AI that's programmed to act in a certain way, and so it acts in that way. There's really nothing more to it.
I wish Chamber started a religion
He would a Rightious and Fair ruler
just posting best robot bro here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-3kijG4C_8
>>14035003
>The show spent too much time building the AI into being sentient conscious entities that can make their own decisions.
It actually did the contrary. The AIs never did anything besides measuring and rating the pilot's fitness in regarding to the society they were part of and assisting them in battle. They require feedback from their pilot to perform their function to their programming's standards and by design, neither them, nore the pilots are meant to be autonomous actors.
When Striker lost its pilot, it lost that feedback system and thus became stuck on attempting to recreate their space fascism within the Kugel fleet. Its programming would only let it gauge information independantly of the pilot feedback in a very limited way, so it really didn't have the means to concieve a better solution than the 1:1 application of the standards it had gauged its last pilot on.
>>14034998
Hideauze also could wipe humanity from the face of the earth at any second at any time period.
They don't care about humans, they are litterally the earth equivalent of the space humans.
And his plan was fucking retarded bullshit.
At no goddamned point did he even come close to creating a society that could grow and welcome in different cultures and ideas.
They didn't create a cult based around technology worship and start technologically arming the people.
He litterally just copied their retarded ass backwards society and applied to people that it did not serve in the fucking slightest for what appeared to be no logical fucking reason.
A violently fucking enforced meritocracy based on fucking nothing?
A fucking lottery to decide who will commit suicide be killed?
The fuck kind of totally fucking retarded society is that? They wouldn't last two fucking generations let alone be able to put up even the slightest fucking resistence to even the earth hideauze let alone one from space.
Create and launch satelites into orbit so that he could get an accurate lay out of the world, create an early detection system, and rudimentary communication network?
Find land or at least a place that's high enough underwater to create an artificial island and build a society there and then continue to look for real land while arming and teaching the populace and anyone they find?
Nah fuck that shit.
Crazy ass cult that'll self destruct in a few years!! That's not retarded at all!
>>14035044
And, indeed, it never would have thought to do so anyway. Kugel told it to use religion to unify humanity into a copy of the Alliance. That was its objective.
Neither Ledo nor Chamber were authorized to change those orders. Striker had no reason to listen to them.
>>14035068
You missed a lot watching the show, huh?
> At no goddamned point did he even come close to creating a society that could grow and welcome in different cultures and ideas.
Of course not. That wasn't his goal. The Alliance doesn't work that way.
> They didn't create a cult based around technology worship and start technologically arming the people.
Worship of technology would have been counter-intuitive. That's how you end up with 40k Techpreists that intentionally refuse to innovate lest they desecrate holy technology and designs.
But they did place value in advanced technology. Thats why they wanted the relics, the most advanced technology on the planet that didn't recently fall from space, and Pinion was of great value to Striker because he could understand these relics and she believed that he might be able to innovate as well given time. She wanted him to teach other people how to use these machines as well, remember? If things had gone according to plan, Pinion would have been the seed for an entire engineering corps because his mechanical skills were basically unrivaled.
> A violently fucking enforced meritocracy based on fucking nothing?
> A fucking lottery to decide who will commit suicide be killed?
You seem to have missed the part where it wasn't random or based on nothing, it was based on ability to serve the fleet. Anyone who didn't meet the Alliance standards of service and usefulness was discarded so as not to waste resources that could be better used elsewhere. That wasn't random at all. And by definition a meritocracy cannot be based on nothing, otherwise it ceases to be a meritocracy.
> Create and launch satelites into orbit so that he could get an accurate lay out of the world, create an early detection system, and rudimentary communication network?
Using what infrastructure, rocket scientists, and launch pads? They had to work with what they had, and build up from there.
>>14035068
See >>14035044. Of course Striker's actions were stupid, that's what happens when you put a computer in a situation for which its programming and instructions weren't intended.
>>14035027
So was chamber, and they spent a lot of time making him become "human" to drive home the fact that ledo was becoming human as well.
Without it's pilot it should not have continued down the path that it did. It should not have continued with that quasi religion. It CHOSE to do those things.
It CHOSE to pretend to be the pilot.
Just as chamber didn't go on a slaughter spree in every battle and didn't mercilessly slaughter all hideaugze it came across. Why? Because the pilot told it too.
It's need to kill the squid humans is greater then the pilots. So that means it chose to listen to him.
