http://www.publishersweekly.com/978-1-4215-8494-2
>Tanaka's military SF classic has been unavailable in English for decades, but given the poor quality of this new translation, it's hard to say whether that was truly a bad thing. The saga follows two young commanders on either side of a galactic war: Reinhard von Lohengramm of the Galactic Empire, and Yang Wen-li of the Free Planets Alliance. Upon their first meeting in battle, each man distinguishes himself by utilizing unorthodox tactical maneuvers (which have their basis in military history). A web of political infighting on both sides slowly reveals itself, but Huddleston's prose is so slavishly devoted to Tanaka's original Japanese text that the path towards the meat of the book quickly becomes a slog. It's easy to lose interest long before the action picks up (no thanks to the unnecessary, lengthy prologue, absent in the fan-favorite anime adaptation). It doesn't help that Tanaka's nearly 35-year-old plot has aged rather poorly; with its overwhelmingly male-dominated story and shallow female characters, it's hard to find a place for this series among today's more nuanced SF. (Mar.)
Absolutely BTFO, go back to Japan mysogynerds.
>a story written 35 years ago, in Japan, revolving around the military is male-centric
Ya don't say.
>>13966237
>but given the poor quality of this new translation
>but Huddleston's prose is so slavishly devoted to Tanaka's original Japanese text
So it's a poor translation, because it's too accurate to the source.
>>13966237
>Muh diversity
>translation is bad because it's too close to original
I hope people don't fall for this b8 review
>>13966237
>>13966842
scifi was taken over by progressives a while ago, doesn't surprise me they don't like stories that don't involve genderless aliens using homosex to stop climate change or w/e the fuck
>translation is bad because it's too close to original
>>13966856
>Nuanced SF
What a fucking snob. Today's SF isn't any more or less nuanced than it has been in the past. If anything I'd actually argue it's less nuanced. Most of old greats are all dead or will be within the next few years and few new writers are able to rise up and replace them.
>>13966856
Many of the best writers from the golden age were progressive. That didn't stop them from being good writers. The problem isn't that modern writers are progressive it's that the "progressive" writers of today are shit.
>>13966295
>>13966865
Haven't read it but the script being too literal might be a serious issue for anyone not used to Japanese.
Fuck that review, too literal and no MUH STRONG WYMINZ!? Maybe, it's purposely meant to piss me off to get me to read it...
It's a shame that a "classic" can't live up to modern standards. Imo Ready Player One should probably be the bar that sci-fi should strive to reach. It's amazing, but there is a little room for other writers to improve, like making the main character a female.
>>13966877
>Sci-fi writers of the past were progressive.
>citation needed
>>13966237
>in the fan-favorite anime adaptation
The fuck? There were whole episodes on it.
>>13966856
And this is why the Sad Puppies exist.
>>13966877
The problem is that modern writers push Progressivism as the solution to all current issues and problems and paint the other side as simplistic neanderthals. They don't write good sci-fi; they write political pamphlets with a sci-fi veneer.
>>13966897
That's my favorite book, a book being a number of pages bound together on which a story is written. It's references really appeal to me as a nerd, a social outcast who is passionate about pop culture and media, particularly of the fantasy and science-fiction genres,
>>13966237
Okay, when is this coming out? I'll buy it and review it for /m/, an honest /m/anly fa/tg/uy review.
>>13966913
Half of /m/ is already buying it and forming their own opinion.Also it's coming out this week.
>>13966237
Anyone know when the Bluray is gonna get released?
>>13966865
Clearly a follower of the Italian way of translating.
>>13966237
>An old classic is written in a way that doesn't fulfill muh modern values
I expect they are going to complain about mythologies having a lot of males at one point in time.
>>13966237
>politics in the military is male centric
Gee no way
>>13966237
>shit tier blog review with zero substance
>Absolutely BTFO
Yeah. Totally BTFO.
>>13966911
>>13966897
This tbqh, I think that Ready Player One is the Dune or Foundation of our generation, a literal masterpiece that's well-deserving of a movie adaptation
> It doesn't help that Tanaka's nearly 35-year-old plot has aged rather poorly
There's no doubting that a lot of LOGH's elements aged poor as milk, but that doesn't mean it wasn't top tier dairy for it's time and even now still is very evident.
Granted many people will drink the spoiled milk and claim it's literally 3-star tier, but the fact that it's still good enough to delude these people into thinking it's the best shit ever is a testament to the strengths which did age like fine wine.
Like the fucking one liners we keep using for reaction images. Will any anime ever come close to having that many? Probably not.
Has nothing to do with gender balance. That's just retarded, you don't see the rest of the world crying about Romance of Three Kingdoms being male dominant.
>>13966237
I'm sure they're perfectly fine novels, but I'm still not reading them.
>>13967045
Well fuck you too anon, I like an aged milk.
>>13966295
>>13966842
>>13966865
You guys seem to have completely misunderstood the reviewer's point due to your blind fanboyness.
It's not the fact that it's close to the original in *content*, it's the prose that's an issue. An almost a literal word for word translation, and given the nature of the immense differences between English language prose and Japanese prose, might be an issue. It's, as the reviewer says, boring and difficult to read in English.
A good translation would be keeping the content exactly the same while having the prose be engaging to the audience, which, according to the reviewer of course, this translation does not. Given the shitty quality of most officially translated works of lesser known Japanese works, I'm not surprised.
>>13966925
>Half of /m/ is already buying it
More like a fifth
>>13967538
>You guys seem to have completely misunderstood the reviewer's point due to your blind fanboyness. It's not the fact that it's close to the original in *content*, it's the prose that's an issue. An almost a literal word for word translation, and given the nature of the immense differences between English language prose and Japanese prose, might be an issue. It's, as the reviewer says, boring and difficult to read in English. A good translation would be keeping the content exactly the same while having the prose be engaging to the audience, which, according to the reviewer of course, this translation does not. Given the shitty quality of most officially translated works of lesser known Japanese works, I'm not surprised.
Translation is not a mathematical operation and it is not synonym with adaptation. There is no 1 way to do things. Being able to translate and convey not only the original meaning (it's important of course) but also a whiff of the original language structure is a definite plus.
Complaining about the structure of the original Japanese is like complaining that Victor Hugo wrote Les Miserables in French and the English translation is bad 'cause the translator follows too closely the original French.
>>13966910
>The problem is that modern writers push Progressivism as the solution to all current issues and problems and paint the other side as simplistic neanderthals. They don't write good sci-fi; they write political pamphlets with a sci-fi veneer.
Did you by any chance ever actually WATCH Star Trek TOS? The sci-fi element at the time was basically just there to get it on tv, Gene Roddenberry always wrote it as political and moral commentary on the current state of the world.
>>13967580
>Translation is not a mathematical operation and it is not synonym with adaptation. There is no 1 way to do things.
That's exactly what I said. You can't just do a direct translation from the Japanese novel to the English novel and expect it to be perfectly fine. Especially given the laborious content of LoGH. Japanese is a dull language to read in English, which is why you'll find most translations take some liberties. The only reason the show is so popular is because despite the hundreds of hours of talking heads, the subtitles kept it simple and concise, yet engaging. Now imagine getting all of the dialogue as it was in the show, plus everything the conveyed by the visuals, transformed into stilted English prose. It's bound to be fucking boring.
>Complaining about the structure of the original Japanese is like complaining that Victor Hugo wrote Les Miserables in French and the English translation is bad 'cause the translator follows too closely the original French.
Not at all, because French and English are more similar than English and Japanese in its grammatical structure. Why do you think shows like Zeta and G-Reco are so difficult to understand and translate into English? Tomino writing lends a hand, I'll admit.
I highly doubt anyone ITT has ever actually read the original books in its native Japanese, but I can very well imagine that, like in a lot of English language books (not that I'd expect the average /m/oron to have read very many) to do with military politics, it's pretty damn arduous to get through. And that's what the person argues.
>>13966237
I find pretty stupid loving/hating a translation almost nobody has red
>>13967619
>Why do you think shows like Zeta and G-Reco are so difficult to understand and translate into English
They're not. Anyone that says they can't understand Zeta is a retard, because it's an amazingly straightforward show that doesn't keep anything hidden in subtext.
>>13967619
>like in a lot of English language books (not that I'd expect the average /m/oron to have read very many) to do with military politics, it's pretty damn arduous to get through.
Bullshit, it all depends on the writer. I had to read like 15 different military novels for a war literature class, and none of them were hard to get through.
>>13967634
I find the idea that you can't have strong feelings one way or the other about something until lots of people have experienced it stupid.
UNBROKEN ARROW WHEN, THOUGH.
YOU CAN'T CALL MUH SOGGY KNEE ON A PROTAG WHOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS PLANEFU IS ON VERY EQUAL AND LOVING TERMS.
>>13967637
>Anyone that says they can't understand Zeta is a retard, because it's an amazingly straightforward show that doesn't keep anything hidden in subtext.
This. People in Zeta literally say how they're feeling so the audience knows, and that makes me angry! Everyone's motivations are clearly spelled out aside from Jamitov's. The next episode previews make sure you don't lose anything from the plot.
If you can't understand Zeta, then you need to forfeit your brain priveledges.
>>13967699
The problem is that Zeta does not make much sense. Not that it is hard to follow. So I can say I understand what happens in Zeta and also say that I do not understand Zeta at all and be correct both times.
>>13967651
my point was : if you haven't red it, how can you blindly decide if a translation is good?
>>13967538
To be fair, the review is kind of fucked as well.
The reviewer apparently ain't that fantastic at writing reviews because what he meant to say, that the translation is word-for-word and makes the reading really boring just completely went over people's head because of his apparent need to use fancy words when he doesn't necessarily need to.
Look at this sentence.
>A web of political infighting on both sides slowly reveals itself, but Huddleston's prose is so slavishly devoted to Tanaka's original Japanese text that the path towards the meat of the book quickly becomes a slog.
"Slavishly devoted to Tanaka's original Japanese text"? That's a long-winded and fancy way to say its a word-for-word translation.
"the path towards the meat of the book quickly becomes a slog."? That's another fucking long-winded way to say that the word-for-word translation makes the reading experience horrible.
Its like he's trying to fulfill a word quota.
>It doesn't help that Tanaka's nearly 35-year-old plot has aged rather poorly; with its overwhelmingly male-dominated story and shallow female characters, it's hard to find a place for this series among today's more nuanced SF.
This last sentence makes the whole absolutely goddamn worthless. I'm not surprised it got a literal translation, in fact that's exactly what I expected, but why even bring that shit about 'male-dominated story' up? It has nothing to do with the rest of the review.
>>13967773
Some people expect space opera to be ultra progressive, I guess.
And so we run into the problem where for once, being science fiction undermines a story in the eyes of someone.
>>13966925
Welp better pre-order it. I love me some Japanese Sci-Fi and I've been meaning to get into LoGH
>>13967766
I can't, he (guy in OP) can.
>>13967822
Of course he can, OP was shilling his review here.
>>13967826
Not according to >>13967634, who thinks he has to wait till lots of other people also read it.
>>13967773
>male-dominated story
>a problem
I agree that the last part ain't even relevant to the review.
Why does the gender of the characters matter when their gender is not even relevant to the plot?
>bitching about people bitching
>>13967045
>Has nothing to do with gender balance. That's just retarded, you don't see the rest of the world crying about Romance of Three Kingdoms being male dominant.
I think someone will bitch about it at one point, which leads to someone re-writing Romance of the Three Kingdoms to be more "appropriate" for the modern age.
>>13967853
Well I've seen LOTR characters redone to be progressive so it could happen.
>>13967853
We really are in the darkest timeline, aren't we?
>>13967873
Well, if one of us is bored we can probably try to rile up the folks that are more likely to bitch about such stuff just to see if they really will try to re-write it.
I personally think the chinese will be pretty pissed if they know that happened.
>>13967853
Dynasty Warriors?
>>13967853
>>13967884
You know there are at least three different anime series that turn RoTK characters into pretty fanservice girls, right?