It also at the last moment chose to eject ledo against his wishes and save his live.
Striker is evil because it chooses to follow evil orders even when it can stop at any time, when it's under no duress, when it can reason and even change it's orders. It is evil.
>>14035114
Is the idea that you don't have to be evil or sentinent to do grievous harm really so novel?
>a simple show like Gargantia goes over people's heads
I tend to forget this website is filled with 80% autists on any given moment.
>>14035114
I don't think you understand. Its a machine, not a human hiding in the back seat.
If you open up your start menu and click 'shut down', does your computer have a choice? No, it does not. it simply does what it is programmed to do given that input unless something prevents it from doing so.
Striker did not choose to continue down the path, or to pretend Kugel was still alive. Kugel, before he died, told Striker to do these things. And then Striker, having been given an order, carried them out to the best of its ability with no intention of ever stopping because it had no new valid orders to counter those that it had been given.
And Chamber was never humanized. He was great, but they never dabbled with him having free will or a soul or anything. He is a computer, albeit a very advanced one, and he never does anything that is not programmed into him or ordered of him.
Even his last act, ejecting Ledo, is 100% a result of the objectives that Ledo set just moments prior. Ledo wanted Striker destroyed, but for him to survive and go back to Gargantia. Chamber made that happen, because that's his job: helping his pilot to achieve his goals.
>>14035150
He is just so used to really bad scifi were AI's are just people in boxes that being exposed to an intelligently written case of artificial intelligence confuses him. His expectations are all wrong.
>>14035100
>Of course not. That wasn't his goal. The Alliance doesn't work that way.
The alliance only exists because it started out as that, and is so overwhelming in power and scope that no other culture exists outside of that. An empire with no power is not an empire, and a large empire that does not have people who believe in it is one that is damned to fall.
Their entire system was navel gazing faggotry that would have earned the hate of every fleet on the goddamned earth.
>Worship of technology would have been counter-intuitive. That's how you end up with 40k Techpreists that intentionally refuse to innovate lest they desecrate holy technology and designs.
No, that's how you end up with a society that constantly evolves with only what works and what is better being sacred. What you're talking about is nonsense.
>But they did place
.
Striker IS a fucking piece of advanced technology, It not knowing fucking BASICS that would allow for making their society better is fucking retarded. And striker as well as chamber both raised their pilots from infancy. That they couldn't teach those idiots how to use advanced tech or even build moderately advnaced tech or had anyone in their fleets who could learn and build is retarded.
See, that's one of the reasons why that retarded meritocracy system they had going was fucking dumb
Their meritocracy system was so poorly thought out and implemented that it might as well have been them pulling names from a fucking hat called "jobs" and another called "walk the plank".
>Using what
Striker, striker, and striker.
The technology to create satelites is ancient as fuck and can be easily replicated with shit they dredge from the bottom of the ocean.
And strker can go up high enough to launch the fuckers into the upper atmosphere
And they only need some randomly placed buoys with rudimentary gps to act as a link and to keep an eye on the movement of the hide, fish, and anything else in the ocean.
>>14035157
I'm sorry, but the magical ai in this bit of sci-fi fluff are sentient.
Secondly, arguing that it's a tool and a machine over and over again does not take away from the fact that this particular tool and machine knows reason and can be reasoned with and thus has choice.
It chooses to continue to do what most people would consider evil. Thus it is evil.
If they wanted them to be simple AI helpers then they would not have spent so much time trying to craft personhood and thoughts for said AI helpers.
Hell they would have only given curt positive and negative answers and did exactly what they were told.
Did you actually WATCH the fight between ledo/chamber and striker? The AI had went tits up with fucking grief.
It was carrying it's pilots dead preserved body in it's cockpit for...what...decades.
I will call that fucking sentient reasoning entity evil for doing what is considered evil acts for it's own purposes.
Your entire counter argument rests on "it is a machine". Yes AI in the real world is a machine and will at best be little more then tools/dumb helpers that will do what we want and at best, will show nothing but canned pesonality.
Chamber has shown from the moment it got to the earth that it has reason and thought and will and in it's last moment it saved it's pilot and the human beings that he cared for to stop striker.
This series is yet another sci-fi with thinking machines GONE TOO FAR and ebil robots. It's no fucking different.
Where's the dancing webms? I came for the dancing webms
>>14035256
Google would probably help.
>>14035180
>The alliance only exists because it started out as that, and is so overwhelming in power and scope that no other culture exists outside of that.
Free fleets exist in space. Ledo and Chambers talk about that în episode one.
>>14035268
>î
>>14035268
I think that's what they initially mistake the Earth fleet for. I may be remembering wrong, but don't they refer to it as a Lost Tribe or something? I took it as "the Alliance grew out of one faction that went into space, but when they encounter a different offshoot of the original migration they try to bring them into the fold."
I may be wrong, especially because the space societies are drawn in a very sketchy fashion compared to Earth.
Given the depth of discussion this series gets, you have to admit that Gargantia is a good mecha series.
>>14035445
No you don't.
>>14035233
You're anthropomorphizing the AI a lot more than what it really is. The same way with dogs when people think they feel guilt. They don't, it's just a submission pose.
>If they wanted them to be simple AI helpers then they would not have spent so much time trying to craft personhood and thoughts for said AI helpers. Hell they would have only given curt positive and negative answers and did exactly what they were told.
You have some misconceptions about AI. We already have AI capable of making rudimentary decisions based on their surroundings as well as holding a short conversation about said surroundings.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/robots-learn-disobey-humans-watch-6905437
It stands to reason a more advanced AI from a more advanced civilization would be able to hold longer conversations and hold debates, but at the same time be entirely subservient to its masters.
Once again, you're ascribing human behavior and human thinking to something that explicitly isn't human. The same way treating a dog like a human (even though it has thoughts and feelings and can make its own decisions), doesn't make them a human.
>It was carrying it's pilots dead preserved body in it's cockpit for...what...decades.
That's because Kugel died in the cockpit and Striker had no way of getting him out without revealing the fact that Kugel was dead to the fleet. As for why it didn't just get someone to open it and kill them afterwards, it's not creative.
>EBUL
Good and evil are subjective. If someone from the GA saw what Striker was doing, they'd be praising it.
>Chamber has shown from the moment it got to the earth that it has reason and thought and will and in it's last moment it saved it's pilot and the human beings that he cared for to stop striker.
Absolutely no where has Chamber acted beyond the constraints of its programming. Literally everything it does is based on what Ledo says. Give me an example where it has acted beyond its constraints.
>>14031546
they could have easily been stated as 17 and no one would have batted an eye.
>>14035480
No stupid, look.
It is not me that is anthropomorphising those things. It is them following every single sentient machine trope period.
And if you weren't stupid or being deeply disengenuous you'd be able to admit that those fucking things had reason and ideas and you would be able to admit that it's evil for what it is choosing to do.
And you mean to fucking tell me that in all those fucking years it couldn't have dumped it's pilot's body? Like just threw that shit in the sea?
Dude, seriouly. Hell, during the fucking fight, it closed it's hatch and tried to do an environmental seal. To try and preserve it.
If you couldn't listen to that fucking rant it was doing and didn't come away from it with "this machine has gone evil and is suffering from grief" then...I don't know what to tell you.
By the way, as someone who's been interested in AI tech robotics and has kept abreast of it for longer then he's had dick hair,
that is just a fucking sideshow. There is nothing going on in that code.
It's designed to do that. We can easily create an "ai" that can respond in certain ways and can look at an environment and pick out things.
As a matter of fact, the only thing interesting in that article is in how they are able to create a program that can recognize an environment. Everything else is just garbage.
>>14031546
Loli has been a body type for decades now. I've seen 40 year old women that look like they got lost on their way to a junior high cheerleader try out. No seriously.
You're looking for distastefully underage.
>>14035180
> Striker IS a fucking piece of advanced technology, It not knowing fucking BASICS that would allow for making their society better is fucking retarded.
Any information Striker and Chamber had on Alliance tech would be woefully unuseable under the circumstances.
As a military machine, any information Striker had stored would almost certainly only be relevant to Machine calibers and other military hardware, for the same reason that when you buy a new car it doesn't come with the Encylopedia Brittanica. Under other circumstances, they could probably query and download new information as they needed it from Alliance networks, but on Earth that isn't an option.
So they only have information on Alliance tools and hardware. That's got to still be useful, right?
Except no, it isn't. The moment that the instruction call for using a grade-7 plasma cutter, everything falls apart. Because no one on Earth has a plasma cutter, much less a grade-7 one. And your instructions don't tell you how to make one, it just presumes you actually have the tools you need to do the job.