>>13967902
But that was done by those dirty filthy Japs, who as we know were bombed into traditional values, only the pure minds of enlightened Western upper-middle class womynz could do it correctly.
>>13966283
>a story written 35 years ago, in Japan, imitating classic Napoleonic history, revolving around the military is male-centric
Yep
>>13967902
You can at least tell those are not as serious as the original though.
We're talking a hypothetical re-written version of Romance of the Three Kingdoms more "appropriate" for the modern age and written seriously.
Why would anybody be shocked that a series that used classical pieces for its entire soundtrack would translate as "dry"? I doubt it's any error of translation, but is rather a result of the original text. The implication that the translator should have jazzed it up is pure idiocy. LotGH is Foundation, Starship Troopers, and Dune, not some Game of Thrones in space thing like this reviewer wanted.
As is the norm these days, this isn't a review of the work, but a review of where the critic thinks it should go in modern culture. Whatever he thinks that is.
>>13968033
> Foundation, Starship Troopers, and Dune
All 3 of those have really great prose that sucks you in and won't let go though.
>>13968045
Dune yeah, the other two are questionable. At any rate, it's a drier prose of world building than the current trend of snappy dialogue and grit.
>>13966903
If you don't think a lot of Sci-fi was progressive then you are fucking deluded. It exists to show worlds that are similar enough to our own to feel comfortable but different enough to be interesting.
This often results in things like vastly more progressive social standards in works, or even the exploration of taboos being framed as normal.
>>13967538
>It's not the fact that it's close to the original in *content*, it's the prose that's an issue. An almost a literal word for word translation, and given the nature of the immense differences between English language prose and Japanese prose, might be an issue. It's, as the reviewer says, boring and difficult to read in English.
Anon says about a book who's translation is still days away from an actual release.
I'm willing to bet OP's reviewer got an advanced copy, but not you. Which makes your defense here completely baseless.
>>13968071
It's largely dependent on where in the realm of scifi you're going.
Social SF does explore a lot of "what if this societal norm we take for granted were changed?" And when you get to the scale of space opera an argument can be made for tearing down the conceptions of gender/race/whatever roles in favor of valuing a person as a person rather than what kind of person they are (or the inverse, can't rule out the rise of Space Hitler yknow).
And then there's the stuff where being dry and rigid makes the most sense, in very technical oriented works of fiction where it's the exploration of a technology and taking its role in the world to its extreme conclusion that forms the basis of the writing.
If you're dealing with concepts like Artificial Intelligence and transhumanism, shit like gender, sexuality or "race" become much less important. Practically moot since the general themes of those stories is, "am I human?" not "MUH OPPRESSIONZ"
I expected LOGH to read something like Asimov's Foundation, am I right in thinking the translation isn't going to be along those lines?
>>13968097
Not completely true if you take into account who is gonna first have access to AI and transhumanism tech.
>>13966842
We live in an age where the 70s Mazinger Z anime gets bad reviews for being too sexist.
>>13968502
But that's a class issue. Haves and have nots, PCMR and console plebs, etc. If you think Bodingus Cousin Fucker the third from Arkansas has equal opportunity to access thanshumanism tech as Shaniqua Wang, ceo of the leading biotech firm in the Afri-Asia union, you're an idiot.
>>13966897
My favorite part of the hit book Ready Player One is when the main character from the book Ready Player One talks about someone piloting a mech(that's what the Japanese call giant robots in Japan a country which is on Earth) that resembles the Gundam from the hit 1970s anime Mobile Suit Gundam.
>>13967045
>you don't see the rest of the world crying about Romance of Three Kingdoms being male dominant.
They would if there's a big budget Hollywood adaptation.
>>13968655
For the whitewashing that'd ensue.
>>13968655
No, they'd be too busy complaining about them casting white people as Chinese historical figures to pay attention to gender balance.
>>13968659
>not wanting Romance of the Three Kingdoms starring Tom Cruise as the last kingdom
>>13968077
Thank you, you've worded my intent much more eloquently.
>>13968664
Will Keanu get a role in it too? If so, I'm totally down for it.
>>13968666
Good literature makes you think.
A lot of people would look at SF and think of all of it as pulp, and to be fair there is a lot of pulp in the genre, but even then it can be a good springboard for what-if discourse.
Technothrillers tend to be very interesting about it, the works of Tom Clancy may have been ridiculous and pro-American one way or another but in Red Storm Rising you could follow his and Larry Bond's idea of how an initial upset in the Russian oil industry could spiral out of control into all out World War 3, with years of theory about how East and West would deal with one another's weaponry played out in a wargame with plot, all to indulge in the thought experiment of what a non-nuclear world war would look like (at least based on Clancy's and Bond's assumptions given the facts known or assumed at the time, with a bit of Harpoon simulation thrown in for good measure).
I swear some of the people in this thread are legitimately illiterate
someone seriously going >muh diversity in a thread about a series where the good guys are literally defined by their diversity in their opposition to space prussia and live in a society with harmonious (as far as is ever shown) race relations, along with being a society that has women presidents and fighter pilots
you can't blame 35 year old japanese traditionalism for the story having only a few female characters when the society it depicts is more progressive than even modern japan, its just pure lack of imagination
>>13966237
Why is nothing allowed to be for a certain demographic anymore? Why can't anything be FOR men or FOR women. Fuck SJW faggots.
>>13967902
Doesn't count, that's just plain capitalism. It isn't about diversity, it's about turning everything (ancient heros, classic mythological beasts, old warships, modern operating systems, even freaking cans of soda) into cute, sexualized female mascots for men to obsess over and buy posters and pillows and figures of.
On the other hand, you have hordes of people busy churning out art that 'fixes' any and every popular story they don't deem diverse enough.
>>13968763
if you want to be like that then LOGH was never for you, if it was they wouldn't have filled it with so many pretty boys and fujo bait
>>13968781
You know what I mean.
>>13968765
>inb4 we wuz kangz/stewards
>>13967770
>"Slavishly devoted to Tanaka's original Japanese text"? That's a long-winded and fancy way to say its a word-for-word translation.