Striker is a computer, not an omniscient database.
>>14035560
Not who you have been arguing with, but can you point out any specific actions on the part of the AI's that show they have free will as opposed to just following their programmed and stated objectives?
>>14024627
The first dance scene should be excised.
The second, private one, is fucking beautiful, and one of the best scenes in the show.
>>14036743
How does a Waterworld society have the means to fabricate Hawaiian print t-shirts anyway?
>>14037116
Why wouldn't they have the means?
>>14037125
I dunno, I figured the weave work would make it impractical to fabricate given the amount of space you could reserve on a boat.
You ever pause to think about what goes into making the clothes you wear? Just wondering.
>>14037090
That's basically my exact opinion too.
>>14037090
>>14037134
How tasteless.
>>14037125
No dye, no materials to make the cloth that goes into that shirt.
I can go on.
The clothes they where makes no real sense if you think about it for a minute.
I mean, I thought I saw some people wearing fucking animal skins and it's canon that no one has found anything resembling land at all.
>>14035653
Every fucking military on the planet earth has rudimentary survival skills and technology.
Even the fucking boyscout manual has enough tech to put together a fucking generator, batteries, and a ham radio from just raw ass materials.
A fucking AI like that with that kind of capacity not having even basic knowledge like that is a stupid fucking plot device.
The people on the earth not having that simple knowledge and not exploiting chamber or strikers abilities is fucking retarded.
Them not having protocols and basic knowledge in place for what to do if they find themselves lost in space or on another planet is goddamned retarded.
There is no excuse for that bullshit. For gods sake the average 5 year old has digital toys that can store the entire goddamned library of congress and every piece of literature on the entire fucking earth.
You mean to tell me that piece of shit doesn't have AT LEAST the same amount of storage space as a cheap 10 dollar smart phone from the dollar store?
>>14035678
Just watch episode 12. There is not a single bit of logic or mindless tool just following orders to those AI.
>>14037177
>it's canon that no one has found anything resembling land at all.
No it's not. Gargantia has a map of the world on the bridge and it clearly shows masses of land.It's also upside down
The canned sequel would also take place on land, with implications that the seafaring people have limited contact with the land countries.
>>14037177
>No dye, no materials to make the cloth that goes into that shirt.
Why? You didn't explain why they wouldn't have those things.
>I mean, I thought I saw some people wearing fucking animal skins and it's canon that no one has found anything resembling land at all.
There is land, bro.
>>14037128
Given their level of technology, Gargantia mostly likely has entire boats dedicated to production facilities for their small population. Mass production for thousands of people doesn't require a lot of equipment.
>>14037209
Looms can be pretty fucking huge though.
>>14037248
This is a modern industrial loom.
>>14037198
>>14037186
No there isn't.
If there was then the all wouldn't be forced to eek out meager existences on the fucking ocean.
No seriously, point to a single moment where they say or confirm that there is land or they know where to get land.
Fucks sake, if that were the case then striker/and it's pilot's entire stupid fucking plan is even more fucking retarded.
>>14037177
>There is not a single bit of logic or mindless tool just following orders to those AI
But that was literally all that episode was! Given the input and paramaters that she had, Striker ran the numbers and concluded her course of action to be the most logical one to achieve her programmed purpose. Chamber, who had received different instruction and parameters from Ledo, reached a different conclusion. And, amusingly, since each knows that it just followed the logical steps then the other must clearly have gone rampant.
I thought this show did a really great job portraying its AI. They weren't just humans with the serial numbers filed off, they were recognisably programs. Advanced programs with interfaces so good that they can sometimes give the impression of sentience, but ultimately just a really complicated, self modifying punch card.
That being said though, I do think that both of them really were right about the other going rampant by the end of the series. They were cut off from their normal checks and balances and ended up developing outwith the confines of their original purpose, all while rationalising it with technicalities, like Chamber's reason to eject Ledo, or Striker's declaration that all humans were its users. They can't ignore or override their directives any more than a human can stop breathing, but what they can do is circumvent them (and they can do this because they were programmed to be able to solve problems).
So yeah, they're not sentient, but I don't think they were operating exactly how they were supposed to either.
>>14037395
>If there was then the all wouldn't be forced to eek out meager existences on the fucking ocean.
>having land = infinite space for populations
wew lad
>>14037403
LIke I said, they were illogical and making decisons on their own.
They are not mere mindless tools.
THUS Striker chose to do what is considered evil.
>>14037395
>>14037416
Did you even read his post? They weren't illogical, they just did things that were unprecedented due to their situation but were still a logical conclusion given their parameters.
>THUS Striker chose to do what is considered evil.
Just no.
>>14037395
There is land in the OVA. In fact, the plot is that one of the Kugel-cultist was a spy from one of the land-nations trying to find out the secret of the spaceman and his ubermecha Striker. They also unearthed an old prototype mecha like Chamber (with AI and all that stuff), which would give them an edge over a rival land-nation.
But for reasons (no idea why), that land nation sends a fleet to wipe out the Gargantia-fleet, and the spy teams up with Ledo and the Proto-Chamber to defeat the land nation fleet and save Gargantia.
Then the Proto-Chamber sacrifices itself to save spy-girl and Ledo.
>>14037416
You just skimmed what you wanted to hear form that, huh?
They weren't making decisions, they were reaching the single endpoint that their own particular input combination led to. Think of it like entering different numbers into the same long sequence of equations.
Plus, Striker wasn't evil, she was crazy. So was Chamber, but not in a damaging way.
>>14037395
BTFO
>>14037418
>>14037436
guessing its the mountainous regions that survived
yoooo
>>14037177
> Every fucking military on the planet earth has rudimentary survival skills and technology.
> Even the fucking boyscout manual has enough tech to put together a fucking generator, batteries, and a ham radio from just raw ass materials.
Sure, but the problem is none of those low-tech skills matter in space. "Survival skills" in space basically amounts to space suit/hull repair to stop air leaks, knowing how to cobble together an air or water recycler, and knowing how to jimmy together a distress beacon to alert for pickup.
Nothing else matters in space, because if you get stranded in space the only thing you can do is pray you get picked up and try to buy time/increase the odds of that happening. And if you are in a machine caliber, the presumption is probably going to be that you go into stasis sleep, and the MC itself can send out a distress signal anyway, so unless your MC is totally fucking wrecked none of the above skills are actually needed.
Not that any of these skills would help you on Earth anyway, and knowledge of basic MC repair would also be worthless because, as Pinion and his crew clearly showed, they lack the tools to do any kind of work on a MC at all. Its just too far above their tech level.
> There is no excuse for that bullshit. For gods sake the average 5 year old has digital toys that can store the entire goddamned library of congress and every piece of literature on the entire fucking earth.
You mean to tell me that piece of shit doesn't have AT LEAST the same amount of storage space as a cheap 10 dollar smart phone from the dollar store?
That's just flat out incorrect. The Library of Congress alone in 2011, so it will actually be a bit more now, contained 235 Terabytes of digital collection information. Nobody is carrying that around on their tablet or smart phone.
What you do instead is have a network that allows you to access that information stored elsewhere by remote. Something Striker is out of range to do.
>>14023647
I personally enjoyed it, flaws and all. I can understand a lot of the other /m/en not enjoying it due things here and there such as the "hurr u shuddent murdur pirates" subplot that even I found dumb.
I think that I enjoyed it best when I saw it as a slice-of-post-apocalyptic-waterworld-meets-turn-a-life. Watching the world-building and the atmosphere setting was really comfy.
>>14027628
The GA is Voerhoeven's trainwreck on speed. Citizenship is only gained through service, the Powered Armor regiments, the Orwellian themes. All that was missing was Neil Patrick Harris.
>>14027675 is objectively wrong.
Gargantia's Big Secret itself is straight out of The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.
>>14041296
>Gargantia's Big Secret itself is straight out of The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.
I don't think they ever made a secret out of the fact that the convoys are about as liberal as Heinlein was in his writing whenever he was banged by a liberal woman...
>>14026398I came, thenI came to post this.
>>14032866
>I want to fuck bellows, ridget, and saaya.
Superior taste, my nigga!
Best. Show. Ever.
>>14041296
But Mike is an even bigger bro than Chamber.
Johnny Rico in waterworld
>>14043977
not really.
CAN'T STOP
Too much water 7.8/10
>>14023771
The problem is that if you completely wipe out the scout party of the pirates, the rest of them will get pissed. The Gargantia has no real way of defending itself outside of Chamber (and a cannon they never use and only reveal near the end). It may be fucked up, but it's safer for the city as a whole to just let the pirates do what they want to people they find once in a while if in ensures the stability of the rest of the populace.