That's how most people who write for a living would put it. Most people on /m/ only read subtitles and pulp military sci-fi though.
>>13968033
I sure wouldn't say prose is a strong point for A Song of Ice and Fire.
>>13968713
The thing is that operating in a pulp genre doesn't preclude literary merit. Sci-fi fans are periodically vindicated by works that achieve mainstream recognition. Then they turn around and fail to see the pulp for what it is, and get upset that the genre as a whole doesn't receive that kind of recognition.
>>13968763
>Why is nothing allowed to be for a certain demographic anymore? Why can't anything be FOR men or FOR women. Fuck SJW faggots.
What kind of story do you think should be for women?
>>13968875
>What kind of story do you think should be for women?
Not that Anon but whatever floats their boats and gathers their fancy. Whether it's about transient fighter planes in pansexual relationships with attack helos or children murdering each other for food, whatever catches their fancy and they enjoy. There's literally nothing wrong with pandering as long as you're honest about it.
>>13968875
Honor Harrington.
>>13968875
Whatever the fuck they like. I hear that Rwby shit is popular with females. I personally don't like it but thats ok. That shit doesn't have to be for me.
>>13968763
>Why can't anything be FOR men or FOR women.
Plenty of movies and novels are still this. Videogames are getting singled out these days as needing to have broad appeal though.
>>13968890
The funny part is there's all sorts of fiction 'by women for women', and a lot of it boils down to the usual genres, only incredibly infused with feminine things.
Like, holy shit, murder mysteries? Do you want one with talking cats? Antiquing? Baking? Knitting? Garage sales? Amish quilt shops?
>>13968925
>only incredibly infused with feminine things
Try incredibly infused with bishonen.
>>13968925
I'd want a talking cat murder mystery.
>>13968925
This is what I'm talking about. Women deserve more than pink Barbie shit, which is what comes of drawing a dividing line between stories for men and stories for women.
>>13968970
There is a visual novel on the nintendo ds that fits what you want quite nicely
>>13968972
>Women deserve more than pink Barbie shit
I only agree with this when it isn't changing pre existing things.
>>13967736
Really it makes perfect sense i have no idea what you're talking about.
>>13968972
Well you can't argue that some stories appeal to women more than men and some stories appeal to men more than women. There's nothing wrong with either of them and there's nothing wrong with women enjoying more male centric media and men enjoying more female centric media.
But as >>13968978 said, there's no point in altering pre-existing media for the sake of ivory tower residing harpies. Creators should create what they want to create, and if they want to pander to a certain demographic, let them without any negative repercussions.
>>13968972
Women deserves to be in the trash.
>>13968972
No doubt, but that also doesn't mean there isn't a preponderance of girls who love pink Barbie shit. For all the railing done against stereotypes and 'traditional gender roles', women left to their own devices in a marketplace of choice still readily create and consume those exact roles and stereotypes in mass quantities. If they aren't using that same level of drive to create or consume gender neutral stuff for themselves, why must men do it for them?
>>13966237
There is only one woman in Yukikaze that matters and I like it that way.
Critics just hate Japan, its too weird/creepy/problematic. Same as it ever was.
>>13969067
There's at least 4 of them that matter, actually.
Just saying.
>>13969081
I only remember 2 ladies, the writer and Booker's CO. Who were the other 2?
>>13969093
Edith Foss and Yukikaze, duh.
Jackson, Yuki, Cooley and Foss. Those are the four.
>>13969081
Well the only one who functions as a main character is Yukikaze herself.
>Yes I would a SuperSylph
>>13969099
>Those are the four.
And her?
>>13969126
The other girls are still very important secondary characters to the overall story.
>>13969126
>would a SuperSylph
>posts Mave
Come on Anon
>>13968972
No one deserves anything
>>13969067
Yukikaze is a slut
>>13968972
They'd get more than pink Barbie shit if they actually bought more than pink Barbie shit. It's not their fault corporations cater to what their demographic buys.
>>13966237
The thing is, I've read some Jap scifi. Sometimes it's good, but a lot of times it's really dry and boring. Which does LOGH fall under?
>>13969278
This, precisely. Heck, for all the angst and protesting and twitter campaigns to get more diversity in Barbie dolls or Black Widow action figures, who was one of the top-selling dolls the past couple years? A blonde-haired, blue-eyed chick named Elsa.
Where's the campaign for more diversity in Frozen?
>>13966856
>>13966910
>liberals ruin everything baaaaaaaaaaaw!
Good god.
Maybe the review is actually right.
What makes you think that Japan has good sci fi in the first place?
If you remember, Battleship Yamato was nothing but nationalistic crap and the rest that followed were gimmicks and recreations of better western sci fi.
It's not proggressives who are shitting in your coffee. It's simply your lack of taste for good shit.
LOGH was overrated anyway, and nowhere as good as people made it out to be. I've even seen people claiming it was the best sci fi story ever written. Fucking mad men.
>>13969355
Mattel are actually making fat (well...curvy) Barbies now, along with a petite, tall, black, Asian and so on doll if I recall. No idea how sales are, though I do know the sales are down 20% in the last decade or more prior to this.
>>13969378
Found the butt hurt art school dropout who couldn't make it in scifi writing because of the complexion of his skin and genitalia down below.
Go home white boy and make us a sandwich in the kitchen. ;^)
>>13969393
The hilarious part of this is that they can't possibly fit all the combinations on the average Barbie shelf space and stores aren't going to stock it just to sit around gathering dust, so it's turning into a custom order thing online.
But wait, it gets better! Because you see, as great as representation is, if you give someone else's daughter a plump Barbie, they might just flip the fuck out thinking you're calling their kid fat. So now they have to offer gift sets to hide the fat doll in a set of other shapes, and all THOSE dolls have to be customized too.
>>13967614
Except Roddenberry's morals weren't SJW progressivism of stomping out anyone who disagrees with you, they were about overcoming the demons of our nature and becoming a people and a civilization that could live in harmony with those of different skin color or different ideals.
>>13969412
So it's pretty much dead in the water
>>13969412
There's also a woman making period Barbies, to inform girls about them, including tampons and a set of stickers and calendar. And another making Barbie's with Hijabs.
>>13969446
Curvaceous hijab Barbie is someone's fetish, I'm sure.
>>13969416
That's the thing. Roddenberry could get pretty out there but at least to start, "here's a bridge with a black woman" was pretty cutting edge. And there's that 'first tv interracial kiss' that's always brought up.
Thing is, you can do that nicely with race because it's an external quality. You can have a black woman sit there and be completely normal in her conduct or language. The problem these days is people pushing to have inclusion of traits that aren't so readily visible without just constantly having them lampshade their sex lives or talk in some stereotypical affect.
Ironically, that's Trek's problem in general - it was easier to be futuristic back then too because so much coming tech was relatively predictable or imaginable. These days we're so spoiled by tech -and- sci-fi it's a lot harder to amaze people, let alone predict the next great leap.
>>13968033
>Dune
I suppose now's a bad time to remind that Herbert actually had quite a bit on gender politics and powerful women in those books, huh?
Kind of surprised new /m/ hasn't bitched about that as much, actually.
>>13967538
>>13968846
sounds like the faggot didn't like dune either
>>13969484
Not just a black woman, because let's face it, Uhura was a glorified telephone operator.
Sulu was the real big deal. An Asian actor who didn't speak with a thick stereotypical accent, and even was the helmsman of such a prestigious ship. Every Asian actor in Hollywood wanted to be Sulu.
>>13969416
>Except Roddenberry's morals weren't SJW progressivism of stomping out anyone who disagrees with you,
Except for the number of episodes that effectively amounted to Kirk and co going to other worlds and going "Your culture is ass-backwards! THIS is how you move forward!"
>>13966237
>>13969548
Thinking about it, that opens up an interpretation of the Borg as what happens when you take that sort of YOU SHOULD BE LIKE THIS routine to a dangerous extreme.
>>13968502
>>13968754
>>13968875
>>13968912
>>13968970
>>13968972
>>13969081
>>13969378
Let me guess, you're a 400+ pound a-gender kweer "culture critic" who posts on twitter why characters and stories should be 'localized' into a more diverse way.
>Damn patriarchy, why isn't Reinhard a superfat black tranny?
>>13969568
This thread convinced me to order a copy and recommend it to all my fellow Sci-Fi readers in my Facebook group
>>13969568
>posts from different anons, some disagree with each other
>some actually raise good points
>YOU ALL ARE ONE PERSON AND A SJW
But seriously
Unbroken Arrow when?
>>13969568
I'm sure I speak for most of this board when I say I would totally fap to a fanfiction where Reinhardt is a BBW futa.
>>13969597
You don't speak for me, stop oppressing me with your kinks shitlord!
>>13969597
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEEEE
>>13966237
>with its overwhelmingly male-dominated story and shallow female characters, it's hard to find a place for this series among today
aaaaaaand there it is
everything else was just an exaggeration for the real problem they had with the book
>>13968970
http://www.joegrey.com/
>>13969607
>>13969609
Stop kinkshaming me or I will come to your house and force you to fap to my porn collection
>>13969620
Only if I can force you to fap to my porn first!I am a Char
>>13969619
I've been wanting this my entire life and I didn't even know it
>>13969534
Indeed. Asians were relatively accepted but they were almost always made to speak in broken english. Take Perry Mason - there were a number of asia-centric cases that hinged entirely on some asians from 'the samurai class', dealing with pearls or samurai armor or the like. Takei even had a turn on there.
But there was also a grand total of maybe two black guys the entire run of the show, and one of them was a brief witness to show unequivocally that someone's description was wrong because the real guy was black.
>>13969654
I miss the 80s and Hollywood unapologetically sucking Japan's dick. Now we hardly get a reach around anymore unless it's Keanu or Tom senpai.
>>13969585
Your instant reply only proved how right I was lol. Idgaf about your 'critique', I care about getting all the books in English accuratley, they shouldnt attack it only because it doesn't fit their fragile sensibilities. Everything else besides muh diversity was probably just to add some kind of justification instead of outright saying muh womynz.
>>13969669
Are you trying to say something, or do you just want to make LoGHfags look like dumbfucks?
Because you're doing a stellar job of the latter.
>>13969517
Who cares? He didn't preach, and he wrote well. Until the later books where things got weird and sort of creepy.... not sure what was going on there.
Anyway, not sure how your point related to mine.
>>13968854
Yeah, but that's the kind of crap that's expected out of sci-fi fantasy now. Quick, snappy, not terribly descriptive, etc.
>>13966856
>involve genderless aliens using homosex to stop climate change or w/e the fuck
I think Ursula LeGuin did this in the Dispossed, it's been awhile since I read it but this seems similar.
>>13969586
That's the third and final Yukikaze book, right?
In that instance I think I was waiting for the final book to be out before buying. Still waiting.
>>13969936
Dude it's not like the second book ends on a cliffhanger.
It's rather open ended for sure but not cliffhanger levels of unresolved plot threads.
By the time we get a translation of UA, I'm sure Kanbayashi will have crapped out a fourth book if it isn't concluded already. Hell if I know if there are still stories being serialized, I don't subscribe to moon-magazines.
>>13969949
I didn't even know that much. I'm just sick and tired of translation projects, proposed series, or whatever simply stopping mid stream. So now, I wait.
I'm only buying LotGH's because even if the books crap out, the anime is a faithful enough adaptation that it's still somewhat available.
>>13969957
UA came out in 2009.
The OVA is built off of the two books that as of right now are already translated.
This is the extent to which the Western world has been exposed to the story. None of us really have a clue as to what UA is about, all we know is that it exists.
It is a miracle that we can even look back at the OVA with the same sort of context Japan was able to from the very beginning.
>>13967875
Given that all of the people making cartoons and comics know are drinking that kool-aid, yes.
And I'm a dirty hippie myself.
>>13968846
>That's how most people who write for a living would put it. Most people on /m/ only read subtitles and pulp military sci-fi though.
A lot of people don't watch UC because LOL Tomino speak/it's too confusing.
>>13969067
>Critics just hate Japan, its too weird/creepy/problematic. Same as it ever was.