>>14044871
Not sure it's even that. From the dialogue it sounds like the pirates never even hurt or killed anyone before so they just display arms as a threat.
>>14044871
>wipe out a scout party
>somehow this is not taken as a clear message to stay the fuck away
Well I guess that's why you're supposed to leave a survivor behind.
>>14023771
>>14044871
The situation between both parties were skirmishes that were generally non-lethal. They would sometimes be robbed of supplies or extorted, but they managed.
Ledo went in with a total war mentality and just started killing everyone. The problem with that was is because
1. Chamber instantly became an existential threat for every power group in the region.
2. The situation escalated into all out war.
3. Gargantia was at the mercy of Ledo.
Ledo rocked the boat. It's like if there was a fist fight going on where a group of people were gathered, and then some random gun stepped in and started shooting people.
>>14044903
>defenseless nation has basically held a non-agression treaty with you for forever
>suddenly they wipe out a group of your men brutally
>implying all bets aren't off
>>14046157
Who is this sperm wyrm?
>>14046164
Mayta
>>14046167
Oh, damn. I didn't recognize her with the goggles off.
>>14023647
it was ok
>>14025377
>>14025387
>>14026557
So, did he ever bang this slut? (I don't think I finished it.)
>>14046987
I think there's a light novel continuation where they have kids together.
>>14037436
>spy teams up with Ledo and the Proto-Chamber to defeat the land nation fleet and save Gargantia
Wasn't main message of gargantia to let agressors rape your women cuz pirate lives matter? Baka Ledo when he'll learn, at least Amy scolded him for doing this?
>>14048161
>this poster thinks he wouldn't end up in a comfortable bag in the Kugel fleet
>>14048161
Not this shit again.
>>14032866
>>14042325
Ridget and Bellows, fuck yes. Saaya can fuck off with her pedobait.
>>14048161
>I swear I'm not a blithering retard
>>14048161
I remember dropping the show after that, does it ever give a good reason why she scolded him for saving her from pirate rape/murder?
>>14049254
Fuck off, troll.
>>14037177
>No dye
A shitton of modern dyes are derived from sea life. Shells and plants and stuff.
>>14049283
what? if your friend is being assaulted by known criminals, you wouldn't stop by any means necessary?
I think the idea was to show that it was an excess use of force for a petty squable, but I really didn't see it with the way they framed it.
>>14035577
Lolicon is pretty explicitly about the age of the subject.
>>14049330
See >>14044871. You're bringing the city into a war they have no way of fighting.
>>14049330
Read the thread or watch the show, troll.
>>14049336
>>14049404
why would I, as the viewer. be worried about large scale pirate attacks when I just saw the MC erase 3 dozen people individually in the blink of an eye? No one with their tech level can even fight that. and why would she being FUCKING THERE, see anything posing so much as a threat to him?
how is it justifiable to chastise someone for thwarting your noble sacrifice, when you have not communicated that being taken by raping/pillaging PIRATES is a noble sacrifice to begin with?
Or is not liking bad story telling and confounding characters trolling now?
>>14049507
No one cares about your strawman arguments when you haven't even read the thread that has answered all of those dumb "points".
Let's just say that you're a fucking retard and you should fuck off to another thread. Okay? Okay. Bye bye!
>>14049525
>ITT:What did /m/ think of this show?
>give opinion
>ask questions out of admitted ignorance
>linked to post that partially explain points
>ask further questions about compelling story telling and character flaws/consistency
>"No one cares about your strawman arguments"
>"Let's just say that you're a fucking retard"
learn to read, anon
>>14049647
>>14049507
>>14049254
They actually demonstrated how the politics of a fleet convoy works in the show.
People will leave if they feel that they're going to get the short end of the stick by having a target painted on their backs and by having to sacrifice their personal escort ships because SOMEBODY fucked up hard and good.
It's an actual swarm and the overall costs of being preyed on by pirates are reduced by joining one, the same way as the individual risk of falling prey to a predators fall for each member of a swarm.
But having the pirates actually actively assault the convoy you're part of will raise the costs significantly, especially for those that have and provide escort ships - something which NOT all members are capable of in the first place.
It also paints a bigger target on you as such an assault makes robbing the shit outta the juicy parts of your convoy easier for all the other pirates who might be active in the region - somebody already smashed themselves against your defencive firepower, whittling it down to the point where the next wave will get through at much reduced costs.
This isn't hard.