Just watch out for localisers.
>>13970068
Here's a thought:
What's more inaccurate to the source material, a localization, or a guess translation?
>>13970068
What's EN stand for? As in the game title.
>>13968765
I am going to fucking kill whoever did that
>>13970111
Changes in a guess translation are accidental and not deliberately made, at least. I'm not sure which one's more inaccurate, but a bad localization deserves more hate.
Oh cool it comes in audiobook format too.
I might actually listen to this during my commute.
>>13970128
I think it's an internal code.
I'm guessing though that the actual game in question was Blade & Soul?
I don't even know what's going on in this thread
>>13970153
I believe so.
The FE Fates guy from Treehouse at NOA also tweeted about how happy he was he could rewrite problematic stuff and that he hoped Atlus would do the same.
>>13969669
>I care about getting all the books in English accuratley
So is it an "accurate" translation if the English version reads like a stiff and overly literal translation whereas the Japanese is fluid and intriguing to a native speaker (reader)? Even if you learn Japanese fluently and read the original, will you ever have the same potential to appreciate it as someone who grew up steeped in the literary traditions of the Japanese language?
What kind of lie do you need to be told about the translation to make you feel like you are getting an authentic experience?
>>13970155
We're debating whether or not the new LoGH translation is bad even though nobody here has read it.
>>13970155
We're debating about whether old sci fi is too old and boring and not enough POC.
Also, moon runes.
>>13969412
>But wait, it gets better! Because you see, as great as representation is, if you give someone else's daughter a plump Barbie, they might just flip the fuck out thinking you're calling their kid fat. So now they have to offer gift sets to hide the fat doll in a set of other shapes, and all THOSE dolls have to be customized too.
Holy shit, source?
I love it.
>>13970161
>rewrite problematic stuff
I'm trying to string together the words needed to fully describe how much this mindset offends me, but I'm finding it too difficult.
But that's censorship, and now I'm miffed because I hoped Fates wouldn't be dragged down by white male shame and the need to erect the Fort Knox of self-reaffirming hugboxes.
Reminder that the main character of Starship Troopers is a Philipino.
>>13970183
It's a cult mentality. Everything that is outside of the group is bad and you need to discard it. I don't know why more people don't see this.
>>13970228
Like I said, the Fort Knox of self-reaffirming hugboxes.
This is like people who get their news solely from FNC/MSNBC.
>>13970183
>Fates
What?
>>13968972
Women should cross over to things that interest them if it interests them. It shouldn't be necessary to pander to them because in the end you're just creating pink Barbie shit with a fresh coat of gray paint.
>>13970162
>steeped in the literary traditions of the Japanese language?
Found art school drop out Anon-kun again. It's clear to me you don't know the first thing about the Japanese language and you're bullshitting yourself into thinking you know anything about the English language.
Go read your beat up copy of Slaughterhouse-Five and wank it to some Bon Iver while we discuss lolis and spaceships like the sophisticated /m/en that we are.
>>13969127
Cheeky, buddy. Still alive?
>>13969619
This is exactly what I wanted.
>>13966237
I think the "not enough women" point is BS, of course, but I can kind of understand complaints about the translation. When I was reading the preview we posted a while back I thought some of Huddleston's phrasing and word choice was a little awkward. I suppose I'll have to see when I actually get my hands on the book, but still, from what I read it wasn't enough of a problem to really ruin the whole thing.
>>13969568
take your unfunny memes and conspiracies back to /pol/
>>13969218
She is, but that's irrelevant to that novel.
>>13969654
>Asians were relatively accepted
Uhhh...did you forget about Breakfast at Tiffany's? They had a long way to go.
>>13970907
Relatively. More than blacks were anyway.
>>13970907
Mr. Yunioshi is so over the top racist that it's hilarious.
Shame that Mickey Rooney just wanted to make people laugh, he was heartbroken when hearing the criticism.
>>13969915
>Until the later books where things got weird and sort of creepy
To be fair one of the main antagonists in the original book banged young boys.
>>13970936
Well, having your villain be a pedo is an easy way to get the audience to hate him, so it makes sense. But I have no idea what Herbert was going for when he hadthe giant sandworm God-Emperor of the galaxy complain about how his life sucked because he had no penis with which to consummate his marriage with the waifu tailor-made for him by people who wanted to assassinate him.
>>13970936
Well yeah, ANtagonist. Later on, if I recall, there were some PROtagonists doing stuff like that.
>>13970879
I don't mean to sound like I'm playing devils advocate or making excuses, but what if the original was awkwardly written too? Do we have any idea on that or not?
>>13969530
Most people in general have never even read Dune.
Hell there's probably more people that's seen the movie than read the books. Which while I think it's a fantastic film that's great at sucking you in and getting you interested in the world, Lynch changed shit for the sake of changing it and you basically have to treat the book and movie as separate entities.
>>13970951
It's hard to tell. I can't really read Japanese either, but from what people have told me about the original Japanese novels, they were competently written, not much worse (or better) than most of the genre. It's what I've read of the translation that makes me think the translator fell into some of the...not errors, necessarily, but clunky phrasing that bedevils a lot of translations. He tends to arrange clauses in a sort of stilted way, which more closely approximates what the original Japanese word order probably was but doesn't sound very good in English. For instance, some of the lines from this excerpt:
http://io9.gizmodo.com/first-look-inside-japans-epic-scifi-book-series-legend-1761936181
could probably be rearranged. Again, I don't know Japanese, but I might personally render a sentence like
>With a lag of half an instant, Patroklos’ body was jostled by an explosive burst of energy, then tossed and turned in every direction.
As
"After a half-instant of lag, an explosive burst of energy shook the body of the Patroklos, tossing and turning it in every direction."
Both say the same thing, but I avoided the passive voice, and utilized a hypen compound to shave away a couple of prepositions for easier reading. Granted, some might disagree, but I think little things like that are what separates a merely accurate translation from a translation that's both accurate and smooth-sounding.
>>13967853
>comparing something that actually has huge historical merit to a nice novel series
It's probably just that readers, especially critics, get tired of reading the same kind of dynamic over and over. You gotta admit that certain things in the show seemed a bit weird now, which makes sense since the future people thought would happen is way, way different than what did.
Audible finally has sample up at www.audible.com/pd/Sci-Fi-Fantasy/Dawn-Audiobook/B01BPHDCCE
>>13971398
Oh, nice. I just got a email from amazon.com too, said my book should be arriving tomorrow. Can't wait~
>>13971398
>Kerkeyes
Pronunciations and voices seem passable. Was hopin for a buy cheaper with Kindle edition deal to get all 3 but doesn't look like it. Will just use a credit. Now just to decide if I read first or just go with the audio
>>13968897
Nigga you best not be trying to say Honor Harrington is good. One of the last books literally has a whole chapter copypasted word for fucking word from the previous book.
>>13971009
>As"After a half-instant of lag, an explosive burst of energy shook the body of the Patroklos, tossing and turning it in every direction."Both say the same thing, but I avoided the passive voice, and utilized a hypen compound to shave away a couple of prepositions for easier reading. Granted, some might disagree, but I think little things like that are what separates a merely accurate translation from a translation that's both accurate and smooth-sounding.
The original phrase "With a lag of half an instant, Patroklos’ body was jostled by an explosive burst of energy, then tossed and turned in every direction" seems to me to be quite smooth.
I think the problem is most american books are written for a 10 year old audience. Hence the short phrases, easy going grammatical construction and limited vocabulary. You people are not used anymore to reading real literary English. More's the pity, but to insult the translator because he didn't cheapen his work is stupid. And it reflects badly on the guy who did the review. English is a beautiful language, very versatile and there is no need to cheapen it out.
If that makes it more diffult for audience to read whay can I say read more. Read real books.
>>13971480
Fair enough, but it also depends on what you're translating. A more abstruse, literary style can work very well, but I'd say that's more suited for things like period pieces. As it happens, Mr. Huddleston has actually translated something like that (his amazon.com page says he translated a group of short stories set in the Edo period). For a scifi novel that has a lot of battles, though, I'd say a 'pulpier' writing (and thus translation) style has its merits, in order to keep the impact of the action scenes and make the combat as exciting as possible. And even though it's a historical/strategic type of novel, LoGH has plenty of battle scenes.
Still, we'll see how the whole book reads. And also, this is Huddleston's first space opera translation, his only other scifi work is "Virus" which was set on Earth. So I would wager this book might be a little rough around the edges, but that Huddleston's translation will improve (in terms of how it sounds/how smooth it is) as he continues to immerse himself in the setting, gets a better handle on each character's voice, and generally gets more used to everything. So we have to buy the books to ensure more of them get released!
>>13969162
Yeah sorry I only read the book.
Have the anime on my laptop will watch it this month.
No one bought the ebook yet?
>>13971760
I bought it, but I didn't see any reason to post about it. I'm hardly the best judge of literary style anyway.
>>13967637
Due to the direction I think both of those shows are not hard to follow
There is a definite language barrier there, however, I'm 99% sure Tomino dialog being impossible to localize is an actual thing
The world isn't square, you know.
>>13969378
Look I am not some weeaboo (is that how it is spelled?) who thinks everything in Japan is better. However Japan does have some good books, anime, videogames and movies.
Is LotGH the best ever? No. But it is a fine space opera.
I try not to limit myself and read/watch/play good stories no matter what country they came from.
>>13969534
Remember that Star Trek wad made in the sixties, a lot of people remembered WW2.
Sulu and Checkov were really progressive in a good way.
>>13966237
>Tanaka's nearly 35-year-old plot has aged rather poorly; with its overwhelmingly male-dominated story and shallow female characters
How to lose all credibility in one line.
First actual review on Amazon. Took the translation part of it
>>13971773
The dialogue being obtuse has nothing to do with language barriers. Tomino just likes having really stupid dialogue, that's all.
>>13971806
Books don't age. Ever.
Fuck 500 years from now some kid checks out these books from the Space Confederacy's digital library.
>>13967342
Yeah but you gotta plan for that kinda thing, it usually doesn't taste good if it just happens accidentally. LOGH just didn't have a way to do it back then, I mean fuck look at the sci-fi shit that aired along side it, no one else was doing any better.
>>13967853
Yeah but when Japan did it, the girls were fucking hot except Diaochan in Koihime. Ikkitousen was pretty much a commercial for school uniforms. We just have to not allow the west to get their hands on it like what >>13968655 says.
>>13968663
Yeah they'd be pushing for transherm Indians and everybody would sing songs about how Guan Yu was black.
>WE WUZ WAR GAWDZ N SHIT
>>13967538
>Given the shitty quality of most officially translated works of lesser known Japanese works, I'm not surprised.
You say that like well known Japanese works are translated properly. I mean aside from old school stuff like Musashi's novel and all that jazz which you know were done back when translators were actually qualified and professional, we now have politically correct faggots that just finished learning Kana being hired for peanuts by Yen Press and friends.
>>13971771
I was curious about the translation after reading this thread. I preordered it but I have to wait until 24 or so to receive it.
>>13971773
>I'm 99% sure Tomino dialog being impossible to localize is an actual thing
i wonder how the japanese think of tomino speak?
>>13971843
I forget who, but I read a comparison here that compared normal moondialog to playing catch and tomino dialog to playing dodgeball
>>13968765
>Doesn't count, that's just plain capitalism.
shut up commie
>>13968655
Reminds about that recent show about King Arthur where they took Lancelot's title as the Black Knight pretty literally.
>>13967875
yep this is the second the dark age
>>13967652
hello eclipse
>>13971837
Yeah old Japanese LITERATURE was done by actual professors from Cambridge and Yale. People who cared about Japan. They weren't just doing it for money.
The translations for entertainment are usually bad.
>>13970932
>Mr. Yunioshi is so over the top racist that it's hilarious.
i can't believe anyone white man wants him to be a landowner
>>13969665
>I miss the 80s and Hollywood unapologetically sucking Japan's dick
they got to suck china's dick now
>>13970221
>Philipino
>not filipino
>>13968993
>let them without any negative repercussions.
My ass, I bet 90% of this board would rage out at the mention of Twilight getting giant robots.
>>13971934
People who love actual vampire lore are already in rage with this. No need to add giant robots.
>>13970228
> We won't be getting DOAX3
Does anyone actually give a shit?
>>13966237
Can we fire every single tenured college professor who kept teaching political correctness after it died the first time? It is a bullshit philosophy that does more harm than good, helps no one, and was already rejected. Why the fuck did they bring it back?
>>13971942
I honestly didn't know those games were still being made.
>>13971946
I bought the second one out of a bargain bin years ago for the 360, them threw it in a drawer after one play and never thought of it again. Way too much hassle for no reward. I wouldn't buy a new one even at bargain prices, the main DOA games are still good though. As is Ninja Garden II (I think it was that one at least).
>>13971926
He is an ethnic Philip. Don't be confused, they are different.
>>13971825
Yes they do.
>>13971938
I'm just saying man, nobody is THAT mature. Not even Jesus or Gandhi.
>>13971934
I said should, obviously we'll shitpost about it here. But I wouldn't count that as a negative repercussion, unless someone really cares what a bunch of autists on a bavarian clog enthusiast board says about their product.
>>13971942
My wife did, DOA is her favorite fighting game series and she loves games where she can collect outfits and customize characters. So she cared a little bit, but not that much.
>>13971968
There's also a III.
>>13971398
Am I the only person who doesn't hear shit when I play it?
>>13970183
Serene's forest is working on a project to delocalize the NA version and restore all f the cut content
>>13972121
Eh I dunno if I really care anymore.
The only way they could salvage it is if someone can get IntSys to circumvent Nintendo and do an uncut edition release of some sort.
That or I'll just wait eons for Gamestop to try and get rid of surplus copies of the special edition at a major discount.
I mean seriously, if the American localization front wants to seriously play this game of diversity and memery, the least they could do is campaign for Code Name STEAM 2, the original was able to work with that sort of attitude in an embracement of camp, diversity, and Western literature.
>>13968075
Some stores are already shipping the book out. I got my copy on Thursday and I live in a country less important than Buttfuckistan, so I'd imagine folks in America could have got it even earlier.
>>13972211
America is a big country. Amazon shipping in the US is actually slower than standard mail in my country.
I get next day delivery for free at any Dutch webstore (until 11pm).
>>13971480
>The original phrase "With a lag of half an instant, Patroklos’ body was jostled by an explosive burst of energy, then tossed and turned in every direction" seems to me to be quite smooth.
That's because you're quite possibly an ESL tard who isn't up to date with modern prose.
Case in point,
>You people are not used anymore to reading real literary English
This is an ESL sentence structure if I've ever read one.
>>13972260
But anon. I don't see what by that you mean.
Are you perhaps saying the structure of my sentences is strange?
>>13972295
A native speaker would have opted for something like
>You people are no longer used to reading real literary English.
Or even
>People such as yourself, numbed by years of poorly phrased fansubs and middle-schooler literature that has arrived in English by way of Chinese and Google Translate, have lost all capacity to peruse and appreciate true literary English.
>>13972309
I know, that was a joke. I was thinking of opting for sentencing instead of sentence, but I figured it was obvious already.
>>13972121
I'm really excited for this. I got the butchered NA SE as a late Christmas gift. I don't even want to unwrap it in its present stare..
>>13971865
You mean that awful Martin Lawrence movie?
>>13972462
Looks kino.
>>13972462
Nah. I mean this.
I still haven't gotten it yet ;_; I was mad before I checked the calendar and saw that today was the 8th, not the 9th. I can't waaaaaait ;-;
>>13972474
Kinda puts a whole different spin on Lancelot cucking Arthur, now don't it?
>>13972496
Nah, people have told me that in this show Arthur deserves it because he beat Guinevere and shit.
Making Lancelot a dindu nuffin.
>>13972474
>>13972496
Why don't they ever make a movie or show about Yasuke? He was not only the only black samurai but one of the few foreigners who even got to be one and was highly respected by Nobunaga.
>>13972509
Now that I think about it, nobody has done a movie about Yasuke to my knowledge. He's not even featured in Sengoku Basara.
>>13972509
>Why don't they ever make a movie about John Brown?
Some things are conveniently swept under the rug anon because they are too controversial.
>>13971825
>Books don't age. Ever.
Oh yeah, then why do they turn to dust when they're really old?
>>13972581
Books are vampires. The ones that turn into dust were staked.
>>13972562
Now take into account that hemay or may not have actually been the Queen of Hearts in disguise the entire time.
>>13970228
>with industry connections to play-asia
The company that's located in Hong Kong, the capital of piracy and rampant "don't give a fuck as long as we profit"? No one can touch them unless the mainland decides to fully take over.
>>13972561
>>13972562
Not true, Yasuke is usually a character in live-action sengoku era dramas. And he's generally respected because of how the writing about the guy talked about him.
>>13972561
Yasuke's in Nobunaga Concerto, though that version of him is a baseball player sent back in time. That's the only recent portrayal of the character I can recall.
>>13971942
There was a huge shitstorm over it for awhile. Also caused /v/ to post even more twitter gossip threads making it even harder to find the few actual video game discussions there.
>>13966283
>>13966237
Seriously though, whatshisname's widow just pops out of nowhere in the book and dies like two pages after, while in the OVA they turned her into a real character and made proper use of her.
People have been going on about the books for ages only because they haven't been available in English up till now. Fact is the books aren't all that popular compared to the OVA in Japan either, for the simple reason that they aren't as good. The OVA pads out a lot of stuff, cuts out unneeded fluff, and simply does things better.
>>13972634
Whoah, Jessica wasn't a big character in the books? Dang. Well, it certainly will be interesting to see what changed between the books and the anime.
>>13972627
Also, the game has its menus and stuff in English, right? I guess it's annoying having to import it, but that's the only thing the "SJWs" managed to do, as far as I know.
>>13972260
> ESL
What does ESL even stand for? East South...London?
>>13972738
English as a Second Language, aka non-native speakers.
